Full Counter usable after landing F1

[Smety.5379]

Make full counter usable for 5-10 seconds after landing your F1 burst skill. I am not sure now how would that affect adrenaline management, just wanted to give this idea for discussion. This would make FC less spammable. As a spellbreaker my self, I think FC spamming is just stupid and this nerf would not be really devastating for SB.

[Crossaber.8934]

Did you mean unusable for a period after a burst skill?

 

I think it is a punishment to all good and bad spellbreaker, it is not a punishment to FC spamming. To punish FC spamming, the best way is to keep the CD for triggered FC, but increase CD to 15sec(12sec) for non triggered FC. This way smart player can outplay a FC spamming spellbreaker by not trigger his FC and gain a larger window to lay his burst to the spellbreaker.

[Smety.5379]

No, what i meant was that you have to land F1 skill first to "unlock" usage of fullcounter. This way FC could be used only in return of more aggressive and precise gameplay and wouldn't be just a nobrain skill. But i also do agree with your idea of increased cd if the FC does not get triggered.

[Elegie.3620]

I don't mind increasing the CD to reduce the spammability, as long as we get back 3 bars of adrenaline. Currently, traits scaling with adrenaline, which offer stacks (Berserker's Power, Adrenal Health) require hitting F1/F2 frequently enough to maintain the stacks, as one cannot accumulate more than one stack at a time - and traits not having stacks (Cleansing Ire, Burst Mastery) have had their value decreased already, by a lot. Increasing the F2 CD without increasing the adrenaline storage would reduce even more the value of those traits - thus IMHO nerfing the spellbreaker more than it deserves.

[kiranslee.4829]

meh just meh :/

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

There should be no punish before using the skill, we already have to build up the adrenaline to unlock it, no need to put it behind a second wall.

We should be punishing for misuse of the skill, or rewarding players who do not set the skill off. A longer cool down, self daze, or something for using the skill without it being triggered would be ok.

It would exile spellbreaker from PvE even more, but .... thems the breaks.... unfortunately.... BUFF POWER WA....

[Saraneth.6021]

> @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> We should be punishing for misuse of the skill, or rewarding players who do not set the skill off. A longer cool down, self daze, or something for using the skill without it being triggered would be ok.

 

I'm fine with that if the triple the duration of it.

 

[Lalainnia.3598]

> @Elegie.3620 said:

> I don't mind increasing the CD to reduce the spammability, as long as we get back 3 bars of adrenaline. Currently, traits scaling with adrenaline, which offer stacks (Berserker's Power, Adrenal Health) require hitting F1/F2 frequently enough to maintain the stacks, as one cannot accumulate more than one stack at a time - and traits not having stacks (Cleansing Ire, Burst Mastery) have had their value decreased already, by a lot. Increasing the F2 CD without increasing the adrenaline storage would reduce even more the value of those traits - thus IMHO nerfing the spellbreaker more than it deserves.

 

Huh? Isn't full counter a Burst skill? that plus a normal burst skill is 2 stacks and then theirs Attackers Insight which refreshes all burst skills if full counter connects plus any warrior running cleansing ire, the discipline traitline or even signet of rage should have no issues with gaining adrenaline???? Adrenal Health and Berserk power if you opt to take that anyway both last for 15 secs.

[Elegie.3620]

> @Lalainnia.3598 said:

> Huh? Isn't full counter a Burst skill? that plus a normal burst skill is 2 stacks and then theirs Attackers Insight which refreshes all burst skills if full counter connects plus any warrior running cleansing ire, the discipline traitline or even signet of rage should have no issues with gaining adrenaline???? Adrenal Health and Berserk power if you opt to take that anyway both last for 15 secs.

 

Yes, Full Counter is a burst skill. The point, however, is not to generate adrenaline, but to manage to hit 3 bursts successfully, frequently enough to maintain your stacks (any missed burst or counter spends the adrenaline without triggering the traits, except for Longbow F1). Each spellbreaker burst is worth 1 bar, while core warrior bursts can be worth 1-3 bars, so it's more flexible . If you increase the CD of Full Counter, then you degrade even more the value of all burst-based traits. That's the class mechanics, after all.

 

Of course, if you face an enemy that eats all your F1 and F2, then that's just a matter of spamming. But, while most players in PvP don't have any class knowledge (and thus are not aware of basic counter tactics), there are still knowledgeable players out there, that try to read and direct their opponents. Killing a warrior is a well-known process of baiting and kiting, denying bursts and wasting stances.

[Crossaber.8934]

I dont mind FC without being triggered goes to a punishing CD, this provide counterplay to FC spam and reward smart player that able to avoid trigger a FC.

 

FC spam spellbreaker are the worst warrior players, the one who kept triggering the spamming FC are even worst. I now always stay away from a foe spellbreaker if i found my teammates keep hitting and eating FC.

[cryorion.9532]

> @Crossaber.8934 said:

> FC spam spellbreaker are the worst warrior players, the one who kept triggering the spamming FC are even worst. I now always stay away from a foe spellbreaker if i found my teammates keep hitting and eating FC.

 

So? Full Counter is the center of SB mechanics. And it is very effective against aoe spam and people spamming their skills. That does not say if the SB is bad or not...

Not saying that FC is balanced or anything, but it is the only SB skill that gives warrior an advantage.

 

Also, I like the idea of 3 adrenaline bars being available to SB and FC being available only at level 3 adrenaline. But even then, dagger skills need damage buffs. I don't mind FC damage nerfs but buff damn daggers, please. Especially autoattack.

[Crossaber.8934]

> @cryorion.9532 said:

> > @Crossaber.8934 said:

> > FC spam spellbreaker are the worst warrior players, the one who kept triggering the spamming FC are even worst. I now always stay away from a foe spellbreaker if i found my teammates keep hitting and eating FC.

>

> So? Full Counter is the center of SB mechanics. And it is very effective against aoe spam and people spamming their skills. That does not say if the SB is bad or not...

> Not saying that FC is balanced or anything, but it is the only SB skill that gives warrior an advantage.

>

> Also, I like the idea of 3 adrenaline bars being available to SB and FC being available only at level 3 adrenaline. But even then, dagger skills need damage buffs. I don't mind FC damage nerfs but buff kitten daggers, please. Especially autoattack.

 

Doing FC in aoe I don’t think it as spam FC, spamming FC is using FC as long as it is ready and wish someone will trigger it. Yes i have seen and fight good and bad spellbreaker. It is a fact that as you fight one you can tell whether it is a skilled or unskilled spellbreaker.

 

I have swapped out all my FC related trait as a spellbreaker main and i am doing much better than what i was in wvw roaming and pvp.

 

I rather FC got increased CD if it is not being triggered to punish FC spam, rather than nerfing a core mechanics of spellbreaker.

[Hitman.5829]

> @Smety.5379 said:

> Make full counter usable for 5-10 seconds after landing your F1 burst skill. I am not sure now how would that affect adrenaline management, just wanted to give this idea for discussion. This would make FC less spammable. As a spellbreaker my self, I think FC spamming is just stupid and this nerf would not be really devastating for SB.

 

Warrior has finally become viable in WvW and people want it nerfed? Full counter is needed and perfectly fine as it is to counter the amount of condition spam that the front line experiences. You claim to be a spell breaker, but have you played warrior during all these 5 years? If you have played warrior all these 5 years then you know the bad spot the warrior was before PoF. Before PoF, in WvW you would see nothing but thieves, necros, mesmers, rangers. Now, you see diversity and even then warriors don't make the top 5 most played classes in WvW.

 

Top classes in WvW:

1.- Necro

2.- Thief

3.- Ranger

4.- Guard

5.- Mesmer

6.- Revenant

7.- Warrior

8. Elementalist

9. Engineer

 

The PoF expansion put warrior in an OK position. The reason noobs complain warrior is too OP is because they have never fought a warrior in their entire life because they were absent.

[Lalainnia.3598]

So after reading a lot and fighting a lot of spellbreakers I think the main 2 issues ppl have with FC is that it's aoe and triggers on to ppl that aren't attacking them and the condi copy amount of 5 on revenge counter. Those are the main things that seem to be driving ppl nuts.

 

Personally I would reduce the condi copy to 3 condis and not have revenge counter copy condis as aoe and only on the targeted foe. Would also remove the aoe daze portion of full counter and have it only affect the targeted foe. That way players that can read the tells for warriors don't get punished with random condis and a daze but warrior's still get to apply the aoe damage from full counter and revenge counter while still getting the benefit of the condi copy and daze on the foe they have selected.

[Hitman.5829]

> @Lalainnia.3598 said:

> So after reading a lot and fighting a lot of spellbreakers I think the main 2 issues ppl have with FC is that it's aoe and triggers on to ppl that aren't person isn't attacking them and the condi copy amount of 5 on revenge counter. Those are the main things that seem to be driving ppl nuts.

>

> Personally I would reduce the condi copy to 3 condis and not have revenge counter copy condis as aoe and only on the targeted foe. Would also remove the aoe daze portion of full counter and have it only affect the targeted foe. That way players that can read the tells for warriors don't get punished with random condis and a daze but warrior's still get to apply the aoe damage from full counter and revenge counter while still getting the benefit of the condi copy and daze on the foe they have selected.

 

Nop, the condi copy of 5 is perfect and its a punishment for those that spam conditions. If you don't want to get conditions on you don't spam them on me! It is a perfect skill to prevent condition spamming!

 

You can even argue that its a double edge sword! Necro can return them to you for double the damage so, fair play!

[Henry.5713]

This change would negate the entire point of even having a defensive adrenalin skill. To turn it into nothing more than another defensive passive that triggers whenever you land a hit with the additional handicap of actually needing someone to attack you afterwards.

 

Most good players have already gotten used to dealing with FC in duels or in small fights. It is as simple as stowing weapons if you are by yourself and waiting for others to trigger FC when you are not. I focus on avoiding FC and ripping resistance or stability whenever I am on spellbreaker myself. That is usually enough to kill most enemy spellbreakers when they are hit by multiple people but I hardly ever feel this from opposing spellbreakers when I am solo.

We can talk about small nerfs but I don't feel like harsh punishing mechanics or big cuts in functionality are required in any way. It is actually refreshing to be able to punish others for jumping you together like, I apologize, idiots.

[Elegie.3620]

If I really were to nerf it, I'd go with a range decrease (say 300 to 240) . I would also consider triggering the burst traits only when the riposte hits successfully, rather than the block (not sure if this is not the case however, haven't tested).

 

In the meanwhile, there are things I'd buff too... At the very least, some damage/might on dagger #1 and aftercast reduction on dagger #2. In general, feedback has already been provided during beta week-end, and hasn't changed since then. It's still relevant.

[Juba.8406]

> @Elegie.3620 said:

> If I really were to nerf it, I'd go with a range decrease (say 300 to 240) .

 

Warrior already sucks at AoE attacks and target tagging ability, the last thing we need is reducing AoE skills range which are already few and bad.

 

======

 

Full Counter = Spellbreaker

 

We have to agree that Anet made spellbreaker so dependent on Full counter on just 1 skill, you nerf FC you nerf SB as whole, There is no way around FC.

 

Too much FC nerf and the entire Spellbreaker is dead.

 

IMO FC just needs another small damage shave.

 

[Choppy.4183]

> @Juba.8406 said:

> IMO FC just needs another small damage shave.

 

Another one? The damage already took a substantial hit the last time around. I'm not saying that was wrong, but I haven't found the damage particularly OP, assuming I take it at all.

 

[Poelala.2830]

This destroys the functionality of full counter. In my mind, full counter is basically a burst skill for shield if it were a mainhand weapon. In a lot of cases, the difference between a good and a bad spellbreaker is his ability to react defensively with full counter at optimal times. Restricting this functionality makes its intended purpose absolutely useless.

[Ragnarox.9601]

Full counter should be without unblockable and stability, plus they need to nerf resistance on warrior, or full counter increase cd to 15 sec = balance.

[Choppy.4183]

> @Ragnarox.9601 said:

> Full counter should be without unblockable and stability, plus they need to nerf resistance on warrior, or full counter increase cd to 15 sec = balance.

 

You've been crutching on your Guardian blocks too much clearly. Spellbreaker is a pretty clear counter to a style of DH play that was, ironically, somewhat of a counter to power warriors.

 

You'll have to switch up your playstyle.

[Malicious.3716]

> @Elegie.3620 said:

> I don't mind increasing the CD to reduce the spammability, as long as we get back 3 bars of adrenaline. Currently, traits scaling with adrenaline, which offer stacks (Berserker's Power, Adrenal Health) require hitting F1/F2 frequently enough to maintain the stacks, as one cannot accumulate more than one stack at a time - and traits not having stacks (Cleansing Ire, Burst Mastery) have had their value decreased already, by a lot. Increasing the F2 CD without increasing the adrenaline storage would reduce even more the value of those traits - thus IMHO nerfing the spellbreaker more than it deserves.

 

Agreed. 3 bars on a spellbreaker increases it's viability in pve.

[Mikeskies.1536]

> @Choppy.4183 said:

> > @Juba.8406 said:

> > IMO FC just needs another small damage shave.

>

> Another one? The damage already took a substantial hit the last time around. I'm not saying that was wrong, but I haven't found the damage particularly OP, assuming I take it at all.

>

 

It needs a slight radius reduction, not damage shave. Right now, Full Counter hits you beyond the 300 unit radius listed by just a tad.

[Vambrace.8675]

The answer is to do nothing and move away...

 

With the amount of mobility in this game stick and move is a very viable tactic, use it and profit.

 

Spellbreakers are no big deal. It's up to you if you want an FC in the face even in a group fight... just dont run around swing your weapons in the air... step back and wait just a couple seconds for your opportunity... thats it.