STIHL.2489 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > Anet needs to find a solution for chrono/druid/ps being the holy support trinity. Why? That was the whole problem before, that there was not roles to be filled direct classes. Everyone fussed and fancied how great games like Wow were with their roles and raids. Everyone wanted some kind of Raid with a Trinity based Model put in. Congrats! You got what you wanted, now play your Chrno/Druid/PS.. and be sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > Anet needs to find a solution for chrono/druid/ps being the holy support trinity. > > Why? > > That was the whole problem before, that there was not roles to be filled direct classes. Everyone fussed and fancied how great games like Wow were with their roles and raids. Everyone wanted some kind of Raid with a Trinity based Model put in. > > Congrats! You got what you wanted, now play your Chrno/Druid/PS.. and be sad. You see the difference between WoW roles and GW2 roles is that in WoW the roles are TANK, DPS, HEALER, which can be filled by a variety of classes. In GW2 the roles are Chrono, Druid, PS and DPS. I hope you can see the huge difference and don't need any further explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > Anet needs to find a solution for chrono/druid/ps being the holy support trinity. > > Why? > > That was the whole problem before, that there was not roles to be filled direct classes. Everyone fussed and fancied how great games like Wow were with their roles and raids. Everyone wanted some kind of Raid with a Trinity based Model put in. > > Congrats! You got what you wanted, now play your Chrno/Druid/PS.. and be sad. It's about giving more professions optimal supporting build to compete with these three. Meanwhile build diversity, after 5 years, is still non existant. 6 slots in raid is almost always the same, the other 4 are just current flavour of the month dps cows. > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > Everything that's gated by expansion is part of the expansion. > > > > > > LOL. That is like saying that **Wrath of the Lich King** is really just part of **Burning Crusade**. > > > > Last time I checked we were talking about GW2, not WoW. > > Last time I checked, people don't get lobotomized and changed their whole view on MMO's just because they playing a different game. hence all ya begging for Raids to start with. If You all took the mentality that this was GW2 and not WoW. Ya would have embraced the this was a Raidless game and moved on with your life. ArenaNet wants to challenge MMO genre and improve it. That's their motto for this game. Therefore I'm not going to apply other mmos culture here as this is not what arenanet wants to do. Also, WoW and GW2 have different bussiness models. Now back to your original failed concept - raids are expansion content. Some are HoT gated, new are going to be most likely PoF gated. Wonder if they ever implement core raid, would be interesting to see the reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > ArenaNet wants to challenge MMO genre and improve it. That's their motto for this game. That may have been true at one point, but they seem to have given up on this quite a time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > ArenaNet wants to challenge MMO genre and improve it. That's their motto for this game. Therefore I'm not going to apply other mmos culture here as this is not what arenanet wants to do. Also, WoW and GW2 have different bussiness models. That would have been great to read.. before they bucked to the pressure by people like you wanted raids so this game would be like everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > Anet needs to find a solution for chrono/druid/ps being the holy support trinity. > > > > Why? > > > > That was the whole problem before, that there was not roles to be filled direct classes. Everyone fussed and fancied how great games like Wow were with their roles and raids. Everyone wanted some kind of Raid with a Trinity based Model put in. > > > > Congrats! You got what you wanted, now play your Chrno/Druid/PS.. and be sad. > > You see the difference between WoW roles and GW2 roles is that in WoW the roles are TANK, DPS, HEALER, which can be filled by a variety of classes. In GW2 the roles are Chrono, Druid, PS and DPS. I hope you can see the huge difference and don't need any further explanation. Ok, Kids lets have a sit down and talk about what is a role and what is not a role, and learn a valuable lesson between what is a class and what is a role. A Role is what you do. IE: DPS, HEALER, CC, TANK, KITE, Etc. A Class, what abilities you have, IE: Guard, Warrior, Elementalist, Necro, Theif, Etc. In GW2, raids have roles, there are TANK, DPS, CC, HEALER. Just because Chrono, Druid, and PS fill those roles the best, does not mean they are the Roles themselves, it just means they are Meta for those roles . For example, a Druid can provide the best healing, that does not mean that a Druid is a role, it means they can fill the role of healer the best. Guards, Ele's, and to a lesser extent even engineers can offer healing as well, they are just not as good at it as a Druid would be. So just because Druid is the best healer, that does not suddenly make Druid a role, much in the same way, in EQ, a Cleric was the best healer, that did not make "Cleric" a role, the role was still Healer. Have we all learned a lesson on what is a role, and what is class? Just for Extra Credit: WoW raids have up to 40 people in them, GW2 raids have 10, there is going to be a total lack of diversity between the two, like.. oh around a quarter the options, and look at that.. there IS a quarter the options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > It's about giving more professions optimal supporting build to compete with these three. Meanwhile build diversity, after 5 years, is still non existant. 6 slots in raid is almost always the same, the other 4 are just current flavour of the month dps cows. Welcome to **Every MMO Ever Made that has Raids**.. if that was not what you wanted, you should not have asked for GW2 to be like every other game and put in a roles and raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > Ok, Kids lets have a sit down and talk about what is a role and what is not a role, and learn a valuable lesson between what is a class and what is a role. Oh you said it: > That was the whole problem before, that there was not roles to be filled direct classes. Everyone fussed and fancied how great games like Wow were with their roles and raids. Everyone wanted some kind of Raid with a Trinity based Model put in. > Congrats! You got what you wanted, now play your Chrno/Druid/PS.. and be sad. Now next time know the difference and don't try to be clever, it doesn't suit you. And to educate those who have no clue about the game called Guild Wars 2: >For example, a Druid can provide the best healing, that does not mean that a Druid is a role, it means they can fill the role of healer the best. This is garbage, the reason everyone chose Druid/PS/Chrono is because they buffed the damage of the group, not because they were the best in their role. Understood now? PS: This changed with this patch, at least as far as PS is concerned PS2: They are called professions, not classes, another valuable lesson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > It's about giving more professions optimal supporting build to compete with these three. Meanwhile build diversity, after 5 years, is still non existant. 6 slots in raid is almost always the same, the other 4 are just current flavour of the month dps cows. After today, not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > Welcome to **Every MMO Ever Made that has Raids**.. if that was not what you wanted, you should not have asked for GW2 to be like every other game and put in a roles and raids. No. That is only something that exists in Guild Wars 2. It's a unique feature of the game to have such over-performing builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > Welcome to **Every MMO Ever Made that has Raids**.. if that was not what you wanted, you should not have asked for GW2 to be like every other game and put in a roles and raids. > > No. That is only something that exists in Guild Wars 2. It's a unique feature of the game to have such over-performing builds. LOL, what is your gaming resume.. WoW/GW2? Have you never played a game like Tera (which, IMHO, GW2 raids seems to be molded after their 10 man raids). There is a Healer role.. guess what single class **always** fills it? Bonus question Guess what single class **only** fills it. Also, regarding classes, You can call potato, it does change what they are and the position they fill in an MMO game. And again, the Role is Healer, not Druid. now play your Druid Healer and be sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Astralporing.1957 said: > > @Miellyn.6847 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > @Miellyn.6847 said: > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > > > > @TheRandomGuy.7246 said: > > > > > > > If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make. > > > > > > > > > > Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment > > > > > > > > And where is the proof for that statment other than your hate for raids? > > > > > > Raid rewards are not monetized. > > > > Raids need the current expansion to play the next raids. So they actually cost money. Unlike fractals, WvW or sPvP. > > My point still stands. It's just pure hate on your part. > > Yeah. You could play PvP without elite specs, i suppose. Just don't place too much hope on actually being competitive. > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > Welcome to **Every MMO Ever Made that has Raids**.. if that was not what you wanted, you should not have asked for GW2 to be like every other game and put in a roles and raids. > > > > No. That is only something that exists in Guild Wars 2. It's a unique feature of the game to have such over-performing builds. > > LOL, what is your gaming resume.. WoW/GW2? > > Have you never played a game like Tera (which, IMHO, GW2 raids seems to be molded after their 10 man raids). There is a Healer role.. guess what single class **always** fills it? > > Bonus question Guess what single class **only** fills it. > > Also, regarding classes, You can call potato, it does change what they are and the position they fill in an MMO game. And again, the Role is Healer, not Druid. now play your Druid Healer and be sad. And after the balance patch you only bring 1 druid and 1 warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Miellyn.6847 said: > And after the balance patch you only bring 1 druid and 1 warrior. Well, to stay on the topic of the future of Raids, it's clear that they want to reduce the mirror comp (an obvious choice). I hope Chrono gets their "fix" too some time but I understand that's much harder to do. The latest patch was a good step towards more variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 The Future of Raids: Started with: We should Get more Loot! (typical of every elitist that wants gloat) Mid Way, we have come to: Raids are Mediocre Junk and Not worth a Paying For. Now we are At: After we begged Anet to give us raids and roles, which screwed up their foundation system of everyone being self sufficient and able to do any role, we want to go back to more classes being able do any role. Ok this topic alone.. has shown me that raids were a mistake.. maybe the best future for raids would be to Turn them into Fractals, and do away with this role stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > The Future of Raids: > > Started with: We should Get more Loot! (typical of every elitist that wants gloat) > > Mid Way, we have come to: Raids are Mediocre Junk and Not worth a Paying For. > > Now we are At: After we begged Anet to give us raids and roles, which screwed up their foundation system of everyone being self sufficient and able to do any role, we want to go back to more classes being able do any role. > > Ok this topic alone.. has shown me that raids were a mistake.. maybe the best future for raids would be to Turn them into Fractals, and do away with this role stuff. The only road for raids is repeating dungeon scenario, not fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > The only road for raids is repeating dungeon scenario, not fractals. The only road for Raids is to get more Raids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > The Future of Raids: > > Started with: We should Get more Loot! (typical of every elitist that wants gloat) > > Mid Way, we have come to: Raids are Mediocre Junk and Not worth a Paying For. > > Now we are At: After we begged Anet to give us raids and roles, which screwed up their foundation system of everyone being self sufficient and able to do any role, we want to go back to more classes being able do any role. > > Ok this topic alone.. has shown me that raids were a mistake.. maybe the best future for raids would be to Turn them into Fractals, and do away with this role stuff. Strange logic I have to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > The only road for raids is repeating dungeon scenario, not fractals. > > The only road for Raids is to get more Raids > Just hope its not a dead end street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > The only road for raids is repeating dungeon scenario, not fractals. > > > > The only road for Raids is to get more Raids > > > > Just hope its not a dead end street. Why should it be? Merforga's data shows that the raiding scene is a very active one taking in consideration that by far not every static uses his site (https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/12186/gw2raidar-log-parsing-stats-and-data-driven-benchmarks). Mine does neither and we are far from being an inexperienced groups which don't even use dps meters or any other analysis tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > The only road for raids is repeating dungeon scenario, not fractals. > > > > The only road for Raids is to get more Raids > > > > Just hope its not a dead end street. Well that's true for all types of content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Vinceman.4572 said: > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > The only road for raids is repeating dungeon scenario, not fractals. > > > > > > The only road for Raids is to get more Raids > > > > > > > Just hope its not a dead end street. > > Why should it be? A lot of people played Dungeons too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @STIHL.2489 said: > > @Vinceman.4572 said: > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > The only road for raids is repeating dungeon scenario, not fractals. > > > > > > > > The only road for Raids is to get more Raids > > > > > > > > > > Just hope its not a dead end street. > > > > Why should it be? > > A lot of people played Dungeons too... Dungeons weren't what they were advertised to be, if they were maybe they would've stayed alive forever. But we'll never know now right? Plus they were created with faulty and old developer tools, their coding made it harder to make new dungeons and fix/tweak the old ones. As was made more than clear when Aetherpath was released. Plus kicking the dungeon team that was the only team with knowledge of how those inefficient dungeon tools worked at the time made things even worse. It wasn't a simple problem of player participation that killed dungeons. With Raids we see them use tools created for Raids then go and be used in the rest of the game. So not only they use superior tools to make Raids, but they create new awesome tools in Raids usable in the rest of the game. So technical issues won't be an issue with Raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > @Vinceman.4572 said: > > > > @STIHL.2489 said: > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > > > The only road for raids is repeating dungeon scenario, not fractals. > > > > > > > > > > The only road for Raids is to get more Raids > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just hope its not a dead end street. > > > > > > Why should it be? > > > > A lot of people played Dungeons too... > > Dungeons weren't what they were advertised to be, if they were maybe they would've stayed alive forever. Content for whiny entitled snot nosed elitist?.. yah.. they were that content.. well.. they **were** that content when they let go of the dungeon team, at least. > With Raids we see them use tools created for Raids then go and be used in the rest of the game. So not only they use superior tools to make Raids, but they create new awesome tools in Raids usable in the rest of the game. So technical issues won't be an issue with Raids. I hope they come out with a salt shaker staff and glider if they ever do opt to.. shall we say... **stall**.. future raid development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > Dungeons weren't what they were advertised to be, if they were maybe they would've stayed alive forever. If they were what you think they were advertised to be, they'd have died even faster. For one, they were still really popular (almost certainly much more popular than raids are now, and not only because the whole game population was much bigger then) when Anet canned the whole dungeon team. Do you really think that this team would have been retained if there would have been _less_ players consistently running them? > @maddoctor.2738 said: > So technical issues won't be an issue with Raids. True. Most likely the issue will be the same as with most other abandoned content - Anet's tendency to start things big, and then abandon them once their shininess wears out, in favour of the Next Big Thing. Once Raids get relegated from the Big New Stuff to the everyday's thing (which is already happening), Anet's interest in promoting this content will go down. Once that happens, players' interest will follow. Once that happens, Anet's eventually going to decide it's no longer worth putting too much effort in it. The only question is how long that's going to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Astralporing.1957 said: > For one, they were still really popular (almost certainly much more popular than raids are now, and not only because the whole game population was much bigger then) > I really doubt this. Almost certainly the dungeons were never as popular as Raids. > Once Raids get relegated from the Big New Stuff to the everyday's thing (which is already happening), Anet's interest in promoting this content will go down. Again, I really doubt this. We'll see what happens with the next wing, if they stay true to what they said about it, or if it's a massive disappointment. It won't take long, the next Raid release should be really close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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