Question: Sand Through Glass

[Sojourner.4621]

There has been some talk about the different mirage utilities being not particularly unique from one another, but as a long time thief player and one who has dealt with skills only having subtly different uses for a long time (and always embracing different forms of mobility even if that difference is subtle) the main concern I have is for the skill [sand Through Glass](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Through_Glass "Sand Through Glass").

 

This skill has three stages: It is an evade, It is a Stunbreak, and if you get back to the mirror it creates it is another source of Mirage Cloak (the logistics of which have been plenty discussed and I won't bring up here). My main question regards the oversight of the other two aspects of this skill. It is an instant cast evade that also breaks stun, which could potentially have some solid use in cases where the Elusive Mind trait is not taken (The usefulness of Infinite Horizon in particular coming to mind on certain builds), especially since it has a relatively low cooldown for a stunbreak skill. However, the instant cast evasion is not **practically** useful because this Utility **will not** interrupt whatever other skills you are casting. It only queues up AFTER whatever you are currently doing finishes. If running through a fast auto attack chain it won't queue at all as the autos always take priority.

 

I want to like the possibilities of this skill, even the mirror aspect. The idea that you can evade out of an aoe, then Jaunt towards the mirror it places any time in the next eight seconds for a second evade of a potentially large and devastating telegraphed attack has a lot of potential particularly for solo play, which is my primary play style. I can definitely see the situations where this can be a powerful tool... but none of them are even remotely useful as long as all other skills take priority over this utility. Seeing as the majority of other skills that act as instant evades don't suffer from this issue, can we get a statement on whether this was just an oversight or was actually intended behavior? Is this meant to be used only as a stun break that can potentially push you out of AoEs? If so why does [Lightning Reflexes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes "Lightning Reflexes"), a skill with essentially the same function, override and interrupt other skills?

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Sojourner.4621 said:

> There has been some talk about the different mirage utilities being not particularly unique from one another, but as a long time thief player and one who has dealt with skills only having subtly different uses for a long time (and always embracing different forms of mobility even if that difference is subtle) the main concern I have is for the skill [sand Through Glass](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Through_Glass "Sand Through Glass").

>

> This skill has three stages: It is an evade, It is a Stunbreak, and if you get back to the mirror it creates it is another source of Mirage Cloak (the logistics of which have been plenty discussed and I won't bring up here). My main question regards the oversight of the other two aspects of this skill. It is an instant cast evade that also breaks stun, which could potentially have some solid use in cases where the Elusive Mind trait is not taken (The usefulness of Infinite Horizon in particular coming to mind on certain builds), especially since it has a relatively low cooldown for a stunbreak skill. However, the instant cast evasion is not **practically** useful because this Utility **will not** interrupt whatever other skills you are casting. It only queues up AFTER whatever you are currently doing finishes. If running through a fast auto attack chain it won't queue at all as the autos always take priority.

>

> I want to like the possibilities of this skill, even the mirror aspect. The idea that you can evade out of an aoe, then Jaunt towards the mirror it places any time in the next eight seconds for a second evade of a potentially large and devastating telegraphed attack has a lot of potential particularly for solo play, which is my primary play style. I can definitely see the situations where this can be a powerful tool... but none of them are even remotely useful as long as all other skills take priority over this utility. Seeing as the majority of other skills that act as instant evades don't suffer from this issue, can we get a statement on whether this was just an oversight or was actually intended behavior? Is this meant to be used only as a stun break that can potentially push you out of AoEs? If so why does [Lightning Reflexes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes "Lightning Reflexes"), a skill with essentially the same function, override and interrupt other skills?

 

+1

[Curunen.8729]

Ideally StG should be kind of analagous to a combination of Withdraw and Bandit's Defence - ie *low cooldown* backwards movement skill, making up for lack of innate movement with dodge and also breaking stun while providing damage avoidance (in the form of evade and a mirage mirror).

 

For this reason I really want to see StG cooldown lowered to 10-15seconds.

[Cantatus.4065]

Yeah, I think Sands Through Glass is mirage's utility most in need of tweaking. As I pointed out in the utility thread, there's really no aspect to it that's done better or at least comparable by another skill. We have better movement skills and the other mirror generation skills are more useful. About the only thing it does better is act as a stun break due to being faster than our other utility skills that perform this function, but like you said, it doesn't even do that well since it doesn't interrupt skills. And adding all of these things together - stun break, movement, mirror - doesn't really make that inspired of an ability.

 

I also really question what purpose the ability is meant to serve. Mirage traded dodge for Mirage Cloak and Ambushes.... and then they gave us Sands Through Glass which is basically the same thing as a dodge (except worse). Why? At least the retreat utilities other classes have are superior to dodge in terms of distance. They also all evade for the same amount of time as a dodge, where STG is shorter (though maybe STG is faster?). It's also not terribly useful in terms of getting out of combat to switch to a ranged weapon since Staff has something better and Greatsword has a knockback.

 

I do think a lower cooldown would make it more useful, but I think that would have to come at the same time as addressing Elusive Mind. Or maybe if mirrors were improved... Though, really, I wouldn't be upset if the skill just got scrapped and something else was added in its place.

[OriOri.8724]

You bring up a good point. Instead of always evading backwards, StG should be a directional evade, in the direction you are currently moving, or backwards if you aren't moving. Lower the CD to 15s, remove the mirror. This gives us a way to "dodge" like normal if we want it. Would definitely make it more unique as a utility skill

[Sojourner.4621]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> You bring up a good point. Instead of always evading backwards, StG should be a directional evade, in the direction you are currently moving, or backwards if you aren't moving. Lower the CD to 15s, remove the mirror. This gives us a way to "dodge" like normal if we want it. Would definitely make it more unique as a utility skill

 

I would say yes to lowering the cooldown, but we have to remember that Bandit's Defense just got its cooldown bumped up to 20s, and tbh it would feel pretty bad to my thief main that I've already swapped to mesmer from if it lost its best stunbreak and then Mesmer effectively gained it. I don't mind the fact that this is a backwards evade, and I also don't mind that it is a shorter distance than say Roll For Initiative or Lightning Reflexes. Both of those skills will sometimes throw me off a cliff if I am not super careful because I misjudged just how far backwards it would throw me. This throws just far enough to get out of the majority of AoE circles and to me that's just fine.

[Wandering Mist.2973]

> @Sojourner.4621 said:

> There has been some talk about the different mirage utilities being not particularly unique from one another, but as a long time thief player and one who has dealt with skills only having subtly different uses for a long time (and always embracing different forms of mobility even if that difference is subtle) the main concern I have is for the skill [sand Through Glass](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Through_Glass "Sand Through Glass").

>

> This skill has three stages: It is an evade, It is a Stunbreak, and if you get back to the mirror it creates it is another source of Mirage Cloak (the logistics of which have been plenty discussed and I won't bring up here). My main question regards the oversight of the other two aspects of this skill. It is an instant cast evade that also breaks stun, which could potentially have some solid use in cases where the Elusive Mind trait is not taken (The usefulness of Infinite Horizon in particular coming to mind on certain builds), especially since it has a relatively low cooldown for a stunbreak skill. However, the instant cast evasion is not **practically** useful because this Utility **will not** interrupt whatever other skills you are casting. It only queues up AFTER whatever you are currently doing finishes. If running through a fast auto attack chain it won't queue at all as the autos always take priority.

>

> I want to like the possibilities of this skill, even the mirror aspect. The idea that you can evade out of an aoe, then Jaunt towards the mirror it places any time in the next eight seconds for a second evade of a potentially large and devastating telegraphed attack has a lot of potential particularly for solo play, which is my primary play style. I can definitely see the situations where this can be a powerful tool... but none of them are even remotely useful as long as all other skills take priority over this utility. Seeing as the majority of other skills that act as instant evades don't suffer from this issue, can we get a statement on whether this was just an oversight or was actually intended behavior? Is this meant to be used only as a stun break that can potentially push you out of AoEs? If so why does [Lightning Reflexes](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Reflexes "Lightning Reflexes"), a skill with essentially the same function, override and interrupt other skills?

 

More often than not when it comes down to input priorities on skills, even the game's programmers don't know what they are or how they work. They are just by-products of the code, which is why you get inconsistencies between seemingly similar skills. I doubt you'll ever get a definitive answer from the devs on how the skill should work, so you either have the choice of using the skill despite the flaw, or not using it at all. When using the skill while auto attacking, have you tried stowing your weapon to cancel the auto attack before activating the evade skill? It means an extra input but stowing your weapon might just allow you to activate the skill a little faster than normal.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Sojourner.4621 said:

> > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > You bring up a good point. Instead of always evading backwards, StG should be a directional evade, in the direction you are currently moving, or backwards if you aren't moving. Lower the CD to 15s, remove the mirror. This gives us a way to "dodge" like normal if we want it. Would definitely make it more unique as a utility skill

>

> I would say yes to lowering the cooldown, but we have to remember that Bandit's Defense just got its cooldown bumped up to 20s, and tbh it would feel pretty bad to my thief main that I've already swapped to mesmer from if it lost its best stunbreak and then Mesmer effectively gained it. I don't mind the fact that this is a backwards evade, and I also don't mind that it is a shorter distance than say Roll For Initiative or Lightning Reflexes. Both of those skills will sometimes throw me off a cliff if I am not super careful because I misjudged just how far backwards it would throw me. This throws just far enough to get out of the majority of AoE circles and to me that's just fine.

 

Bandit's defense is also a block, and DD already had way more evades than mirage could even hope for. It doesn't need an additional stunbreak on a 15sec CD. Mirage is not DD, and you can't balance its skills as if it is

[Bod.8261]

> @Cantatus.4065 said:

> About the only thing it does better is act as a stun break due to being faster than our other utility skills that perform this function, but like you said, it doesn't even do that well since it doesn't interrupt skills.

 

How can it not function as a stun-break? When you're cc'd you can't cast any skills anyway, so it should work.

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Bod.8261 said:

> > @Cantatus.4065 said:

> > About the only thing it does better is act as a stun break due to being faster than our other utility skills that perform this function, but like you said, it doesn't even do that well since it doesn't interrupt skills.

>

> How can it not function as a stun-break? When you're cc'd you can't cast any skills anyway, so it should work.

 

Weired right ? Coding in it' full glory.

 

Prediction ; if ur stuned ur Skills will queue up. So if u tried to use a "skill x" as u were stunned it queues up. Now u wanna activate STG, but i has no primarity over other Skills, so it gets qeued up - if the stun ends u would first cast ur "skill x" and then STG.

 

IF this is True then the "coder/designer" of this skill is (this is an objective statement) braindead.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @Bod.8261 said:

> > > @Cantatus.4065 said:

> > > About the only thing it does better is act as a stun break due to being faster than our other utility skills that perform this function, but like you said, it doesn't even do that well since it doesn't interrupt skills.

> >

> > How can it not function as a stun-break? When you're cc'd you can't cast any skills anyway, so it should work.

>

> Weired right ? Coding in it' full glory.

>

> Prediction ; if ur stuned ur Skills will queue up. So if u tried to use a "skill x" as u were stunned it queues up. Now u wanna activate STG, but i has no primarity over other Skills, so it gets qeued up - if the stun ends u would first cast ur "skill x" and then STG.

>

> IF this is True then the "coder/designer" of this skill is (this is an objective statement) braindead.

 

Works fine as a stun break... the non-break skills don't queue if stunned... but useless as a clinch evade which is basically half the skill.