Why can mesmers insta-down people?

[chronometria.3708]

Poor deadeye. Mesmer does it such much better.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

2 words:

 

Thief classes

[Mayama.1854]

Playing power mirage in WvW for some time now. Its shatter mesmer on speed.

You have way better clone generation, more ports and you can dodge while bursting which negates half the tools to negate the damage.

 

> @mulzi.8273 said:

> on a related note, thank you for posting the videos and whatnot. this morning i've run across at least 8 different kiddies who have to use the latest troll/cheese mesmer build due to their lack of success with any legitimate builds/classes.

 

Doing consistant and reliable burst with the greatsword > port into shatter combo requires practice.

You ran into mesmers that played power shatter for quite some time.

Down talking others to hide your own ineqatility is a common tactic to deal with loses, I get it.

 

 

[Sandzibar.5134]

> @Mayama.1854 said:

> Doing consistant and reliable burst with the greatsword > port into shatter combo requires practice.

 

:toystory:

 

Macro's. Macro's everywhere.

 

 

 

 

[apharma.3741]

> @Sandzibar.5134 said:

> > @Mayama.1854 said:

> > Doing consistant and reliable burst with the greatsword > port into shatter combo requires practice.

>

> :toystory:

>

> Macro's. Macro's everywhere.

>

>

>

>

 

I don’t use macros and I can burst you down in the blink of an eye, I will admit it takes about half an hour to get warmed up nowadays but the combo is practise and practise. Heaven help you if you actually fight someone on the caliber of Helseth when he was I his prime, the combos he was doing were incredibly fast, we’re talking about 0.125s reaction time where he would shatter inside phase retreat to get both the clone shatter damage as well as himself in 2 places.

 

We also know he wasn’t using macros because he did a lot of this stuff at LAN where you would be disqualified if you did and they checked all the equipment when it was set up.

[Sandzibar.5134]

It was more a commentary on how some unscrupulous people use macros to get around the whole practice thing... and jump straight to no brain 1 key insta-popping people.

 

[EvilSardine.9635]

> @Flarre.4850 said:

> Are people complaining about something existing since years.

> Mesmer burst is predicable if you are not aware you will die like against all others bursty spec.

> I can kill you in few seconds with thief,guardian,warrior,ele,ranger,necro,engineer,rev and mesmer if build properly!

 

Nope. The issue is that you can be standing out in the open and you are insta downed by a mesmer with zero warning or animation with the copy paste build everyone is using.

 

Any other class specced for massive damage can be counter played which makes the game fun. Mesmer is the only class that currently has ZERO warning of 20k+ damage incoming all at once. If you think this crutch should exist in this game then that makes you a bad mesmer.

 

 

[meri.9187]

One shotting people from stealth as a mesmer has always been cheesy but it's so obvious ANet's not going to do anything about it as they haven't for the past few years. May I remind you of the June 2015 patch where Mesmers became able to run a shatter build WITH PU as well as gaining baseline Illusionary Persona, or the August 2017 patch when they decided to add Superiority Complex? I don't care how glassy the mesmer is, you shouldn't be able to hit Mind Wracks for 8k on the regular while also being able to stealth, invuln, and slip out easily. For some reason, ANet continues to think that mesmer's burst damage is lacking, and they continue to tack on random 15% to 25% buffs like Superiority Complex. With Mirage out, the class is even stronger with the ability to kite for days.

[Svarty.8019]

Mesmer has been darling class since GW1.

[VaaCrow.3076]

> @Svarty.8019 said:

> Mesmer has been darling class since GW1.

 

it really has not. you don't have a keen eye for balance i see.

[Turk.5460]

> @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > @Kyon.9735 said:

> > Let's be real. **It isn't hard to learn skill combinations as people make it sound.** What's harder is getting the opportunity to use them and it's not that hard if you have access to stealth and your bursts have generally low cooldowns.

>

> That's exactly how thief works, yet Thieves still get their Free-Pass to quickly 100-0 people. Worse: They have one of the most slipery Specs (Daredevil) that allow them to not be punished when they fail. Mesmers never had such thing [snip for context]

 

Ok lol what? It sounds like you are referring to disengage when saying Daredevil is not punished when they "fail." The same variety of Mesmer builds have always had similar disengage to the equal variety of Thief builds. If you are not talking about disengage, and you are instead talking about misplaying their defenses in combat - and still not being punished - then you are very, very, very, very, very, very, veryveryvery wrong.

[Jeknar.6184]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > > @Kyon.9735 said:

> > > Let's be real. **It isn't hard to learn skill combinations as people make it sound.** What's harder is getting the opportunity to use them and it's not that hard if you have access to stealth and your bursts have generally low cooldowns.

> >

> > That's exactly how thief works, yet Thieves still get their Free-Pass to quickly 100-0 people. Worse: They have one of the most slipery Specs (Daredevil) that allow them to not be punished when they fail. Mesmers never had such thing [snip for context]

>

> Ok lol what? It sounds like you are referring to disengage when saying Daredevil is not punished when they "fail." The same variety of Mesmer builds have always had similar disengage to the equal variety of Thief builds. If you are not talking about disengage, and you are instead talking about misplaying their defenses in combat - and still not being punished - then you are very, very, very, very, very, very, veryveryvery wrong.

 

Yes, I'm talking about disengage, but I really don't recal having the same escape capabilities as a daredevil before mirage, unless i'm running portal (Maximum lul) to GTFO when everything fail. And remember: If I'm engaging from stealth and blinking in to combo, I don't really have these skills avaible to get out.

[Turk.5460]

Please don't make a general statement, then respond to a general reply (to said general statement) using build-specific examples. You are right in your build-specific example, partially, considering any half-decent decent Mesmer can A) Stealth if fail (especially true if core) or B ) Cycle defenses if fail until disengage is ready (especially true if chrono).

[Jeknar.6184]

Cycle defense as a chrono with all the unblockables flying around? Good luck with that my dude. Besides, if I'm running torch and a greatsword (The weapons used on the stealth burst engage) I don't even have a Shield equipped.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Inoki.6048 said:

> Let's face it - this expansion is a total failure.

>

> Mesmers that are inescapable - can port 9 times in a row and stealth almost as much as thieves while stealth should remain primarily a thief mechanic, perform a constant daze combo that is impossible to counter since during daze all skills are non-functional; perma-damage-immune warriors, twice-touch-kill condi necros with super high toughness and vitality pool and then, ofc, snipers. This all began with the introduction of HoT specs, those were a joke too but this,

>

> this is by far the worst joke ever.

 

What even are you going on about with mesmers here? Chrono has by far the most stealth spam out of core mesmer/chrono/mirage due solely to CS (being able to double up on MI is amazing), and mirage brought no stealth at all to mesmer. So stealth spam, even though its a real thing (from both thieves and mesmers mind you), is nothing new to mesmer with PoF.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @VaaCrow.3076 said:

> > @Svarty.8019 said:

> > Mesmer has been darling class since GW1.

>

> it really has not. you don't have a keen eye for balance i see.

 

Mesmer was one of my darling in Gw1. Here is a tid bit info about Mesmer in Gw1

 

**Memser**

 

"The Mesmer is an expert in indirect damage and control, specializing in turning the opponents tools on themselves: attacks end up damaging the attacker, spells interrupt the caster and companions, and hexes are stolen to be turned against the opposing team. Mesmers can also influence the enemy's actions by restricting, delaying, or preventing attacks or use of skills. Players wishing to create an effective mesmer must therefore become experts in the other professions.

Because of the steeper learning curve, many players are unfamiliar with the profession; in PvE, it can be hard for mesmers to be accepted into pick-up groups. The better players know, however, that even moderately skilled mesmers can turn battles quickly and decisively in the party's favor. Mesmers are particularly devastating in PvP and nearly every GvG will have at least one"

 

"The mesmer's primary attribute is Fast Casting, which reduces activation time of both spells and signets. Their primary base armor provides an AR of 60, with +10 energy and +2 energy regeneration; they begin with a base energy of 30, regenerating at 4 pips. Many of their damage-dealing skills ignore armor, allowing the mesmer to devastate hardened Warriors and enchantment-protected Elementalists, as well as bypassing some of the innate protections of bosses and hard mode-buffed foes"

 

" **The patron deity of Mesmers is Lyssa** "

 

**Lyssa**

 

"Lyssa (sometimes only called Lyss) is the twin goddess of beauty and illusion. She is the patroness goddess of Mesmers and Assassins. She is also associated with Energy, Chaos and the attributes of Energy Storage and Mysticism.

The twin goddesses of beauty and illusion, many a spell caster has fallen under the charms of these two, making it easy for them to choose to specialize in the mesmeric arts. Lyssa is usually portrayed in her natural state; a pair of twain, intertwined goddesses, back to back, no illusions or glamours involved. There are stories of young men stopping to gaze longingly at statues of the beautiful goddesses, only to forget themselves and die of thirst while simply looking on"

 

( **I want Mesmer back from Gw1, not this Artificial Mesmer in Gw2** )

[Roxanne.6140]

Mesmers being broken in 1v1 combat is probably the least of ANet's problems when it comes to balance because 1v1 is not entirely in the context of wvw. They will spend most of the time running around like a piece of glass (I just don't believe there is 100% stealth time) and be next to useless in large scale combat.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @Roxanne.6140 said:

> Mesmers being broken in 1v1 combat is probably the least of ANet's problems when it comes to balance because 1v1 is not entirely in the context of wvw. They will spend most of the time running around like a piece of glass (I just don't believe there is 100% stealth time) and be next to useless in large scale combat.

 

2 years ago: mesmer were able to perma stealth. Mesmer now can perma evade like its counterpart thief. I guess Anet rather want to keep it this way to keep their two favorites classes similar.

 

You mentioned Mesmer being the least of Anet's problems when it comes to balance because 1v1 not being entirely in the context of wvw: no surprise here.

 

---May i also mention mesmer counterpart thief also being broken for 5 years--

[Roxanne.6140]

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > @Roxanne.6140 said:

> > Mesmers being broken in 1v1 combat is probably the least of ANet's problems when it comes to balance because 1v1 is not entirely in the context of wvw. They will spend most of the time running around like a piece of glass (I just don't believe there is 100% stealth time) and be next to useless in large scale combat.

>

> 2 years ago: mesmer were able to perma stealth. Mesmer now can perma evade like its counterpart thief. I guess Anet rather want to keep it this way to keep their two favorites classes similar.

>

> You mentioned Mesmer being the least of Anet's problems when it comes to balance because 1v1 not being entirely in the context of wvw: no surprise here.

>

> ---May i also mention mesmer counterpart thief also being broken for 5 years--

 

We are probably talking about 1 percent of the population making things unfun by running cheesy shet builds and KO-ing a person down. But in the larger scale of things, such builds are rare and the average thief will suck. fact.

[Jeknar.6184]

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> their two favorites classes

 

Have you ever heard of our lord and savior Warrior?

 

I wouldn't belive Mesmer is one of their "favorites" seeing how they always kill every build that isn't a full shatter mesmer and keep pushing us toward the crap thief gameplay. I wouldn't be surprised if they killed boon chrono next (Which is kinda dead already with all the Scourges and Spellbreakers around). At that point I would just completely drop Mesmer and just play Holosmith which is much more fun that being a one-trick one-shot pony.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > their two favorites classes

>

> Have you ever heard of our lord and savior Spellbreaker?

>

> I wouldn't belive Mesmer is one of their "favorites" seeing how they always kill every build that isn't a full shatter mesmer and keep pushing us toward the kitten thief gameplay. I wouldn't be surprised if they killed boon chrono next (Which is kinda dead already with all the Scourges and Spellbreakers around).

 

Jekmar, ok i'll break my silence on Warrior/Spellbreaker. I've been cautious to say anything against warrior because they are the Hero profession in many games. Warrior in gw2 are seen this way as well, being looked upon as Tanks.

 

Especially in wvw: warriors are very crucial class in outcome in fights: Comamnders in zerges as one example.

 

I've been watching a lot of Spellbreaker streamings and i really tried to keep my critique about that class to myself. So i am proud to finally come forward to share my crituque about warrior/spellbreaker.

 

Actually, i want to sum it all in one sentence: Spellbreaker seem to defy Risk+Reward to be competitive.

 

-side note: Spellbreaker hardly ever uses its healing signet which should Never go unnoticed by the design/balance team. This is not new because core warrior has been getting away with it for a very long time.

 

Getting back to warrior/spellbreaker not being competitive: i'm all for forcing spellbreaker to take risks than be rewarded, Even if it takes removing skills. traits, mechanics and designs...whatever it takes, i'm all for it.

 

**No Class/s/Profession/s Should Be Excused Or To Be Given The Get Out Of The Jail Card To Not Take Risks** that includes our lord and savior Spellbreaker : )

[Jeknar.6184]

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> Especially in wvw: warriors are very crucial class in outcome in fights: Comamnders in zerges as one example.

 

Most Commanders are Guardians, not Warriors btw...

[takatsu.9416]

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > @Roxanne.6140 said:

> > Mesmers being broken in 1v1 combat is

> 2 years ago: mesmer were able to perma stealth. Mesmer now can perma evade like its counterpart thief. I guess Anet rather want to keep it this way to keep their two favorites classes similar.

>

> You mentioned Mesmer being the least of Anet's problems when it comes to balance because 1v1 not being entirely in the context of wvw: no surprise here.

>

> ---May i also mention mesmer counterpart thief also being broken for 5 years--

 

Where is this perma evade mesmer build? I am playing mirage and the need to sometimes choose between offensive or defensive use of the dodge and timing and all our cd skills and stealth still leaves room where I am pushed to my limit in fights and really running low on survivability options with a decent opponent. Are you a decent opponent? I mean if you're going to get burst down by a power mesmer in a couple of seconds and see them evade a few things you'd think thats perma evade? As of yet those burst combo moments arent very often. Most experienced players on the field have pretty tough builds, sustain and pressure. I don't often run across players that bad in my match ups. And building for perma evade for real probably makes you lose out on a lot of other things.

[Coulter.2315]

> @Burnfall.9573 said:

> Here is a 2 years old video:2015 where a popular passionate mesmer steamer 1 shotting a thief 15 times. Lord Helseth completely loses his mind of how easy he was able to 1 shot the thief in seconds. That's right.... in seconds for the 16 time leaving lord helseth in the state of disbelief.

>

> If it took lord helseth seconds to 1 shot players: imagine what it will take as Reaper Alim stated, highly for inexperienced and or immature gamers to do the same?

>

> As many also stated, there is no way to differentiate pro players from inexperience player., i completely agree.

>

> that is disheartening and need an urgency to change for the health of pvp+wvw. Anyhow, here is the video...

>

>

>

 

You have no idea what happened, do you..

 

He used distortion to reflect the thief sbow ambush, bouncing it back and immobilizing the thief still in stealth, watching where the arrow went he then noscope mirrorbladed that location getting a shatter combo & mind stab on an invisible immob'd target. This was extremely lucky and skillful which is why he was so excited.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @Coulter.2315 said:

> > @Burnfall.9573 said:

> > Here is a 2 years old video:2015 where a popular passionate mesmer steamer 1 shotting a thief 15 times. Lord Helseth completely loses his mind of how easy he was able to 1 shot the thief in seconds. That's right.... in seconds for the 16 time leaving lord helseth in the state of disbelief.

> >

> > If it took lord helseth seconds to 1 shot players: imagine what it will take as Reaper Alim stated, highly for inexperienced and or immature gamers to do the same?

> >

> > As many also stated, there is no way to differentiate pro players from inexperience player., i completely agree.

> >

> > that is disheartening and need an urgency to change for the health of pvp+wvw. Anyhow, here is the video...

> >

> >

> >

>

> You have no idea what happened, do you..

>

> He used distortion to reflect the thief sbow ambush, bouncing it back and immobilizing the thief still in stealth, watching where the arrow went he then noscope mirrorbladed that location getting a shatter combo & mind stab on an invisible immob'd target. This was extremely lucky and skillful which is why he was so excited.

 

see page 1

 

actually, here is a most recent video of mesmer/mirage 1 shotting

 

(once again, like its counterpart thief: bad design/broken)

- No 'extreme luck' or skill required

+ knowing rotations is only required than build auto-play/auto-bot for you