Why nobody complains on Holosmith?

[Razor.6392]

Damage is too high on photon skills, then again, this could mostly be attributed to the PERMA 25 MIGHT STACKS that they have.

 

The constant stability is also very annoying. I feel like things like stability should be activated so you enjoy a nice stability buff for X seconds. Anything pulsing is cancer and should be removed like it happened to rev's stability.

[Daishi.6027]

Because everything it has is avoidable, and even with passives it eventually dies.

[Razor.6392]

> @Daishi.6027 said:

> Because everything it has is avoidable, and even with passives it eventually dies.

 

Another user with 200 dodges. Tell me how do you do it?

 

1 dodge for shockwave (might have wasted one trying to anticipate the stealth shockwave)

1 dodge for leap

1 dodge for the flurry of shots

1 dodge for leap / corona

1 dodge for rifle #4 knockback

 

How do you do it? I'm a squishy ele and I cannot figure it out. My cc's are worthless because of the stab, I cannot blind because of lolautogoggles and it's hard to kite with boots and leap.

 

[Bossun.2046]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @Daishi.6027 said:

> > Because everything it has is avoidable, and even with passives it eventually dies.

>

> Another user with 200 dodges. Tell me how do you do it?

>

> 1 dodge for shockwave (might have wasted one trying to anticipate the stealth shockwave)

> 1 dodge for leap

> 1 dodge for the flurry of shots

> 1 dodge for leap / corona

> 1 dodge for rifle #4 knockback

>

> How do you do it? I'm a squishy ele and I cannot figure it out. My cc's are worthless because of the stab, I cannot blind because of lolautogoggles and it's hard to kite with boots and leap.

>

 

You play Weaver or FA core ele?

 

Either way, I don't see how you would have many problems with it. Weaver has dodges to spare and blocks. If playing FA ele right you should be able to force an elixer S out of photonforge. Or counter pressure going with focus Earth 5

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> Damage is too high on photon skills, then again, this could mostly be attributed to the PERMA 25 MIGHT STACKS that they have.

>

> The constant stability is also very annoying. I feel like things like stability should be activated so you enjoy a nice stability buff for X seconds. Anything pulsing is cancer and should be removed like it happened to rev's stability.

 

Damage is high, but really no more so than d/p DD, p/p DE, and power mes. And unlike those, if you mess up, you sacrifice 40% of your health. Oh, and the stability isn't pulsing, and the cast for it is slow and can be interrupted. You clearly don't actually know what the traits and skills for holosmith do.

 

> @Razor.6392 said:

> > @Daishi.6027 said:

> > Because everything it has is avoidable, and even with passives it eventually dies.

>

> Another user with 200 dodges. Tell me how do you do it?

>

> 1 dodge for shockwave (might have wasted one trying to anticipate the stealth shockwave)

> 1 dodge for leap

> 1 dodge for the flurry of shots

> 1 dodge for leap / corona

> 1 dodge for rifle #4 knockback

>

> How do you do it? I'm a squishy ele and I cannot figure it out. My cc's are worthless because of the stab, I cannot blind because of lolautogoggles and it's hard to kite with boots and leap.

>

 

You're on FA. You have an invuln, a projectile destruction skill that lasts 6 seconds, a reflect that lasts 3 seconds, at least one stunbreak, and multiple hard cc abilities. The projectile hate should easily last long enough to stop rifle 4 and PF 4. If they try to steath cc you, use your stunbreak on it and let that eat the follow up damage as well. Interrupt one or two of their big damage skills (or save it for their heal, which is incredibly easy to interrupt). Armor of earth, swirling winds and arcane shield alone should be enough to either force them into elixir s or force them to retreat, provided you actually land your damage on them while under those effects. Holos can't attack while invulnerable, but you can.

[Faux Play.6104]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > Puzzled on the FA rating. I haven't seen any on the other team that didn't get farmed. However, it looks like a pretty good list.

>

> twitch.tv/phantaram

 

Will need to watch. With the sample set of players I've seen, that is the only build in the A and up range I haven't seen players be effective with.

[ZerotheFang.5890]

holosmith only issue is the elite and even then its easy to dodge, also i beaten up couple easy with p/p thief soo its just need to stay a little bit of distance which most people in pvp do not do cause most are melee, mean really everyone complains about something bring a fast long range spam whatever they dead move on.

[MailMail.6534]

Not as many complaints because Holo isn't brokenly OP. It's a very strong class, but it has obvious tells as well as obvious weaknesses that can be exploited. If you let them catch you off guard, then yes, you can get downed pretty quickly. Once it happens once, however, you should be on the look out.

[Hooglese.4860]

Scourge is a big reason, aside from what others have said. Scourge's can just kite them around while spamming boon corrupts and condis, which are the bane of Holosmith's existence. Even if a holosmith can manage to get close to a scourge and lock them down, they'll likely die to the massive condi spam from their sand-wraiths before they'll kill the scourge.

[Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2]

holosmith is a retarded class. it's balanced in the current meta but absolutely retardedly annoying to fight, the fucking pulsing stability, the fucking lightshow animations with the damn ''stealth'' CC. And just fucking out of wack damage. I call bullshit it on it bieng squishy, it has enough mobility it can run double elixer s, stealth and u can even run this fucking crap with pallidins amulet.

 

It's not tanky as a spellbreaker, but it ain't squishy.

 

 

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

 

> @"Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318" said:

> holosmith is a kitten class. it's balanced in the current meta but absolutely retardedly annoying to fight, the kitten pulsing stability, the kitten lightshow animations with the kitten ''stealth'' CC. And just kitten out of wack damage. I call kitten it on it bieng squishy, it has enough mobility it can run double elixer s, stealth and u can even run this kitten crap with pallidins amulet.

>

> It's not tanky as a spellbreaker, but it ain't squishy.

>

>

 

...It doesn't have pulsing stability (am I supposed to take you seriously when you don't even know the basics of the specialization?), and its stealth is rather infrequent compared to mesmers and thieves. Hell, even its burst damage isn't any higher than either of those, and holosmiths have to worry about sacrificing 40% of their health pool if they stay in photon forge for too long.

[Zuko.7132]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> I doubt meta Holosmith will be nerfed further in the balance patch tomorrow for PvP. On the contrary, I'm predicting buffs to the bad non-meta parts of it. I say Holosmith is around the usefulness level of a good Chrono or D/P Thief, with some knowledgable players putting Holosmith as less useful than those professions.

>

> In my subjective opinion I think that ArenaNet should use D/P Daredevil, Chronomancer, Blood Magic Scourge, Core Fresh Air Ele, Tempest Support, Core S/D Thief, and Holosmith as the new 'balanced' tier in which you can safely buff things below.. and shave things above.

>

> Just so it's clear, current 5-man PvP picks are as follows, as objectively as I can make this list:

>

> S Tier

> Firebrand Support

> Curses Scourge

> Spellbreaker

>

> A+ Tier

> Mirage

>

> A Tier

> Chronomancer

> D/P Daredevil

> Holosmith

> Blood Magic Scourge

> Core Fresh Air Ele

> Core S/D Thief

> Tempest support

>

> B Tier

> Dragonhunter

> Non-Rifle Deadeye

> Core Warrior

> Druid

> Scrapper

> Radiance Power Guard

>

> C Tier

> Power Revenant, Condi Revenant

> Burn Guard

> Soulbeast

> Berserker

> Power Reaper (Sorry I forgot one single build, jeez.)

> Rifle Deadeye

>

> F Tier

> Renegade

> Core Engi

> Core Ranger

> Core Mesmer

> Core Necro

 

Where would you put sages weaver out of curiosity?

[Kuya.6495]

A mesmer main complaining about holosmith!?

[Exciton.8942]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> I doubt meta Holosmith will be nerfed further in the balance patch tomorrow for PvP. On the contrary, I'm predicting buffs to the bad non-meta parts of it. I say Holosmith is around the usefulness level of a good Chrono or D/P Thief, with some knowledgable players putting Holosmith as less useful than those professions.

>

> In my subjective opinion I think that ArenaNet should use D/P Daredevil, Chronomancer, Blood Magic Scourge, Core Fresh Air Ele, Tempest Support, Core S/D Thief, and Holosmith as the new 'balanced' tier in which you can safely buff things below.. and shave things above.

>

> Just so it's clear, current 5-man PvP picks are as follows, as objectively as I can make this list:

>

> S Tier

> Firebrand Support

> Curses Scourge

> Spellbreaker

>

> A+ Tier

> Mirage

>

> A Tier

> Chronomancer

> D/P Daredevil

> Holosmith

> Blood Magic Scourge

> Core Fresh Air Ele

> Core S/D Thief

> Tempest support

>

> B Tier

> Dragonhunter

> Non-Rifle Deadeye

> Core Warrior

> Druid

> Scrapper

> Radiance Power Guard

>

> C Tier

> Power Revenant, Condi Revenant

> Burn Guard

> Soulbeast

> Berserker

> Power Reaper (Sorry I forgot one single build, jeez.)

> Rifle Deadeye

>

> F Tier

> Renegade

> Core Engi

> Core Ranger

> Core Mesmer

> Core Necro

 

Interesting that you put mirage so high despite the fact that it struggles so bad against spellbreaker and firebrand. I can't really take advantage of its awesome mobility when 2 side points are occupied by spellbreakers and the mid point is occupied by firebrand.

 

Specs in your A tier do much better against them.

 

It is really strong against non-meta stuff. However, shouldn't effectiveness in meta determine a build's tier?

[Chaith.8256]

> @Zuko.7132 said:

> Where would you put sages weaver out of curiosity?

 

B Tier, but it's a volatile pick, could become much better with meta shift away from Spellbreaker

 

[Zuko.7132]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> > @Zuko.7132 said:

> > Where would you put sages weaver out of curiosity?

>

> B Tier, but it's a volatile pick, could become much better with meta shift away from Spellbreaker

>

 

Ya i agree. Spellbreaker just fills pretty much the same role right now but better. I'm just holding out for the balance patch.

[Falan.1839]

Dem mighty turrets. :D

 

Chaith's list makes sense, even though I'd probably move Core Warr and Radiance Core Guard one tier up and Scrapper one tier down. Or make an A Minus Tier, with FA Ele, Core warr and Radiance Guard, since I consider those equally good. All very strong burst build who thrive in the current bursty meta, but might suffer on the highest level where people know how to counter stuff like that. Also Druid is still A Tier I'd say, last one to showcase that was Xomi on EU UGO. It suffers a bit from Mirage, but the combination of mobility, sustain and support is still kind of unique (there are stronger classes for each of those things, but not combined).

[choovanski.5462]

> @Falan.1839 said:

> Dem mighty turrets. :D

>

> Chaith's list makes sense, even though I'd probably move Core Warr and Radiance Core Guard one tier up and Scrapper one tier down. Or make an A Minus Tier, with FA Ele, Core warr and Radiance Guard, since I consider those equally good. All very strong burst build who thrive in the current bursty meta, but might suffer on the highest level where people know how to counter stuff like that. Also Druid is still A Tier I'd say, last one to showcase that was Xomi on EU UGO. It suffers a bit from Mirage, but the combination of mobility, sustain and support is still kind of unique (there are stronger classes for each of those things, but not combined).

 

Xomi on druid was so awesome to see. druid rocks

[Jeknar.6184]

> @Falan.1839 said:

> Dem mighty turrets. :D

 

Bring back our glorious and interactive Turret Engi. Let's make PvP great again!

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

tbh given current cleave ability from every class, bring back turret engi would probably still under-perform...

[Jeknar.6184]

> @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

> tbh given current cleave ability from every class, bring back turret engi would probably still under-perform...

 

With non critcalable and immune to condis turrets? Idk... Spellbreaker would still win tho, because it's a spellbreaker.

[Razor.6392]

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > Damage is too high on photon skills, then again, this could mostly be attributed to the PERMA 25 MIGHT STACKS that they have.

> >

> > The constant stability is also very annoying. I feel like things like stability should be activated so you enjoy a nice stability buff for X seconds. Anything pulsing is cancer and should be removed like it happened to rev's stability.

>

> Damage is high, but really no more so than d/p DD, p/p DE, and power mes. And unlike those, if you mess up, you sacrifice 40% of your health. Oh, and the stability isn't pulsing, and the cast for it is slow and can be interrupted. You clearly don't actually know what the traits and skills for holosmith do.

>

> > @Razor.6392 said:

> > > @Daishi.6027 said:

> > > Because everything it has is avoidable, and even with passives it eventually dies.

> >

> > Another user with 200 dodges. Tell me how do you do it?

> >

> > 1 dodge for shockwave (might have wasted one trying to anticipate the stealth shockwave)

> > 1 dodge for leap

> > 1 dodge for the flurry of shots

> > 1 dodge for leap / corona

> > 1 dodge for rifle #4 knockback

> >

> > How do you do it? I'm a squishy ele and I cannot figure it out. My cc's are worthless because of the stab, I cannot blind because of lolautogoggles and it's hard to kite with boots and leap.

> >

>

> You're on FA. You have an invuln, a projectile destruction skill that lasts 6 seconds, a reflect that lasts 3 seconds, at least one stunbreak, and multiple hard cc abilities. The projectile hate should easily last long enough to stop rifle 4 and PF 4. If they try to steath cc you, use your stunbreak on it and let that eat the follow up damage as well. Interrupt one or two of their big damage skills (or save it for their heal, which is incredibly easy to interrupt). Armor of earth, swirling winds and arcane shield alone should be enough to either force them into elixir s or force them to retreat, provided you actually land your damage on them while under those effects. Holos can't attack while invulnerable, but you can.

 

Why does that matter? It's permanent stability as long as you spam 3 (there's zero reason to not spam it off cd btw) so all my 'hard ccs' are worthless.

 

Healing turret is incredibly easy to interrupt? Maybe with headshot, a skill with no cast time. Sadly all of my ccs have a similar cast time than the heal itself so unless I predict it, won't work.

 

Projectile hate is on a much higher cooldown than their 10s photon blitz.

 

Basically they're immune to my blinds, to my cc (and lightning rod), can just mindlessly charge at me while I can't really kite. My only shot is to inflict enough damage in my 4 seconds of invuln, to which they won't die anyway, because of the auto elixir S. Then they stealth up or disengage, and come back once more with their short cd photon abilities up.

 

It's just a mindless class riddled with damage and CC. I wish crystal config: eclipse would _require_ you to hit people in order to get the stab, as opposed to getting it for free along might.

[Chaith.8256]

> @Razor.6392 said:

>

> Basically they're immune to my blinds, to my cc (and lightning rod), can just mindlessly charge at me while I can't really kite. My only shot is to inflict enough damage in my 4 seconds of invuln, to which they won't die anyway, because of the auto elixir S. Then they stealth up or disengage, and come back once more with their short cd photon abilities up.

>

> It's just a mindless class riddled with damage and CC. I wish crystal config: eclipse would _require_ you to hit people in order to get the stab, as opposed to getting it for free along might.

 

"Lightning Rod", Sounds like you're trying to kill an A tier build with a C tier build. Seems like you're enjoying glass lightning rod weaver, but really you should play one of many comparable A tier builds, or an even stronger build like Scourge/SB if you want to go head to head.. playing the deep discount underdog spec before a balance patch fixing that.. it is what it is.

[coro.3176]

IMO, they did well with Holo balance. It's a true glass cannon - high risk, high reward.

...then they undercut that design with the stability on Corona Burst trait.

 

Where there was once counterplay (cc and interrupt the holo in the middle of their dps rotation) there now isn't unless you can punch through 2 stacks of stab first. I can't remember if it was Chaith or someone else in the Engi forum that suggested changing that trait but it was something like 1 stack of stab instead of 2, or 0 stacks and just increase the barrier generated instead. I'd support that change. Alternatively, maybe only grant the stability after Corona Burst has finished all its pulses.

[Bossun.2046]

Weaver can avoid pretty much everything that a Holosmith does in PhotonForge. If you see that the enemy has one, switch out a skill for the evade/stun breake one. Usually, a Holosmith will only use Corona Burst twice before having to jump out of photonforge. If you are running phantarams build cc is no problem.

 

Photon Blitz will only get used once due to its high Heat cost... So the 10s CD is a non issue when going against it. Especially when you have reflects and blocks.

 

This just feels like complaining for the sake of it.