Now we need Mirage Clone Fix

[Astralporing.1957]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> > @ArthurDent.9538 said:

> > > @Belorn.2659 said:

> > > > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > > > @Belorn.2659 said:

> > > > > > @musu.9205 said:

> > > > > > on the other hand , ele does do nearly 10k more dps than every other class on kc .

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe Anet should create a raid boss which take double damage from confussion stacks and half damage from everything else. This would make mesmers the new super DPS class which would be massive overpowered, but limited for that single boss.

> > > >

> > > > We already have that: the boss is called Matthias and favors mesmers greatly. What problem are we exactly addressing with this change though?

> > > >

> > > > The issue isn't 1 boss, it's that ele is and has been superior on almost every raid boss and outclasses others by 10k on KC.

> > >

> > > Lets go through the bosses based on raidar for average boss DPS for the top 2 dps classes. I am using the 99th percentile.

> > >

> > > VG: Weaver: 20052, Mirage: 19521, Difference: 531

> > > Gor: Weaver: 23152, Mirage: 22230, Difference: 922

> > > Sab: Holosmith: 22415, Renegade: 21549, Difference: 866

> > > Sloth: Mirage: 23922, Weaver: 20773, Difference: 3149

> > > Matt: Mirage: 24789, Weaver: 23269, Difference: 1520

> > > KC: Weaver: 35959, Holosmith: 30106, Difference: 5853

> > > Xera: Mirage: 16742, Renegade: 16055, Difference: 687

> > > Cairn: Weaver: 41289, Mirage: 40643, Difference: 646

> > > Mo: Weaver: 35432, Mirage: 33997, Difference: 1435

> > > Sam: Weaver: 16407, Mirage: 16067, Difference: 340

> > > Deimos: Weaver: 23027, Holosmith: 22019, Difference: 1008

> > >

> > > Conclusion: Average difference between top 1 and top 2 is 1541. For the 7 bosses which weaver has top DPS, the average difference is 1533, and if we remove KC it is 813. For the 4 bosses which weaver is not top DPS the average difference is 1555. Weaver are not in top 2 for 2 bosses, while Mirage are not in top 2 in 3 bosses.

> > >

> > > If we remove the two out liners that is KC and sloth, the average DPS of top 2 is 3.6% less than top 1. This show that the problem is not on the class level but rather on the design of the bosses.

> >

> > That condi weaver dps on Cairn seems extremely currious. You did copy it correctly from the site but I can't begin to think of a reason why it would be doing significantly more than its benchmark dps. Mirage hitting 40k+ makes sense and I have seen it done since large hit box + boosted torment before it moves + decent number of confusion procs gives plenty of potential to actually beat the benchmark. For weaver though, I just can't see why it would be getting so much more damage on that fight, and would honestly suspect a bug with Ark.

>

> Tl:dr there are some pretty bad mirages that use radar.

 

You missed the part about this data using the 99th percentile (so, with data from bad players already filtered out), i guess.

[Genesis.5169]

Man i don't understand you pve people.

Let me get this straight you guys are asking anet, to nerf a class in pve because the said class is killing the boss you want dead a little to fast?

 

I don't get it, if everyone gets the loot what gives you guys cried about ele's too i just don't get why people in PvE cry about classes killing things fast, would you want to play with classes that are as OP as possible to get pass the content faster?

 

Isn't that why u guys go hard over the meta to get thru content fast?

But then when classes come up that make it possible you cry to nerf the said classes..

 

I Really don't understand this mind set can some one fill me in one what makes people cry for nerfs in PvE where you all on the same team.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Genesis.5169 said:

> Man i don't understand you pve people.

> Let me get this straight you guys are asking anet, to nerf a class in pve because the said class is killing the boss you want dead a little to fast?

>

> I don't get it, if everyone gets the loot what gives you guys cried about ele's too i just don't get why people in PvE cry about classes killing things fast, would you want to play with classes that are as OP as possible to get pass the content faster?

>

> Isn't that why u guys go hard over the meta to get thru content fast?

> But then when classes come up that make it possible you cry to nerf the said classes..

>

> I Really don't understand this mind set can some one fill me in one what makes people cry for nerfs in PvE where you all on the same team.

 

If a build is performing so much better over the others, it will be the only one chosen. People cry for PVE nerfs because otherwise their own builds are useless.

[Amineo.8951]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @Genesis.5169 said:

> > Man i don't understand you pve people.

> > Let me get this straight you guys are asking anet, to nerf a class in pve because the said class is killing the boss you want dead a little to fast?

> >

> > I don't get it, if everyone gets the loot what gives you guys cried about ele's too i just don't get why people in PvE cry about classes killing things fast, would you want to play with classes that are as OP as possible to get pass the content faster?

> >

> > Isn't that why u guys go hard over the meta to get thru content fast?

> > But then when classes come up that make it possible you cry to nerf the said classes..

> >

> > I Really don't understand this mind set can some one fill me in one what makes people cry for nerfs in PvE where you all on the same team.

>

> If a build is performing so much better over the others, it will be the only one chosen. People cry for PVE nerfs because otherwise their own builds are useless.

 

Yeah and people don't necessarily like to play Weaver or Mirage or gearing a new toon when their last build which was performing well got nerfed.

[Genesis.5169]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @Genesis.5169 said:

> > Man i don't understand you pve people.

> > Let me get this straight you guys are asking anet, to nerf a class in pve because the said class is killing the boss you want dead a little to fast?

> >

> > I don't get it, if everyone gets the loot what gives you guys cried about ele's too i just don't get why people in PvE cry about classes killing things fast, would you want to play with classes that are as OP as possible to get pass the content faster?

> >

> > Isn't that why u guys go hard over the meta to get thru content fast?

> > But then when classes come up that make it possible you cry to nerf the said classes..

> >

> > I Really don't understand this mind set can some one fill me in one what makes people cry for nerfs in PvE where you all on the same team.

>

> If a build is performing so much better over the others, it will be the only one chosen. People cry for PVE nerfs because otherwise their own builds are useless.

 

I didn't see that happen all thoughtout HoT when tempest was godsend, i see alot of cps/banner slaves/chrono tank/druids/kiters asked for in lfg and within my guild, i really do believe sometimes you pve folk in particular dps classes live in some kinda bubble way from the real world.

 

Inb4 infraction and deleted post!

[Astralporing.1957]

> @Genesis.5169 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > If a build is performing so much better over the others, it will be the only one chosen. People cry for PVE nerfs because otherwise their own builds are useless.

>

> I didn't see that happen all thoughtout HoT when tempest was godsend

I have. It was only after dps meters started being more popular and people realized most of the tempests weren't doing all that good in actual boss encounters that the dps slots opened for more classes.

 

 

[Draco.9480]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> > @Draco.9480 said:

> > > @Belorn.2659 said:

> > > No thanks! Variation is good.

> > >

> > > I prefer that each class has their own uniqueness, and the clone mechanic is nice. Necro has epidemic, the single highest damage skill in the game when used correctly. Weaver has the special power of doing 15k more damage for exactly one raid boss that is designed to take extra damage from power and is stunned for the whole of the burn phase (ie KC). Rangers has a healing specialization, spirits, and nowdays give 25 might for 10 people. Warrior has banners.

> > >

> > > Instead of taking away variation, please add more around classes mechanics that are currently not used in fractals/raids. Stealth from thieves has not seen active usage outside of dungeons which are today dead. Blocks from guardians are unreliable and somewhat underused, through wing 4 did a few steps in the right direction. Engi turrets has only ever been used as a farming tool. Rev is in a bit odd place like ele, but without a unique raid boss where they and only they excel.

> >

> > variation is still on the floor. all classes should be use for dps in power and condi. while we barely have like 5 good condis and 3 good power, everything else is just useless. necro offers 0 uniqueness in terms of pve

>

> I mean epi can still cheese encounters so theres that.

 

i don't see the epidemic goodness in raids nor fracs. can be done without it, cuz others do much higher than necro's dps.

[OriOri.8724]

Well the actual bug has now been fixed. Mirage's DPS should now be about 5-7k lower than it was pre-patch.

 

**Edit** - Apparently the fix dropped our DPS to 24-26K. Maybe some really smart players can squeeze another 1K or so out of that. Disappointing really, we weren't expecting our dps to drop so heavily when the bug was addressed.

[Zenith.7301]

You can fix mirage clone when you fix mesmer aoe and cleave and group utility.

 

Unlike your stupid ass weaver mirage also doesn't have the luxury of range or burst.

 

Run mirage on xera or deimos or Sabetha and tell me how useful it is. The only endboss it is even top on is Matthias.

 

Essentially, mirage is only top on a single target fight with no priority adds to switch to or side objectives that need to be destroyed.