Are Mounts Necessary?

[Shiyo.3578]

The way scaling works for zones below level 80 is why I refuse to ever do dailies outside of 80 zones or even play in sub-80 zones besides map completion,. It's really boring to 1 shot things with zero effort, I wish scaling actually worked properly.

[jia li ng.8415]

F2P players can't shout out on map chat, and I don't run around wearing an apple or commander tag, that's not my style of play. I spend more of my time either Grinding resources in Orr or in the new expansion Path of Fire. When I have done all that I felt necessary to accomplish, depending on my mood I might re-roll a character, or challenge myself in WvW or farming Champions (generally best when there are at least two of us). The off chance I do re-roll is the time I spend mainly watching players, the use of their playstyle (you never know where or when you can learn something new from another player) and how players react to situations. I read the map chat, but I don't report players for dropping bombs (though maybe I should).

Witnessing the use of Mounts in 1-15 zones and how some players chose to use them is a concern, but I know eventually I'll be able to accept it as the norm because a of those few it will expand. I know that those who want to parade around in 1-15 zones on Mounts will continue to do so even long after their so called purpose for doing so is forgotten, and it really doesn't matter.

 

I stated at the very onset of this discussion that Mounts in the 1-15 zones was, is, and will always be a marketing strategy to entice F2P to pay up, even though Mounts serve no purpose in 1-15 zones unless it is just to show off.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> F2P players can't shout out on map chat, and I don't run around wearing an apple or commander tag, that's not my style of play. I spend more of my time either Grinding resources in Orr or in the new expansion Path of Fire.

So explain if more of your time is not even in 1-15 how can you really fight for that area? I could at least speak about it as most of my time IS in there mainly due to making new characters and trying new classes and such. At least the areas under 30 are the areas I'm in most of my time if it's not PoF.

 

> When I have done all that I felt necessary to accomplish, depending on my mood I might re-roll a character, or challenge myself in WvW or farming Champions (generally best when there are at least two of us).

Can partially relate on the re-rolling even though I've rarely done it other than as I've said retrying different classes over and over again.

 

> The off chance I do re-roll is the time I spend mainly watching players, the use of their playstyle (you never know where or when you can learn something new from another player) and how players react to situations. I read the map chat, but I don't report players for dropping bombs (though maybe I should).

That doesn't sound creepy at all. Also don't get why you need to re-roll to spit on players in the low level areas. Can easily do that as a level 80.

The next is kind of weird to even see the "use of their playstyle" as you're talking about players who will at most just have 1 to 5 attacks and 1 or no utilities or skills. There is only so much you can do with that kind of situation. Weapons yeah, but that can be seen everywhere. Like... I know I'm not the only one, but I'm the only person I see as a Guardian that uses the longbow (I use the Axe/Sword + Torch too, but I like the Longbow).

 

> Witnessing the use of Mounts in 1-15 zones and how some players chose to use them is a concern, but I know eventually I'll be able to accept it as the norm because a of those few it will expand. I know that those who want to parade around in 1-15 zones on Mounts will continue to do so even long after their so called purpose for doing so is forgotten, and it really doesn't matter.

"how come of the players chose to use them is a concern."

Now you're sounding like those lawmakers in America that want to ban guns/assault weapons because of a few people. It's also like trying to get mad at some people who might mod a game to add certain things like a nude mod (don't know if that word would show up as kitten but if it does, it's just the synonym for naked.. unless that changes to kitten also. Birthday Suit Mod? That shouldn't turn into kitten... either way...) or whichever.

Or certain people who would play a certain way and look for exploits until those exploits are removed/patched/changed. The thing is certain things will have it restrictions and certain situations where you can go, "Okay, here you shouldn't do that.", which is understandable.

Some jumping puzzles stop mounts and or gliders. Some one or the other. Some don't at all. There WILL be those that go in those that has 0 restriction and say, "I rather do it without glider and/or mount. Even if I have them." Then there's some that go "I will do 2 jumps with my Springer and complete it right away." You can't look at those and go "HEY! DON'T DO THAT!" If Arenanet chose that, then that's how it is. Arenanet did went in and made sure which situations they think "That's fine. Let the mount be used here." and other they go, "Noooo no no no that too much. We have to put our foot down at some points and set limits."

And the next thing is, if the only concern you're thinking on is just events and a few killings... which once again I have not seen much of that at all... then that's not a decent argument.

Here's the thing, no matter if in game or in the real world. There are things like trolls. You can't stop them though.

 

A troll can decide and stay out of a distance like... let's say I wanted to troll as the Guardian. I could go right now in those low level areas like let's say queensdale near that farm overrun by wurms.

I can then wait until someone kicks a wurm mound and pop up the wurm. You get heart progress for both kicking up the mount and then more for killing the wurm. I could easily just stand near that person and one shot those wurms with my Longbow from a distance. They wouldn't be able to outrun me either because even if they used a pistol or a short/longbow or whatever... the thing is to trigger the wurm to come out, you have to be in close range. I can just stay off a distance and pick them off making their life a living hell.

With a mount? I could do the same, but even then it might be even harder because the mounts have a little bit of an animation before their attack hits. I can do it much faster with the autoattack on a ranged weapon.

 

Same for if someone is heading for a target coming at them or whatever. The problem isn't mounts. It would be the few trolls that just inconsiderate. What's the best option you have? Honestly? Is to close the servers. You will not stop someone from doing messed up things. Ever. As long as they find a way. They will do it.

>

> I stated at the very onset of this discussion that Mounts in the 1-15 zones was, is, and will always be a marketing strategy to entice F2P to pay up, even though Mounts serve no purpose in 1-15 zones unless it is just to show off.

It serves me great purpose as one of the starting areas I loathe is Wayfarar and while I still can't stand it (to be fair I don't think I like Shiverpeak at all other than the Kodans...), the mounts make that area somewhat bearable.

...Kodans... bear.... WHATEVER! YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!

[jia li ng.8415]

Playstyle: How a player interfaces with their surroundings, are they playing like they have their feet anchored in concrete? does the player use finesse?

... yeah really creepy, weird, and strange. You can tell a lot about a player by their style of play, you can spot a veteran of Guild Wars or a rookie from Warcraft with just a few minutes of observation. Within the game I prefer to match the level of my character to the zones I intend on running, though sometimes I'll be a little over leveled but sometimes I push a character into a zone where I know if I make a mistake I'll be downed (a level 8 in Kessex Hills for example). I try to keep the game interesting for myself, I've never been bored ..."Boredom is a condition of the unimaginative".

 

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Playstyle: How a player interfaces with their surroundings, are they playing like they have their feet anchored in concrete? does the player use finesse?

> ... yeah really creepy, weird, and strange. You can tell a lot about a player by their style of play, you can spot a veteran of Guild Wars or a rookie from Warcraft with just a few minutes of observation. Within the game I prefer to match the level of my character to the zones I intend on running, though sometimes I'll be a little over leveled but sometimes I push a character into a zone where I know if I make a mistake I'll be downed (a level 8 in Kessex Hills for example). I try to keep the game interesting for myself, I've never been bored ..."Boredom is a condition of the unimaginative".

>

 

Well if you saw me, you couldn't tell what the hell game I came from as I play this game as a mixture of let's say Dark Souls (I don't like Dark Souls btw), Dynasty/Samurai Warriors, Legend of Zelda, and Phantasy Star Universe/Online.

Either way it's still creepy because I can see going, "Ah. I didn't know you could do this with this item/weapon." But even then you can find that out by asking people or trying it yourself.

Going back to low level areas to see that just seems mega creepy.

[jia li ng.8415]

Recruiting duffers who can't play well is not a very good way to build a strong guild, and weak guilds are a dime a dozen. I'm sure you know of a few. Observing players playstyle is one of many tools we use before offering membership, we don't recruit trolls either.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Recruiting duffers who can't play well is not a very good way to build a strong guild, and weak guilds are a dime a dozen. I'm sure you know of a few. Observing players playstyle is one of many tools we use before offering membership, we don't recruit trolls either.

 

Oh so you're one of those spammers that either spams the map chat about recruiting people for the guild OR one of those that I've seen too many times that blindly send me guild invites out of no where in the beginning areas.

...or both...

[Astral Projections.7320]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Recruiting duffers who can't play well is not a very good way to build a strong guild, and weak guilds are a dime a dozen. I'm sure you know of a few. Observing players playstyle is one of many tools we use before offering membership, we don't recruit trolls either.

 

Soooo... You’re hanging out in the starter maps watching new people learn to play, judging them, because if they don’t do well at the very start of the game they’re “duffers” and unworthy of a guild invite.

 

TIL: that judging newbies as duffers if they don’t play well at low level is less toxic than level 80s riding around on a mount.

 

It’s amazing what can be learned on the internet

 

 

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Astral Projections.7320" said:

> > @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> > Recruiting duffers who can't play well is not a very good way to build a strong guild, and weak guilds are a dime a dozen. I'm sure you know of a few. Observing players playstyle is one of many tools we use before offering membership, we don't recruit trolls either.

>

> Soooo... You’re hanging out in the starter maps watching new people learn to play, judging them, because if they don’t do well at the very start of the game they’re “duffers” and unworthy of a guild invite.

>

> TIL: that judging newbies as duffers if they don’t play well at low level is less toxic than level 80s riding around on a mount.

>

> It’s amazing what can be learned on the internet

>

>

 

You learn something new every day. And really, that's what life is all about. #failthread #kittenlogic #preachdecencywhilejudging #blessed

(this concerns the OP, not you. :wink: )

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Astral Projections.7320" said:

> > @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> > Recruiting duffers who can't play well is not a very good way to build a strong guild, and weak guilds are a dime a dozen. I'm sure you know of a few. Observing players playstyle is one of many tools we use before offering membership, we don't recruit trolls either.

>

> Soooo... You’re hanging out in the starter maps watching new people learn to play, judging them, because if they don’t do well at the very start of the game they’re “duffers” and unworthy of a guild invite.

>

> TIL: that judging newbies as duffers if they don’t play well at low level is less toxic than level 80s riding around on a mount.

>

> It’s amazing what can be learned on the internet

>

>

 

Like I said... religious infomercial talk coming from them.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

Also, I would like to ask @"jia li ng.8415" something.

About not letting mounts and level 80s being a problem in the low level areas:

https://imgur.com/a/vZAU9

This my Sylvari in Caledon Forest due to the jumping puzzle daily today and I was already on her so "What the hell ever".

Now, she's level 80 and have 100% of HoT and PoF complete and more than half of Central completed... yet she's never been to Caledon until today (right after making her, I went right to Lion's Arch to use a Total Makeover Kit because I didn't want her to stay ugly after making her). Making her skip over Caledon completely.

 

I'll be damned to slowly go through this area later than use a mount.

Yeah yeah "Flounder" crap. Some beginning maps I just don't like and rather go through them quickly. This is one of them.

[Zephire.8049]

I have multiple world completions and of my toons that aren't there yet, I have yet more toons that have the starting zones 100%. If not for mounts, it would be extremely boring and frustrating to go back to do starting zones. I played a ton during the closed and open betas to find bugs and try to break things. I am so sick of the starting zones that I just skip them through tomes on new characters. Sure the maps are nice enough, but after a few dozen times, you just want to be done with it ASAP. Especially since the drops and mats from them are barely worth anything, so there's no mat/gold compensation to look forward to.

 

The problem, as others have pointed out, is both mount scaling (in that they really don't scale) and scaled 80's still putting out tons of damage and having all their skills. You're also ignoring that fact that even in level 60+ zones, there's always some people who absolutely destroy event mobs as the mobs spawn. It's less common, but even in 80-only maps you come across people who blow things up before you can tag them. It's just part of the game and people building open-world toons for pure burst damage.

 

Mounts are here to stay and I'll just put it out there that in all my years of playing, I have not seen starting zones this active since launch. A lot of that is new players (I have yet to see a new player complain about mounts in starting zones, btw, all the complaints I see are from vet players) but no small amount are also players who are happy to go through starting zones again thanks to mounts. So at the very least, mounts aren't hurting.

 

Sure mounts could maybe do with some damage scaling, but it's no different than going into a zone at 80 and ranging mobs down with good gear and all your skills. The simple fact is that a new player in white/blue gear with only one weapon and no utilites stands no chance against someone with gear and utilities, regardless of whether or not mounts are involved.

[Coulter.2315]

"were having a great time enjoying Guild Wars, and that they even liked the mounts"

Jia this is literally the only direct quote you have given from a F2P player, mounts being available in low level zones are exciting for F2P players to see and tempting them to buy the expansion (which is the whole point of giving F2P accounts in the first place, to give them a taste and entice them into purchase).

 

Your only evidence is that the current system is working. Everyone in this thread has suggested the only change needed is to the power of the engage attack. I think we're done here.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

Oh no not this again lol you dont want to get me started lmao With another twisted words thread put together with no thought or knowledge of the game lets ban warrior in core because he can 1 hit low level mobs......... Lets ban mounts from core tyria because people save time. Lets ban ourselves because we can't control our urges to use mounts in core tyria. Another S J W thread. Only can of worms that got open, is it gave the complainer types more to complain about.

Which is fine and dandy but what do you consider low level areas? 79 and under to me is low level areas.....

[jia li ng.8415]

...and so it goes,

again bringing the tread back on topic, it occurred again tonight "the tail swiping raptors invasion" continues

but tonight my F2P friends were readied with staves in hand to steal the events from the errant Charr ...

its seems the AoE strategy worked in Metrica Province

A Necromancer and an Elemental were able to complete their 4 events with ease

 

I actually am proud of my little Padawan's

 

It was fun to watch them working as a team slowing and burning inquest, while the raptor riding Charr was left spinning in his dust!

 

 

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> ...and so it goes,

> again bringing the tread back on topic, it occurred again tonight "the tail swiping raptors invasion" continues

> but tonight my F2P friends were readied with staves in hand to steal the events from the errant Charr ...

> its seems the AoE strategy worked in Metrica Province

> A Necromancer and an Elemental were able to complete their 4 events with ease

>

> I actually am proud of my little Padawan's

>

> It was fun to watch them working as a team slowing and burning inquest, while the raptor riding Charr was left spinning in his dust!

>

>

 

As long as everyone is having fun? Good luck on your voyage against the evil nasty dreaded mount users in the 1-15 areas.

[jia li ng.8415]

Well, I can't say the Charr had any fun, but yeah

 

Mounts aren't needed in 1-15 starting zones or for that matter wanted, there is no purpose for them to be there.

 

But there they are

 

[Squee.7829]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Well, I can't say the Charr had any fun, but yeah

>

> Mounts aren't needed in 1-15 starting zones or for that matter wanted, there is no purpose for them to be there.

>

> But there they are

>

I think a large number of posts here say, quite specifically, that they are wanted in those zones. But I'm glad you witnessed that mounts are not as insurmountable an obstacle as you originally implied for these F2P players. They're not as terrible as you thought! This is good news.

[jia li ng.8415]

It took a little planning, strategy, and teamwork to thwart the Mounted Invasion and witnessing their success was highly rewarding ...

... the players who already have dozens of level 80 characters seem to feel that by making a mount free starter zone will make the game unplayable.

 

Making the 1-15 zones true starter zones wouldn't diminish the game whatsoever, it would bring back the essence to Tyria ... how we all began!

 

Heavy scaling higher level players would also help where there would be absolutely no reward for a level 80 or only a marginal one if they were there for a World Boss

 

There are 38 maps above the 5 level 1-15 starter maps and yes 4 of those maps have World Bosses and the functionality of a mount is lost when combating a World Boss, of all the vistas in the starter maps only 1 in Ventry Bay that takes true finesse to get.

 

Nostalgic throwback zones would be a welcome change

 

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> ...and so it goes,

> again bringing the tread back on topic, it occurred again tonight "the tail swiping raptors invasion" continues

> but tonight my F2P friends were readied with staves in hand to steal the events from the errant Charr ...

> its seems the AoE strategy worked in Metrica Province

> A Necromancer and an Elemental were able to complete their 4 events with ease

>

> I actually am proud of my little Padawan's

>

> It was fun to watch them working as a team slowing and burning inquest, while the raptor riding Charr was left spinning in his dust!

>

>

 

We knew if you just exerted yourself a little and used the skills the game gives your chars you could solve your problem and make your request for a mount free zone completely unnecessary.

 

Congrats. You've done good. o7

[jia li ng.8415]

Would you actually rage quit if ArenaNet/NCSoft allowed Nostalgic glider free, mount free 1-15 starter zones?

 

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Would you actually rage quit if ArenaNet/NCSoft allowed Nostalgic glider free, mount free 1-15 starter zones?

>

 

I would give them less than a week before they revert that option if they did that.

And no, I don't mean I would give them that much time before rage quitting, I'm giving them that much time after people complain and they're going "okay okay we put it back in".

I would say a day, but let's be reasonable.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"jia li ng.8415" said:

> Would you actually rage quit if ArenaNet/NCSoft allowed Nostalgic glider free, mount free 1-15 starter zones?

Would you actually rage quit if they didn't?

 

You're the one wanting to change the status quo; you haven't given them a reason other than "don't like it."

 

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> @"jia li ng.8415" said:

> > Would you actually rage quit if ArenaNet/NCSoft allowed Nostalgic glider free, mount free 1-15 starter zones?

> Would you actually rage quit if they didn't?

>

> You're the one wanting to change the status quo; you haven't given them a reason other than "don't like it."

>

 

That and "not good for FTP Players", which is a bit weird as.... people who have HoT and not PoF would also not have access to mounts.

But once again, let's not get technical.

[Majic.4801]

1. Scale mounts.

2. Problem solved.

3. ???

4. Profit!!!