Please understand that Reaper Shroud is a subpar defense to begin with...

[Tzozef.9841]

Very good feedback

[silent killer.5732]

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> In light of the recent changes, I'll attempt to explain why Reaper Shroud needs some baseline changes desperately...

>

> **Other classes have access to:**

>

> * Invulnerabilities

> * Blocks

> * Strong overtime sustain heals

> * Boons spam

> * Evade spams

> * Invisibilities

> * Teleports / Blinks

> * etc.

>

> **Reaper has access to:**

>

> * Shroud

>

> Unlike the defenses available on other classes, Reaper Shroud is a non-scaling form of defense that gets destroyed faster the more damage it takes.

>

>  

>

> There are 2 significant changes recently that really wrecks a Reaper's ability to defend himself.

>

>  

>

> > **Shroud Cooldown reduction changed from 7 seconds traited to 10 seconds**

>

> This is a nerf because Reaper's main form of defense is effectively left on a 10 seconds cooldown the moment he leaves Shroud. For 10 seconds, we are extremely vulnerable. In that period, we need to chain dodges, skills, utilities, to survive. **To make matters worse, most of our weapon skills and utilities are offensive in nature.** Even the more defensive ones are subpar compared to other classes.

>

> **Look at how other classes can chain evades, blinks, blocks, invulnerability etc. for long periods of damage immunity while doing damage at the same time and compare that to a Reaper losing his main form of defense for 10 seconds.**

>

>  

>

> > **Reaper Shroud: Increased life-force consumption rate from 3% per second to 5% per second.**

>

> Shroud decay was a terrible idea to begin with when you consider that Shroud is a non-scaling defense. To increase the decay just makes things even less defendable. Shroud gets destroyed even faster now when enemies are piling their damage on you and you add the increased decay rate to that mix.

>

> Not just that, but the decay is pegged to a percentage, meaning added vitality won't help us much here because everything goes at a percentage and not a fixed shroud amount.

>

>  

>

> > **What is the idea behind Shroud? Are we supposed to camp shroud or flash in and out of Shroud to burst?**

>

> When you compare both the recent changes above, I'm really left puzzled over what the idea is behind the Shroud mechanic.

>

> * If we're supposed to flash in and out of Shroud to burst, then we are robbed of using it as our main form of Defense when the cooldown is 10 seconds which is too long.

> * If we're supposed to camp in Shroud to do damage and defend at the same time, then the decay makes it terrible because Shroud doesn't scale against damage taken and it is easily kited

>

>  

>

> **Quoting from the recent patch notes:**

>

> > We drastically increased the damage of all shroud attacks while simultaneously increasing the rate at which life force is lost while in shroud. These changes are aimed at allowing the reaper to output more damage at the cost of some defense.

>

> * What is the point of increasing damage output when enemies can kite our Shroud form easily and we can't land the damage?

> * What is the point of increasing Shroud damage when we now can't stay in Shroud as long as before, allowing enemies shorter windows to negate our Shroud damage and kite us or just burst us out of Shroud.

>

> More damage at the cost of **some defense**? Our defense is already terrible to begin with.

>

> When you consider that we have to spec glassier power builds to match the DPS of other classes but not have access to a scaling defense, and the shroud duration gets nerfed for even lesser shroud uptime and even worse defense by extension...and you add the lost of the 7 seconds Shroud CD recharge to the mix, effectively locking us out of our main form of defense for 10 whole seconds...

>

>  

>

> **Please make these baseline**

>

> * make Shroud CD 7 seconds

> * Remove shroud decay totally

 

Get ready for none necros to say ( dodge)

Like of we don't know what its the dodge and we all just face tank any damage with our shroud

 

I have said that in many different occasions

We don't have anything other classes has

All we have is the shroud and now they started by Gavin us the sand well and so we begin to play without our shroud as second life bar

And when they balance the damage of the reaper to match the Power of the rest of classes

They did what they always want to do

 

 

They killed the shroud by making it drains 3 faster

 

 

Im 100% fine with removing the shroud but we need instead

 

Teleporting and stealth and more importantly we need block and resistance

 

 

[Azzara Nectum.1734]

My friend send me the copied text from the patch notes today and I couldn't believe it at first: damage buff on Reaper.. Seriously??

I read about the changes and the shroud decay, and thought: "well okay, shroud will go a away a bit faster but the increased damage surely will compensate"...

Finally I found a reason to play again ...

I adapted my build, kept the toughness I had before, and went out to eplore the world... Only to have my ass handed to me... I died in parts of the map I could faceroll before simply because my sponge ran out faster than I though imaginable..

This shroud decay is beyond reasonable.. Few seconds and it's gone.. This is horrible!! Worst part is that I'm talking PvE here, open world exploration.. The damage there already wrecked shroud, I can't even imagine what PvP must be like..

 

If only we had other active defensive options to use when shroud is on CD... But we don't and from my POV Anet will never give it to Necro..

 

> @EremiteAngel.9765 said:

> In light of the recent changes, I'll attempt to explain why Reaper Shroud needs some baseline changes desperately...

>

> **Other classes have access to:**

>

> * Invulnerabilities

> * Blocks

> * Strong overtime sustain heals

> * Boons spam

> * Evade spams

> * Invisibilities

> * Teleports / Blinks

> * etc.

>

> **Reaper has access to:**

>

> * Shroud

>

> Unlike the defenses available on other classes, Reaper Shroud is a non-scaling form of defense that gets destroyed faster the more damage it takes.

>

>  

>

> There are 2 significant changes recently that really wrecks a Reaper's ability to defend himself.

>

>  

>

> > **Shroud Cooldown reduction changed from 7 seconds traited to 10 seconds**

>

> This is a nerf because Reaper's main form of defense is effectively left on a 10 seconds cooldown the moment he leaves Shroud. For 10 seconds, we are extremely vulnerable. In that period, we need to chain dodges, skills, utilities, to survive. **To make matters worse, most of our weapon skills and utilities are offensive in nature.** Even the more defensive ones are subpar compared to other classes.

 

>  

>

> > **Reaper Shroud: Increased life-force consumption rate from 3% per second to 5% per second.**

>

> Shroud decay was a terrible idea to begin with when you consider that Shroud is a non-scaling defense. To increase the decay just makes things even less defendable. Shroud gets destroyed even faster now when enemies are piling their damage on you and you add the increased decay rate to that mix.

>

> **Quoting from the recent patch notes:**

>

> > We drastically increased the damage of all shroud attacks while simultaneously increasing the rate at which life force is lost while in shroud. These changes are aimed at allowing the reaper to output more damage at the cost of some defense.

>

> * What is the point of increasing damage output when enemies can kite our Shroud form easily and we can't land the damage?

> * What is the point of increasing Shroud damage when we now can't stay in Shroud as long as before, allowing enemies shorter windows to negate our Shroud damage and kite us or just burst us out of Shroud.

>

> More damage at the cost of **some defense**? Our defense is already terrible to begin with.

>

> When you consider that we have to spec glassier power builds to match the DPS of other classes but not have access to a scaling defense, and the shroud duration gets nerfed for even lesser shroud uptime and even worse defense by extension...and you add the lost of the 7 seconds Shroud CD recharge to the mix, effectively locking us out of our main form of defense for 10 whole seconds...

>

>  

>

> **Please make these baseline**

>

> * make Shroud CD 7 seconds

> * Remove shroud decay totally

 

So yes, you're 100% on the mark..

 

Reaper is a LIGHT ARMOUR class MELEE bruiser WITHOUT ACTIVE DEFENSE!! How can you justify a light armour class playing an in-your-face, close range melee spec without providing ways to mitigate insane amounts of damage??

Maybe it's even time to upgrade Necro to medium armour??

 

C'MON ANET!!!! YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS!!!

[hurrado.2346]

Shroud decay is absolutely pointless with the amount of time it takes to build up life force, the cool down of shroud and the fact that every class does massive amounts of damage, erasing shroud immediately. I can't believe they thought it was a good idea to increase the passive decay instead of removing it, I feel like they want to pidgeonhole the class into only being viable if you play scourge.

[Crinn.7864]

They need to skill split the degeration rate between sPvP and PvE.

 

The high degeration is needed in PvE where mobs deal little damage, but in PvP the heavy degeration makes counter pressuring shroud way too easy.

 

 

[ilmau.9781]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> They need to skill split the degeration rate between sPvP and PvE.

>

> The high degeration is needed in PvE where mobs deal little damage, but in PvP the heavy degeration makes counter pressuring shroud way too easy.

>

>

 

in WvW is even worst, you simply can not stay alive. Reaper is a dead class in WvW right now. Anet decided to kill it, and i am still trying to figure out the reasons.

 

And play scourge is just spam around shades in an endless pirate sheep meta so this is dead boring.

[Svarty.8019]

> @ilmau.9781 said:

> in WvW is even worst, you simply can not stay alive. Reaper is a dead class in WvW right now. Anet decided to kill it, and i am still trying to figure out the reasons.

 

Yep, I'm having a great time on my old zerker ranger pewpewing Reapers in WvW because I know they're so weak now :) hahahahaaa. What a joke!

 

[ilmau.9781]

> @Svarty.8019 said:

> > @ilmau.9781 said:

> > in WvW is even worst, you simply can not stay alive. Reaper is a dead class in WvW right now. Anet decided to kill it, and i am still trying to figure out the reasons.

>

> Yep, I'm having a great time on my old zerker ranger pewpewing Reapers in WvW because I know they're so weak now :) hahahahaaa. What a joke!

>

 

I am going to get one ranged class up and running soon, play melee is impossible anyway whatever class you try.

 

Now meta in WvW is 100% ranged with Zerk Ravenant, Dire Scourge and Zerk Weavers and Eles so even get in melee range is almost impossible.

 

Very funny. Can't wait to log and play.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> They need to skill split the degeration rate between sPvP and PvE.

>

> The high degeration is needed in PvE where mobs deal little damage, but in PvP the heavy degeration makes counter pressuring shroud way too easy.

>

>

 

May I ask you sir why exactly a higher shroud degen would matter at all in PvE? Mobs dealing little damage you are certainly joking right? The reality is that shroud degen exist mainly to create some kind of survivability balance in PvP/WvW not to satisfy the non existent ego of PvE AI mobs. By no way, a high degeneration is "needed" in PvE. However, to ensure an image of higher risk/higher reward against other player, anet decided to make the reaper shroud cost more LF.

 

I'm personnally thinking that trying to keep this 2nd life bar at all cost is one out of many bad choice that anet keep in the necromancer's design.

[Vitali.5039]

> @Dadnir.5038 said:

> I'm personnally thinking that trying to keep this 2nd life bar at all cost is one out of many bad choice that anet keep in the necromancer's design.

They could keep it but also thinking about new ways to use life force.

For example: making minions skills cost life force on summon, reducing their casting time to 0,5 seconds and removing their CD

 

PvE damage with Bone Minions(20% lf)/Bone Fiend(20% lf)/Shadow Fiend(20% lf) aaaaand mobility with Flash Wurm(30% lf)!

ps. Blood Fiend (30% lf), Flash Golem (40% lf)

 

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @Vitali.5039 said:

> > @Dadnir.5038 said:

> > I'm personnally thinking that trying to keep this 2nd life bar at all cost is one out of many bad choice that anet keep in the necromancer's design.

> They could keep it but also thinking about new ways to use life force.

> For example: making minions skills cost life force on summon, reducing their casting time to 0,5 seconds and removing their CD

>

> PvE damage with Bone Minions(20% lf)/Bone Fiend(20% lf)/Shadow Fiend(20% lf) aaaaand mobility with Flash Wurm(30% lf)!

> ps. Blood Fiend (30% lf), Flash Golem (40% lf)

>

>

>

 

I'm not talking about the LF pool, the issue that i'm pointing is the way it work as a 2nd life bar. 1 life bar is enough, LF should just be a fuel for a strong dps weaponset or a useful utility weaponset. Our issue have always been this extra survivability granted by the shroud that conflict with the shroud as a whole.

 

Honnestly, minion with a LF cost would feel like a ridiculous nerf that would be the icing on the cake for the necromancer. Change like that may look like good flavor but let's be honest minion are underwhelming and the only real thing that keep them afloat is the ridiculous amount of health they grant to their master thanks to _vampiric_. Flesh wurm is a subpar mobility skill, golem still don't know how to swim, bone minion are the most frustrating blast finisher of the game (maybe even with the staff mark), bone fiend is almost bearable, shadow fiend and blood fiend find their use. No, if I had to pay some LF to use them, it would really hurt my feeling.

[Ziooo.8932]

Well, now reaper's and core necros have as shitty of a defense as scourge! Or so... idk. Would be funny if it turns out that barrier has been indirectly buffed in the devs eyes because the "other necros" defense's been thorn to shreds ;)

[ilmau.9781]

> @Ziooo.8932 said:

> Well, now reaper's and core necros have as kitten of a defense as scourge! Or so... idk. Would be funny if it turns out that barrier has been indirectly buffed in the devs eyes because the "other necros" defense's been thorn to shreds ;)

 

Actually only the Reaper Shroud got decay increas from 3% to %5, the Death Shroud (the core necro one) is still at 3%.

 

RS also got nerfed a couple skills who were providing life force, but Necro Shroud is kinda useless due to the bad skills it have, to sum up, this is bad.

 

But we are happy!!! we can play Scourge who is ultrabroken and spam F1-2-3-4-5- and reapet and loot our bags!!! Hypeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Ellisande.5218]

OPer understands the problem. Now if only Anet did except we know they didn't since they are the ones who just fked up Reaper Shroud.

 

I have no doubt that this is just another example of why you CANNOT HAVE PVP AND PVE in the same game. THE TWO SIMPLY CANNOT COEXIST. EITHER MAKE A PVP OR PVE GAME. YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH. PVP CHANGES UNFAIRLY FK US OVER IN PVE AND WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS IN PVE BECAUSE THE PVP KIDS CRY.

[ilmau.9781]

> @Ellisande.5218 said:

> OPer understands the problem. Now if only Anet did except we know they didn't since they are the ones who just kitten up Reaper Shroud.

>

> I have no doubt that this is just another example of why you CANNOT HAVE PVP AND PVE in the same game. THE TWO SIMPLY CANNOT COEXIST. EITHER MAKE A PVP OR PVE GAME. YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH. PVP CHANGES UNFAIRLY kitten US OVER IN PVE AND WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS IN PVE BECAUSE THE PVP KIDS CRY.

 

i partially agree with you, but more than that i honestly do not understand why change so much of a class all at once!!! i mean some tweaks are fine but what they did here is something totally different, like a whole new class, and they also removed what he was to begin with in the process. So basically for me it is possible to have pve and pvp in same game, they just need to learn to listen to the playerbase and do what we ask for, we are paying customers after all.