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Build Help. No meta please.


Blades of Sabatine.5639

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Before I start with the build, let me start by saying I don't want no meta build. So people please restrain from explaining it to me. I know all about it and am not interested. All my previous build I have made over the years have worked very well from vanilla and chrono builds. I just need help in improving this build further, making it more efficient for what I do.

 

Note: if you can, please try and read through so you understand my reasons behind why I did what I did and my choices.

 

Now that is out of the way here is my mirage build.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAnc7ansnBdqhFMDOoBMMjlVDz/A2AngobhzQVosDMCCAA-jRiGQB4T9BAcGAQoyqis+wvUqkiNA8oSQc9QA6lKMBAOAou7u7u7u7u7u7uBA-e

 

I mainly play solo (PvE and PvP).

 

Weapons: Axe/Sword - Scepter/Pistol.

S/P is my main weapon I play with. This gives me range advantage, good Condi and bust Condi damage plus CC if needed. Once I lose the advantage of my range, I will swap to A/S.

I run on both weapons SS busting and SS Frailty. Simply for more damage and as I understand it, adding vuln helps with my overall damage.

 

Utilities:

Mirror for heals. reason (Short CD, and Reflection)

Mirror Image (reason be it helps with my initial startup which is also very busty as I will explain later in my rotation.)

Illusionary Ambush (more bust damage and evasion)

Signet of Domination (more damage is always good)

Jaunt (more condi/bust damage and evasion)

 

Traits: I tried to pick the the best traits that I think works best with the build.

 

Gear and Accessories: combination of Viper and Siniter

I don't believe in maxing out one. Sinister gives me more condi damage while viper helps with duration. The thought behind this is the condi damage which will be higher with this setup last long enough rather then having a smaller condi damage lasting much longer.

 

Runes: 5 SR Nightmare to 1 SR Infiltration

Nightmare helps with damage and duration, I do not see the need for the 6th anymore. It was good when it was torment when you use elite skills. The 2% extra damage to 50% Hp to me is a better option to all other. Again I may be wrong.

Note on Runes: I just noticed Renegade Rune, so might trying that out.

 

Rotation: Rather than writing everything, using the link to the build I will use the numbers to the skills and trait, to explain my rotation.

 

S/P: 4-7-5-3-Mirage Clock-1-1-1-Mirage Clock-1-1-1-8-1-1-1-Mirage Clock-1-1-1-3-1-1-1-Mirage Clock-1-1-1........ That is the main rotation in a nutshell. I have not been able to perfect the rotation to keep confusion high enough.

 

Now that you have seen the build and read through, I am hoping maybe someone can see where this build can be further improved. Remember, I don't want no Meta build.

Thanks.

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So just to understand what you don't want, you don't want a build which is:

 

**M**ost - **E**ffective - **T**actic - **A**vailable

 

because quite frankly, that's what meta stands for.

 

In short, you want people to share their random builds which they've tried without specifically telling you what worked best for them?

 

A strange way to ask for good advice, but who am I to judge.

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> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> So just to understand what you don't want, you don't want a build which is:

>

> **M**ost - **E**ffective - **T**actic - **A**vailable

>

> because quite frankly, that's what meta stands for.

>

> In short, you want people to share their random builds which they've tried without specifically telling you what worked best for them?

>

> A strange way to ask for good advice, but who am I to judge.

 

GW2 Meta is designed arround Teamplay ; when playing solo, even in PvP the Meta build may be worse then a self designed build. If u play a Meta Build in PvP, u need ur Teammates to play a Metabuild + u need to harmonize with ur Teammates. In PvE it's the same ; why would i play 1 Boonbot Chrono if my Pug - Groups dont even TRY to stand in any Well?

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> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> So just to understand what you don't want, you don't want a build which is:

>

> **M**ost - **E**ffective - **T**actic - **A**vailable

>

> because quite frankly, that's what meta stands for.

>

> In short, you want people to share their random builds which they've tried without specifically telling you what worked best for them?

>

> A strange way to ask for good advice, but who am I to judge.

 

because i play the game my way. I do not need to play the meta game, Not fun for me also you are just like everyone else. Why should I play like everyone else when I play mostly solo?

 

 

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> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > So just to understand what you don't want, you don't want a build which is:

> >

> > **M**ost - **E**ffective - **T**actic - **A**vailable

> >

> > because quite frankly, that's what meta stands for.

> >

> > In short, you want people to share their random builds which they've tried without specifically telling you what worked best for them?

> >

> > A strange way to ask for good advice, but who am I to judge.

>

> GW2 Meta is designed arround Teamplay ; when playing solo, even in PvP the Meta build may be worse then a self designed build. If u play a Meta Build in PvP, u need ur Teammates to play a Metabuild + u need to harmonize with ur Teammates. In PvE it's the same ; why would i play 1 Boonbot Chrono if my Pug - Groups dont even TRY to stand in any Well?

 

thank you very much for your comment.

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> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > So just to understand what you don't want, you don't want a build which is:

> >

> > **M**ost - **E**ffective - **T**actic - **A**vailable

> >

> > because quite frankly, that's what meta stands for.

> >

> > In short, you want people to share their random builds which they've tried without specifically telling you what worked best for them?

> >

> > A strange way to ask for good advice, but who am I to judge.

>

> GW2 Meta is designed arround Teamplay ; when playing solo, even in PvP the Meta build may be worse then a self designed build. If u play a Meta Build in PvP, u need ur Teammates to play a Metabuild + u need to harmonize with ur Teammates. In PvE it's the same ; why would i play 1 Boonbot Chrono if my Pug - Groups dont even TRY to stand in any Well?

This is untrue for most PvP builds though (with a very few exceptions like FB). In PvE, that's a totally different story.

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Hi! I'm not going to try to tell you how to tweak your build. You seem to have your own ideas on how best to do that. Instead, I'll just show you a few videos of my build in solo open world content. Maybe you'll see something you can use. I'll leave that up to you!

 

The build:

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnELDNohFMDWoBMMjlZjyMEWhWyf+7//vMAqtcD-jRxXABjqPIblgAs/wwK/mV9HCBsYNA-e

 

First, a fight that favors range: Mirage vs. Champion Mushroom Emperor

 

 

Next, for something more balanced: Mirage vs. Champion Forged Punisher bounty

 

 

And finally, a heavy-melee fight: Mirage vs. Tazula Mindclouder bounty

 

 

 

 

 

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I have to somewhat agree with Cyninja here:

Either you create your own build (which is perfectly fine) or you ask others for a good build, which will lead to the meta. You can't have both.

 

In Solo PvE play whatever you want, but when you step into competitive pvp, you can't ignore the meta.

You can create your own builds, but you still have to take the meta into account, as these are the builds most commonly found. Your build may be better against some other professions than the meta and may be a lot worse vs others. You need to know this so you can decide which fights you want to finish and which ones you want to flee, especially with mesmer, who has the tools to easily escape at will.

 

Now about your build.

For PvE - This is probably fine, dual signets will improve your damage over MI and False Oasis or Signet is also better.

For PvP - Nope. Stacking up phantasms does not work in PvP, also Elusive Mind is too good to miss. I could go on, but there probably wouldn't be much left of your build at the end.

Overall: Don't expect to just play the same build in PvE and PvP, these are like totally different games.

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I'm not even gonna bother getting into the meta thing for obvious reasons, but I'll give you some build advice.

 

Sigil of frailty is, well, really bad. I'd highly recommend either sigil of energy or sigil of stamina. The dodges give you more AOE hits from dune cloak and more ambush attacks. Plus, you get more active defense that way, which is always nice.

 

Your traits in illusions are good choices for single target dps, but they do pretty much nothing if you're just going around killing open world mobs. I'd recommend setting up your build templates to swap between what you have now (for single target) and maim+either the scepter trait or the shatter trait. That'll be much more effective for multiple targets/targets that die faster.

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You appear to be focused more on rapid clone generation than phantasms, so have you considered taking Infinite Horizon instead of Dune Cloak? This is allow all your scepter-generated clones to use the ambush skill with you, meaning you can stack up confusion and torment a lot faster on a single target. Also are you using your melee weapons enough to warrant taking Fencer's Finesse? I personally would swap that for Evasive Mirror for extra survivability. Finally, since you are in open world and therefore killing mobs very quickly, I personally would take Bloodlust or even Stamina sigils instead of fragility. Hope this helps :)

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@"AliamRationem.5172" thanks for the video, will look at it.

 

@"Bod.8261"

I started that I don't want the meta as I know all about it. Not fun for me, also finding different ways to play the game makes it more enjoyable for me.

As for the pointers on the build, first let me say thanks I will try that. But why do you say stacking phantasms doesn't work. Seem to work for, but then again like i said, am only a solo player and haven't really hard much problem.

 

@"Pyroatheist.9031" and @"Wandering Mist.2973"

Thanks for the input I will give those a go.

You are both right as my main focus is single damage rapid clone generation. I do try to the multiple target damage play when I swap to A/S but i find myself making a lot of error and losing HP fast. Maybe it because I my skills not just good enough or because bad connection, very bad connection. So I choose go give myself that extra safeguard to react.

 

I will try all your suggestion and see which works well for me.

 

A final word.

When someone post a build, do you test it out first before making suggestion or you just make your suggestions from experience or guess work? Cause I think maybe just maybe sometimes one should take sometime out and test the build out for yourself to see what the build is trying to really achieve. Other than killing mob or players fast.

 

Just saying.

 

Anyway thank for your input I will go and try them out.

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> @"Blades of Sabatine.5639" said:

> @"AliamRationem.5172" thanks for the video, will look at it.

>

> @"Bod.8261"

> I started that I don't want the meta as I know all about it. Not fun for me, also finding different ways to play the game makes it more enjoyable for me.

> As for the pointers on the build, first let me say thanks I will try that. But why do you say stacking phantasms doesn't work. Seem to work for, but then again like i said, am only a solo player and haven't really hard much problem.

>

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" and @"Wandering Mist.2973"

> Thanks for the input I will give those a go.

> You are both right as my main focus is single damage rapid clone generation. I do try to the multiple target damage play when I swap to A/S but i find myself making a lot of error and losing HP fast. Maybe it because I my skills not just good enough or because bad connection, very bad connection. So I choose go give myself that extra safeguard to react.

>

> I will try all your suggestion and see which works well for me.

>

> A final word.

> When someone post a build, do you test it out first before making suggestion or you just make your suggestions from experience or guess work? Cause I think maybe just maybe sometimes one should take sometime out and test the build out for yourself to see what the build is trying to really achieve. Other than killing mob or players fast.

>

> Just saying.

>

> Anyway thank for your input I will go and try them out.

 

I'll be honest, a lot of the time I will make suggestions based purely on what I see on the page, without testing it out first.

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> @"Blades of Sabatine.5639" said:

> But why do you say stacking phantasms doesn't work. Seem to work for, but then again like i said, am only a solo player and haven't really hard much problem.

 

You set up illusions 1-2-1 which is the typical phantasm-stacking playstyle: Summon phantasms, let them stack Phantasmal Force and they will deal the mayority of your damage.

This works great in PvE against longer living bosses, it doesn't work against many smaller mobs and obviously doesn't work in PvP - the phantasms will get killed or despawn as the enemy dies.

Then you say your focus is clone based - why do you invest this deep into phantasms then? Why not go all the way with chaos and IH?

 

It seems you have no clue of the meta after all.

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> @"Blades of Sabatine.5639" said:

> @"Bod.8261"

> I started that I don't want the meta as I know all about it. Not fun for me, also finding different ways to play the game makes it more enjoyable for me.

> As for the pointers on the build, first let me say thanks I will try that. But why do you say stacking phantasms doesn't work. Seem to work for, but then again like i said, am only a solo player and haven't really hard much problem.

 

I understand your point of view. I have a lot of fun messing around with builds and trying different things. I refuse to believe the people who came up with meta builds tried every single combination that exists. I also think there are more fun and interesting ways of doing things than focusing 100% on dps. They might not be competitive in group content (and I wouldn't bring an unconventional build unless I was convinced I wouldn't be dragging the group down), but I just enjoy experimenting. Who knows? You might stumble upon something other people might have not thought of.

 

> @"Blades of Sabatine.5639" said:

> Runes: 5 SR Nightmare to 1 SR Infiltration

> Nightmare helps with damage and duration, I do not see the need for the 6th anymore. It was good when it was torment when you use elite skills. The 2% extra damage to 50% Hp to me is a better option to all other. Again I may be wrong.

> Note on Runes: I just noticed Renegade Rune, so might trying that out.

 

I can understand not wanting the 6 rune bonus from Nightmare, but I'd think you'd benefit more from slotting a +25 condition damage or +25 power rune instead. I doubt +2% dmg is going to be very noticeable, and that's something you only get when a mob is half health. A +25 rune is something you're always benefiting from. If you want more condition duration, you could also swap two runes out for Runes of the Trapper which would give you another 10% in exchange for 75 condition damage.

 

 

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> @"Blades of Sabatine.5639" said:

> A final word.

> When someone post a build, do you test it out first before making suggestion or you just make your suggestions from experience or guess work? Cause I think maybe just maybe sometimes one should take sometime out and test the build out for yourself to see what the build is trying to really achieve. Other than killing mob or players fast.

 

No, I generally don't test out builds before making suggestions. At this point I have enough experience with mesmer that I can pretty much tell you exactly how any given mix of gear, traits, and utilities is going to play, what it'll be good at, what it won't, and how to improve it.

 

I've played this class pretty much every way it can possibly be played, experimented with every trait and utility, and wrestled with every build archetype. When new stuff gets released (like mirage), I get to go learn and experiment with that too, but it's never different enough to really rewrite what I already know.

 

As for what the build is trying to really achieve, well that's sort of an odd way to look at it. Builds don't try to achieve anything; players try to achieve things with builds. The goal comes from you, I can't set that for you. I can only tell you how to get there.

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@"Bod.8261":

Why do you still bring the meta up everytime? May be I should explain myself when I mean clones. I categorise them all, clones, illusions, phantasms all as clones. I know each works differently. When I chose the illusion trait i wanted compounding power malicious sorcery. But when I tired the build with Phantasms force, I noticed my test subject died faster, so kept with it.

As for pvp I play more support/ back line. when I mean support I don't mean you typical support role but in damage from a range. I try not to be the main focus of target.

 

@"Cantatus.4065" and @"Pyroatheist.9031"

thanks for for the good advice. I will take all on board.

 

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> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> When running Superior Rune of Nightmare x4 and not being condition duration caped, the ideal setup is to run 2 Superior Runes of the Trapper for the 25 condition damage and 10% condition duration. Careful though, that is a meta setup.

 

Indeed, and during open world play do you really need to be condition duration capped?

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> @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > When running Superior Rune of Nightmare x4 and not being condition duration caped, the ideal setup is to run 2 Superior Runes of the Trapper for the 25 condition damage and 10% condition duration. Careful though, that is a meta setup.

>

> Indeed, and during open world play do you really need to be condition duration capped?

 

No you do not, and I never said you need to be. I said it's the ideal setup while at the same time being meta informing that if TC does not wish to run meta setups he should look for an alternative.

 

The difference is, now TC knows what the ideal setup is and he can make changes or deviate from it knowing or being able to fully well calculate how far he is deviating from the ideal setup. He could put in some toughness or condition duration reduction runes for wvw or anything really depending on what his goal for the build is. Having valuable information on what the ideal setup is allows for comparisons as to how far you are moving away from it.

 

Why someone would actively decide to forego over 10% more damage on his build from literally 2 runes is beyond me, but I don't judge. I do take offense though against people complaining that they are given best-in-slot information when they themselves can decide how to use that information.

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> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> > > @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > > When running Superior Rune of Nightmare x4 and not being condition duration caped, the ideal setup is to run 2 Superior Runes of the Trapper for the 25 condition damage and 10% condition duration. Careful though, that is a meta setup.

> >

> > Indeed, and during open world play do you really need to be condition duration capped?

>

> No you do not, and I never said you need to be. I said it's the ideal setup while at the same time being meta informing that if TC does not wish to run meta setups he should look for an alternative.

>

> The difference is, now TC knows what the ideal setup is and he can make changes or deviate from it knowing or being able to fully well calculate how far he is deviating from the ideal setup. He could put in some toughness or condition duration reduction runes for wvw or anything really depending on what his goal for the build is. Having valuable information on what the ideal setup is allows for comparisons as to how far you are moving away from it.

>

> Why someone would actively decide to forego over 10% more damage on his build from literally 2 runes is beyond me, but I don't judge. I do take offense though against people complaining that they are given best-in-slot information when they themselves can decide how to use that information.

 

Well said. +1 from me.

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> @"Blades of Sabatine.5639" said:

> @"AliamRationem.5172" thanks for the video, will look at it.

>

> @"Bod.8261"

> I started that I don't want the meta as I know all about it. Not fun for me, also finding different ways to play the game makes it more enjoyable for me.

> As for the pointers on the build, first let me say thanks I will try that. But why do you say stacking phantasms doesn't work. Seem to work for, but then again like i said, am only a solo player and haven't really hard much problem.

>

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" and @"Wandering Mist.2973"

> Thanks for the input I will give those a go.

> You are both right as my main focus is single damage rapid clone generation. I do try to the multiple target damage play when I swap to A/S but i find myself making a lot of error and losing HP fast. Maybe it because I my skills not just good enough or because bad connection, very bad connection. So I choose go give myself that extra safeguard to react.

>

> I will try all your suggestion and see which works well for me.

>

> A final word.

> When someone post a build, do you test it out first before making suggestion or you just make your suggestions from experience or guess work? Cause I think maybe just maybe sometimes one should take sometime out and test the build out for yourself to see what the build is trying to really achieve. Other than killing mob or players fast.

>

> Just saying.

>

> Anyway thank for your input I will go and try them out.

 

No problem. I hope the videos are entertaining, if not useful!

 

So what is the build trying to achieve? If not putting out damage and not support (if you wanted support you would have chosen different trait lines and certainly not mirage over chrono!), then what? Survivability? You don't seem to be very focused on that either. And that's the problem I think other players are observing with your build. It lacks focus. You make conflicting choices that don't seem beneficial and it isn't clear why. What else can we do but suggest changes that provide better synergy? Of course, this inevitably draws us closer to the meta you wish to avoid.

 

 

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> @"Blades of Sabatine.5639" said:

> Before I start with the build, let me start by saying I don't want no meta build. So people please restrain from explaining it to me. I know all about it and am not interested. All my previous build I have made over the years have worked very well from vanilla and chrono builds. I just need help in improving this build further, making it more efficient for what I do.

>

> Note: if you can, please try and read through so you understand my reasons behind why I did what I did and my choices.

>

> Now that is out of the way here is my mirage build.

>

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAnc7ansnBdqhFMDOoBMMjlVDz/A2AngobhzQVosDMCCAA-jRiGQB4T9BAcGAQoyqis+wvUqkiNA8oSQc9QA6lKMBAOAou7u7u7u7u7u7uBA-e

>

> I mainly play solo (PvE and PvP).

>

> Weapons: Axe/Sword - Scepter/Pistol.

> S/P is my main weapon I play with. This gives me range advantage, good Condi and bust Condi damage plus CC if needed. Once I lose the advantage of my range, I will swap to A/S.

> I run on both weapons SS busting and SS Frailty. Simply for more damage and as I understand it, adding vuln helps with my overall damage.

>

> Utilities:

> Mirror for heals. reason (Short CD, and Reflection)

> Mirror Image (reason be it helps with my initial startup which is also very busty as I will explain later in my rotation.)

> Illusionary Ambush (more bust damage and evasion)

> Signet of Domination (more damage is always good)

> Jaunt (more condi/bust damage and evasion)

>

> Traits: I tried to pick the the best traits that I think works best with the build.

>

> Gear and Accessories: combination of Viper and Siniter

> I don't believe in maxing out one. Sinister gives me more condi damage while viper helps with duration. The thought behind this is the condi damage which will be higher with this setup last long enough rather then having a smaller condi damage lasting much longer.

>

> Runes: 5 SR Nightmare to 1 SR Infiltration

> Nightmare helps with damage and duration, I do not see the need for the 6th anymore. It was good when it was torment when you use elite skills. The 2% extra damage to 50% Hp to me is a better option to all other. Again I may be wrong.

> Note on Runes: I just noticed Renegade Rune, so might trying that out.

>

> Rotation: Rather than writing everything, using the link to the build I will use the numbers to the skills and trait, to explain my rotation.

>

> S/P: 4-7-5-3-Mirage Clock-1-1-1-Mirage Clock-1-1-1-8-1-1-1-Mirage Clock-1-1-1-3-1-1-1-Mirage Clock-1-1-1........ That is the main rotation in a nutshell. I have not been able to perfect the rotation to keep confusion high enough.

>

> Now that you have seen the build and read through, I am hoping maybe someone can see where this build can be further improved. Remember, I don't want no Meta build.

> Thanks.

 

I like where you're going with this. If you don't want to max out 1stat ( damage wise ) then I'd advise investing a little more into ferocity. I've been running some type of hybrid build since Vanilla and I can tell you that you need around 2k power ( I have 2218 with 25 stacks of bloodlust ) to do good damage. The reason I'm advising ferocity is because that increases your " critical damage" potential and the majority of my " burst damage " comes from crits even though my crit chance is around 33-35%. BUT HOW, you ask? Simple, there's a trait in dueling that gives you ferocity once your targets are below 75% as well as ferocity to your phantasms which makes your crit chances above 50% + toss in intelligence sigils ( underrated ) and everytime you swap your first 3 attacks have a 100% crit chance which also helps with bleed stacks ( on critical ). Another tip is trying out Signet of Ether, If you're not shattering much it'll give you between 320-350 HP per second ( when you have 3 illusions up ) basically works like warriors healing Sig. I've had a lot of success in Spvp, WvW, and PvE with my build and it's not "Meta" It seems that most people are caught up on "DPS" numbers instead of how a build actually works and survivability. Being high DPS means nothing if you can't survive the fight ? IMO. That being said there's things you can do to make the build more bursty in PvE being that mobs don't exhibit the counterplay and defensive abilities of other players, and still have a similar playstyle.

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Again, I'm not sure if you're shattering but if you're not then this might work. Over 2100 power 1158 condi ( which is more than enough to drive your enemies crazy ( WvW only ) 2500 armor is on the squishy side but survivable because mesmer, 18k Hp, 30% crit chance ( 50% with dueling trait and phantasmal fury ) < this should help greatly with your raw burst when paired with 192% critical damage, plenty of condition cleanse and stun breaks ( EM, blink. decoy, jaunt, mantra of the resolve ) You could drop EM for IH in PvE ( huge dps boost due to clones doing ambushes ) you could also drop PU for the shatter trait ( grants stability and boons when you shatter which is great for Finishing enemies ) or CI for CC spams in PvE ( power lock, F3, pistol Stun, etc. ) I dropped sword for torch because sword offhand is unless in a hybrid / condi heavy build. Torch offers an invis ( can be used offensively or defensively - when you come out of stealth it adds 3 stacks of burning onto your target and of you pop torch 5 at the same time you engage and that's an additional 4 stacks ( 2 from activation, 2 from phantasmal mage ). which is nice for when you're moving in for that melee dps and set up for axe 2 into axe 3, or ambush / AA. You're traits in illusion were all over the place so I wasn't sure if you wanted to play shatter or phantasm / clone which Is why I dropped it for Chaos Plus you get that lovely trait that converts 10% of your toughness to condition damage while doing so. I'm trying my best to theory craft this with the info you gave us. I didn't see any food or utility buffs, weapons, or infusions on your armor so I'm not sure how far off these stats are from what you actually run. I hope this helps or at least gets you thinking about what type of build / play style you're trying to achieve.

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