I hate what DPS meters have done to PVE endgame...

[Azoqu.8917]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @Azoqu.8917 said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > More importantly it is well understood scientifically that there are a number of behavioral issues that WILL occur unless the player happens to be a behavioral or data scientist and they can control the environment (we ofc cannot) and they do not have a bias (which they have), for example the observer-expectancy effect and ofc confirmation bias.

> >

> > Please cite the peer reviewed paper where said experiment was done.

>

> do it yourself, its not my job to educate you. The papers go back to the 60's at least, this isn't new stuff that's being disputed, its well understood human behavior. You really need proof that these effects exist lol?

 

In an argument concerning data, it is up to the arguer to provide the proof for the point they are arguing, not up to the person they are trying to convince to look for said proof (otherwise I say I couldn't find it and therefor your point has no proof, even if there is tons out there). And my whole point was for those who may not have seen said data, not for myself.

[Koyomi.1378]

> the problem is not the metrics, the problem is the behavior, expertise and bias of the observer and the uncontrolled environment. People have happily cleared top end pve content in GW games for many years without the need of dps meters. At its worst DPS meters is a divisive meta game that the game is better without.

>

The top end pve content is so much harder than what it used to be, not to mention balanced around meta, it's not that players have started to become more toxic, they simply started to become better players with stricter demands on how one should perform, i doubt that the people that advertise their "casual good everywhere builds" lead training raids, or complete fractal challenge motes daily, among other things.

 

 

[Dante.1763]

> @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > @lmaogg.7325 said:

> > How is it a stupid thread. It's a fact that this is happening.

> It's certainly happening, as there have always been, are, and will always be some jerks in this game (and every other MMO). But that's not yet relevant. It's the frequency that matters and I see no reason to believe that it happens often enough to make it matter. We've also had more than enough kicks over extremely stupid metrics like AP in the past and they did not remove AP.

>

> With all the open toxicity from the anti-meter crowd, I dare suggest that this community has a wholly different and much more relevant problem.

 

Ya know...i still feel like this "Problem" is being blown out of proportion. I have yet, despite doing t3 and t4 fractals basically all month, on top of random raids seen anybody complain once about DPS meters.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > Put it this way:

> >

> > - At best its a tool used by a small % of the population to improve themselves and others in a good mannered way. A proportion of this % of player base will show bias and not be aware of their biased viewpoint.

> >

> > - At worst its a tool used by the ignorant or offensive who may or may not be in control of their behaviour and understand their anti social impact. Worse still are the maliscious and rude players deliberately use the tool to bully.

> >

> > - the majority of people dont give a kitten about meters.

> >

> > I don't think the positives outweigh the negatives for the many, do you?

>

> Those who use the tool to bully or are rude towards others can be reported and be dealt with.

> Those who use the tool to root out players who shouldn't be in their group in the first place, I don't think they are doing anything wrong. The fault is on the one that joins, not the one that kicks, in that case. Basic reading comprehension, and honesty of course. Basic things required when communicating with others.

> Of course there will be those who -think- they are good, but in reality they are not. Those will be the most vocal complainers. Maybe it will be good for them and they will finally realize they aren't as amazing as they think they are and go train some more. Maybe they won't and will resort in forums posts.

> Obviously the majority who doesn't care is irrelevant.

>

> I don't think the negatives outweigh the positives

 

lol so your basing that on the basis that players self regular and reporting resolves these issues. as for the rest of your comments, no idea what the hell your discusssion about 'good plate> @Wolfheart.7483 said:

> > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > @Wolfheart.7483 said:

> > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > > > @Wolfheart.7483 said:

> > > > > > > I am fine with DPS meters. I am quite skilled at playing all of my characters and can pull off meta rotations if needed but I *prefer* a slightly more laid back approach. I would never join a raid group looking for meta rotation/DPS if I wasn't feeling up to the task. Rather, I would look for another, more casual, group or start my own.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The issue with banning a DPS meter or anything similar will always be this: It is the player being toxic, not the meter. There will always be a percentage of the player base who want to be toxic and will find a way to do it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I remember when people would have AP requirements in LFG to do dungeons. They were being elitist based off a number that didn't have any direct relation to skill. But it was one of the only things that could, at the very least, show a level of experience in the game as a whole that could not be faked. People were kicked or not allowed in groups because they didn't have enough AP. It was a pointless measure of how skilled a player was. Should a ban on achievement points have been considered at that time?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you join a group who posted for specific requirements, then they have every right to kick you if you don't meet those requirements. There will always be he-said/she-said gray area (my DPS went lower because I had to res you, etc.) but that can happen in any circumstance, with or without DPS meters. The finger pointing and details of how/why someone is blamed will simply change form.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > DPS meters just become an easy target to blame for the toxicity. The DPS meter is simply a tool.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > For those that want DPS meters banned, what exactly do you hope to accomplish? Those toxic elitists welcoming you with open arms? Why would you want to be in their groups anyway?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **TL;DR

> > > > > > > People are the toxic element, not the DPS meter. That will not change. **

> > > > > >

> > > > > > your actually incorrect here, the problem with such tools is that they are opinionated and used by players with bias (I as a tool focus on dps, I as a player want max dps)

> > > > > > More importantly it is well understood scientifically that there are a number of behavioral issues that WILL occur unless the player happens to be a behavioral or data scientist and they can control the environment (we ofc cannot) and they do not have a bias (which they have), for example the observer-expectancy effect and ofc confirmation bias.

> > > > >

> > > > > The same effects can happen, will happen and do happen, with or without dps meters. Because with or without them players still have expectations and bias, based on arbitrary indicators like AP number, LI count and whatnot. It's not like we've not seen it already. If anything, dps meters counter said effects by objectively measuring performance. So no, he's actually correct and you aren't.

> > > >

> > > > no it will happen MORE if the tools are provided that can be misued, thats the point.

> > > >

> > > > Put it this way:

> > > >

> > > > - At best its a tool used by a small % of the population to improve themselves and others in a good mannered way. A proportion of this % of player base will show bias and not be aware of their biased viewpoint.

> > > >

> > > > - At worst its a tool used by the ignorant or offensive who may or may not be in control of their behaviour and understand their anti social impact. Worse still are the maliscious and rude players deliberately use the tool to bully.

> > > >

> > > > - the majority of people dont give a kitten about meters.

> > > >

> > > > I don't think the positives outweigh the negatives for the many, do you?

> > >

> > > If the majority don't care about DPS meters, as you claim, then neither the positives nor the negatives outweigh the other for the *many* if they are indifferent to it.

> > > The worst behavior, as you described it, would be exhibited by the same players but in a different way, using a different tool/criteria.

> > >

> >

> > maybe i should clarify to avoid the spin, the majority don't care about using meters, obviously they and us care about the negative effects eh?

> >

>

> The DPS meter doesn't cause negative effects, player behavior does. The players behaving that way will still behave that way without DPS meters, *eh*?

 

that was my point earlier, eureka (except ofc if they don't have a meter they don't have their 'smoking gun' lol)

[Makai.3429]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @Makai.3429 said:

> > As I said to the other fellow earlier, count yourself fortunate then, and be glad you are allowed to do high end content. This game has a lot of terrible people - some of the worst I've ever seen in my 20 years of playing MMOs.

>

> Exaggeration and hyperbole I see again.

> I guess you are the unfortunate here, because GW2 has one of the best communities in any MMORPG, that you've seen only the worst you must have rotten luck here. And somehow was really lucky in all the other MMORPGs you've ever played. Can't explain it otherwise.

 

How is it hyperbole if I'm basing this off my personal experiences? I've encountered more abelists in GW2 than UO, DaOC, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Guild Wars 1, FFXIV, and kitten, even The Sims Online, put together.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> that was my point earlier, eureka (except ofc if they don't have a meter they don't have their 'smoking gun' lol)

 

Except ofc they do lol. Like I (and many others) have already said. But I guess when some data doesn't fit your belief you simply disregard it, eh?

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> lol so your basing that on the basis that players self regular and reporting resolves these issues.

 

Those who troll yes. Because they are trolls and need to be dealt with like trolls. I doubt they are many anyway.

The rest, I already explained, it's not always the fault of the one doing the kicking when they kick. At least with a meter you can verify and root out liars and cheaters. I gave an example earlier in the thread about the old days of magic find stats on gear. What would I give for dps-meters back then so those selfish cowards could be identified and then kicked from groups.

 

So I don't see how the negatives outweigh the positives and if your response is "lol" it doesn't help

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > @lmaogg.7325 said:

> > How is it a stupid thread. It's a fact that this is happening.

> It's certainly happening, as there have always been, are, and will always be some jerks in this game (and every other MMO). But that's not yet relevant. It's the frequency that matters and I see no reason to believe that it happens often enough to make it matter. We've also had more than enough kicks over extremely stupid metrics like AP in the past and they did not remove AP.

>

> With all the open toxicity from the anti-meter crowd, I dare suggest that this community has a wholly different and much more relevant problem.

 

I find that most people who call others toxic (specifically that word) are full of bullshit.

 

The real douchebags are the ones who relentlessly hound another player because of their gaming habits that don't NEED to affect them.

 

In this case the antimeterers.

 

Use lfg tool.

 

 

I am a super scrub and I have zero problems rolling with t4 fractals groups that carry me because I don't have enough AR.

 

What is your excuse even?

Maybe it's your attitude that gets you kicked.

 

I feel like if you talked to me in party char how you guys talk here.. . I WOULD BE LIKE LOLKIK .

 

Nobody wants a nagger .

Nobody wants to party up with the school lunch supervisor and hall monitor.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Makai.3429 said:

> How is it hyperbole if I'm basing this off my personal experiences? I've encountered more abelists in GW2 than UO, DaOC, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Guild Wars 1, FFXIV, and kitten, even The Sims Online, put together.

 

That's exactly the hyperbole. IF you don't see your post as hyperbole then you probably don't know what hyperbole is.

[Makai.3429]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @Makai.3429 said:

> > How is it hyperbole if I'm basing this off my personal experiences? I've encountered more abelists in GW2 than UO, DaOC, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Guild Wars 1, FFXIV, and kitten, even The Sims Online, put together.

>

> That's exactly the hyperbole. IF you don't see your post as hyperbole then you probably don't know what hyperbole is.

 

Ok. Let's try again. Out of the games I mentioned, not once was I ever booted because of my disability. In GW2 it happens roughly 75% of the time when I try anything beyond T2 Fractals (no one does T3 so that's irrelevant), and I'm tired of it. This wasn't a problem before HoT and Raids, and now one of my favorite ways to relax is being taken from me. It's causing me to lose sleep, become bitter toward the game and life in general, and I've broken two keyboards in the last month. Not hyperbole.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > that was my point earlier, eureka (except ofc if they don't have a meter they don't have their 'smoking gun' lol)

>

> Except ofc they do lol. Like I (and many others) have already said. But I guess when some data doesn't fit your belief you simply disregard it, eh?

 

what belief exactly? Meters can be abused (fact), meters add little value to the majority of the game population (fact) MMorpgs suffer from meter abuse (fact) remove the meter, hardly anyone uses it anyway, job done. Fact not belief, fact.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Makai.3429 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > How is it hyperbole if I'm basing this off my personal experiences? I've encountered more abelists in GW2 than UO, DaOC, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Guild Wars 1, FFXIV, and kitten, even The Sims Online, put together.

> >

> > That's exactly the hyperbole. IF you don't see your post as hyperbole then you probably don't know what hyperbole is.

>

> Ok. Let's try again. Out of the games I mentioned, not once was I ever booted because of my disability. In GW2 it happens all the time, and I'm tired of it. Not hyperbole.

You are drunk and I don't believe you.

 

I don't believe anyone would flat out boot you because you are disabled. And if they do I am positive it's something like "sorry bud".

 

Maybe it's the way you present your disability.

"IAMDISABLED YOU MUST CATER TO THIS OR YOU ARE ABLEIST SCUM"

 

I mean I am genuinely curious. Not saying you are like that. But I have seen a fair share of entitled angry bitter disabled players.

 

And it sucks sure. But people need to still be aware of how they manifest their frustrations.

 

I am not the best at it. But still aware.

 

[Wolfheart.7483]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > that was my point earlier, eureka (except ofc if they don't have a meter they don't have their 'smoking gun' lol)

> >

> > Except ofc they do lol. Like I (and many others) have already said. But I guess when some data doesn't fit your belief you simply disregard it, eh?

>

> what belief exactly? Meters can be abused (fact), meters add little value to the majority of the game population (fact) MMorpgs suffer from meter abuse (fact) remove the meter, hardly anyone uses it anyway, job done. Fact not belief, fact.

 

Meters adding little value to the majority of the population is a guess, not a fact. I would concur that is probably the case but it still can't be definitively proven, hence it isn't a fact.

 

But *if* hardly anyone uses it then why do you have such a strong stance against it? If hardly anyone uses it then the toxicity that can come from it is minimal, at best. Hence, no reason to take it away from those of us who do make good use of it.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > that was my point earlier, eureka (except ofc if they don't have a meter they don't have their 'smoking gun' lol)

> >

> > Except ofc they do lol. Like I (and many others) have already said. But I guess when some data doesn't fit your belief you simply disregard it, eh?

>

> what belief exactly? Meters can be abused (fact), meters add little value to the majority of the game population (fact) MMorpgs suffer from meter abuse (fact) remove the meter, hardly anyone uses it anyway, job done. Fact not belief, fact.

 

Ok provide the indisputable proof to your claims of all these "facts".

 

Burden of proof lies with the claimant

[Makai.3429]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > How is it hyperbole if I'm basing this off my personal experiences? I've encountered more abelists in GW2 than UO, DaOC, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Guild Wars 1, FFXIV, and kitten, even The Sims Online, put together.

> > >

> > > That's exactly the hyperbole. IF you don't see your post as hyperbole then you probably don't know what hyperbole is.

> >

> > Ok. Let's try again. Out of the games I mentioned, not once was I ever booted because of my disability. In GW2 it happens all the time, and I'm tired of it. Not hyperbole.

> You are drunk and I don't believe you.

>

> I don't believe anyone would flat out boot you because you are disabled. And if they do I am positive it's something like "sorry bud".

>

> Maybe it's the way you present your disability.

> "IAMDISABLED YOU MUST CATER TO THIS OR YOU ARE ABLEIST SCUM"

>

> I mean I am genuinely curious. Not saying you are like that. But I have seen a fair share of entitled angry bitter disabled players.

>

> And it kitten sure. But people need to still be aware of how they manifest their frustrations.

>

> I am not the best at it. But still aware.

>

 

I clearly and respectfully tell people where I struggle in certain areas before we get started. For example, the boss in the Chaos Fractal is incredibly challenging because of my limitations, so I let people know in advance I have trouble with it. Please don't mistake my grievances for wanting to be carried. I'm proud of my many accomplishments in games throughout my life, especially considering my debilities, and the idea of being carried makes me nauseous - in GW1, I carried others through the most challenging PvE content, and to be reduced to this state for reasons that aren't my fault has destroyed my enjoyment of this game and life in general.

 

Guild Wars 2 is the only game I've played in which I've struggled so much (I'm a master of Hotline Miami, Devil May Cry/Megaman fanatic, and beat MGS3: Subsistence on European Extreme a few years back), and it's frustrating because so many players say it's easy and go out of their way to shame people like me who struggle. I'd love to get better at this game, but I can't tell my hands and eyes to "gitgudl2p" as so many have callously suggested to me.

[Wolfheart.7483]

> @Wolfheart.7483 said:

> > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > that was my point earlier, eureka (except ofc if they don't have a meter they don't have their 'smoking gun' lol)

> > >

> > > Except ofc they do lol. Like I (and many others) have already said. But I guess when some data doesn't fit your belief you simply disregard it, eh?

> >

> > what belief exactly? Meters can be abused (fact), meters add little value to the majority of the game population (fact) MMorpgs suffer from meter abuse (fact) remove the meter, hardly anyone uses it anyway, job done. Fact not belief, fact.

>

> Meters adding little value to the majority of the population is a guess, not a fact. I would concur that is probably the case but it still can't be definitively proven, hence it isn't a fact.

>

> But *if* hardly anyone uses it then why do you have such a strong stance against it? If hardly anyone uses it then the toxicity that can come from it is minimal, at best. Hence, no reason to take it away from those of us who do make good use of it.

 

I would also add that it is a fact that meters *can* be abused but that doesn't show any factual proof of if, when and how often they are abused.

 

Fact: You could go walk into a store and steal something.

Does that prove that you will?

[Feanor.2358]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > that was my point earlier, eureka (except ofc if they don't have a meter they don't have their 'smoking gun' lol)

> >

> > Except ofc they do lol. Like I (and many others) have already said. But I guess when some data doesn't fit your belief you simply disregard it, eh?

>

> what belief exactly?

 

This one: "MMorpgs suffer from meter abuse".

 

Is not a fact, it's a belief. And a wrong one at that. Games don't suffer any more than from abusing other user interface, which is an integral part of the game. Which makes your whole point invalid.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @Feanor.2358 said:

> > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > that was my point earlier, eureka (except ofc if they don't have a meter they don't have their 'smoking gun' lol)

> > >

> > > Except ofc they do lol. Like I (and many others) have already said. But I guess when some data doesn't fit your belief you simply disregard it, eh?

> >

> > what belief exactly?

>

> This one: "MMorpgs suffer from meter abuse".

>

> Is not a fact, it's a belief. And a wrong one at that. Games don't suffer any more than from abusing other user interface, which is an integral part of the game. Which makes your whole point invalid.

 

eh? where did the 'any more than abusing other user interface' strawman popup from, we are only talking about dps meters here.

 

Lets make it simple, the minority that use meters don't care (or plain deny) about the negatives effects to the population at large because they want meters.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Makai.3429 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > > How is it hyperbole if I'm basing this off my personal experiences? I've encountered more abelists in GW2 than UO, DaOC, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Guild Wars 1, FFXIV, and kitten, even The Sims Online, put together.

> > > >

> > > > That's exactly the hyperbole. IF you don't see your post as hyperbole then you probably don't know what hyperbole is.

> > >

> > > Ok. Let's try again. Out of the games I mentioned, not once was I ever booted because of my disability. In GW2 it happens all the time, and I'm tired of it. Not hyperbole.

> > You are drunk and I don't believe you.

> >

> > I don't believe anyone would flat out boot you because you are disabled. And if they do I am positive it's something like "sorry bud".

> >

> > Maybe it's the way you present your disability.

> > "IAMDISABLED YOU MUST CATER TO THIS OR YOU ARE ABLEIST SCUM"

> >

> > I mean I am genuinely curious. Not saying you are like that. But I have seen a fair share of entitled angry bitter disabled players.

> >

> > And it kitten sure. But people need to still be aware of how they manifest their frustrations.

> >

> > I am not the best at it. But still aware.

> >

>

> I clearly and respectfully tell people where I struggle in certain areas before we get started. For example, the boss in the Chaos Fractal is incredibly challenging because of my limitations, so I let people know in advance I have trouble with it. Please don't mistake my grievances for wanting to be carried. I'm proud of my many accomplishments in games throughout my life, especially considering my debilities, and the idea of being carried makes me nauseous - in GW1, I carried others through the most challenging PvE content, and to be reduced to this state for reasons that aren't my fault has destroyed my enjoyment of this game and life in general.

>

> Guild Wars 2 is the only game I've played in which I've struggled so much (I'm a master of Hotline Miami and beat MGS3: Subsistence on European Extreme a few years back), and it's frustrating because so many players say it's easy and go out of their way to shame people like me who struggle. I'd love to get better at this game, but I can't tell my hands and eyes to "gitgudl2p" as so many have callously suggested to me.

 

I understand you. But what I was saying is how umm sypmatico you no you YOU but people in general) are with team. I'm not talking about ability but personality.

 

Obviously you can't get better. So... I don't get why someone would tell you to l2p Lol.. . That makes no sense.

 

 

[Wolfheart.7483]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > that was my point earlier, eureka (except ofc if they don't have a meter they don't have their 'smoking gun' lol)

> > > >

> > > > Except ofc they do lol. Like I (and many others) have already said. But I guess when some data doesn't fit your belief you simply disregard it, eh?

> > >

> > > what belief exactly?

> >

> > This one: "MMorpgs suffer from meter abuse".

> >

> > Is not a fact, it's a belief. And a wrong one at that. Games don't suffer any more than from abusing other user interface, which is an integral part of the game. Which makes your whole point invalid.

>

> eh? where did the 'any more than abusing other user interface' strawman popup from, we are only talking about dps meters here.

>

> Lets make it simple, the minority that use meters don't care (or plain deny) about the negatives effects to the population at large because they want meters.

 

Incorrect. You apparently didn't care to read, or simply want to deny, what many of us have tried to explain. The negative aspects you refer to are coming from the players, not the tools. Remove a DPS meter, the negatives will still be there.

[Makai.3429]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > > > How is it hyperbole if I'm basing this off my personal experiences? I've encountered more abelists in GW2 than UO, DaOC, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Guild Wars 1, FFXIV, and kitten, even The Sims Online, put together.

> > > > >

> > > > > That's exactly the hyperbole. IF you don't see your post as hyperbole then you probably don't know what hyperbole is.

> > > >

> > > > Ok. Let's try again. Out of the games I mentioned, not once was I ever booted because of my disability. In GW2 it happens all the time, and I'm tired of it. Not hyperbole.

> > > You are drunk and I don't believe you.

> > >

> > > I don't believe anyone would flat out boot you because you are disabled. And if they do I am positive it's something like "sorry bud".

> > >

> > > Maybe it's the way you present your disability.

> > > "IAMDISABLED YOU MUST CATER TO THIS OR YOU ARE ABLEIST SCUM"

> > >

> > > I mean I am genuinely curious. Not saying you are like that. But I have seen a fair share of entitled angry bitter disabled players.

> > >

> > > And it kitten sure. But people need to still be aware of how they manifest their frustrations.

> > >

> > > I am not the best at it. But still aware.

> > >

> >

> > I clearly and respectfully tell people where I struggle in certain areas before we get started. For example, the boss in the Chaos Fractal is incredibly challenging because of my limitations, so I let people know in advance I have trouble with it. Please don't mistake my grievances for wanting to be carried. I'm proud of my many accomplishments in games throughout my life, especially considering my debilities, and the idea of being carried makes me nauseous - in GW1, I carried others through the most challenging PvE content, and to be reduced to this state for reasons that aren't my fault has destroyed my enjoyment of this game and life in general.

> >

> > Guild Wars 2 is the only game I've played in which I've struggled so much (I'm a master of Hotline Miami and beat MGS3: Subsistence on European Extreme a few years back), and it's frustrating because so many players say it's easy and go out of their way to shame people like me who struggle. I'd love to get better at this game, but I can't tell my hands and eyes to "gitgudl2p" as so many have callously suggested to me.

>

> I understand you. But what I was saying is how umm sypmatico you no you YOU but people in general) are with team. I'm not talking about ability but personality.

>

> Obviously you can't get better. So... I don't get why someone would tell you to l2p Lol.. . That makes no sense.

>

>

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > > > How is it hyperbole if I'm basing this off my personal experiences? I've encountered more abelists in GW2 than UO, DaOC, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Guild Wars 1, FFXIV, and kitten, even The Sims Online, put together.

> > > > >

> > > > > That's exactly the hyperbole. IF you don't see your post as hyperbole then you probably don't know what hyperbole is.

> > > >

> > > > Ok. Let's try again. Out of the games I mentioned, not once was I ever booted because of my disability. In GW2 it happens all the time, and I'm tired of it. Not hyperbole.

> > > You are drunk and I don't believe you.

> > >

> > > I don't believe anyone would flat out boot you because you are disabled. And if they do I am positive it's something like "sorry bud".

> > >

> > > Maybe it's the way you present your disability.

> > > "IAMDISABLED YOU MUST CATER TO THIS OR YOU ARE ABLEIST SCUM"

> > >

> > > I mean I am genuinely curious. Not saying you are like that. But I have seen a fair share of entitled angry bitter disabled players.

> > >

> > > And it kitten sure. But people need to still be aware of how they manifest their frustrations.

> > >

> > > I am not the best at it. But still aware.

> > >

> >

> > I clearly and respectfully tell people where I struggle in certain areas before we get started. For example, the boss in the Chaos Fractal is incredibly challenging because of my limitations, so I let people know in advance I have trouble with it. Please don't mistake my grievances for wanting to be carried. I'm proud of my many accomplishments in games throughout my life, especially considering my debilities, and the idea of being carried makes me nauseous - in GW1, I carried others through the most challenging PvE content, and to be reduced to this state for reasons that aren't my fault has destroyed my enjoyment of this game and life in general.

> >

> > Guild Wars 2 is the only game I've played in which I've struggled so much (I'm a master of Hotline Miami and beat MGS3: Subsistence on European Extreme a few years back), and it's frustrating because so many players say it's easy and go out of their way to shame people like me who struggle. I'd love to get better at this game, but I can't tell my hands and eyes to "gitgudl2p" as so many have callously suggested to me.

>

> I understand you. But what I was saying is how umm sypmatico you no you YOU but people in general) are with team. I'm not talking about ability but personality.

>

> Obviously you can't get better. So... I don't get why someone would tell you to l2p Lol.. . That makes no sense.

>

>

 

I tend to rage a lot when I get into down state, but I always direct the anger at myself rather than others. As for telling me to l2p, well, it's easier to insult someone than empathize with them, especially in online content.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @lmaogg.7325 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > For the record I am 100% ok with dps meters and I'm a casual scrub.

> >

> > Here's the thing... dps meters are not "toxic"

> > Some players who use them are.

> >

> > Take away dps meters and what are you left with? Hm?

> >

> > What?

> >

> > Oh yeah! that SAME player still being a kitten because GUESS WHAT he was an kitten BEDORE DPS METERS .

>

> Nope. You remove it and we as a community have 1 lesser reason having to deal with those kitten. And they have 1 lesser excuse to be a d1ck to others.

> Simple fact.

 

Lol What? Dicks will be dicks wether they have dps meters or not.

 

I don't think you know what "fact" means.

You are not living in the realm of reality and now I will ignore you from this point on as an illogical and hysterical being.

 

[Feanor.2358]

You're talking about dps meters, and you're basing your argument on consequences (facts) *which exist anyway* (also a fact, again, historically proven). Meaning you're talking about causation which doesn't exist. It doesn't even exist as a correlation, for the very same reason. Your whole position is based on that non-existing relation, which makes it nothing more than an empty belief.

[Fermi.2409]

> @Makai.3429 said:

> I tend to rage a lot when I get into down state, but I always direct the anger at myself rather than others. As for telling me to l2p, well, it's easier to insult someone than empathize with them, especially in online content.

 

So you're having poor performance in the fractals (no matter the cause) and are raging into chat, and you're blaming the other people for kicking you? There's clearly more here then you were originally trying to lead people to believe

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @Makai.3429 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > > > > How is it hyperbole if I'm basing this off my personal experiences? I've encountered more abelists in GW2 than UO, DaOC, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Guild Wars 1, FFXIV, and kitten, even The Sims Online, put together.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's exactly the hyperbole. IF you don't see your post as hyperbole then you probably don't know what hyperbole is.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ok. Let's try again. Out of the games I mentioned, not once was I ever booted because of my disability. In GW2 it happens all the time, and I'm tired of it. Not hyperbole.

> > > > You are drunk and I don't believe you.

> > > >

> > > > I don't believe anyone would flat out boot you because you are disabled. And if they do I am positive it's something like "sorry bud".

> > > >

> > > > Maybe it's the way you present your disability.

> > > > "IAMDISABLED YOU MUST CATER TO THIS OR YOU ARE ABLEIST SCUM"

> > > >

> > > > I mean I am genuinely curious. Not saying you are like that. But I have seen a fair share of entitled angry bitter disabled players.

> > > >

> > > > And it kitten sure. But people need to still be aware of how they manifest their frustrations.

> > > >

> > > > I am not the best at it. But still aware.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I clearly and respectfully tell people where I struggle in certain areas before we get started. For example, the boss in the Chaos Fractal is incredibly challenging because of my limitations, so I let people know in advance I have trouble with it. Please don't mistake my grievances for wanting to be carried. I'm proud of my many accomplishments in games throughout my life, especially considering my debilities, and the idea of being carried makes me nauseous - in GW1, I carried others through the most challenging PvE content, and to be reduced to this state for reasons that aren't my fault has destroyed my enjoyment of this game and life in general.

> > >

> > > Guild Wars 2 is the only game I've played in which I've struggled so much (I'm a master of Hotline Miami and beat MGS3: Subsistence on European Extreme a few years back), and it's frustrating because so many players say it's easy and go out of their way to shame people like me who struggle. I'd love to get better at this game, but I can't tell my hands and eyes to "gitgudl2p" as so many have callously suggested to me.

> >

> > I understand you. But what I was saying is how umm sypmatico you no you YOU but people in general) are with team. I'm not talking about ability but personality.

> >

> > Obviously you can't get better. So... I don't get why someone would tell you to l2p Lol.. . That makes no sense.

> >

> >

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > > > > @Makai.3429 said:

> > > > > > > How is it hyperbole if I'm basing this off my personal experiences? I've encountered more abelists in GW2 than UO, DaOC, Star Wars Galaxies, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, WoW, Guild Wars 1, FFXIV, and kitten, even The Sims Online, put together.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's exactly the hyperbole. IF you don't see your post as hyperbole then you probably don't know what hyperbole is.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ok. Let's try again. Out of the games I mentioned, not once was I ever booted because of my disability. In GW2 it happens all the time, and I'm tired of it. Not hyperbole.

> > > > You are drunk and I don't believe you.

> > > >

> > > > I don't believe anyone would flat out boot you because you are disabled. And if they do I am positive it's something like "sorry bud".

> > > >

> > > > Maybe it's the way you present your disability.

> > > > "IAMDISABLED YOU MUST CATER TO THIS OR YOU ARE ABLEIST SCUM"

> > > >

> > > > I mean I am genuinely curious. Not saying you are like that. But I have seen a fair share of entitled angry bitter disabled players.

> > > >

> > > > And it kitten sure. But people need to still be aware of how they manifest their frustrations.

> > > >

> > > > I am not the best at it. But still aware.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I clearly and respectfully tell people where I struggle in certain areas before we get started. For example, the boss in the Chaos Fractal is incredibly challenging because of my limitations, so I let people know in advance I have trouble with it. Please don't mistake my grievances for wanting to be carried. I'm proud of my many accomplishments in games throughout my life, especially considering my debilities, and the idea of being carried makes me nauseous - in GW1, I carried others through the most challenging PvE content, and to be reduced to this state for reasons that aren't my fault has destroyed my enjoyment of this game and life in general.

> > >

> > > Guild Wars 2 is the only game I've played in which I've struggled so much (I'm a master of Hotline Miami and beat MGS3: Subsistence on European Extreme a few years back), and it's frustrating because so many players say it's easy and go out of their way to shame people like me who struggle. I'd love to get better at this game, but I can't tell my hands and eyes to "gitgudl2p" as so many have callously suggested to me.

> >

> > I understand you. But what I was saying is how umm sypmatico you no you YOU but people in general) are with team. I'm not talking about ability but personality.

> >

> > Obviously you can't get better. So... I don't get why someone would tell you to l2p Lol.. . That makes no sense.

> >

> >

>

> I tend to rage a lot when I get into down state, but I always direct the anger at myself rather than others. As for telling me to l2p, well, it's easier to insult someone than empathize with them, especially in online content.

 

But that litetally makes no sense!

It's like telling a blind man to use his eyes.

 

Haha wow. Anyway what is your disability out of curiosity?