Help against Condi Mirage

[tartarus.1082]

> Stealth inherently makes the burst unpredictable. There is nothing predictable about an attack coming from something you can't see.

 

Typically, this is obviously a valid point for power Mesmer, thief, and holo running stealth on tool belt. However one of the key parts for a standard condi mirage burst is landing the prestige, which is exactly 3 seconds after stealthing. Plus your average mirage will try to pull a swap with a precasted torch 5 so there is to some extent visual tells and predictability. That being said even as a Mesmer main I don't think the burst capacity of torch is particularly healthy balance wise.

[Felipe.1807]

Thanks everyone. Theres really good advice here on how deal with Mirage, but it seens that the concensus is that this profession right now is a little powerfull and theres little counterplay to it.

Honestly was expecting a lot of "L2P" and "Git Gud" kind of stuff lol and people say that the pvp community is toxic, thanks again guys, really apreciate, see you all in game.

[Cyczer.7834]

Writing this as a mirage currently playing at gold 3 and these are my observations so far. I'd like to remind this is just my 1 v 1 experiences when the enemy if not disrupted with something else.

 

Mirage vs Firebrand : Total waste of time for mirage, firebrand can outheal , cleanse conditions effectively and deal decent amount of damage to mirage, can also force you out of the points.

Mirage vs Dragonhunter : Fighting them on a close range is real annoying, because of their traps are capable of destroying your illusions and since you are not chrono they do not gain superspeed. Also good DH's will watch your rotation and always blink with sword 2 whenever you switch into staff to cleave you down. ( This mostly comes down to class experience)

Mirage vs Core Condi Guard (?) : Fire ticks harder than confusion and taunt and unless you are running arcane thievery you will mostly die before the guardian.

 

Mirage vs Druid : Druid can sustain quite easily for a very long time.

Mirage vs Soulbeast : Same as druid, soulbeast can sustain for a while and can also kill you if played effectively.

 

Mirage vs Holo / Scrapper : Both has enough cleanse, good might upkeep, so many aoe and can also effectively run condition builds and play against mirage without a major worry.

 

Mirage vs Scourge : Your entire job is dodging aoes here then you can actually beat a scourge in 1 v 1. But it is impossible to fight a scourge under the capture points. Also it has very big aoes. It can also transfer conditions and you dont have condi cleanse besides arcane thievery. ( No need to say shades are overpowered )

Mirage vs Reaper : Shroud , condi transfer, wells are all a thing that doesnt mirages appreciate much.

Mirage vs Minion Master : The fight of absolute no.

 

Mirage vs Mirage : Grab popcorn and watch illusions fighting eachother

Mirage vs Chronomancer : Chrono is stronger with condi cleanse and f5.

 

Mirage vs Spellbreaker : Pulsing resistance and stability, paired with shtton of bursts, whats the problem?

Mirage vs Berserker : Same as above, but cant strip boons.

 

Mirage vs Weaver : Weaver is just plain weak, any class beats it 1 v 1.

Mirage vs Healbot Ele : Cant kill ele, ele cant deal damage , its another waste of time.

 

Mirage vs Revenant / Herald / Renegade : Bad in pvp in general, any class can beat em.

 

Mirage vs Any power build Thief : Both cant really get a kill off eachother, both is excellent at sustaining and escaping.

Mirage vs Condi trapper Thief : This thief is capable of forcing you out of points, has the same annoying escape capabilities and you fight under same terms. This fight comes down to class experience and is also very annoying.

 

 

TL;DR : Mirage may be strong, homewer it is definitively not impossible to play against them, it somewhat depends on your game and class experience.

To me, a problem here is most low ( Between bronze 1 - gold 3 ) tier players are so obsessed with "Fighting under the point". I am seeing so many people in my games staying in the bomb/burst to prevent decap but they mostly end up dead and start complaining how broken the class is.

 

Rather than complaining, you can always develop your own build and try to adapt game .

[Ledavi.1803]

> @Cyczer.7834 said:

>

> Rather than complaining, you can always develop your own build and try to adapt game instead of just complaining.

 

quote of the day

[Razor.6392]

There is no easy way to counter it. Well played Mirage is impossible to deal with for most classes.

[Felipe.1807]

> @Ledavi.1803 said:

> > @Cyczer.7834 said:

> >

> > Rather than complaining, you can always develop your own build and try to adapt game instead of just complaining.

>

> quote of the day

 

I wasnt complaining, was asking for insight on how other professions that are not bunker Firebrand can deal with Condi Mirage...based on most of the information that i got from here and my own(playing against top players...dont know why matchmaking thinks that someone with 1600+ should face top 10 players, but whatever), you just dont fight Condi Mirage, when played at high skill level is virtually invincible...the best you can do is just stall the fight and wait to +1 the Mirage.

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > @Felipe.1807 said:

> > > hello everyone, gonna try to keep short...so I was playing with bunker Firebrand when this Mirage come to try to take my point. Gonna be honest, I dont play Mesmer, so i have no idea about its rotations and which skills to look to try to evade, but still, in little more then a second he was able to put me 20+ stacks of confusion...being a Firebrand i had no trouble cleaning all that, and for a second i though i was out of danger, though he had waster all his condi burst and would have to sit doing little condi damage till he had recovered all his cooldows, but hey, a sec later i have 20 stacks of confusion again...and this keep going till he finally decide to give up to take the point from me...Firebrand is know for being the ultimate counter to condi builds, but what about other prefessions, how to you deal against someone who is able to spam so much condi, its kill before get killed situation? Remenber when they introduced Perplexity runes and everyone on pvp agreed that they would be way to powerfull to be in the game mode...in WvW you could easiely put 10+ condi stacks on someone, and that was OP at the time. Now we talking about mesmer(Mirage) doing +-20 stacks of confusion...what happened? I know, powercreep and all, like firebrand have more group utility on one tome that old bunker guard had in his whole build, but still, I guess is time to Anet to re-evaluate what they want to sPvP be, cause this aint looking good...

> > > But going back to Mirage...how do you deal with it? If you dont have Über condi removal you just try for a quick burst and run away if it fail? From my experience, havent seen a single Mirage lose a fight, when they are near to die they just run away and theres little that you can do to prevent that(unless maybe you are thief or something)

> >

> > There is **virtually** nothing you can do to kill a good mirage...it's technically speaking...impossible:

> > - Sword/torch - Staff

> > -They have treated stealth for auto-save mode, stealth utility and stealth weapon skill

> > -They have **absolutely broken elite that shows devs bias in all its glory** https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jaunt

> > - When they're not stealthed...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion

> > - Even if you successfully dodge **sword ambush** multiple times..you'll find yourself on the defensive....**because you can't pressure them back long enough**

> >

> > I currently use a soulbeast with all possible condi clear traits available to ranger + jacaranda ( for resistance and f2 condi clear )...I can stall a good mirage for a long time but I won't even come close to kill it, if very low they'll use portal or some other short CD teleport.

> >

> > Don't feel bad ....there is really nothing you can do...the spec is stupid to fight

>

> Jaunt broken? What? :D Just another sign how clueless people are about classes they don't play. You either use it for condi stacking, which is kitten in 95% of the cases, or as a very short blink, which is very useful tool for mobility. How is that overpowered as an elite?

>

> As these 2 traits are entirely different mechanics (disengage and condi stacking), this is what you have depending on the situation:

> - an 1350 range blink with 3 casts and 20 sec recharge

> - 9 stacks of confusion with 3 casts and 20 sec recharge.

>

> You also have 1 (!) condi removal per count. In the current meta where there are 5 condis applied every second. Not even worth talking about. Then you have Self Deception trait which is rather useless because there are better alternatives in the same traitline (and a bit clunky as well)

>

> Please, again, elaborate, how is that overpowered?

>

> I even remember seeing tons of posts in Mirage thread about how useless Jaunt is, especially at PoF launch.

>

> There are multiple things you could complain about when it comes to Mirage, but Jaunt is DEFINITELY not one of them.

>

> FYI: with Soulbeast you are very likely to die to a Mirage anyway, it's not built to handle the amount of condis the current meta carries. Druid is the only build as a ranger currently to properly run in sPVP

 

Let's break it down for the kiddies.

Having a teleport, no matter short or not.

Is bad.

Having a teleport on a very short cooldown is bad.

Especially when the class on it's own already has a decent amount of teleports without mirage.

Are you starting to follow, or should I break it down even more

[Levijeh.1467]

> @Razor.6392 said:

> There is no easy way to counter it. Well played Mirage is impossible to deal with for most classes.

 

Do you think that's good for the game? An elite, or a build with no counterplay? Condi mirage needs a NERF, but it won't happen until next season.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @Lilyanna.9361 said

>

> Let's break it down for the kiddies.

> Having a teleport, no matter short or not.

> Is bad.

> Having a teleport on a very short cooldown is bad.

> Especially when the class on it's own already has a decent amount of teleports without mirage.

> Are you starting to follow, or should I break it down even more

Yes, please elaborate. Why is teleport bad? So why most classes have teleports?

 

So it does not matter if it's short distance or not. Why? For me it seems like a 450 range teleport won't save you, while a 1200 range one will.

 

I guess you are one of those people who QQ-d about thief for years because it is mobile, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

There are some concerns with Mirage that need to be looked at, but you completely missed the point.

[Kyon.9735]

> @Cyczer.7834 said:

> Mirage vs Holo / Scrapper : Both has enough cleanse, good might upkeep, so many aoe and can also effectively run condition builds and play against mirage without a major worry.

> Mirage vs Reaper : Shroud , condi transfer, wells are all a thing that doesnt mirages appreciate much.

> Mirage vs Spellbreaker : Pulsing resistance and stability, paired with shtton of bursts, whats the problem?

> Mirage vs Berserker : Same as above, but cant strip boons.

 

._.

[cryorion.9532]

Ye, that is exactly what I meant by "do some people try to reason that mirage is not broken or that it is easy to dealt with".

"Mirage may be strong, however...", please... it is beyond broken.

Soon™

[rwolf.9571]

As a Plat T1 Mirage I die from;

-CC/Stun Lock

-Standing in Scourge aoes + chill + no endurance

-Weaver Chill/Cripple

-Trying to 1 v 1 a decent holo

-Trap DH pull/stunlock

-A good burst thief

-Well any good placed burst damage actually...

-Rangers Smoke Scale (those guys follow you even after using blink)

-Some 1 v 2's

-When I'm trying to stomp

 

Although I don't run the meta build. But a Hybrid based off Condi Chrono. Axe/Torch, Scepter/Sword.

[Alehin.3746]

 

> > @choovanski.5462 said:

> > I recommend tanking rating down to bronze so you can fight mesmers who can't play properly. you're not going to do well against those who know what they are doing. mirage has little to no counterplay, and tons of tools to outplaying you- so at roughly equal skill levels you will just lose

>

> These are not the responses that I was expecting lol, was hoping to same actual advice on how to deal with then, but what it looks like, its that they are in fact overpowered right now.

 

Just like firebrand.

 

> lol no way that i gonna drop way back to Bronze, now that theres little competition gonna try to go for some of the titles, maybe something between top 25 and 100.

 

Don't know how to fight mesmers. Wants top 25/100 tittle. "Competition", when you climb to top 100 with that mentality? Ewww.

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > @Lilyanna.9361 said

> >

> > Let's break it down for the kiddies.

> > Having a teleport, no matter short or not.

> > Is bad.

> > Having a teleport on a very short cooldown is bad.

> > Especially when the class on it's own already has a decent amount of teleports without mirage.

> > Are you starting to follow, or should I break it down even more

> Yes, please elaborate. Why is teleport bad? So why most classes have teleports?

>

> So it does not matter if it's short distance or not. Why? For me it seems like a 450 range teleport won't save you, while a 1200 range one will.

>

> I guess you are one of those people who QQ-d about thief for years because it is mobile, I wouldn't be surprised.

>

> There are some concerns with Mirage that need to be looked at, but you completely missed the point.

 

No I'm not, funny assumption though. Sorely mistaken however. Sorry champ, maybe next time.

[Nemesis.7896]

> @Lilyanna.9361 said:

> > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > @Arheundel.6451 said:

> > > > @Felipe.1807 said:

> > > > hello everyone, gonna try to keep short...so I was playing with bunker Firebrand when this Mirage come to try to take my point. Gonna be honest, I dont play Mesmer, so i have no idea about its rotations and which skills to look to try to evade, but still, in little more then a second he was able to put me 20+ stacks of confusion...being a Firebrand i had no trouble cleaning all that, and for a second i though i was out of danger, though he had waster all his condi burst and would have to sit doing little condi damage till he had recovered all his cooldows, but hey, a sec later i have 20 stacks of confusion again...and this keep going till he finally decide to give up to take the point from me...Firebrand is know for being the ultimate counter to condi builds, but what about other prefessions, how to you deal against someone who is able to spam so much condi, its kill before get killed situation? Remenber when they introduced Perplexity runes and everyone on pvp agreed that they would be way to powerfull to be in the game mode...in WvW you could easiely put 10+ condi stacks on someone, and that was OP at the time. Now we talking about mesmer(Mirage) doing +-20 stacks of confusion...what happened? I know, powercreep and all, like firebrand have more group utility on one tome that old bunker guard had in his whole build, but still, I guess is time to Anet to re-evaluate what they want to sPvP be, cause this aint looking good...

> > > > But going back to Mirage...how do you deal with it? If you dont have Über condi removal you just try for a quick burst and run away if it fail? From my experience, havent seen a single Mirage lose a fight, when they are near to die they just run away and theres little that you can do to prevent that(unless maybe you are thief or something)

> > >

> > > There is **virtually** nothing you can do to kill a good mirage...it's technically speaking...impossible:

> > > - Sword/torch - Staff

> > > -They have treated stealth for auto-save mode, stealth utility and stealth weapon skill

> > > -They have **absolutely broken elite that shows devs bias in all its glory** https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jaunt

> > > - When they're not stealthed...https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blurred_Frenzy + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion

> > > - Even if you successfully dodge **sword ambush** multiple times..you'll find yourself on the defensive....**because you can't pressure them back long enough**

> > >

> > > I currently use a soulbeast with all possible condi clear traits available to ranger + jacaranda ( for resistance and f2 condi clear )...I can stall a good mirage for a long time but I won't even come close to kill it, if very low they'll use portal or some other short CD teleport.

> > >

> > > Don't feel bad ....there is really nothing you can do...the spec is stupid to fight

> >

> > Jaunt broken? What? :D Just another sign how clueless people are about classes they don't play. You either use it for condi stacking, which is kitten in 95% of the cases, or as a very short blink, which is very useful tool for mobility. How is that overpowered as an elite?

> >

> > As these 2 traits are entirely different mechanics (disengage and condi stacking), this is what you have depending on the situation:

> > - an 1350 range blink with 3 casts and 20 sec recharge

> > - 9 stacks of confusion with 3 casts and 20 sec recharge.

> >

> > You also have 1 (!) condi removal per count. In the current meta where there are 5 condis applied every second. Not even worth talking about. Then you have Self Deception trait which is rather useless because there are better alternatives in the same traitline (and a bit clunky as well)

> >

> > Please, again, elaborate, how is that overpowered?

> >

> > I even remember seeing tons of posts in Mirage thread about how useless Jaunt is, especially at PoF launch.

> >

> > There are multiple things you could complain about when it comes to Mirage, but Jaunt is DEFINITELY not one of them.

> >

> > FYI: with Soulbeast you are very likely to die to a Mirage anyway, it's not built to handle the amount of condis the current meta carries. Druid is the only build as a ranger currently to properly run in sPVP

>

> Let's break it down for the kiddies.

> Having a teleport, no matter short or not.

> Is bad.

> Having a teleport on a very short cooldown is bad.

> Especially when the class on it's own already has a decent amount of teleports without mirage.

> Are you starting to follow, or should I break it down even more

 

Teleport make a class able to disapear and be on a higher edge and keep fleeing or kiting.

 

Anyone that played world vs world more than three hours know that.

 

Stop trying to make your beleifs truth.

 

Teleport is way more powerful than you say.

[FaboBabo.3581]

well, all you other classes could try energy sigils and adventure runes too... because it seems like they give "perma evade and perma stealth"....