Syktek.7912 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Rennie.6750 said: > > @Syktek.7912 said: > > > @Rennie.6750 said: > > > > @Fermi.2409 said: > > > > > @Loosifah.4738 said: > > > > > Because it's an absolute **MUST** to squeeze that extra 1% dps into your build so you can be the absolute best using the same cookie cutter build everyone else is. > > > > > > > > So you're looking down on people for playing how they want and attempting to improve their own gameplay? > > > > > > That's not the point. Using a dps meter to monitor your own performance is completely fine, but the only use for it i've seen in group content is whinning, drama and kick-fests. I've never been called out for bad dps mind you, but I did have to go through all the bs the tools bring, and imo it's a mistake to allow seeing other player's log when you can't inspect their gear. It should be both or none, or this is just a recipe for moaning and drama. > > > > The second you JOIN a group you forfeit the right to not be monitored as it's not your raid group. You are a guest. If that group is running a DPS meter they aren't going to stop because you don't like it. Works the same in the reverse, you start it and someone starts calling out people for DPS you have every right to kick them for being a jerk in a casual run. > > Obviously we don't speak the same language. I'm talking about the crappy atmosphere that the tool brings to a lot of runs. You're talking about performance. For you performance matters more and that's fine, but you have no right to tell me what I prefer in my games and how I should enjoy them, so please stop. Hun, I don't care what you prefer nor will I ever. The game doesn't care what you prefer. ArenaNet doesn't care what you prefer. The here and now doesn't care what you prefer. You're a product of your own misery and that's strictly on you. But you saying things should be 'this way' or 'that way' and if it isn't 'it makes no sense' is a stupid way of thinking and I'm not going to entertain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Rennie.6750 said: > > @Fermi.2409 said: > > > @Loosifah.4738 said: > > > Because it's an absolute **MUST** to squeeze that extra 1% dps into your build so you can be the absolute best using the same cookie cutter build everyone else is. > > > > So you're looking down on people for playing how they want and attempting to improve their own gameplay? > > That's not the point. Using a dps meter to monitor your own performance is completely fine, but the only use for it i've seen in group content is whinning, drama and kick-fests. I've never been called out for bad dps mind you, but I did have to go through all the bs the tools bring, and imo it's a mistake to allow seeing other player's log when you can't inspect their gear. It should be both or none, or this is just a recipe for moaning and drama. There are always those who would do drama, whining and kicks. You only see them, because they're the noticeable ones. You can bet you've played with many players running dps meters who never said a word, because more often than not players are actually adequate and there's no point in drama. My point is, the issue isn't caused by dps meters and it never was. This behavior existed before dps meters and really, it will always exist. Because some people are just like that. Whenever things do not go smooth enough, they'll blame somebody for that, even if they can only guess the reason and even if the guess is wrong. You can hide the dps, but you can't hide the fact the run isn't smooth. So for me, the toxicity argument is an exercise in futility. You're throwing the blame in a wrong direction, and realistically there's nothing to be done about it. Spot these players and don't play with them. It's the best way you can deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abakk.9176 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Syktek.7912 said: > You're a product of your own misery and that's strictly on you. Nice example you make there. I think i can rest my case... lol. Thanks for the illustration. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syktek.7912 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @Rennie.6750 said: > > > @Fermi.2409 said: > > > > @Loosifah.4738 said: > > > > Because it's an absolute **MUST** to squeeze that extra 1% dps into your build so you can be the absolute best using the same cookie cutter build everyone else is. > > > > > > So you're looking down on people for playing how they want and attempting to improve their own gameplay? > > > > That's not the point. Using a dps meter to monitor your own performance is completely fine, but the only use for it i've seen in group content is whinning, drama and kick-fests. I've never been called out for bad dps mind you, but I did have to go through all the bs the tools bring, and imo it's a mistake to allow seeing other player's log when you can't inspect their gear. It should be both or none, or this is just a recipe for moaning and drama. > > **This behavior existed before dps meters and really, it will always exist.** CoF P2, Four Warriors and Mesmer. That was where I saw some of the nastiest PvE oriented discrimination in this game. People losing their shit on lost seconds and there were no DPS meters then. Feanor is absolutely correct here. The baddies have always been around and always will be. A few of them have DPS meters now and are making fools of themselves. Taking those away won't make them go away, they'll pull off the same behavior through other measures; such as going back to kicking certain classes rather than the weakest link who's actually screwing everything up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makai.3429 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Syktek.7912 said: > > @"Beorn Raukar.4328" said: > > > @WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said: > > > can not blame you at all . when anet let the proism and elitism come into the game. that was the day the game lost its fun and way as the game was promoted to be fun . now well salt and more salt comes in these days. from the use of some of these add ons . now the really sad part is getting yelled at while you was trying to rez players back up and getting yelled at still for it > > > > Its not like there were players like this from launch of the game. DPS meters did nothing to the game, there always was and always will be elitist players. > > DPS Meters improved the game's health in my opinion. It prevents people who don't care, don't want to learn or build correctly, from making other's time more difficult. Essentially forcing them to start caring if they want to be accepted. GW2 is an easy, very easy, MMO. Its raids are childsplay and some would argue the FotM CMs are harder. There's no excuse to play like crap, wear full pvt in high level fracts, ignore mechanics, etc. There's very little critical thinking needed for this game, especially in PvE where things are basically spoonfed to the player base. > > This isn't elitism. I would play a lot better if there were better tools for disabled gamers, and if Anet showed any degree of wanting to improve our experience (they haven't). Struggles with this game go beyond git gud and substandard gear choices, but this community seems to think it all boils down to laziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @sorudo.9054 said: > for what i see here is that the two camps wll never agree with each other, one camp wants the DPS meter all the time and the other hates the very idea of an DPS meter. > > i think the only way to solve this is by making DPS less potent in raids/fractures and make them more tactical, DPS is still fine but less the focus. The potency of dps is written into GW2's very principles of gameplay, so how do want to make it less potent? Doing mechanics right is already more important than raw dps. If you want to give mechanics even more space and at the expense of the ability to do damage in parallel, you quickly get to the point where stuff gets tedious for no real reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syktek.7912 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Makai.3429 said: > > @Syktek.7912 said: > > > @"Beorn Raukar.4328" said: > > > > @WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said: > > > > can not blame you at all . when anet let the proism and elitism come into the game. that was the day the game lost its fun and way as the game was promoted to be fun . now well salt and more salt comes in these days. from the use of some of these add ons . now the really sad part is getting yelled at while you was trying to rez players back up and getting yelled at still for it > > > > > > Its not like there were players like this from launch of the game. DPS meters did nothing to the game, there always was and always will be elitist players. > > > > DPS Meters improved the game's health in my opinion. It prevents people who don't care, don't want to learn or build correctly, from making other's time more difficult. Essentially forcing them to start caring if they want to be accepted. GW2 is an easy, very easy, MMO. Its raids are childsplay and some would argue the FotM CMs are harder. There's no excuse to play like crap, wear full pvt in high level fracts, ignore mechanics, etc. There's very little critical thinking needed for this game, especially in PvE where things are basically spoonfed to the player base. > > > > This isn't elitism. > > I would play a lot better if there were better tools for disabled gamers, and if Anet showed any degree of wanting to improve our experience (they haven't). Struggles with this game go beyond git gud and substandard gear choices, but this community seems to think it all boils down to laziness. You are one of the unfortunate few who will be unfairly treated by this and I agree with that. The refusal to introduce a color blind mode, reaction based gameplay is much harder for those a hand down or issues with motorskills, or just slower because of a mental deficiency. The best thing you can do is explain to people that you are disabled and that makes it harder for you. There are groups who will absolutely take you in and pay no mind to it (all my old raid groups would have helped you out). Add me in-game (And send me a mail) and I'd be willing to attempt to help you find a group. I don't raid anymore, but I know plenty of people who may say yes. Or well, for any content really. Fractals, Raids, etc. **RIP DOWNVOTES** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 If Anet wants to encourage the use of **DPS Meter** which I am personally not a fan of. They should at least regulate it. * They should kept to themselves , not sharing, or talking about in game. * They should BAN those using it to **harass** other DPS. Players should be able to Report those who do abuse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makai.3429 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Syktek.7912 said: > > @Makai.3429 said: > > > @Syktek.7912 said: > > > > @"Beorn Raukar.4328" said: > > > > > @WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said: > > > > > can not blame you at all . when anet let the proism and elitism come into the game. that was the day the game lost its fun and way as the game was promoted to be fun . now well salt and more salt comes in these days. from the use of some of these add ons . now the really sad part is getting yelled at while you was trying to rez players back up and getting yelled at still for it > > > > > > > > Its not like there were players like this from launch of the game. DPS meters did nothing to the game, there always was and always will be elitist players. > > > > > > DPS Meters improved the game's health in my opinion. It prevents people who don't care, don't want to learn or build correctly, from making other's time more difficult. Essentially forcing them to start caring if they want to be accepted. GW2 is an easy, very easy, MMO. Its raids are childsplay and some would argue the FotM CMs are harder. There's no excuse to play like crap, wear full pvt in high level fracts, ignore mechanics, etc. There's very little critical thinking needed for this game, especially in PvE where things are basically spoonfed to the player base. > > > > > > This isn't elitism. > > > > I would play a lot better if there were better tools for disabled gamers, and if Anet showed any degree of wanting to improve our experience (they haven't). Struggles with this game go beyond git gud and substandard gear choices, but this community seems to think it all boils down to laziness. > > You are one of the unfortunate few who will be unfairly treated by this and I agree with that. The refusal to introduce a color blind mode, reaction based gameplay is much harder for those a hand down or issues with motorskills, or just slower because of a mental deficiency. The best thing you can do is explain to people that you are disabled and that makes it harder for you. There are groups who will absolutely take you in and pay no mind to it (all my old raid groups would have helped you out). Add me in-game (And send me a mail) and I'd be willing to attempt to help you find a group. I don't raid anymore, but I know plenty of people who may say yes. > Wow. I wasn't expecting such a positive response (I get flamed a lot for expressing these issues), so thank you. I'll add you after work this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syktek.7912 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Makai.3429 said: > > @Syktek.7912 said: > > > @Makai.3429 said: > > > > @Syktek.7912 said: > > > > > @"Beorn Raukar.4328" said: > > > > > > @WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said: > > > > > > can not blame you at all . when anet let the proism and elitism come into the game. that was the day the game lost its fun and way as the game was promoted to be fun . now well salt and more salt comes in these days. from the use of some of these add ons . now the really sad part is getting yelled at while you was trying to rez players back up and getting yelled at still for it > > > > > > > > > > Its not like there were players like this from launch of the game. DPS meters did nothing to the game, there always was and always will be elitist players. > > > > > > > > DPS Meters improved the game's health in my opinion. It prevents people who don't care, don't want to learn or build correctly, from making other's time more difficult. Essentially forcing them to start caring if they want to be accepted. GW2 is an easy, very easy, MMO. Its raids are childsplay and some would argue the FotM CMs are harder. There's no excuse to play like crap, wear full pvt in high level fracts, ignore mechanics, etc. There's very little critical thinking needed for this game, especially in PvE where things are basically spoonfed to the player base. > > > > > > > > This isn't elitism. > > > > > > I would play a lot better if there were better tools for disabled gamers, and if Anet showed any degree of wanting to improve our experience (they haven't). Struggles with this game go beyond git gud and substandard gear choices, but this community seems to think it all boils down to laziness. > > > > You are one of the unfortunate few who will be unfairly treated by this and I agree with that. The refusal to introduce a color blind mode, reaction based gameplay is much harder for those a hand down or issues with motorskills, or just slower because of a mental deficiency. The best thing you can do is explain to people that you are disabled and that makes it harder for you. There are groups who will absolutely take you in and pay no mind to it (all my old raid groups would have helped you out). Add me in-game (And send me a mail) and I'd be willing to attempt to help you find a group. I don't raid anymore, but I know plenty of people who may say yes. > > > > Wow. I wasn't expecting such a positive response (I get flamed a lot for expressing these issues), so thank you. I'll add you after work this evening. I grew up being bullied for mental deficiency. Telling people who bring up those concerns to go away is the wrong thing to do. It's a bit off topic, but once you have a disability or illness that can't be 'fixed' things change. Those who don't have anything going on can easily brush it off cause they don't know the invisible pain. It's a problem that'll get better as society continues to evolve. And cya then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syktek.7912 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > If Anet wants to encourage the use of **DPS Meter** which I am personally not a fan of. > They should at least regulate it. > * They should kept to themselves , not sharing, or talking about in game. > * They should BAN those using it to **harass** other DPS. > > Players should be able to Report those who do abuse it. They actually have a rule for the second one and you can get a temporary ban for malicious behavior involving meters. They recently permabanned a developer of another DPS tool because the tool continuously broke their guidelines for DPS meters; after multiple warnings. They aren't inactive on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substatic.6958 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Substatic.6958 said: > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. It's the players fault not the developers. It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. Its also on the developers end. The classes in this game are pretty awfully balanced and it is noticeable. You can play how you want, if you want to play a build that does less damage then you do you, just dont expect everyone to want to play with you either. I dont expect everyone to take my Cranger in all content, because its not as good as other builds out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. How is that the theorycrafters' fault? They only figure out what's optimal. And people stick with it because, you know, it's optimal. It happens in every game and it's fine. The only with PvE balance in GW2 is the total domination of the druid/chrono/cps trinity when it comes to support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substatic.6958 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > How is that the theorycrafters' fault? They only figure out what's optimal. And people stick with it because, you know, it's optimal. It happens in every game and it's fine. The only with PvE balance in GW2 is the total domination of the druid/chrono/cps trinity when it comes to support. You proved my point by agreeing to go along with what Theroycrafters have put it together. Call it Optimal or Viable. However, we are still continue to be given the same OPTIONS to how we should play our Professions viable or not. So my fun is playing how I want with whatever build of my choosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Substatic.6958 said: > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. > > That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. Sorry, I am not here to play WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substatic.6958 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > > > Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. > > > > That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. > > Sorry, I am not here to play WOW! This has nothing to do with what I stated. I'm telling you games with significantly better balance don't have a big problem with dps meters in the community. Doing 30-50% less damage goes beyond just failing at elitist min-maxing. That's just horrible and MANY specs are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > The vast majority of GW2 players dont raid > > > > > the vast majority of GW2 players don't use damage meters > > > > > The vast majority of players don't use meta builds > > > > > > > > > > The vast majority of players happily farm fractals every day, > > > > > > > > > > The need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset. > > > > > > > > I think you may have missed what the point of this thread was. It's not titled "DPS meters are toxic for open world events". It's explicitly about PvE endgame, the exact place where DPS meters are appropriate. Nobody is saying that people should be persnickety in t2 fractals or in your daily arah run. We're talking about t4 fractals and raids. That's it. > > > > > > > or maybe im just....doing more damage than i think i am and thus havent been bothered by them. > > > > This is likely the case. The anti-dps meter crowd makes it seem like people will have a hairy conniption if you're 5% under qt benchmarks. In reality, people are only gonna flip at you if you're dealing less damage than the chrono. As long as you're producing any reasonable dps, nobody is going to raise a fuss. > > Thats' the thing though isn't it, reasonable dps is perfectly fine and everyone happily clears the instances without being optimal but people do make a fuss, so why are they making a fuss, why the drama, why the calling out of peopl;e because they are using skill X instead of Y when actually as long as your resoable/viable all should be well. This is the heart of the issue.> @Syktek.7912 said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > Strawman argument. I was talking about PVE instanced end game, dungeons, boss fights, fractals - eveything appart from raids in fact. The vast majority of players happily farm fractals including T4 and have been doing so for many years quite happily. As i said the need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset, because the fact is the vast majority prove otherwise. > > > > And let them. No one is telling them not to play together. They're simply not going to get into certainly groups with certain people who wish to play efficiently with other efficient players. And sure, you try running Matt, Deimos, Sab without a chrono, heather and with mediocre players. Have fun, lol. > > 'them' is the majority of the player base, and absolutely players should play with like minded people if they cant handle otherwise, especially those that look down their elitist nostrils on 'mediocre' people lol. Win win. Imagine you were p> @Substatic.6958 said: > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > > > > > Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. > > > > > > That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. > > > > Sorry, I am not here to play WOW! > > This has nothing to do with what I stated. I'm telling you games with significantly better balance don't have a big problem with dps meters in the community. > > Doing 30-50% less damage goes beyond just failing at elitist min-maxing. That's just horrible and MANY specs are bad. > > > And if its not 30-50% and its say 20% above viable, why the drama then? Also, What if someone doesn't want to play Glass cannon? Guild wars games are more than just glass cannon or go home, Games like WOW do service that need, as does raids in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substatic.6958 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > The vast majority of GW2 players dont raid > > > > > > the vast majority of GW2 players don't use damage meters > > > > > > The vast majority of players don't use meta builds > > > > > > > > > > > > The vast majority of players happily farm fractals every day, > > > > > > > > > > > > The need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset. > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have missed what the point of this thread was. It's not titled "DPS meters are toxic for open world events". It's explicitly about PvE endgame, the exact place where DPS meters are appropriate. Nobody is saying that people should be persnickety in t2 fractals or in your daily arah run. We're talking about t4 fractals and raids. That's it. > > > > > > > > > or maybe im just....doing more damage than i think i am and thus havent been bothered by them. > > > > > > This is likely the case. The anti-dps meter crowd makes it seem like people will have a hairy conniption if you're 5% under qt benchmarks. In reality, people are only gonna flip at you if you're dealing less damage than the chrono. As long as you're producing any reasonable dps, nobody is going to raise a fuss. > > > > Thats' the thing though isn't it, reasonable dps is perfectly fine and everyone happily clears the instances without being optimal but people do make a fuss, so why are they making a fuss, why the drama, why the calling out of peopl;e because they are using skill X instead of Y when actually as long as your resoable/viable all should be well. This is the heart of the issue.> @Syktek.7912 said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > Strawman argument. I was talking about PVE instanced end game, dungeons, boss fights, fractals - eveything appart from raids in fact. The vast majority of players happily farm fractals including T4 and have been doing so for many years quite happily. As i said the need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset, because the fact is the vast majority prove otherwise. > > > > > > And let them. No one is telling them not to play together. They're simply not going to get into certainly groups with certain people who wish to play efficiently with other efficient players. And sure, you try running Matt, Deimos, Sab without a chrono, heather and with mediocre players. Have fun, lol. > > > > 'them' is the majority of the player base, and absolutely players should play with like minded people if they cant handle otherwise, especially those that look down their elitist nostrils on 'mediocre' people lol. Win win. > > Imagine you were p> @Substatic.6958 said: > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > > > > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > > > > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > > > > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > > > > > > > Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. > > > > > > > > That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. > > > > > > Sorry, I am not here to play WOW! > > > > This has nothing to do with what I stated. I'm telling you games with significantly better balance don't have a big problem with dps meters in the community. > > > > Doing 30-50% less damage goes beyond just failing at elitist min-maxing. That's just horrible and MANY specs are bad. > > > > > > > > And if its not 30-50% and its say 20% above viable, why the drama then? Also, What if someone doesn't want to play Glass cannon? Guild wars games are more than just glass cannon or go home, Games like WOW do service that need, as does raids in GW2. I'm talking about just DPS specs. The balance is extremely poor in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > The vast majority of GW2 players dont raid > > > > > > the vast majority of GW2 players don't use damage meters > > > > > > The vast majority of players don't use meta builds > > > > > > > > > > > > The vast majority of players happily farm fractals every day, > > > > > > > > > > > > The need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset. > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have missed what the point of this thread was. It's not titled "DPS meters are toxic for open world events". It's explicitly about PvE endgame, the exact place where DPS meters are appropriate. Nobody is saying that people should be persnickety in t2 fractals or in your daily arah run. We're talking about t4 fractals and raids. That's it. > > > > > > > > > or maybe im just....doing more damage than i think i am and thus havent been bothered by them. > > > > > > This is likely the case. The anti-dps meter crowd makes it seem like people will have a hairy conniption if you're 5% under qt benchmarks. In reality, people are only gonna flip at you if you're dealing less damage than the chrono. As long as you're producing any reasonable dps, nobody is going to raise a fuss. > > > > Thats' the thing though isn't it, reasonable dps is perfectly fine and everyone happily clears the instances without being optimal but people do make a fuss, so why are they making a fuss, why the drama, why the calling out of peopl;e because they are using skill X instead of Y when actually as long as your resoable/viable all should be well. This is the heart of the issue.> @Syktek.7912 said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > Strawman argument. I was talking about PVE instanced end game, dungeons, boss fights, fractals - eveything appart from raids in fact. The vast majority of players happily farm fractals including T4 and have been doing so for many years quite happily. As i said the need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset, because the fact is the vast majority prove otherwise. > > > > > > And let them. No one is telling them not to play together. They're simply not going to get into certainly groups with certain people who wish to play efficiently with other efficient players. And sure, you try running Matt, Deimos, Sab without a chrono, heather and with mediocre players. Have fun, lol. > > > > 'them' is the majority of the player base, and absolutely players should play with like minded people if they cant handle otherwise, especially those that look down their elitist nostrils on 'mediocre' people lol. Win win. > > Imagine you were p> @Substatic.6958 said: > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > > > > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > > > > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > > > > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > > > > > > > Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. > > > > > > > > That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. > > > > > > Sorry, I am not here to play WOW! > > > > This has nothing to do with what I stated. I'm telling you games with significantly better balance don't have a big problem with dps meters in the community. > > > > Doing 30-50% less damage goes beyond just failing at elitist min-maxing. That's just horrible and MANY specs are bad. > > > > > > > > And if its not 30-50% and its say 20% above viable, why the drama then? Also, What if someone doesn't want to play Glass cannon? Guild wars games are more than just glass cannon or go home. > @Substatic.6958 said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > The vast majority of GW2 players dont raid > > > > > > > the vast majority of GW2 players don't use damage meters > > > > > > > The vast majority of players don't use meta builds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The vast majority of players happily farm fractals every day, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have missed what the point of this thread was. It's not titled "DPS meters are toxic for open world events". It's explicitly about PvE endgame, the exact place where DPS meters are appropriate. Nobody is saying that people should be persnickety in t2 fractals or in your daily arah run. We're talking about t4 fractals and raids. That's it. > > > > > > > > > > > or maybe im just....doing more damage than i think i am and thus havent been bothered by them. > > > > > > > > This is likely the case. The anti-dps meter crowd makes it seem like people will have a hairy conniption if you're 5% under qt benchmarks. In reality, people are only gonna flip at you if you're dealing less damage than the chrono. As long as you're producing any reasonable dps, nobody is going to raise a fuss. > > > > > > Thats' the thing though isn't it, reasonable dps is perfectly fine and everyone happily clears the instances without being optimal but people do make a fuss, so why are they making a fuss, why the drama, why the calling out of peopl;e because they are using skill X instead of Y when actually as long as your resoable/viable all should be well. This is the heart of the issue.> @Syktek.7912 said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > Strawman argument. I was talking about PVE instanced end game, dungeons, boss fights, fractals - eveything appart from raids in fact. The vast majority of players happily farm fractals including T4 and have been doing so for many years quite happily. As i said the need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset, because the fact is the vast majority prove otherwise. > > > > > > > > And let them. No one is telling them not to play together. They're simply not going to get into certainly groups with certain people who wish to play efficiently with other efficient players. And sure, you try running Matt, Deimos, Sab without a chrono, heather and with mediocre players. Have fun, lol. > > > > > > 'them' is the majority of the player base, and absolutely players should play with like minded people if they cant handle otherwise, especially those that look down their elitist nostrils on 'mediocre' people lol. Win win. > > > > Imagine you were p> @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > > > > > > > > > Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. > > > > > > > > > > That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. > > > > > > > > Sorry, I am not here to play WOW! > > > > > > This has nothing to do with what I stated. I'm telling you games with significantly better balance don't have a big problem with dps meters in the community. > > > > > > Doing 30-50% less damage goes beyond just failing at elitist min-maxing. That's just horrible and MANY specs are bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if its not 30-50% and its say 20% above viable, why the drama then? Also, What if someone doesn't want to play Glass cannon? Guild wars games are more than just glass cannon or go home, Games like WOW do service that need, as does raids in GW2. > > I'm talking about just DPS specs. The balance is extremely poor in GW2. So am I. There are dps builds and then there are glass cannon dps builds, always has been in mmorpg's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhanoa.3960 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Substatic.6958 said: > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > > > > > Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. > > > > > > That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. > > > > Sorry, I am not here to play WOW! > > This has nothing to do with what I stated. I'm telling you games with significantly better balance don't have a big problem with dps meters in the community. > > Doing 30-50% less damage goes beyond just failing at elitist min-maxing. That's just horrible and MANY specs are bad. > > > This is your problem not mine as you keep looking at it as a DPS RACE! I am very aware of of all the viable DPS Specs, this game offers more than just: **1. ----EPIC DPS----- 2. ----------------- 3. --------------- 4. ------------- 5. ------------- 6. ----------- 7. ----------** I choose to ignore it all together and I am sure I am not alone on this either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > The vast majority of GW2 players dont raid > > > > > > > the vast majority of GW2 players don't use damage meters > > > > > > > The vast majority of players don't use meta builds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The vast majority of players happily farm fractals every day, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have missed what the point of this thread was. It's not titled "DPS meters are toxic for open world events". It's explicitly about PvE endgame, the exact place where DPS meters are appropriate. Nobody is saying that people should be persnickety in t2 fractals or in your daily arah run. We're talking about t4 fractals and raids. That's it. > > > > > > > > > > > or maybe im just....doing more damage than i think i am and thus havent been bothered by them. > > > > > > > > This is likely the case. The anti-dps meter crowd makes it seem like people will have a hairy conniption if you're 5% under qt benchmarks. In reality, people are only gonna flip at you if you're dealing less damage than the chrono. As long as you're producing any reasonable dps, nobody is going to raise a fuss. > > > > > > Thats' the thing though isn't it, reasonable dps is perfectly fine and everyone happily clears the instances without being optimal but people do make a fuss, so why are they making a fuss, why the drama, why the calling out of peopl;e because they are using skill X instead of Y when actually as long as your resoable/viable all should be well. This is the heart of the issue.> @Syktek.7912 said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > Strawman argument. I was talking about PVE instanced end game, dungeons, boss fights, fractals - eveything appart from raids in fact. The vast majority of players happily farm fractals including T4 and have been doing so for many years quite happily. As i said the need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset, because the fact is the vast majority prove otherwise. > > > > > > > > And let them. No one is telling them not to play together. They're simply not going to get into certainly groups with certain people who wish to play efficiently with other efficient players. And sure, you try running Matt, Deimos, Sab without a chrono, heather and with mediocre players. Have fun, lol. > > > > > > 'them' is the majority of the player base, and absolutely players should play with like minded people if they cant handle otherwise, especially those that look down their elitist nostrils on 'mediocre' people lol. Win win. > > > > Imagine you were p> @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > > > > > > > > > Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. > > > > > > > > > > That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. > > > > > > > > Sorry, I am not here to play WOW! > > > > > > This has nothing to do with what I stated. I'm telling you games with significantly better balance don't have a big problem with dps meters in the community. > > > > > > Doing 30-50% less damage goes beyond just failing at elitist min-maxing. That's just horrible and MANY specs are bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if its not 30-50% and its say 20% above viable, why the drama then? Also, What if someone doesn't want to play Glass cannon? Guild wars games are more than just glass cannon or go home. > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > > > @Dante.1763 said: > > > > > > > @Pyroatheist.9031 said: > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > The vast majority of GW2 players dont raid > > > > > > > > the vast majority of GW2 players don't use damage meters > > > > > > > > The vast majority of players don't use meta builds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The vast majority of players happily farm fractals every day, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you may have missed what the point of this thread was. It's not titled "DPS meters are toxic for open world events". It's explicitly about PvE endgame, the exact place where DPS meters are appropriate. Nobody is saying that people should be persnickety in t2 fractals or in your daily arah run. We're talking about t4 fractals and raids. That's it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > or maybe im just....doing more damage than i think i am and thus havent been bothered by them. > > > > > > > > > > This is likely the case. The anti-dps meter crowd makes it seem like people will have a hairy conniption if you're 5% under qt benchmarks. In reality, people are only gonna flip at you if you're dealing less damage than the chrono. As long as you're producing any reasonable dps, nobody is going to raise a fuss. > > > > > > > > Thats' the thing though isn't it, reasonable dps is perfectly fine and everyone happily clears the instances without being optimal but people do make a fuss, so why are they making a fuss, why the drama, why the calling out of peopl;e because they are using skill X instead of Y when actually as long as your resoable/viable all should be well. This is the heart of the issue.> @Syktek.7912 said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > Strawman argument. I was talking about PVE instanced end game, dungeons, boss fights, fractals - eveything appart from raids in fact. The vast majority of players happily farm fractals including T4 and have been doing so for many years quite happily. As i said the need for Meta by raiders outwith raids has nothing to do with viability and everything to do with their mindset, because the fact is the vast majority prove otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > And let them. No one is telling them not to play together. They're simply not going to get into certainly groups with certain people who wish to play efficiently with other efficient players. And sure, you try running Matt, Deimos, Sab without a chrono, heather and with mediocre players. Have fun, lol. > > > > > > > > 'them' is the majority of the player base, and absolutely players should play with like minded people if they cant handle otherwise, especially those that look down their elitist nostrils on 'mediocre' people lol. Win win. > > > > > > Imagine you were p> @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. > > > > > > > > > > > > That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I am not here to play WOW! > > > > > > > > This has nothing to do with what I stated. I'm telling you games with significantly better balance don't have a big problem with dps meters in the community. > > > > > > > > Doing 30-50% less damage goes beyond just failing at elitist min-maxing. That's just horrible and MANY specs are bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if its not 30-50% and its say 20% above viable, why the drama then? Also, What if someone doesn't want to play Glass cannon? Guild wars games are more than just glass cannon or go home, Games like WOW do service that need, as does raids in GW2. > > > > I'm talking about just DPS specs. The balance is extremely poor in GW2. > > So am I. There are dps builds and then there are glass cannon dps builds, always has been in mmorpg's. > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > > > > > @Substatic.6958 said: > > > > > > The problem isn't the DPS meter. It's the **extremely** bad pve class balance. > > > > > > > > > > It's the players fault not the developers. > > > > > > > > > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. > > > > > > > > > > Don't give me this L2P argument either, if you are even thinking it. Many of us are past that and now. > > > > > > > > Nah, it's the developers fault. For example, In WoW the biggest single target dps difference is 10-12%. In this game its 30-50%, and many non condition specs are pure trash. That is REALLY bad and you can't expect people to want those specs in a raid. Also in this game some classes provide utility that none other can. So you see every group asking for PS, Druid, Chrono as mandatory. > > > > > > > > That's just poor game design. I would never expect a healthy raiding community given those facts. > > > > > > Sorry, I am not here to play WOW! > > > > This has nothing to do with what I stated. I'm telling you games with significantly better balance don't have a big problem with dps meters in the community. > > > > Doing 30-50% less damage goes beyond just failing at elitist min-maxing. That's just horrible and MANY specs are bad. > > > > > > > > This is your problem not mine as you keep looking at it as a DPS RACE! I am very aware of of all the viable DPS Specs, this game offers more than just: > **1. ----EPIC DPS----- > 2. ----------------- > 3. --------------- > 4. ------------- > 5. ------------- > 6. ----------- > 7. ----------** > > I choose to ignore it all together and I am sure I am not alone on this either. Nah your not, i'm also perfectly aware of the top dps specs and rotations but only use it in raids, outside raids I vary between various hybrid builds that give good dps and plenty utility to give support and more importantly flavor to gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermi.2409 Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 > @Rhanoa.3960 said: > > It's the **Therorycrafters** behind telling you how to play and trying to tell me how to play. Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. The theorycrafters aren't telling you how to play, they're saying "these are the builds that have the highest possible damage, or provide the best support (while possibly maximizing damage)" >Sadly, **Majority** rules subjecting themselves to these viable META Builds all because folks want to have cookie cutter builds. The "majority" (I'd love some sort of actual proof to back up that statement) use the listed builds because it's going to be the most effective at completing content. The fastest way to beat a Fractal or whatever is going to be by killing the mobs and the bosses the fastest. Thus, the builds that can deal the most damage or can facilitate the dealing of the most damage are going to be the most effective. Many people want fast clears, so that's what they trend towards. I'm willing to bet that the actual majority just runs whatever they think is fun or is good or whatever, since "the casual" is a large part of the game's demographic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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