Tzozef.9841 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 The cooldown nerfs were appropiate, but nerfs against condi builds enemies was TOTALLY THE WRONG DIRECTION. It made WvW/PvP totally imbalanced even more and made conditions an even more glaring problem. I think anet needs to bump revenge counter condi reflect back to 5 conditions. 3 is not enough, as most of the time i reflect back conditions like weakness/cripple, which is useless. The ability does not prioritize the most damaging condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppy.4183 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Bumping it to five makes the condi problem worse. It's not a reflect that only affects people trying to put condis on you, it's an amplifier that affects up to 3 (or 5) additional people. If you want to make the case for restoring the number of condis copied, it can't sensibly be predicated on the notion that increasing the number of condis will somehow make condis less of a problem. Also, weakness is a fantastic condi to transfer in a fight, though obviously not against strictly condi opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman.5829 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Yes revert it back! the number of conditions transferred needs to be 5 to fight back the condi spammers. I don't care what you do to warrior in PvP, but in WvW warrior needs a lot of love to fight the condi spam. > @Choppy.4183 said: > Bumping it to five makes the condi problem worse. It's not a reflect that only affects people trying to put condis on you, it's an amplifier that affects up to 3 (or 5) additional people. Why would it make the problem worse? Spellbreaker are not condition damage oriented, the conditions transferred don't do damage if your build has 0 condition damage. The conditions transferred are only an inconvenience for the condition spammer. and their allies. Full counter was the perfect skill to counter condition spammers and stop the madnes in WvW, but apparently anet loves the condi spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppy.4183 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Hitman.5829 said: > Yes revert it back! the number of conditions transferred needs to be 5 to fight back the condi spammers. > I don't care what you do to warrior in PvP, but in WvW warrior needs a lot of love to fight the condi spam. > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > Bumping it to five makes the condi problem worse. It's not a reflect that only affects people trying to put condis on you, it's an amplifier that affects up to 3 (or 5) additional people. > > Why would it make the problem worse? Spellbreaker are not condition damage oriented, the conditions transferred don't do damage if your build has 0 condition damage. > The conditions transferred are only an inconvenience for the condition spammer. and their allies. > > Full counter was the perfect skill to counter condition spammers and stop the madnes in WvW, but apparently anet loves the condi spam. It makes it worse by spreading more condis, which increases lag in large scale, chokes out clears with garbage cover, etc. If there's no impact from the condis transferred (on the premise that SBs aren't condi oriented), then there's no upside for increasing their number but there is the downside mentioned above. If Revenge Counter was some sort of condi reflect, or negated application of a certain number of condis, I'd be all onboard with increasing the number. But I honestly don't see the argument for increasing the number of condis copied, especially if they're of no value, on the premise that it somehow makes the current condi situation more bearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Hitman.5829 said: > Yes revert it back! the number of conditions transferred needs to be 5 to fight back the condi spammers. > I don't care what you do to warrior in PvP, but in WvW warrior needs a lot of love to fight the condi spam. > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > Bumping it to five makes the condi problem worse. It's not a reflect that only affects people trying to put condis on you, it's an amplifier that affects up to 3 (or 5) additional people. > > Why would it make the problem worse? Spellbreaker are not condition damage oriented, the conditions transferred don't do damage if your build has 0 condition damage. > The conditions transferred are only an inconvenience for the condition spammer. and their allies. > > Full counter was the perfect skill to counter condition spammers and stop the madnes in WvW, but apparently anet loves the condi spam. It doesn't even transfer conditions, it just copies them. Revenge counter does nothing but add more conditions in an AoE around you. Its literally condi spam to the highest degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman.5829 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 > @OriOri.8724 said: > > @Hitman.5829 said: > > Yes revert it back! the number of conditions transferred needs to be 5 to fight back the condi spammers. > > I don't care what you do to warrior in PvP, but in WvW warrior needs a lot of love to fight the condi spam. > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > Bumping it to five makes the condi problem worse. It's not a reflect that only affects people trying to put condis on you, it's an amplifier that affects up to 3 (or 5) additional people. > > > > Why would it make the problem worse? Spellbreaker are not condition damage oriented, the conditions transferred don't do damage if your build has 0 condition damage. > > The conditions transferred are only an inconvenience for the condition spammer. and their allies. > > > > Full counter was the perfect skill to counter condition spammers and stop the madnes in WvW, but apparently anet loves the condi spam. > > It doesn't even transfer conditions, it just copies them. Revenge counter does nothing but add more conditions in an AoE around you. Its literally condi spam to the highest degree. Again, SB warrior is not a condition damage build. Transferring 5 conditions is reasonable considering that SB will not do any damage, the conditions transferred are only an inconvenience for the spammers, and in the case of the necro, you could get double conditions on you if the necro returns them to you, so fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppy.4183 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 > @Hitman.5829 said: > > @OriOri.8724 said: > > > @Hitman.5829 said: > > > Yes revert it back! the number of conditions transferred needs to be 5 to fight back the condi spammers. > > > I don't care what you do to warrior in PvP, but in WvW warrior needs a lot of love to fight the condi spam. > > > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > > Bumping it to five makes the condi problem worse. It's not a reflect that only affects people trying to put condis on you, it's an amplifier that affects up to 3 (or 5) additional people. > > > > > > Why would it make the problem worse? Spellbreaker are not condition damage oriented, the conditions transferred don't do damage if your build has 0 condition damage. > > > The conditions transferred are only an inconvenience for the condition spammer. and their allies. > > > > > > Full counter was the perfect skill to counter condition spammers and stop the madnes in WvW, but apparently anet loves the condi spam. > > > > It doesn't even transfer conditions, it just copies them. Revenge counter does nothing but add more conditions in an AoE around you. Its literally condi spam to the highest degree. > > Again, SB warrior is not a condition damage build. Transferring 5 conditions is reasonable considering that SB will not do any damage, the conditions transferred are only an inconvenience for the spammers, and in the case of the necro, you could get double conditions on you if the necro returns them to you, so fair play. Again, they're not a problem for the condi spammers, they're a problem for *everyone* else, including you if the people you're fighting have any SBs running Revenge Counter. How? Because now you're covered in garbage condis from their SBs that are covering the real condis delivered by their actual condi spammers. Remember, you're not *transferring* condis, you're *copying* them on to others. So, assume the change you want happens, someone puts 5 damaging condis on you, and you copy those back onto the person who put them on you and some of his friends (including a SB or two). Your condis are doing nothing because you have no condi power, but the ones on you are hammering away once that 2s of Resistance is up. But, wait, there's more. The two SBs both revenge counter the condis onto you and your friends, covering the original person's condis, possibly adding additional types to thwart your clears. Now you and your SB friend revenge counter and continue the cycle of condi violence. You've not made the condi situation better or more bearable, you've made it worse. The very condi spammers you want to thwart have an easier ride thanks to Revenge Counter because your ability to clear the things you need to clear to survive has been compromised via additional cover conditions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 > @Choppy.4183 said: > Bumping it to five makes the condi problem worse. It's not a reflect that only affects people trying to put condis on you, it's an amplifier that affects up to 3 (or 5) additional people. > > If you want to make the case for restoring the number of condis copied, it can't sensibly be predicated on the notion that increasing the number of condis will somehow make condis less of a problem. > > Also, weakness is a fantastic condi to transfer in a fight, though obviously not against strictly condi opponents. They should turn down filler conditions from condition builds and make it so they rely on other classes to stack fillers like from spellbreaker 5 condition copy instead tbh. and so in order to have more filler conditions spellbreaker will go on take conditions from multiple sources, since fillers are turned down, so it increases the risk for reward for a more team coordinated/orientated gameplay...instead of you have 6 7 8 conditons from condition builds instantly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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