Its too late to ask for Necro changes now.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

I just want to say, Scourge is brokenly OP in PvP and WvW,

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> I just want to say, Scourge is brokenly OP in PvP and WvW,

 

Brokenly OP means it is near impossible to beat. Though I agree it does need a tone down in these modes, Scourge has a very obvious and easy to exploit weakness. Range.

[Meetshield.1756]

> @Renita.7824 said:

> > @Meetshield.1756 said:

> > > @Obtena.7952 said:

> > > Still waiting for this amazing healer build ...

> > WvW Version :astonished:

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAW7PW6GMqPwI4Qp3THqJ1pHwGLAA-jVSDQB8RXg8eCAqc/BAcBA0iyPjdQAmnGBBpEUSq/QKA/mZB-w

> > Raid Healer Version :

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAW7PnE9Cl2gl9Cs9iluBTvnOUTqUfgRwha6BsxCAA-jFSDQBA4CAIJ1fU5+DYU5nxOIAlUJo8eCA8R3ApA8bmF-w

>

>

> I was so excited to read your suggested raid heal build, as I have been considering using my envoy armor to start a heal build, just waiting for the patch tomorrow before I invest resources. After reading it I wanted to ask what your reasoning behind not using monk runes was and how does the serpent punishment work out in practice cause it seems really lack luster to me compared to using might stacking utilities. I was going to ask how your life force regen was and might generation. Then I saw your post a few posts down and was so disappointed.

>

Sorry I had a lot going on that day, and I'm not a PVE raider by nature. The easy selection would be full Apothacaries, but then your Toughness might compete with the Tank.

So lets see what the Minimum and Maximum Healing capability is.

[Max Healing Build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBmQD7koXo6Gs0GwrGg9Gs0NYTPgNWAQvnOUTqUdgRQhC-jFSBQB0UJIAOIAZZ/hBpbAUq/ovnAwyU+hgLAQAgDg3fPA8+7v/+7vX3f/93f/93f/93LFgfzsA-w "gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBmQD7koXo6Gs0GwrGg9Gs0NYTPgNWAQvnOUTqUdgRQhC-jFSBQB0UJIAOIAZZ/hBpbAUq/ovnAwyU+hgLAQAgDg3fPA8+7v/+7vX3f/93f/93f/93LFgfzsA-w")

>! * Large Life Force Pool

>! * Minions to help with DPS and CC

>! * Some Might stacking assistance

>! * Very low DPS

>! * Transfusion every 12 seconds heals for : (933*1.42 = 1324 per tick) 11923.74

>! * Life from Death heals for : (3918*1.42) 5563 (348 per second)

>! * Roughly 1350 healing per second to party

>!

From the few raids I've been in this is overkill, far more healing than is needed, add 10k barriers, to handle the spike damage, and you will likely need far less healing for your raid. However the DPS of this build is likely close to that of Druid in full Cleric, and the Healing is likely lower than Druid, if you don't count the Barrier.

 

To increase the DPS you can go Power or Condi. Scourge, other than the Torch and Traits is balanced for Condi / Power being equal. (Dhumfire is not unique to Scourge) So if you go power you take Death Perception, and if Condi you take Dhumfire. You can gain Condi damage from Scourge Traits, and you can gain some power damage increase in Blood Magic with Vampiric and Quickening Thirst / Blood Bond. Soul Reaping also gives you a 5% power boost above 50% life force.

 

Soul Reaping is actually Optional, We can generate enough life force with Dagger, that we don't need Gluttony, so just changing this trait line out to Spite / Curses will increase our DPS from Weapon skills or utilities. However it will cost us 20% of our Healing and 20% of our profession mechanic dps. Is there another trait line that will increase our damage by 20% to account for this? Very Possibly. Curses seems like a good choice, it gives us more Crit based on number of conditions on a target, and it would be assumed the Boss / Golem would have max conditions, so that is 18% more crit? It also allows us to convert precision to condition damage, another DPS boost...

 

So you get somewhere like this. A compromise between damage and Healing.

[Compromise Build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRArY4fnE9CV3gV9Ce1A83gFhBbKGkDuB6119agNKAkAeAA-jhSAQBHSzgXV/BtK/AwDAIg6BarSQ/dEA0wBBoL7PItTAQAgDgxLezbew7v/+7v/ed/93f/93f/93fvUA+NzC-e "Compromise")

 

This would allow you to generate life force on one weapon set and then alternate to the Scepter for condi dmg, and increased duration, but all previous necro DPS benchmarks were including the Scepter 50% on top of a close to 100% duration build for 150% condi duration. Necro is balanced around this expected duration, I actually think they messed up not allowing the Shade skills to benefit from this, as it throws the whole balancing of Scourge off by allowing the other elite specializations to gain this benefit, and scourge not. So the Dev's would need to increase the Condi or Power damage of Shade strikes and more specificallly the F5 pulses, to allow you to straddle the fence between damage and healing. But any buffs to those would then make the DPS scourge more preferred as a DPS class.

 

If you build into Condi and Healing, you would need duration to make a Viable DPS build. You could likely make sacrifices in Healing output and get away with lower than ideal condition damage, but without duration you will not achieve high stacking of conditions and thus never achieve 20k bleed ticks for example, which is required to get respectable Condi DPS numbers. I suppose if there was a Condition Damage / Healing / Expertise set, you could get much closer to good damage numbers without losing too much healing, and would sacrifice your power numbers from Vipers, but the condi weapons are generally lower power scale and wouldn't be hurt that much. You might lose 2k DPS from your power numbers, but maintain the 25-30k DPS from condi. Necro already has poor power modifiers, so it makes sense to focus on the Condi side.

 

And that is the the second Nail in the PVE coffin. No good stat set that matches Scourge for healing. Marshall's lacks ferocity, and subs in Condition damage. So power is nerfed and what conditions you do get have no duration. Too many of the sets include toughness which is useless except to the Tank. And any stat sets that make viable stat balancing possible will simply also buff Druid, so we are back to the original issue.

[TheLastNobody.8319]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> I just want to say, Scourge is brokenly OP in PvP and WvW,

 

I can imagine it’s because of the boon to condi conversion, along with the fact it has a near constant point presence with the shades. And considering so many classes rely on boons for surviving and just fart them out on a passive effect on attacks/traits, it’s not hard to figure out why it would be strong or at least INCREDIBLY ANNOYING to play against.

 

I would think a thief though could pretty well contain a scourge.