[Reminder] Firebrand is broken

[Morwath.9817]

I would rather see Rev playing GW2 on his tablet, Tempest, Shoutbow, Druid, *insert supportive spec* on FB level rather than nerfing this one into the ground...

[R E F L H E X.8413]

> @Morwath.9817 said:

> I would rather see Rev playing GW2 on his tablet, Tempest, Shoutbow, Druid, *insert supportive spec* on FB level rather than nerfing this one into the ground...

 

 

[Saiyan.1704]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> Firebrand not OK. It makes tempest support look completely sub-par. Shave Firebrand until it's on the same level as Tempest, then this magical thing called diversity will appear. Firebrand does everything Tempest can (besides Auras) and then some, with Aegis, Resistance, increased condition clear, increased healing taken from all sources buff (their personal healing etc.) and by far the biggest contributor to team success, stability for all in high volume. Firebrand personal survivability is not worse than tempest... I'd argue it's slightly better and doesn't rely on Invuln to decap itself.

>

> If you've played any high tier ranked or AT's, monthly's, the perspective I'm coming from is pretty reinforced.

 

Same level as tempest? No, I don't want [support] Firebrand nerfed down to the "unplayable" title.

 

Bring a necro (corrupt boon's) and a Power thief, FB support dies in 10s.

[Felipe.1807]

Firebrand is pretty strong, but not broken...they are really strong against condi builds, strong enough to allmost neutralize then, but they are really weak against power based builds, literally any power build can destroy a Firebrand in a mattter of seconds...add the zero mobility and damage i would say they are pretty balanced...the tomes are really strong, F3 is insane with stab spam and the projectile reflect, but the tomes dont use ammo system, so everything about then is very situational...if the nerfhammer hits they will have to give some buffs somewhere else, or even better, nerf other professions too.

[Morwath.9817]

> @kKagari.6804 said:

> > @FOX.3582 said:

> > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > @Sismis.5390 said:

> > > > Look its clear what the comrade mentioned up there thief and mesmer can counter it.BUT lets not forget thx to very few skilled of them 90% of the games it will not happen.Players aren't that good lately have seen in matches.Thanks to that MM cant prevent class stacking still probelm!!And other 1000 issues we going to have and have.So we will have matches where we just get steamrolled in this Aoe Spamm festival.People will continue to experience awful match-ups and games what will lead to frustration and drive more people away. Currently its happening and will continue another problem why it will create more complains on forum and strange suggestion while we cant have proper match up.Cause its right now just a steamroll on the 1 way down for one side.

> > >

> > > Game shouldn't be balanced based on lowest common denominator skill levels. Thief has the tools to easily counter firebrands, it is simply a L2P issue if certain thieves can't do it.

> >

> > Balancing this game around three high skilled players instead of the majority of the playerbase for the sake of EEEESPUURTZZZ is what made PvP in this game a giant shhaat fest in the first place. You should work at Anet, you’ll fit right in! :)

>

> Why should everyone be playing the game at the level of people incapable or unwilling to improve? It's because of nonsense arguments like this that the game is where it is now; you make everything with care bear levels of execution just so "the majority" can do it and you're left with a game with no depth and no means of skill differentiation.

>

> You should work on education reforms and hand participation awards. Oh wait..

 

Are you telling me that LOL and DOTA2 are games with no depth and no means of skill differentiation? Because GW2 is far more complex than any of them, even on potato level of gameplay.

[musu.9205]

 

> @kKagari.6804 said:

> > @FOX.3582 said:

> > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > @Sismis.5390 said:

> > > > Look its clear what the comrade mentioned up there thief and mesmer can counter it.BUT lets not forget thx to very few skilled of them 90% of the games it will not happen.Players aren't that good lately have seen in matches.Thanks to that MM cant prevent class stacking still probelm!!And other 1000 issues we going to have and have.So we will have matches where we just get steamrolled in this Aoe Spamm festival.People will continue to experience awful match-ups and games what will lead to frustration and drive more people away. Currently its happening and will continue another problem why it will create more complains on forum and strange suggestion while we cant have proper match up.Cause its right now just a steamroll on the 1 way down for one side.

> > >

> > > Game shouldn't be balanced based on lowest common denominator skill levels. Thief has the tools to easily counter firebrands, it is simply a L2P issue if certain thieves can't do it.

> >

> > Balancing this game around three high skilled players instead of the majority of the playerbase for the sake of EEEESPUURTZZZ is what made PvP in this game a giant shhaat fest in the first place. You should work at Anet, you’ll fit right in! :)

>

> Why should everyone be playing the game at the level of people incapable or unwilling to improve? It's because of nonsense arguments like this that the game is where it is now; you make everything with care bear levels of execution just so "the majority" can do it and you're left with a game with no depth and no means of skill differentiation.

>

> You should work on education reforms and hand participation awards. Oh wait..

 

well , in this case , some top players in their stream do agree firebrand is too strong . even in this very thread , Chaith directly said FB is not ok . he also gave the reasons and proof why it's not ok .

at least i think we can move away from L2P argument by now .

 

and yeah , when things like firebrand exists , condition builds need high burst to have chance to do something in pvp . but that will make condition builds op against anything that doesn't pack with most condition removal.and general power creep is bad for the game .

 

tempest was strong , it was no where near ground before pof . and only 3 new broken elite made it seems weak.

[Zalarious.9168]

I can't believe they finally make a guardian class actually have TRUE GUARDIAN ABILITIES and people cry nerf. Firebrand has limited condi usage in high level pvp and with all the condi spam going around Firebrand's condi cleanse and healing is needed. It keeps up with the opposing condi meta. No it should NOT be at the same level as tempest, firebrand ...a guardian class...should be the best at what it does...guard from losing health, guard from power damage and guard from condi damage.

[kKagari.6804]

> @Morwath.9817 said:

> > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > @FOX.3582 said:

> > > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > > @Sismis.5390 said:

> > > > > Look its clear what the comrade mentioned up there thief and mesmer can counter it.BUT lets not forget thx to very few skilled of them 90% of the games it will not happen.Players aren't that good lately have seen in matches.Thanks to that MM cant prevent class stacking still probelm!!And other 1000 issues we going to have and have.So we will have matches where we just get steamrolled in this Aoe Spamm festival.People will continue to experience awful match-ups and games what will lead to frustration and drive more people away. Currently its happening and will continue another problem why it will create more complains on forum and strange suggestion while we cant have proper match up.Cause its right now just a steamroll on the 1 way down for one side.

> > > >

> > > > Game shouldn't be balanced based on lowest common denominator skill levels. Thief has the tools to easily counter firebrands, it is simply a L2P issue if certain thieves can't do it.

> > >

> > > Balancing this game around three high skilled players instead of the majority of the playerbase for the sake of EEEESPUURTZZZ is what made PvP in this game a giant shhaat fest in the first place. You should work at Anet, you’ll fit right in! :)

> >

> > Why should everyone be playing the game at the level of people incapable or unwilling to improve? It's because of nonsense arguments like this that the game is where it is now; you make everything with care bear levels of execution just so "the majority" can do it and you're left with a game with no depth and no means of skill differentiation.

> >

> > You should work on education reforms and hand participation awards. Oh wait..

>

> Are you telling me that LOL and DOTA2 are games with no depth and no means of skill differentiation? Because GW2 is far more complex than any of them, even on potato level of gameplay.

 

I can't speak for LoL but i know Dota is primarily balanced at the esports level. The game happens to be low skill level friendly because it is well designed. You don't see riki getting nerfed to oblivion because new players cry about him in every patch iteration. The thing is, most beginners in dota understand the concept of L2P whereas here you have people screaming along the lines of "if i cant do it no one else shoulf be able to either"

[Morwath.9817]

> @kKagari.6804 said:

> > @Morwath.9817 said:

> > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > @FOX.3582 said:

> > > > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > > > @Sismis.5390 said:

> > > > > > Look its clear what the comrade mentioned up there thief and mesmer can counter it.BUT lets not forget thx to very few skilled of them 90% of the games it will not happen.Players aren't that good lately have seen in matches.Thanks to that MM cant prevent class stacking still probelm!!And other 1000 issues we going to have and have.So we will have matches where we just get steamrolled in this Aoe Spamm festival.People will continue to experience awful match-ups and games what will lead to frustration and drive more people away. Currently its happening and will continue another problem why it will create more complains on forum and strange suggestion while we cant have proper match up.Cause its right now just a steamroll on the 1 way down for one side.

> > > > >

> > > > > Game shouldn't be balanced based on lowest common denominator skill levels. Thief has the tools to easily counter firebrands, it is simply a L2P issue if certain thieves can't do it.

> > > >

> > > > Balancing this game around three high skilled players instead of the majority of the playerbase for the sake of EEEESPUURTZZZ is what made PvP in this game a giant shhaat fest in the first place. You should work at Anet, you’ll fit right in! :)

> > >

> > > Why should everyone be playing the game at the level of people incapable or unwilling to improve? It's because of nonsense arguments like this that the game is where it is now; you make everything with care bear levels of execution just so "the majority" can do it and you're left with a game with no depth and no means of skill differentiation.

> > >

> > > You should work on education reforms and hand participation awards. Oh wait..

> >

> > Are you telling me that LOL and DOTA2 are games with no depth and no means of skill differentiation? Because GW2 is far more complex than any of them, even on potato level of gameplay.

>

> I can't speak for LoL but i know Dota is primarily balanced at the esports level. The game happens to be low skill level friendly because it is well designed. You don't see riki getting nerfed to oblivion because new players cry about him in every patch iteration. The thing is, most beginners in dota understand the concept of L2P whereas here you have people screaming along the lines of "if i cant do it no one else shoulf be able to either"

 

Quaggan was talking about complexity.

[Kuya.6495]

I would also prefer to see support tempest, druid and ventari buffed first before seeing fb nerfed but i am biased here.

 

I've been asking for more support build options besides tempest for a while now and now i got what i wanted and on my main class too. If fb got nerfed into low tier, I'd probably just move to mirage which is loads of fun and a better dueler than dh ever was.

[Yamazuki.6073]

> @Zalarious.9168 said:

> I can't believe they finally make a guardian class actually have TRUE GUARDIAN ABILITIES and people cry nerf. Firebrand has limited condi usage in high level pvp and with all the condi spam going around Firebrand's condi cleanse and healing is needed. It keeps up with the opposing condi meta. No it should NOT be at the same level as tempest, firebrand ...a guardian class...should be the best at what it does...guard from losing health, guard from power damage and guard from condi damage.

 

You don't balance a mechanic by making it a requirement to have a specific class on your team or face losing. Dealing with that when Scourge came to exist where the team with the better Scourge duo+supports were going to win was annoying enough. If conditions are a problem in pvp, here's a thought, nerf conditions in pvp. Stop releasing over powered classes or gimmicks to "counter" conditions, because not all condition builds are over bearing in the first place.

 

> @Morwath.9817 said:

> Are you telling me that LOL and DOTA2 are games with no depth and no means of skill differentiation? Because GW2 is far more complex than any of them, even on potato level of gameplay.

 

LoL has quite a few champions/mechanics that are rather useless in the hands of average players. This is why some champions picked in competitive don't always end up popular in non-competitive outside of high tier play, they are guaranteed losses when played in Bronze or Silver. GW2 doesn't offer any data as to what classes, specs, or builds are truly complex though, it's all going to be opinions. LoL on the other hand has data thrown at the community. You can see the win rate curve by experience, game length, items bought, masteries/runes and even champion they played against. Some stuff that people assume increases difficulty simply ends up not being true. I.e. "skill shots"=difficulty is a false statement. Ahri, Lux, etc are skill shot oriented champions, and yet their curve is nearly non-existent, Annie has a steeper curve despite being simpler and no skill shots.

[kKagari.6804]

> @Morwath.9817 said:

> > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > @Morwath.9817 said:

> > > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > > @FOX.3582 said:

> > > > > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > > > > @Sismis.5390 said:

> > > > > > > Look its clear what the comrade mentioned up there thief and mesmer can counter it.BUT lets not forget thx to very few skilled of them 90% of the games it will not happen.Players aren't that good lately have seen in matches.Thanks to that MM cant prevent class stacking still probelm!!And other 1000 issues we going to have and have.So we will have matches where we just get steamrolled in this Aoe Spamm festival.People will continue to experience awful match-ups and games what will lead to frustration and drive more people away. Currently its happening and will continue another problem why it will create more complains on forum and strange suggestion while we cant have proper match up.Cause its right now just a steamroll on the 1 way down for one side.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Game shouldn't be balanced based on lowest common denominator skill levels. Thief has the tools to easily counter firebrands, it is simply a L2P issue if certain thieves can't do it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Balancing this game around three high skilled players instead of the majority of the playerbase for the sake of EEEESPUURTZZZ is what made PvP in this game a giant shhaat fest in the first place. You should work at Anet, you’ll fit right in! :)

> > > >

> > > > Why should everyone be playing the game at the level of people incapable or unwilling to improve? It's because of nonsense arguments like this that the game is where it is now; you make everything with care bear levels of execution just so "the majority" can do it and you're left with a game with no depth and no means of skill differentiation.

> > > >

> > > > You should work on education reforms and hand participation awards. Oh wait..

> > >

> > > Are you telling me that LOL and DOTA2 are games with no depth and no means of skill differentiation? Because GW2 is far more complex than any of them, even on potato level of gameplay.

> >

> > I can't speak for LoL but i know Dota is primarily balanced at the esports level. The game happens to be low skill level friendly because it is well designed. You don't see riki getting nerfed to oblivion because new players cry about him in every patch iteration. The thing is, most beginners in dota understand the concept of L2P whereas here you have people screaming along the lines of "if i cant do it no one else shoulf be able to either"

>

> Quaggan was talking about complexity.

 

I'm not sure GW2 is more complex. Its a fairly difficult one to equate since both games offer extremely different things. What are your rules for this particular debate?

[Morwath.9817]

> @kKagari.6804 said:

> > @Morwath.9817 said:

> > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > @Morwath.9817 said:

> > > > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > > > @FOX.3582 said:

> > > > > > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > > > > > @Sismis.5390 said:

> > > > > > > > Look its clear what the comrade mentioned up there thief and mesmer can counter it.BUT lets not forget thx to very few skilled of them 90% of the games it will not happen.Players aren't that good lately have seen in matches.Thanks to that MM cant prevent class stacking still probelm!!And other 1000 issues we going to have and have.So we will have matches where we just get steamrolled in this Aoe Spamm festival.People will continue to experience awful match-ups and games what will lead to frustration and drive more people away. Currently its happening and will continue another problem why it will create more complains on forum and strange suggestion while we cant have proper match up.Cause its right now just a steamroll on the 1 way down for one side.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Game shouldn't be balanced based on lowest common denominator skill levels. Thief has the tools to easily counter firebrands, it is simply a L2P issue if certain thieves can't do it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Balancing this game around three high skilled players instead of the majority of the playerbase for the sake of EEEESPUURTZZZ is what made PvP in this game a giant shhaat fest in the first place. You should work at Anet, you’ll fit right in! :)

> > > > >

> > > > > Why should everyone be playing the game at the level of people incapable or unwilling to improve? It's because of nonsense arguments like this that the game is where it is now; you make everything with care bear levels of execution just so "the majority" can do it and you're left with a game with no depth and no means of skill differentiation.

> > > > >

> > > > > You should work on education reforms and hand participation awards. Oh wait..

> > > >

> > > > Are you telling me that LOL and DOTA2 are games with no depth and no means of skill differentiation? Because GW2 is far more complex than any of them, even on potato level of gameplay.

> > >

> > > I can't speak for LoL but i know Dota is primarily balanced at the esports level. The game happens to be low skill level friendly because it is well designed. You don't see riki getting nerfed to oblivion because new players cry about him in every patch iteration. The thing is, most beginners in dota understand the concept of L2P whereas here you have people screaming along the lines of "if i cant do it no one else shoulf be able to either"

> >

> > Quaggan was talking about complexity.

>

> I'm not sure GW2 is more complex. Its a fairly difficult one to equate since both games offer extremely different things. What are your rules for this particular debate?

 

Number of skills you can use, how you rotate them, how they combo with each other etc...

[kKagari.6804]

> @Morwath.9817 said:

> > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > @Morwath.9817 said:

> > > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > > @Morwath.9817 said:

> > > > > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > > > > @FOX.3582 said:

> > > > > > > > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > > > > > > > @Sismis.5390 said:

> > > > > > > > > Look its clear what the comrade mentioned up there thief and mesmer can counter it.BUT lets not forget thx to very few skilled of them 90% of the games it will not happen.Players aren't that good lately have seen in matches.Thanks to that MM cant prevent class stacking still probelm!!And other 1000 issues we going to have and have.So we will have matches where we just get steamrolled in this Aoe Spamm festival.People will continue to experience awful match-ups and games what will lead to frustration and drive more people away. Currently its happening and will continue another problem why it will create more complains on forum and strange suggestion while we cant have proper match up.Cause its right now just a steamroll on the 1 way down for one side.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Game shouldn't be balanced based on lowest common denominator skill levels. Thief has the tools to easily counter firebrands, it is simply a L2P issue if certain thieves can't do it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Balancing this game around three high skilled players instead of the majority of the playerbase for the sake of EEEESPUURTZZZ is what made PvP in this game a giant shhaat fest in the first place. You should work at Anet, you’ll fit right in! :)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why should everyone be playing the game at the level of people incapable or unwilling to improve? It's because of nonsense arguments like this that the game is where it is now; you make everything with care bear levels of execution just so "the majority" can do it and you're left with a game with no depth and no means of skill differentiation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You should work on education reforms and hand participation awards. Oh wait..

> > > > >

> > > > > Are you telling me that LOL and DOTA2 are games with no depth and no means of skill differentiation? Because GW2 is far more complex than any of them, even on potato level of gameplay.

> > > >

> > > > I can't speak for LoL but i know Dota is primarily balanced at the esports level. The game happens to be low skill level friendly because it is well designed. You don't see riki getting nerfed to oblivion because new players cry about him in every patch iteration. The thing is, most beginners in dota understand the concept of L2P whereas here you have people screaming along the lines of "if i cant do it no one else shoulf be able to either"

> > >

> > > Quaggan was talking about complexity.

> >

> > I'm not sure GW2 is more complex. Its a fairly difficult one to equate since both games offer extremely different things. What are your rules for this particular debate?

>

> Number of skills you can use, how you rotate them, how they combo with each other etc...

 

Well you have DotA at a disadvantage because rotation isn't exactly a concept, your cooldowns are higher and you don't sequentially use all your skills and reuse them immediately thereafter, with the exception of Tinker. But I'm not sure there is that much complexity in rote memorization of what sequence you use skills to begin with. The time to kill is often much higher in DotA once an engagement begins and there are few heroes that can 'sustain', so all these concepts that GW2 has is incomparable.

 

Just like how mechanics to deal with lane control, creepscore, jungle timings, adaptive buildmaking vs GW2's predetermined buildmaking are things that make DotA infinitely more complex, and can't be compared with in GW2.

 

And if the comparison is based on skill usage, I'd give it to DotA, because its the quality of the skill usage rather than the quantity. There are so many skills in GW2 that are fairly inconsequential if you land or miss. Sure, its good for a necromancer to land Grasping Dead, it does damage and cripple, but so many classes have an abundance of ways to mitigate the cripple that in the long run, missing one or two of your Grasping Dead is not very significant.

 

In DotA, entire battles can hinge upon 1 aptly used skill. And sure, there are moments like that in GW2 surely, but I'd say moments like this in DotA come in much higher frequency.

 

[Loop.8106]

> @Exciton.8942 said:

> Firebrand is like healer tempest but more versatile in its support capability.

>

> I would like to see its power level brought down to healer tempest level. This way we can see two viable team fight supporters in the meta game.

>

> The reason why I think it is firebrand that needs to be brought down instead of tempest buff is simply to avoid power creep.

>

> IMHO, there should be no more power creep over the old HoT meta. The boon/condi spam was already borderline too much. All new HoT specs need to brought down to HoT level.

 

You still kind of need to keep the healing on Firebrand though.

Reasoning being, Firebrand does absolutely no damage at all. None. While Tempest still hits for pretty sizable damage with overload air and even Fire 3. Tempest also has CC potential in Water + Air 5 and projectile hate in Air / Earth 4. Couple this with the superior mobility with Perma Swiftness and blink, and you have a much more mobile and less polarized support class.

This means, if Firebrand healing is nerfed to the point of Tempest. No one would ever pick it.

 

That being said, I think it definetely needs to be toned down. I'm just not sure how as I haven't played it for more than 5 games. But the complete inability to kill a Scourge that's getting baby-sat by a Firebrand is getting on my nerves.

 

I would be really interested to see if changes would make it possible to move Firebrand into a more dueling type roll with Celestial Amulet. Running something along the lines of Honor / Zeal with Shattered Aegis. Would be really fun, instead of being a pure support class. (Since they completely removed the ability to play burn Firebrand.)

[Chaith.8256]

> @Loop.8106 said:

> > @Exciton.8942 said:

> > Firebrand is like healer tempest but more versatile in its support capability.

> >

> > I would like to see its power level brought down to healer tempest level. This way we can see two viable team fight supporters in the meta game.

> >

> > The reason why I think it is firebrand that needs to be brought down instead of tempest buff is simply to avoid power creep.

> >

> > IMHO, there should be no more power creep over the old HoT meta. The boon/condi spam was already borderline too much. All new HoT specs need to brought down to HoT level.

>

> You still kind of need to keep the healing on Firebrand though.

> Reasoning being, Firebrand does absolutely no damage at all. None. While Tempest still hits for pretty sizable damage with overload air and even Fire 3. Tempest also has CC potential in Water + Air 5 and projectile hate in Air / Earth 4. Couple this with the superior mobility with Perma Swiftness and blink, and you have a much more mobile and less polarized support class.

> This means, if Firebrand healing is nerfed to the point of Tempest. No one would ever pick it.

>

> That being said, I think it definetely needs to be toned down. I'm just not sure how as I haven't played it for more than 5 games. But the complete inability to kill a Scourge that's getting baby-sat by a Firebrand is getting on my nerves.

>

> I would be really interested to see if changes would make it possible to move Firebrand into a more dueling type roll with Celestial Amulet. Running something along the lines of Honor / Zeal with Shattered Aegis. Would be really fun, instead of being a pure support class. (Since they completely removed the ability to play burn Firebrand.)

 

Firebrand will always be a staple main support, unless it is a main support and a main duelist. NA Firebrands bring perma swiftness for them and a Scourge, Courage tome has good projectile hate. I dunno if your argument is meaningful in that Ele would be picked for extra damage it brings over Firebrand, I'd say they're both rather negligble. If an Ele and Firebrand both ran Magi's amulet and covered a point in two symbols or an air overload, meh. It's a power struggle between the support abilities for ONE job, Scourge/main support. Other MMO's have all gone through this, it needs fine tuning so that Tempest and Firebrand have equal pros and cons, and achieve the same results in a different flavor.

 

 

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @Loop.8106 said:

> > @Exciton.8942 said:

> > Firebrand is like healer tempest but more versatile in its support capability.

> >

> > I would like to see its power level brought down to healer tempest level. This way we can see two viable team fight supporters in the meta game.

> >

> > The reason why I think it is firebrand that needs to be brought down instead of tempest buff is simply to avoid power creep.

> >

> > IMHO, there should be no more power creep over the old HoT meta. The boon/condi spam was already borderline too much. All new HoT specs need to brought down to HoT level.

>

> You still kind of need to keep the healing on Firebrand though.

> Reasoning being, Firebrand does absolutely no damage at all. None. While Tempest still hits for pretty sizable damage with overload air and even Fire 3. Tempest also has CC potential in Water + Air 5 and projectile hate in Air / Earth 4. Couple this with the superior mobility with Perma Swiftness and blink, and you have a much more mobile and less polarized support class.

> This means, if Firebrand healing is nerfed to the point of Tempest. No one would ever pick it.

>

> That being said, I think it definetely needs to be toned down. I'm just not sure how as I haven't played it for more than 5 games. But the complete inability to kill a Scourge that's getting baby-sat by a Firebrand is getting on my nerves.

>

> I would be really interested to see if changes would make it possible to move Firebrand into a more dueling type roll with Celestial Amulet. Running something along the lines of Honor / Zeal with Shattered Aegis. Would be really fun, instead of being a pure support class. (Since they completely removed the ability to play burn Firebrand.)

 

It's not a support's job to duel or be entertaining. It's to keep the DPS alive and bunker until they get there. You are the girlfriend of the team, you are the medic. Your job isn't supposed to be 'entertaining' or 'flashy'. You get the job done and move on.

 

That's why people barely have supports in their game. That's why people nerf supports into the floor, and that's why people will continue to cry nerfs randomly, because people want some entertainment value when you have one of the most important jobs and should be focusing that instead.

 

You babysit, you keep them alove, you CC, and pat your DPS on the back. If you don't want that/can't handle that then go play DPS instead of expecting something more than what was implemented.

 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

> @musu.9205 said:

> tempest was strong , it was no where near ground before pof . and only 3 new broken elite made it seems weak.

 

It doesn't help that tempest relies a lot on boons to do its thing, while the thing of spellbreakers and scourges is stripping your boons (and possibly making you wish you didn't have them in the first place in the case of scourges), and it's hard to do your job as a tempest while also effectively avoiding the special mechanics of scourge and spellbreaker. The two specs would probably be tempest counters even if they weren't so strong generally - when they are strong (and are used a lot as a result) it does make things painful for the tempests.

 

In my experience in the off season, tempest still feels pretty impactful as long as you're not regularly facing up against spellbreakers or scourges.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> I'm not sure that Firebrand is OP. All you have to do is strip Aegis/use an unblockable and they die pretty quickly.

 

oh is that all?

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @ArthurDent.9538 said:

> > @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

> > core radiance guard can kill FB

> > power herald can kill FB

> > all non-condi thief specs can kill FB

> > power mes can kill FB.

>

> This may be true but the problem is none of them can survive in a teamfight long enough to really pressure the FB before a scourge accidentally kills them with AOE and you will almost never find a firebrand running around alone. Also I don't see power mes having enough sustained damage to bring down a competently played firebrand which will have enough stun-breaks/stability to avoid the one shot combos everytime.

 

This ^ This ^ This a 100 times this^

 

People keep mentioning 1v1 fights.

There are no 'gentleman duels' at mid.