Its too late to ask for Necro changes now.

[Meetshield.1756]

You guys Posting about Core necro changes and nerf Deathly chill and whatever ... Its too late now to be asking for changes to the Balance patch that will come out Tuesday. That code is in debugging at this point... They aren't changing things this late into the game...

 

And Scourge is a Healer, let your world flip upside down thinking about that for a second, and then go start collecting Karka Shells and Apothacaries gear...

[Starmiz.3298]

> @Meetshield.1756 said:

> And Scourge is a Healer, let your world flip upside down thinking about that for a second, and then go start collecting Karka Shells and Apothacaries gear...

Well the Tempest can both be a top DPS class and a great support class (obviously not simultaniously). Locking a spec into a specific role is kind of against the design philosphy. I would love to play support on my scourge. It is the reason why I picked the class, but it's nice to have the option to balance how much dps and support you would like to have. They failed to make it worthwhile support, but that isn't because of the damage output.

[Meetshield.1756]

No it is Worthwhile support. I already made a post showing that it can have 1200 condi dmg, 1600 healing power and compare to a Full Minstrel Tempest in healing. I have tested its abilities against a Tempest and I out-heal them 2-1, before you add the Barrier Mechanic which is about 3 times more powerful than the healing, but since it is over-healing I discount that. Tempest has better pocket / spike heal, and Scourge has better constant sustain healing. Scourge makes it up in Barrier for the spike healing so that his Sustain heal has time to proc.

 

As for damage. The community is simply confused about this, there is only 1 serious damage trait in the entire scourge line and it competes directly with Sand Savant which is 100% required on all builds. It is not Anet's fault that we are confused, it is Wooden Potatoes and his Legion of people who can't think for themselves. WP said "Looks Like Scourge is the Condi spec for Necro", and "It looks like they are nerfing deathly chill" . And even after the nerf to Scourge damage, and no nerf to deathly chill, this forum is Full of people posting for more Damage from Scourge and Nerfs to reaper? I'm sorry but this is not the reality of the situation.

 

Scourge will get a buff, and it will likely be in how strong Barrier is. It should be more heavily tied to Healing Power, and it Should be decay on some sort of max constant rate so for example if you get a 7k Barrier it can't decay any faster than 800 barrier per second, which would allow larger applications of barrier to take longer to decay, rather than just going away that much faster.

 

So no I completely disagree with you about Scourge not being Viable for Healing in 10 Man Raid content that is just laughable. He can provide 6 Seconds of damage mitigation on demand, from 3 different sources, on relatively low cooldowns. He can Likely TANK the boss, while Healing the Raid, and doing reasonable DPS. Why would anyone not have 1 in the Raid? 600 Range AOE healing and revive pulses? Largest Health pool in the game? Instant damage mitigation, 9-12k Heals every 12 seconds to 5 players. Topped off players overflow healing to other parties? Its overpowered really. And Armor sets allow you to do this with Power (Zealot / Marshals / Crusader) or Condi (Shaman's Apothacaries).

 

Just ignore the silly torment damage on your F1-F5 abilities. They are a joke due to the low duration, and not worth the investment in condition duration. A Rev auto-attacking with mace will apply more condi pressure than a Scourge burning through his life force with full Trailblazer armor. Since the beginning of GW2, Necro has been one of the best DPS classes, but until the DPS meter came out it was not understood. All the other classes were there to Support the Necromancer. Things are now on the other foot. It is Necromancer turn to support everyone else.

[Lahmia.2193]

Can Scourge bring a +10% damage/condi damage buff, with spotter and sun/frost spirits? Because that's why Druid is taken as a healer. So get off your high horse about Scourge being such a great healer. It can't provide the party support people want so it won't get a slot as a healer unless Anet somehow grants us all those buffs and more.

[Starmiz.3298]

So because you enjoy playing Scourge as healer you don't give a fuck about how the class plays in other ways? What got me interested in the scourge was the flexibility between damage and support. Not being shoehorned into doing one of the roles. The condi damage on those skills are there for a reason. So how about we see the scourge as a potential damage / support hybrid rather than shrugging off half the specialization? We are well aware it isn't the main condi dps spec but it shouldn't rule out any options about doing viable condi dps. Scourge being a viable dmg dealer doesn't have to rule out core necro or reaper. Anet just need to fix the core issues with the class.

 

> The community is simply confused about this, there is only 1 serious damage trait in the entire scourge line and it competes directly with Sand Savant which is 100% required on all builds.

 

So 7% condi damage to expertise and 75 expertise per shade isn't serious? Not to mention the still great synergy with dhuumfire. And Sand Savant isn't required for all builds. It all depends on what you want to achieve. You know: Having options.

 

And as Lahmia has mentioned, there isn't much room in the meta for a healer who can't do much offensive support. I enjoy playing my support tempest but there aren't many groups that need a dedicated healer with no offensive support. The scourge might generation is still inferior to PS. But hopefully Anet will make some changes here: so we will have options.

[Sephylon.4938]

You come off as rather pompous here. I get that you love scourge, but the message I'm getting from you is that you're asking us to be happy with having a broken old toy while most of the other classes have shiny new toys that work well with each other and never dream of having that.

[Dadnir.5038]

> Scourge has better constant sustain healing.

 

That made me laugh, thank you.

Honnestly, if you are not able to out-sustain heal a scourge with a tempest, then there is a need to worry about what you're doing. As a healing tempest, let's assume that you really wann try and camp water with your staff, each second you will:

- Heal from _soothing mist_ (168 hp/s in apothecary)

- maintain regen (330 hp/s in apothecary)

- heal up to 5 allies with your auto attack. (761 hp/s in apothecary)

 

If this is unable to out heal _vampiric presence_ (38 health per hit) and regen then there is a huge issue in the game.

 

Now, as a healing tempest, you also provide tons of vigor, water fields, blast in the water fields and heal on dodge. You'll also probably take some utilities that can help you to heal your allies.

 

And as a scourge you will have transfusion as an extra that will do something around 729 hp/s for 9 seconds every 15 seconds and barriers that will prevent (or not) a hit.

 

Potentially, your tempest that is dedicated to healing will out heal the scourge easily. Now, if you want to bring damage on top of the healing, the healing scourge might very well easily out dps the healing tempest.

 

Except that all of this is for naught as soon as the PvE mechanisms are thoroughly learned by your team and that everyone will want to cut on the out healing stuff and look for way to quicken the fight.

 

Aaaaaaaaaannnd this bring us to always the same thing, Scourge do not have a kind of support that is attractive in PvE end game and will then be kept out of the raids as a profession that have below average dps and non attractive support.

 

NB.: I could even be twisted enough to create a healing weaver build and this would be totally successful. Since I could maintain _soothing mist_, regen and protection 100% uptime on my group, heal for 2k each time I enter water attunment (every 4 second!). There is some pretty huge potential support in the weaver even if nobody want to look at it.

 

NB.(2): Now that I think about it, you shouldn't push scourges toward apothecary, there is way to much toughness in it and there is a risk that it will hurt your group's agro management.

[Obtena.7952]

> @Meetshield.1756 said:

> You guys Posting about Core necro changes and nerf bitter chill and whatever ... Its too late now to be asking for changes to the Balance patch that will come out Tuesday. That code is in debugging at this point... They aren't changing things this late into the game...

>

> And Scourge is a Healer, let your world flip upside down thinking about that for a second, and then go start collecting Karka Shells and Apothacaries gear...

 

It's almost like you don't understand there will be future balance patches .... no wait, it's CLEARLY that you don't understand there are future balance patches.

 

Aside from that ... I haven't looked into a healing build with Scourge ... what are the traits involved with that? C

[HardRider.2980]

> @Meetshield.1756 said:

> You guys Posting about Core necro changes and nerf bitter chill and whatever ... Its too late now to be asking for changes to the Balance patch that will come out Tuesday. That code is in debugging at this point... They aren't changing things this late into the game...

 

 

Oh you mean changes we've been asking for and suggesting for weeks/months now?

Don't come here thinking you know what's been going down. Because clearly from the attitude of your post/words.. you clearly don't

 

 

[Meetshield.1756]

I have been watching the forums since WP came out and said incorrectly that Deathly Chill would be nerfed. His comment was because he didn't realize Deathly Chill in PVE is split and already has the 1 stack. If he had known that he wouldn't make the comment and noone would have ever said anything about a nerf to Deathly Chill.

 

Changes to the Reaper line have nothing to do with Scourge... So stop thinking they do. Changes to Core traits do, so if you want a buff to scourge damage, you might get it, but you missed the point on Scourge. Its a Healer / Support class. I main necro its a hard pill to swallow why did they Pick Necro of all classes to be a healer? I have no idea. I just know that 916k healing in 2 mins vs a full minstrel Tempest that got 200k and a Full Minstrel Guard that got 300k, means I am the better healer.

 

I created the topic to push the other topics about Deathly Chill which is just left over mis-understandings from WP down to the bottom of the page in hopes that we could get some actual conversation started about Necro. Your bumping my post is helping me obtain this goal. If you want to play DPS Necro, you have 2 good specs. Power Core Necro, and Condi Reaper. If you want changes to Scourge then look to barrier improvements. And Removal of Small shade, not nerfs to other specs which aren't even competitive.

[Meetshield.1756]

Oh and before you go telling me Reaper is a better Power spec than Core, go look up the base Power scaling on Life blast, and try again.

[Obtena.7952]

> @Meetshield.1756 said:

> Oh and before you go telling me Reaper is a better Power spec than Core, go look up the base Power scaling on Life blast, and try again.

 

Still waiting for this amazing healer build ...

[Saracen.2691]



 

Stop pretending like necro is in any way a good place. You'll make ANet think they haven't made a complete travesty of the class.

 

[Meetshield.1756]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> Still waiting for this amazing healer build ...

WvW Version :astonished:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAW7PW6GMqPwI4Qp3THqJ1pHwGLAA-jVSDQB8RXg8eCAqc/BAcBA0iyPjdQAmnGBBpEUSq/QKA/mZB-w

Raid Healer Version :

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAW7PnE9Cl2gl9Cs9iluBTvnOUTqUfgRwha6BsxCAA-jFSDQBA4CAIJ1fU5+DYU5nxOIAlUJo8eCA8R3ApA8bmF-w

[Obtena.7952]

So you spam F4, layer barriers and get lots of regen from Staff 2. OK.

 

You claim it's better than others ... anyone else can confirm that? Seems to me it's worth qT to have a look at it if it's that's good.

[kKagari.6804]

> @Meetshield.1756 said:

> Oh and before you go telling me Reaper is a better Power spec than Core, go look up the base Power scaling on Life blast, and try again.

 

Ask and you shall receive:

 

RS1 chain has a coefficient over time ratio of 1.16

DS1 has a coefficient over time ratio of 1.

 

DS1 is not better than RS1. Assuming as a power spec both the reaper and core take spite and soul reaping, you're likely trading reaper for death magic with the deadly strength trait for you to get the absolute mileage out of DS1. On a berserker build you get 140 more power but that won't tip you over the damage you lose from the .16 less coefficient.

 

Realistically, from comparison of shrouds core necro is not better in power specs than reaper.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

> @Meetshield.1756 said:

> No it is Worthwhile support. I already made a post showing that it can have 1200 condi dmg, 1600 healing power and compare to a Full Minstrel Tempest in healing. I have tested its abilities against a Tempest and I out-heal them 2-1, before you add the Barrier Mechanic which is about 3 times more powerful than the healing, but since it is over-healing I discount that. Tempest has better pocket / spike heal, and Scourge has better constant sustain healing. Scourge makes it up in Barrier for the spike healing so that his Sustain heal has time to proc.

>

> As for damage. The community is simply confused about this, there is only 1 serious damage trait in the entire scourge line and it competes directly with Sand Savant which is 100% required on all builds. It is not Anet's fault that we are confused, it is Wooden Potatoes and his Legion of people who can't think for themselves. WP said "Looks Like Scourge is the Condi spec for Necro", and "It looks like they are nerfing bitter chill" . And even after the nerf to Scourge damage, and no nerf to bitter chill, this forum is Full of people posting for more Damage from Scourge and Nerfs to reaper? I'm sorry but this is not the reality of the situation.

>

> Scourge will get a buff, and it will likely be in how strong Barrier is. It should be more heavily tied to Healing Power, and it Should be decay on some sort of max constant rate so for example if you get a 7k Barrier it can't decay any faster than 800 barrier per second, which would allow larger applications of barrier to take longer to decay, rather than just going away that much faster.

>

> So no I completely disagree with you about Scourge not being Viable for Healing in 10 Man Raid content that is just laughable. He can provide 6 Seconds of damage mitigation on demand, from 3 different sources, on relatively low cooldowns. He can Likely TANK the boss, while Healing the Raid, and doing reasonable DPS. Why would anyone not have 1 in the Raid? 600 Range AOE healing and revive pulses? Largest Health pool in the game? Instant damage mitigation, 9-12k Heals every 12 seconds to 5 players. Topped off players overflow healing to other parties? Its overpowered really. And Armor sets allow you to do this with Power (Zealot / Marshals / Crusader) or Condi (Shaman's Apothacaries).

>

> Just ignore the silly torment damage on your F1-F5 abilities. They are a joke due to the low duration, and not worth the investment in condition duration. A Rev auto-attacking with mace will apply more condi pressure than a Scourge burning through his life force with full Trailblazer armor. Since the beginning of GW2, Necro has been one of the best DPS classes, but until the DPS meter came out it was not understood. All the other classes were there to Support the Necromancer. Things are now on the other foot. It is Necromancer turn to support everyone else.

 

With all due respect I want Condi Reaper squashed and Power Reaper optimal.

[haavik.8537]

I think the majority of us can agree that it's never too late to post ideas/suggestions for changes. Sure it's too late for suggestions to make it into the next patch release, but that doesn't mean we should stop posting our thoughts to let the community know how we feel about the current state of the necromancer as there will be future updates and maybe hotfixes.

[Zoltreez.6435]

> @haavik.8537 said:

> I think the majority of us can agree that it's never too late to post ideas/suggestions for changes. Sure it's too late for suggestions to make it into the next patch release, but that doesn't mean we should stop posting our thoughts to let the community know how we feel about the current state of the necromancer as there will be future updates and maybe hotfixes.

 

acting like devs actually care about our opinions and suggestions.....

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Shortsighted title. Our world cant be flipped we're necros - 24/7 flipzone right here.

[Starmiz.3298]

> @Meetshield.1756 said:

> Changes to the Reaper line have nothing to do with Scourge... So stop thinking they do.

 

We have never thought that. Yet you somehow argue that the Scourge damage must be neutered in order for the Reaper to shine.

 

 

[Meetshield.1756]

> @Starmiz.3298 said:

> > @Meetshield.1756 said:

> > Changes to the Reaper line have nothing to do with Scourge... So stop thinking they do.

>

> We have never thought that. Yet you somehow argue that the Scourge damage must be neutered in order for the Reaper to shine.

>

>

 

No I never said Scourge Damage needed to be Neutered. I could point out that in WvW right now its #3 in DPS consistently, on a Healer build... However if you trying to compare Raid DPS vs WvW DPS there will never be good comparison, because Raid mobs can't clear or don't clear conditions and thus they are just easier to DPS against.

 

But ask yourself, why should deathly chill be nerfed then? Is this because of PvP? Its already Nerfed in PVP has been since I came to the game. So then what else do you want? Reapers don't even run Reaper runes in PvP because Shouts that Chill do no damage due to existing nerfs...

[Meetshield.1756]

> @dceptaconroy.7928 said:

> Shortsighted title. Our world cant be flipped we're necros - 24/7 flipzone right here.

 

The Title was referring to the Day of the Week in Question when Patch is Next Tuesday, but I'm glad it gets attention :bleep_bloop:

[Meetshield.1756]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> So you spam F4, layer barriers and get lots of regen from Staff 2. OK.

>

> You claim it's better than others ... anyone else can confirm that? Seems to me it's worth qT to have a look at it if it's that's good.

 

I suppose qT would be the only ones to decide such things? I spent about 5 mins on the Raid build so don't expect it to be Gospel. Probably a Support Raid healer Scourge would go with a Power / Healing set like Zealots or Vigilant. But remember when you consider the healing offered from transfusion.

 

Its 292 + .3 Healing power .... X 9 , every 12 Seconds... So 2628 + 2.7 * Healing Power every 12 Seconds... So real question is based on the Boss you fight, how much healing do you really need? Necro could probably also Tank a boss with Marshall's gear ... So Tank / Heal / DPS, all we seem to care about is damage, but you don't see people kicking Chrono out of raids...

[Starmiz.3298]

> @Meetshield.1756 said:

> > @Starmiz.3298 said:

> > > @Meetshield.1756 said:

> > > Changes to the Reaper line have nothing to do with Scourge... So stop thinking they do.

> >

> > We have never thought that. Yet you somehow argue that the Scourge damage must be neutered in order for the Reaper to shine.

> >

> >

>

> No I never said Scourge Damage needed to be Neutered. I could point out that in WvW right now its #3 in DPS consistently, on a Healer build... However if you trying to compare Raid DPS vs WvW DPS there will never be good comparison, because Raid mobs can't clear or don't clear conditions and thus they are just easier to DPS against.

>

> But ask yourself, why should bitter chill be nerfed then? Is this because of PvP? Its already Nerfed in PVP has been since I came to the game. So then what else do you want? Reapers don't even run Reaper runes in PvP because Shouts that Chill do no damage due to existing nerfs...

 

Yet you strongly hint that Scourge is not supposed to high condi damage because you keep wanting to shoehorn it into a healer build. The high dps Scourges in wvw are not specced for healer. They are damage builds, unless the Curses traitline and trailblazer/viper statlines suddenly has become healer build. You somehow fail to see that an elite specialization could/should do more than 1 thing.

 

Why do you even bring bitter chill into this discussion? It has nothing to do with the Scourge.