Burnfall.9573 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @takatsu.9416 said: > > @Burnfall.9573 said: > > > @Roxanne.6140 said: > > > Mesmers being broken in 1v1 combat is > > 2 years ago: mesmer were able to perma stealth. Mesmer now can perma evade like its counterpart thief. I guess Anet rather want to keep it this way to keep their two favorites classes similar. > > > > You mentioned Mesmer being the least of Anet's problems when it comes to balance because 1v1 not being entirely in the context of wvw: no surprise here. > > > > ---May i also mention mesmer counterpart thief also being broken for 5 years-- > > Where is this perma evade mesmer build? I am playing mirage and the need to sometimes choose between offensive or defensive use of the dodge and timing and all our cd skills and stealth still leaves room where I am pushed to my limit in fights and really running low on survivability options with a decent opponent. Are you a decent opponent? I mean if you're going to get burst down by a power mesmer in a couple of seconds and see them evade a few things you'd think thats perma evade? As of yet those burst combo moments arent very often. Most experienced players on the field have pretty tough builds, sustain and pressure. I don't often run across players that bad in my match ups. And building for perma evade for real probably makes you lose out on a lot of other things. > @takatsu.9416 said: > > @Burnfall.9573 said: > > > @Roxanne.6140 said: > > > Mesmers being broken in 1v1 combat is > > 2 years ago: mesmer were able to perma stealth. Mesmer now can perma evade like its counterpart thief. I guess Anet rather want to keep it this way to keep their two favorites classes similar. > > > > You mentioned Mesmer being the least of Anet's problems when it comes to balance because 1v1 not being entirely in the context of wvw: no surprise here. > > > > ---May i also mention mesmer counterpart thief also being broken for 5 years-- > > Where is this perma evade mesmer build? I am playing mirage and the need to sometimes choose between offensive or defensive use of the dodge and timing and all our cd skills and stealth still leaves room where I am pushed to my limit in fights and really running low on survivability options with a decent opponent. Are you a decent opponent? I mean if you're going to get burst down by a power mesmer in a couple of seconds and see them evade a few things you'd think thats perma evade? As of yet those burst combo moments arent very often. Most experienced players on the field have pretty tough builds, sustain and pressure. I don't often run across players that bad in my match ups. And building for perma evade for real probably makes you lose out on a lot of other things. Anet is aware of the build: if they do not address its counterpart thief-ghost thief without using traps build in today's balance patch, i will post it here and in /reddit (I'm undecided if i should post a unkillable mesmer build that's been in existence since Hot: i may reserve my judgment against Mesmer... it was my second love profession>GW1) **My judgement are against any1 shotting-not excluding other classs including->>Ele/Weaver+Warrior/Spellbreaker<<-** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaaCrow.3076 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Burnfall.9573 said: > > @VaaCrow.3076 said: > > > @Svarty.8019 said: > > > Mesmer has been darling class since GW1. > > > > it really has not. you don't have a keen eye for balance i see. > > Mesmer was one of my darling in Gw1. Here is a tid bit info about Mesmer in Gw1 > > **Memser** > > "The Mesmer is an expert in indirect damage and control, specializing in turning the opponents tools on themselves: attacks end up damaging the attacker, spells interrupt the caster and companions, and hexes are stolen to be turned against the opposing team. Mesmers can also influence the enemy's actions by restricting, delaying, or preventing attacks or use of skills. Players wishing to create an effective mesmer must therefore become experts in the other professions. > Because of the steeper learning curve, many players are unfamiliar with the profession; in PvE, it can be hard for mesmers to be accepted into pick-up groups. The better players know, however, that even moderately skilled mesmers can turn battles quickly and decisively in the party's favor. Mesmers are particularly devastating in PvP and nearly every GvG will have at least one" > > "The mesmer's primary attribute is Fast Casting, which reduces activation time of both spells and signets. Their primary base armor provides an AR of 60, with +10 energy and +2 energy regeneration; they begin with a base energy of 30, regenerating at 4 pips. Many of their damage-dealing skills ignore armor, allowing the mesmer to devastate hardened Warriors and enchantment-protected Elementalists, as well as bypassing some of the innate protections of bosses and hard mode-buffed foes" > > " **The patron deity of Mesmers is Lyssa** " > > **Lyssa** > > "Lyssa (sometimes only called Lyss) is the twin goddess of beauty and illusion. She is the patroness goddess of Mesmers and Assassins. She is also associated with Energy, Chaos and the attributes of Energy Storage and Mysticism. > The twin goddesses of beauty and illusion, many a spell caster has fallen under the charms of these two, making it easy for them to choose to specialize in the mesmeric arts. Lyssa is usually portrayed in her natural state; a pair of twain, intertwined goddesses, back to back, no illusions or glamours involved. There are stories of young men stopping to gaze longingly at statues of the beautiful goddesses, only to forget themselves and die of thirst while simply looking on" > > ( **I want Mesmer back from Gw1, not this Artificial Mesmer in Gw2** ) it is a different game, it is what it is here. You want gw1 classes, go play gw1. Stop trying to have this class changed into some silly gimmick that will never be used just because you are having trouble fighting it. it is a l2p issue. Being able to 1 shot is a valuable tool in group combat, and if you MISS your burst thats it game over 90 % of the time you die, it is a HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD playstyle, Just because it doesn't appeal to YOU doesn't mean it should not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaaCrow.3076 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @VaaCrow.3076 said: > > @Burnfall.9573 said: > > > @VaaCrow.3076 said: > > > > @Svarty.8019 said: > > > > Mesmer has been darling class since GW1. > > > > > > it really has not. you don't have a keen eye for balance i see. > > > > Mesmer was one of my darling in Gw1. Here is a tid bit info about Mesmer in Gw1 > > > > **Memser** > > > > "The Mesmer is an expert in indirect damage and control, specializing in turning the opponents tools on themselves: attacks end up damaging the attacker, spells interrupt the caster and companions, and hexes are stolen to be turned against the opposing team. Mesmers can also influence the enemy's actions by restricting, delaying, or preventing attacks or use of skills. Players wishing to create an effective mesmer must therefore become experts in the other professions. > > Because of the steeper learning curve, many players are unfamiliar with the profession; in PvE, it can be hard for mesmers to be accepted into pick-up groups. The better players know, however, that even moderately skilled mesmers can turn battles quickly and decisively in the party's favor. Mesmers are particularly devastating in PvP and nearly every GvG will have at least one" > > > > "The mesmer's primary attribute is Fast Casting, which reduces activation time of both spells and signets. Their primary base armor provides an AR of 60, with +10 energy and +2 energy regeneration; they begin with a base energy of 30, regenerating at 4 pips. Many of their damage-dealing skills ignore armor, allowing the mesmer to devastate hardened Warriors and enchantment-protected Elementalists, as well as bypassing some of the innate protections of bosses and hard mode-buffed foes" > > > > " **The patron deity of Mesmers is Lyssa** " > > > > **Lyssa** > > > > "Lyssa (sometimes only called Lyss) is the twin goddess of beauty and illusion. She is the patroness goddess of Mesmers and Assassins. She is also associated with Energy, Chaos and the attributes of Energy Storage and Mysticism. > > The twin goddesses of beauty and illusion, many a spell caster has fallen under the charms of these two, making it easy for them to choose to specialize in the mesmeric arts. Lyssa is usually portrayed in her natural state; a pair of twain, intertwined goddesses, back to back, no illusions or glamours involved. There are stories of young men stopping to gaze longingly at statues of the beautiful goddesses, only to forget themselves and die of thirst while simply looking on" > > > > ( **I want Mesmer back from Gw1, not this Artificial Mesmer in Gw2** ) > > it is a different game, it is what it is here. You want gw1 classes, go play gw1. Stop trying to have this class changed into some silly gimmick that will never be used just because you are having trouble fighting it. it is a l2p issue. I know its a different game, believe me, very very different game by a longshot. You say silly gimmick?? which mesmer you speak of? One who has learning curve requiring mechanical skill input or one who has bad design with broken builds /auto-botingt, /auto skill spamming play for them? -I'm sorry VaaCrow, but I beg to differ- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Dude... do you even watch the videos you post? There’s a reason “one shot” builds work and it’s not because the build is OP. It’s because the person running it is constantly selecting people to burst based by class. I saw very few players running heavy in that class, but there was a lot of thief and necros being bursted that it’s painfully obvious they had no clue how to play the class other than spam keys. These videos you’re so proudly throwing out there are horrible to draw conclusions from because they are edited to ONLY show the good stuff. Ask around, most people that do these videos have to play for 6-8 hours just to get five minutes worth of “one shot” videos. And we kept coming back to this- 1v1 and roaming is not a supported style of gameplay. Anet has told us this multiple times in the past. Every fight there and in the weaver video I posted was small group fights or 1v1. That’s because those builds are not suited for that style of game play. Not to mention that if you watch, not even carefully mind you, that once they blow their load they have to constantly kite until cool downs are up and when they are kiting no body is trying to pressure them, they again just spam the keyboard. In short if you want to impress me with one shot videos get decent players that understand the mechanics and see what happens. Not people wearing dps gear running to the Zerg or trying to stay near towers so they can run back inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconori.7235 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Shirlias.8104 said: > > @Grebcol.5984 said: > > Funny that people now complain about 1Shottie Mesmer because that build exist since months. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEOk2Wtj95I > > In WvWvW it is even more lul and it getting more popular now. > > Here the one i think most saw > > > > First video thief wearing zerk instead of marauder. > Cleary legit. > > Wearing zerk and have 17k hp?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > Dude... do you even watch the videos you post? There’s a reason “one shot” builds work and it’s not because the build is OP. It’s because the person running it is constantly selecting people to burst based by class. I saw very few players running heavy in that class, but there was a lot of thief and necros being bursted that it’s painfully obvious they had no clue how to play the class other than spam keys. > These videos you’re so proudly throwing out there are horrible to draw conclusions from because they are edited to ONLY show the good stuff. Ask around, most people that do these videos have to play for 6-8 hours just to get five minutes worth of “one shot” videos. > And we kept coming back to this- 1v1 and roaming is not a supported style of gameplay. Anet has told us this multiple times in the past. Every fight there and in the weaver video I posted was small group fights or 1v1. That’s because those builds are not suited for that style of game play. Not to mention that if you watch, not even carefully mind you, that once they blow their load they have to constantly kite until cool downs are up and when they are kiting no body is trying to pressure them, they again just spam the keyboard. > In short if you want to impress me with one shot videos get decent players that understand the mechanics and see what happens. Not people wearing dps gear running to the Zerg or trying to stay near towers so they can run back inside. > > This sums it up perfectly! All I see in these videos are handpicked fights against incompetent opponents aka zerglings. I got attacked by anshatter Mirage last night, he did ~2k damage before I put him down 6 secs later, ooor did he put himself down with those 5k confusion ticks? :smirk: The spec is extremely unreliable and is the definition of high risk no reward vs any bunker/gamebreaker/firebrand with Basic understanding of game mechanics and a stun break. All those complaining must be MEME Deadeyes crying “Wolf!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 > @Burnfall.9573 said: > > @Coulter.2315 said: > > > @Burnfall.9573 said: > > > Here is a 2 years old video:2015 where a popular passionate mesmer steamer 1 shotting a thief 15 times. Lord Helseth completely loses his mind of how easy he was able to 1 shot the thief in seconds. That's right.... in seconds for the 16 time leaving lord helseth in the state of disbelief. > > > > > > If it took lord helseth seconds to 1 shot players: imagine what it will take as Reaper Alim stated, highly for inexperienced and or immature gamers to do the same? > > > > > > As many also stated, there is no way to differentiate pro players from inexperience player., i completely agree. > > > > > > that is disheartening and need an urgency to change for the health of pvp+wvw. Anyhow, here is the video... > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have no idea what happened, do you.. > > > > He used distortion to reflect the thief sbow ambush, bouncing it back and immobilizing the thief still in stealth, watching where the arrow went he then noscope mirrorbladed that location getting a shatter combo & mind stab on an invisible immob'd target. This was extremely lucky and skillful which is why he was so excited. > > see page 1 > > actually, here is a most recent video of mesmer/mirage 1 shotting > > (once again, like its counterpart thief: bad design/broken) > - No 'extreme luck' or skill required > + knowing rotations is only required than build auto-play/auto-bot for you > > > lol @ 1:56 on this video. Then more lol @ the person some posts back who thinks it takes 7 actions and any semblance of skill to pull this off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithwall.8201 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 you can 1shot bad fulzerk deadeyes with every single class in this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 > @Turk.5460 said: > > @Burnfall.9573 said: > > > @Coulter.2315 said: > > > > @Burnfall.9573 said: > > > > Here is a 2 years old video:2015 where a popular passionate mesmer steamer 1 shotting a thief 15 times. Lord Helseth completely loses his mind of how easy he was able to 1 shot the thief in seconds. That's right.... in seconds for the 16 time leaving lord helseth in the state of disbelief. > > > > > > > > If it took lord helseth seconds to 1 shot players: imagine what it will take as Reaper Alim stated, highly for inexperienced and or immature gamers to do the same? > > > > > > > > As many also stated, there is no way to differentiate pro players from inexperience player., i completely agree. > > > > > > > > that is disheartening and need an urgency to change for the health of pvp+wvw. Anyhow, here is the video... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have no idea what happened, do you.. > > > > > > He used distortion to reflect the thief sbow ambush, bouncing it back and immobilizing the thief still in stealth, watching where the arrow went he then noscope mirrorbladed that location getting a shatter combo & mind stab on an invisible immob'd target. This was extremely lucky and skillful which is why he was so excited. > > > > see page 1 > > > > actually, here is a most recent video of mesmer/mirage 1 shotting > > > > (once again, like its counterpart thief: bad design/broken) > > - No 'extreme luck' or skill required > > + knowing rotations is only required than build auto-play/auto-bot for you > > > > > > > > lol @ 1:56 on this video. Then more lol @ the person some posts back who thinks it takes 7 actions and any semblance of skill to pull this off. Yes, full zerk players do tend to die to 3 hits from most things. I also liked the one shot on the scourge that took a minute, kiting and nearly resulted in the mesmer dying, that one shot from stealth was so good I think Helseth will be doing a pro level analysis of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerby.1069 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @mulzi.8273 said: > on a related note, thank you for posting the videos and whatnot. this morning i've run across at least 8 different kiddies who have to use the latest troll/cheese mesmer build due to their lack of success with any legitimate builds/classes. Legitimate build? What? You must be pretty horrible at this mode and used to going on angry spats if you feel that way. The goal of the game is to win, not sit there calling the other guy a pleb for not doing things the way you do them. Learn to play. I don't see those people playing on the forums complaining, they are ingame winning while you sit here doing that work for them. You are angry cause you are losing so much. There's other people out there who are fine with losing, it doesn't make them angry. So either take a page from their book, or start winning. Calling them kiddies.....ya, the salt is palpable. Get a build that can deal with cheesey classes. This is wvsw, you can't run your pvp build here and expect to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takatsu.9416 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Lol everyone in wvw is running a cheese build something of sorts based on meta which is about cranking out the best numbers they can either for big damage or unkillable etc whatever style they're going for, to succeed not just be defeated each time. I was running a custom build but that wasn't even competitive with the current meta and balance really. My play skill can keep me alive but without building for the big damage, it wasn't providing enough pressure to actually turn the outcome of a fight or even make people back off or play more defensively and be less in my face. Going with the hard hitting cheese build allows me to be viable on the field. That's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 There's many ways to deal with the one shot mesmer cheese. If he stealths to bomb you from stealth, stealth 1sec or so after he went stealth. You will outstealth him and he won't be able to stealth bomb, making it easier to dodge the burst. If you do not have access to stealth, you can LoS or port/leap away so the Mirror Blade shatter fails to do a proper combo (won't work if the mes has blink, tho). If you have some evade skills, you can time them ~2sec after the mes went into stealth. On my mes i generally use blurred frenzy or stealth to mess up their stealth bomb. On ranger, the sword 2 is great at messing up the shatter (you can also go stealth as a drood if you know they'll be bombing you from stealth). If you don't have these options, be ready to stun break as soon as you're stunned and dodge. The gimmick one shot mes build(s) reminds me of D/D thief back in 2012... that was sooo fun to play against lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmau.9781 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 probably beacouse anet have no idea about what they are doing and they just try random stuffs creating even more chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeroBoron.7285 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Well it is like it is for 2years maybe? 24k maybe with the burstcombo when you have set up every illusion next to you and each crits with mind wrack followed by everything else. Check out the video poster before, try to play it yourself. Usually this is avoidable. 30% DMG boost comes from targets don't use a skill. 25% boost from crits against targets that are stunned or below 50%. So stability and spamming autoattack already result in like 50% DMG loss. Pick up balanced stance auto proc that will help as well. Endure pain trigger should help as well, as long as you don't drop from above threshold to 0 with one hit at least elexier s doesn't proc then, but yes is also something that should keep you at 25% and trigger its effect then ? Also mes doesn't have that much invis that they/we can camp permanent invis. Just be ready to switch to defense when you see one going invis. The mirror blade without invis is obvious and has a 0,75sec cast time. aside there are some macrokiddies out there pulling of that combo with quickness in like 0,2sec. Can't really help that either. But at least between distortion and mind wreck shatters go on 0,2 sec CD. Also the time between mirror blade cast port and hit, then wait for illusion spawn before using your shatter needs a lot of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaaCrow.3076 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Can the mods move this to the mesmer subforum please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malafaia.8903 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @OriOri.8724 said: > I don't mind one shot builds existing, under some conditions: > > * They shouldn't be able to start, or even land their entire burst, in stealth > * They shouldn't be able to do it at long range. 900 range would be the absolute maximum a one shot build can hit you from > * Complete glass cannons. All gear, traits, and skills devoted towards one shotting people. You shouldn't be able to take passive proccing defensive traits and still have a one shot build. You shouldn't be able to take a defensive traitline and still one shot people. Period > * You should have limited disengage ability. If your burst fails you should pay for it, by not being able to disengage easily, or at all. This is where thiefs break these conditions more often than not. > > If a class meets all of those, then I don't have a problem with one shot builds, because if they make a mistake, they pay for it. This is great! What really upsets me is thieves ganking you, failing, disengaging, ganking, failing, disengaging... The only one at risk is me. Sometimes i kill them, sometimes i die, but i'm always the one at most risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @ilmau.9781 said: > probably beacouse anet have no idea about what they are doing and they just try random stuffs creating even more chaos they do have an idea about what they are doing, oh believe me. What they need to do is to change their idea of balance philosophy . (I would love to elaborate on what it is but they will silence me> infract me for speaking the truth again) Until this happen, Let Us Embrace Chaos With All Of Its Hell With Open Arms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirin.7306 Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 i have been globaled by mesmers and i have toughness and vitality on my gear. Something is definately up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K THEN.5162 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 > @Kirin.7306 said: > i have been globaled by mesmers and i have toughness and vitality on my gear. Something is definately up. Shhhh please don't tell anet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmau.9781 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 nahh guys you do not understand, problem is reaper shroud, was so broken it had to be nerfed, and deathly chill too, it is not an problem if there are around instakill classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 Seen a few of these people running the one shot mesmer build, it’s fun schooling them firstly how predictable they’re being and secondly on how it’s really done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeknar.6184 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 > @ilmau.9781 said: > nahh guys you do not understand, problem is reaper shroud, was so broken it had to be nerfed, and deathly chill too, it is not an problem if there are around instakill classes To be fair, the instant 30 stacks of bleed along with all the other bullshit condis Necro put on people was pretty stupid. The Deathly Chill nerf was very well deserved (It was already nerfed in pvp for a reason). Not sure why the Reaper Shroud received a increase on decay tho... I don't really think the buffs it received justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madamred.1463 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 just be more alert or rune a bit more toughness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamara.4187 Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 I play an old timers condi build mesmer and I fought a warrior today that just kept cleansing everything I threw at him. Many of the new builds are just crazy. By the way I have no idea what an insta down build for mesmer would be? Is it on the meta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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