Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > I also elaborately explained what I meant in my OP and subsequent posts, and instead you focus on nitpicking minute details of the overal concept. Thats pretty much all you guys do, someone makes a point you get the jist of it and understand most of it or all of it, then you micro-analyze one tiny aspect to find a questionable discrepancy, then showcase minor discrepancy to invalidate the entire thread. Sorry thats lame and it doesn't work., and I see it over and over again. > > > > FACT: a huge number of skilled players are not able to connect with good raid groups or any raid groups for that matter, anet should look into it. That's it, no need to micro-analyze for cracks in that statement. It's all good. > > You can explain until you are blue in the face. It doesn't make you any less wrong, or more right. You keep saying micro-analyze. That's not even a word. It's a red herring you created to avoid the fact that your logic is inconsistent, your statements are grandiose, and downright full of entitlement. If i find something questionable, I'm going to point it out. And you ideally should care about that, because YOU are the one that said it. > > Anyone that says the word 'lame' in response to a statement shows how anti-intellectual they are. I don't care how 'lame' you feel something is. You came to US, we didn't come to you. > > > FACT: a huge number of skilled players are not able to connect with good raid groups or any raid groups for that matter, anet should look into it. That's it, no need to micro-analyze for cracks in that statement. It's all good. > > This isn't a fact. You haven't proven this, or cited a source. And there are no studies im aware of that even touch this information. CITATION NEEDED or gtfo. Conjecture is useless. > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > OH ok well im one of the ones who cannot connect (so you found one), with decent raid groups. Ive also talked to a ton of other people in the same boat as me and they quit trying to raid or don't bother or raid in other games because of it. The raids are easy for me personally, the raids are very easy compared to other mmo's raids. Trying to get into a group of raiders that can actually clear any of the content is very hard compared to other mmo's. If you think none of this is a problem then ok... great. > > It's not a problem for me, or anyone else who gets runs done. It's a problem, your problem, the said person that can't connect with others. It's YOUR problem, so YOU fix it. > > I question anyone that sates something is easy but cant even find a pug to take them, of which half they time they arent even required to talk. Silent runs exist for a reason. And that still doesn't explain why you can't do your own run, with minimal socializing required. Why haven't you formed a group with those 'people'? Dubious statement at best. > > I have mental disorders, and BPD, yet im still able to get my kitten in a group every week to clear every wing, with literally no social issues. Why? Because i know what im doing, and i put in effort even when it's 'easy' because I'm not a chump. I would never let such a small issue stop me from raiding, and neither should anyone else. Make all the excuses you like, it won't get you into raids. And a new system wouldn't change much, as you'd probably get kicked anyway given your demeanor. > Right it's a me problem.. only a ton of people share the same problem, there are posts on the forums weekly about alternatives or improvements to grouping in raid. But it's all me. Again nitpicking and attacking instead of adding to the issue. We get it, you don't like my attitude and you think raiding is fine. Well I disagree, you can insult me all you like, it just makes you look silly. Like you I also know what I'm doing when it comes to raiding, and that's why I made this post. It's also very evident now that you are one of the haves rather then the have nots. As you say you clear the whole raid. So this isn't even a problem for you, you aren't even reflective of the demographic that does have the problem with joining raids. So why be so judgemental towards those who do have a problem. The reasons you got into a raid group is unique to you, and there are other people besides you with problems. You should instead reflect on how lucky you are that you have no problems raiding, and show empathy towards others who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IseeU.4519 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Make your own groups, problem solved : NEXT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombyturtle.5980 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game. > > > > > > > > > > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style. > > > > > > I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me. > > > > > > Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all. > > > > Even if they implemented all 3 solutions, you would still be forced to group with noobs and have training runs for every run. Remove the ability to be elitist, be forced to play with the rest of the bad and inexperienced players. > > > > I didnt focus on any particular solution, just your suggestion to stop or reduce elitism. So please answer what you will do when you are grouped with 9 other players in PTV gear with condi weapons who have never stepped into a raid before. > > Well if there was no boss timer, it autogrouped me in with 9 noobs and the bosses were easier, I'd say we would def win eventually. If not I could easily auto join another group and outshine all the rest with a couple of simple clicks. People recruiting for harder raids or helping there friends who have hard core raid groups would notice me. > > No talking or elitism necessary. So you arent good enough to carry people on current difficulty raids during training runs but claim you are better than 99% of the playerbase. Because of this you think its necessary to tell anet they have a responsibility to spend money and time creating a whole new tier of raiding (which noone would play repeatedly without LI rewards), or massively nerf current raid levels. Nerfing current raid levels is an awful idea. Raids are meant to be challenging and the hardest content in the game. The last thing they need is nerfs. If anything they could use buffs. A second tier of raiding isnt the worst idea but I'd argue that its a waste since there are other options available to you ingame to get you into the elite raid groups without training runs if you are as good as you say: -Make you own group (LFM skilled exp, no LI requirements) -Join a raiding guild, alot have recruitment runs, you can prove yourself there. Also you should blame all the people who lie about their skill level and experience and then ruin runs when they inevitable mess up by not having a clue what they are doing. If people like that didnt exist in the game, elites could take you at your world that you are skilled, but because so many other people lied and ruined everything noone can trust random people anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Seteruss.4058 said: > Story mode/hard mode...as everywhere. > Problem solved > Dungeons have story/explorable mode yet speedrun parties were just as toxic and elitist. Fractals have four (five if you count CMs separately) difficulty tiers, yet the highest tier still has the same level of elitism. How come problem isn't "solved" there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahou.3924 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 You cannot really fix "Elitistm" because there are always simpletons who - apparently - NEED to behave on the lowest social level to feel good or cope with a hard/frutrating/whatever RL day (or claim that they are totally mature IRL yet feel like to behave like kitten). And if you take away their special bling bling that makes them feel superior, youl'll end up with the same neverending "discussion". Obviously, the same is valid for the oppsite party as well; just in reverse. It's the ultimate cesspool debate of of most (if not evey) MMOs. If not raids, there'd be other things to replace sooner or later that would lead to some form of elitistm or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Raids were a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Having different tiers of raiding is a solid idea imo, it allows the full player base to enjoy the content, and more importantly it provides a natural divide between the players who want highly tuned fights that require highly tuned builds and those that enjoy a more open casual approach with more scope to play custom builds. It worked for WOW (albeit that game is utterly screwed with its need to reward with power upgrades) The only issue with this is that you will get some people from the high end raids creating drama in the low level tier ('omg look at his dp's - kick him! he shouts) and players in the lower level raid trying to join a high end raid group but is ill prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > Having different tiers of raiding is a solid idea imo, it allows the full player base to enjoy the content, and more importantly it provides a natural divide between the players who want highly tuned fights that require highly tuned builds and those that enjoy a more open casual approach with more scope to play custom builds. It worked for WOW (albeit that game is utterly screwed with its need to reward with power upgrades) The only issue with this is that you will get some people from the high end raids creating drama in the low level tier ('omg look at his dp's - kick him! he shouts) and players in the lower level raid trying to join a high end raid group but is ill prepared. The only problem is the lower tier instanced content already exists. And it is even tiered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Feanor.2358 said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > Having different tiers of raiding is a solid idea imo, it allows the full player base to enjoy the content, and more importantly it provides a natural divide between the players who want highly tuned fights that require highly tuned builds and those that enjoy a more open casual approach with more scope to play custom builds. It worked for WOW (albeit that game is utterly screwed with its need to reward with power upgrades) The only issue with this is that you will get some people from the high end raids creating drama in the low level tier ('omg look at his dp's - kick him! he shouts) and players in the lower level raid trying to join a high end raid group but is ill prepared. > > The only problem is the lower tier instanced content already exists. And it is even tiered. ye tiered is wrong word, lower/high scaled difficulty levels. The critical aspects are dps requirements and one shot attacks. Relax these and you create the lower level experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @Feanor.2358 said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > Having different tiers of raiding is a solid idea imo, it allows the full player base to enjoy the content, and more importantly it provides a natural divide between the players who want highly tuned fights that require highly tuned builds and those that enjoy a more open casual approach with more scope to play custom builds. It worked for WOW (albeit that game is utterly screwed with its need to reward with power upgrades) The only issue with this is that you will get some people from the high end raids creating drama in the low level tier ('omg look at his dp's - kick him! he shouts) and players in the lower level raid trying to join a high end raid group but is ill prepared. > > > > The only problem is the lower tier instanced content already exists. And it is even tiered. > > ye tiered is wrong word, lower/high scaled difficulty levels. > > The critical aspects are dps requirements and one shot attacks. Relax these and you create the lower level experience. The point still stands though. Fractals fit your description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thessassin.5376 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Hey guys, i don't raid because some raiders are elitist but i'm OBVIOUSLY better than 90% of gw2 players (cleared vanilla story solo) so i don't feel like joining training runs only to wipe over and over again. Can we make like a raid matchmaking so it can automatically join me with people who can carry me? thanks, Anet. Love u guys. Oh also if you wouldn't mind putting in an easy mode, (not for me though, for other players since i'm better than 90%) that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykper.6583 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Cynn.1659 said: > > @Sykper.6583 said: > > > - They can never be 'outgeared', ala you can't just get enough Gearscore / Item Level to arguably ignore mechanics. > > > > I guess you don't raid enough then. Raids are already outgeared since you can ignore mechanics like there is no tomorrow. > * Cairn dies so fast that he doesn't do anything, at most he will teleport around only once. > * Xera you can just dps her down in the middle during first 50%. > * No updraft gorse > * Kc is one giant fight about skipping mechanics > * Mid Sloth will die so fast that you barely have to do any mechanics. > > Wing 4 was a wash for difficulty, Cairn should have been made harder even with his sloppy effects on a green platform. That Xera strat requires high enough DPS to do so, it's risky but worth if you pull it off. Gorseval was a bit more engaging back in the days before no updraft came out, the devs admit that it was rather interesting to see how the community can do that with their encounters. It's also another point towards what I'm referring to, the DPS checks were just too tame, the timers weren't killing raiders. You would have to explain 'skipping' mechanics on KC to me since the fight encourages doing the Orb mechanics properly to avoid his soft enrage, unless you can somehow ignore killing big illusions or mitigate merged ones? Mid Sloth is a viable strat, but again proves my point, the encounters are very fast with the damage we pump out right now. We could probably chop the timers on all bosses by about a quarter or even **half** their duration, and it would be fine. They could also, alternatively, bump up the health pools in the next wing instead so that mechanics can't be skipped by simply getting through phase changes at certain health percents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirin.7306 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Raids are what killed the MMO genre. really shocked Anet added them tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe.1807 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Dont think Etilism is something you kind fix...this is the playerbase fault and not Anet...it existed before with dungeons, the only diferrence is that all you needed was zerker armor set and would be good to go...kind of funny since(I guess) raids were made for the anti zerker meta people, the ones that wish to play their cleric guardians and other nonsense, but now the same people who made the zerker meta mentality are the sames that push this new meta, if you dont play "x" profession with the "y" build you are out, and once again the casual players are left behind...and now its kind of even worse since people use 3 party programs to check dps and shit, so if you arent doing "z%" of damage just wait a little cause the squad kick is incoming. In my opinion Raids were the worst mistake that Anet ever made...not only killed the competive scene of WvW and sPvP, since elite specs were made OP so they could face the raids encounters, but it also killed the "play how you want"...back on the old dungeons you could run a group with whatever kind of builds, if you had the skills and allready knew the encounters(everyone did, years without any new content or updates) you would face no trouble...now for raids, you need a tank, you need a support, you need a healer, etc, and those used to be the things that Anet was totally against it...it kind of sucks to see what this game used to be, and what it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Kirin.7306 said: > Raids are what killed the MMO genre. really shocked Anet added them tbh. [citation needed] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > Hey guys, i don't raid because some raiders are elitist but i'm OBVIOUSLY better than 90% of gw2 players (cleared vanilla story solo) so i don't feel like joining training runs only to wipe over and over again. Can we make like a raid matchmaking so it can automatically join me with people who can carry me? thanks, Anet. Love u guys. Oh also if you wouldn't mind putting in an easy mode, (not for me though, for other players since i'm better than 90%) that would be great. funny how raiders ALLWAYS equate things in terms of player A is better/less lazy/more committed than player B. So yes Easy mode is a good idea, because actually its just content that 90%+ of the player base do not feel compelled to play in, and easy mode is inclusive, without taking away content from those wanting harder modes. Win Win for those not looking over the fence and down at other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Shiyo.3578 said: > Raids were a mistake. I agree, when competent raiders are told that they should be treated like babies for simple raid content, I shudder to think what players who don't know what they are doing put themselves through, all in a community that thinks there isn't a problem with excessive hoop jumping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I've never seen so many people adamant about cutting content in the game because either they are bad at it or hate the people who can do it. These aren't solutions if anet actually spent time to make the game harder at earlier stages in the game i really do feel that the raiding community would lighten up. As it stands there ate MP 200+ people who do not know what break bars are, what cc is, or what combo finishers do what on combo fields. They no idea about the fight at hand either that's not something u can blame squad leaders for that's the game, gw2 hand holds your hands for 95% of the game so when new or average players enter that 5% they will run into that barrier. Although i agree for this game the barrier should not be that high but it is what it is. Moral of the story the majority of the game do not know basic mechanics, so the people who do know the mechanics and have made it to raiding farm mode punishes the competent players because the vast majority has no real understanding of game mechanics and you can blame that on mindless OW content that only requires you to mash ever key on your keyboard with out fear of death because you know in tat zerg of 100 guys atleast 2-3 of them are gonna revive but if you don't get a revive just wp and pick up where you left off at. > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > Hey guys, i don't raid because some raiders are elitist but i'm OBVIOUSLY better than 90% of gw2 players (cleared vanilla story solo) so i don't feel like joining training runs only to wipe over and over again. Can we make like a raid matchmaking so it can automatically join me with people who can carry me? thanks, Anet. Love u guys. Oh also if you wouldn't mind putting in an easy mode, (not for me though, for other players since i'm better than 90%) that would be great. > > funny how raiders ALLWAYS equate things in terms of player A is better/less lazy/more committed than player B. So yes Easy mode is a good idea, because actually its just content that 90%+ of the player base do not feel compelled to play in, and easy mode is inclusive, without taking away content from those wanting harder modes. Win Win for those not looking over the fence and down at other people. No your just gonna get a bunch of people who complain that they can't do that content either, if there gated content thats being bar because of skill level people will complain, this happens in ff14/tera/wow all the time. > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > Hey guys, i don't raid because some raiders are elitist but i'm OBVIOUSLY better than 90% of gw2 players (cleared vanilla story solo) so i don't feel like joining training runs only to wipe over and over again. Can we make like a raid matchmaking so it can automatically join me with people who can carry me? thanks, Anet. Love u guys. Oh also if you wouldn't mind putting in an easy mode, (not for me though, for other players since i'm better than 90%) that would be great. > > funny how raiders ALLWAYS equate things in terms of player A is better/less lazy/more committed than player B. So yes Easy mode is a good idea, because actually its just content that 90%+ of the player base do not feel compelled to play in, and easy mode is inclusive, without taking away content from those wanting harder modes. Win Win for those not looking over the fence and down at other people. > @Felipe.1807 said: > Dont think Etilism is something you kind fix...this is the playerbase fault and not Anet...it existed before with dungeons, the only diferrence is that all you needed was zerker armor set and would be good to go...kind of funny since(I guess) raids were made for the anti zerker meta people, the ones that wish to play their cleric guardians and other nonsense, but now the same people who made the zerker meta mentality are the sames that push this new meta, if you dont play "x" profession with the "y" build you are out, and once again the casual players are left behind...and now its kind of even worse since people use 3 party programs to check dps and kitten, so if you arent doing "z%" of damage just wait a little cause the squad kick is incoming. > In my opinion Raids were the worst mistake that Anet ever made...not only killed the competive scene of WvW and sPvP, since elite specs were made OP so they could face the raids encounters, but it also killed the "play how you want"...back on the old dungeons you could run a group with whatever kind of builds, if you had the skills and allready knew the encounters(everyone did, years without any new content or updates) you would face no trouble...now for raids, you need a tank, you need a support, you need a healer, etc, and those used to be the things that Anet was totally against it...it kind of sucks to see what this game used to be, and what it is now. I disagree the wvw or the spvp people were going to leave anyways anets PC snowflake culture really ticks alot of people who pvp, this is why we have so many people complaining about losers getting rewards in pvp destroying its integrity. I don't know how raids destroyed game if raids in themself in the game exist in a vacuum next to the rest of the content you can get full ascended gear with out raiding. You don't need to raid for anything what so ever. Please do not try to gut content out of the game because you can't clear it. Further more whats destroying this game is since god damn ORR every single patch has been in some way making the game easier, so when something like a raid comes out people are ill prepared to to content and squad commands get burned for taking chances, the solution here isn't to remove raids its to better educate the population so commanders can respect people more. FF14 doesnt have this community because content is gated by feats and iLvL so pt leaders give you the benefit of the doubt. Here in gw2 there is no such thing nor does this game gate content in a way that you know that the play is competent for example fotm, which doesn't have the kinda of community raiding has because you have to prove your self by clearing all the content in the lowers tiers. TL'DR Solve the raiding issue by actually making other parts of the game harder or gate the content behind simliar but slightly easier content so commanders trust the play base more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Genesis.5169 said: > I've never seen so many people adamant about cutting content in the game because either they are bad at it or hate the people who can do it. These aren't solutions if anet actually spent time to make the game harder at earlier stages in the game i really do feel that the raiding community would lighten up. As it stands there ate MP 200+ people who do not know what break bars are, what cc is, or what combo finishers do what on combo fields. > > They no idea about the fight at hand either that's not something u can blame squad leaders for that's the game, gw2 hand holds your hands for 95% of the game so when new or average players enter that 5% they will run into that barrier. Although i agree for this game the barrier should not be that high but it is what it is. > > Moral of the story the majority of the game do not know basic mechanics, so the people who do know the mechanics and have made it to raiding farm mode punishes the competent players because the vast majority has no real understand of game mechanics and you can blame that on mindless OW content that only requires you to mash ever key on your keyboard with out fear of death because you know in tat zerg of 100 guys atleast 2-3 of them are gonna revive but if you don't get a revive just wp and pick up where you left off at. > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > Hey guys, i don't raid because some raiders are elitist but i'm OBVIOUSLY better than 90% of gw2 players (cleared vanilla story solo) so i don't feel like joining training runs only to wipe over and over again. Can we make like a raid matchmaking so it can automatically join me with people who can carry me? thanks, Anet. Love u guys. Oh also if you wouldn't mind putting in an easy mode, (not for me though, for other players since i'm better than 90%) that would be great. > > > > funny how raiders ALLWAYS equate things in terms of player A is better/less lazy/more committed than player B. So yes Easy mode is a good idea, because actually its just content that 90%+ of the player base do not feel compelled to play in, and easy mode is inclusive, without taking away content from those wanting harder modes. Win Win for those not looking over the fence and down at other people. > > No your just gonna a bunch of people who complain that they can't do that content either, if there gated content thats being bar because of skill level people will complain, this happens in ff14/tera/wow all the time. You could use that arguement against anything, its moot. Wow is screwed becaue theres a power race going on whereas in GW2 the lower dfficulity content would simply open up the content to more people with no side effects on game balancing or hard mode raids. The only people this affects are those that want raids to be exclusive to protect their own interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > I also elaborately explained what I meant in my OP and subsequent posts, and instead you focus on nitpicking minute details of the overal concept. Thats pretty much all you guys do, someone makes a point you get the jist of it and understand most of it or all of it, then you micro-analyze one tiny aspect to find a questionable discrepancy, then showcase minor discrepancy to invalidate the entire thread. Sorry thats lame and it doesn't work., and I see it over and over again. > > > > > > FACT: a huge number of skilled players are not able to connect with good raid groups or any raid groups for that matter, anet should look into it. That's it, no need to micro-analyze for cracks in that statement. It's all good. > > > > You can explain until you are blue in the face. It doesn't make you any less wrong, or more right. You keep saying micro-analyze. That's not even a word. It's a red herring you created to avoid the fact that your logic is inconsistent, your statements are grandiose, and downright full of entitlement. If i find something questionable, I'm going to point it out. And you ideally should care about that, because YOU are the one that said it. > > > > Anyone that says the word 'lame' in response to a statement shows how anti-intellectual they are. I don't care how 'lame' you feel something is. You came to US, we didn't come to you. > > > > > FACT: a huge number of skilled players are not able to connect with good raid groups or any raid groups for that matter, anet should look into it. That's it, no need to micro-analyze for cracks in that statement. It's all good. > > > > This isn't a fact. You haven't proven this, or cited a source. And there are no studies im aware of that even touch this information. CITATION NEEDED or gtfo. Conjecture is useless. > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > OH ok well im one of the ones who cannot connect (so you found one), with decent raid groups. Ive also talked to a ton of other people in the same boat as me and they quit trying to raid or don't bother or raid in other games because of it. The raids are easy for me personally, the raids are very easy compared to other mmo's raids. Trying to get into a group of raiders that can actually clear any of the content is very hard compared to other mmo's. If you think none of this is a problem then ok... great. > > > > It's not a problem for me, or anyone else who gets runs done. It's a problem, your problem, the said person that can't connect with others. It's YOUR problem, so YOU fix it. > > > > I question anyone that sates something is easy but cant even find a pug to take them, of which half they time they arent even required to talk. Silent runs exist for a reason. And that still doesn't explain why you can't do your own run, with minimal socializing required. Why haven't you formed a group with those 'people'? Dubious statement at best. > > > > I have mental disorders, and BPD, yet im still able to get my kitten in a group every week to clear every wing, with literally no social issues. Why? Because i know what im doing, and i put in effort even when it's 'easy' because I'm not a chump. I would never let such a small issue stop me from raiding, and neither should anyone else. Make all the excuses you like, it won't get you into raids. And a new system wouldn't change much, as you'd probably get kicked anyway given your demeanor. > > > > Right it's a me problem.. only a ton of people share the same problem, there are posts on the forums weekly about alternatives or improvements to grouping in raid. But it's all me. Again nitpicking and attacking instead of adding to the issue. We get it, you don't like my attitude and you think raiding is fine. Well I disagree, you can insult me all you like, it just makes you look silly. Like you I also know what I'm doing when it comes to raiding, and that's why I made this post. > > It's also very evident now that you are one of the haves rather then the have nots. As you say you clear the whole raid. So this isn't even a problem for you, you aren't even reflective of the demographic that does have the problem with joining raids. So why be so judgemental towards those who do have a problem. The reasons you got into a raid group is unique to you, and there are other people besides you with problems. You should instead reflect on how lucky you are that you have no problems raiding, and show empathy towards others who do. Then if there are so many, why don't you PM them or make an LFG to form a group for raiding? If there are so many, it shouldn't matter if some of them are on the region you aren't (EU vs NA) or have a different schedule than you. You should be able to find 9 others to raid if there are really that many of you have trouble getting into raids otherwise. Or are you unsure of their skill level based on what they said/claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > Hey guys, i don't raid because some raiders are elitist but i'm OBVIOUSLY better than 90% of gw2 players (cleared vanilla story solo) so i don't feel like joining training runs only to wipe over and over again. Can we make like a raid matchmaking so it can automatically join me with people who can carry me? thanks, Anet. Love u guys. Oh also if you wouldn't mind putting in an easy mode, (not for me though, for other players since i'm better than 90%) that would be great. > > funny how raiders ALLWAYS equate things in terms of player A is better/less lazy/more committed than player B. So yes Easy mode is a good idea, because actually its just content that 90%+ of the player base do not feel compelled to play in, and easy mode is inclusive, without taking away content from those wanting harder modes. Win Win for those not looking over the fence and down at other people. > @Felipe.1807 said: > Dont think Etilism is something you kind fix...this is the playerbase fault and not Anet...it existed before with dungeons, the only diferrence is that all you needed was zerker armor set and would be good to go...kind of funny since(I guess) raids were made for the anti zerker meta people, the ones that wish to play their cleric guardians and other nonsense, but now the same people who made the zerker meta mentality are the sames that push this new meta, if you dont play "x" profession with the "y" build you are out, and once again the casual players are left behind...and now its kind of even worse since people use 3 party programs to check dps and kitten, so if you arent doing "z%" of damage just wait a little cause the squad kick is incoming. > In my opinion Raids were the worst mistake that Anet ever made...not only killed the competive scene of WvW and sPvP, since elite specs were made OP so they could face the raids encounters, but it also killed the "play how you want"...back on the old dungeons you could run a group with whatever kind of builds, if you had the skills and allready knew the encounters(everyone did, years without any new content or updates) you would face no trouble...now for raids, you need a tank, you need a support, you need a healer, etc, and those used to be the things that Anet was totally against it...it kind of sucks to see what this game used to be, and what it is now. > @Genesis.5169 said: > I've never seen so many people adamant about cutting content in the game because either they are bad at it or hate the people who can do it. These aren't solutions if anet actually spent time to make the game harder at earlier stages in the game i really do feel that the raiding community would lighten up. As it stands there ate MP 200+ people who do not know what break bars are, what cc is, or what combo finishers do what on combo fields. > > They no idea about the fight at hand either that's not something u can blame squad leaders for that's the game, gw2 hand holds your hands for 95% of the game so when new or average players enter that 5% they will run into that barrier. Although i agree for this game the barrier should not be that high but it is what it is. > > Moral of the story the majority of the game do not know basic mechanics, so the people who do know the mechanics and have made it to raiding farm mode punishes the competent players because the vast majority has no real understand of game mechanics and you can blame that on mindless OW content that only requires you to mash ever key on your keyboard with out fear of death because you know in tat zerg of 100 guys atleast 2-3 of them are gonna revive but if you don't get a revive just wp and pick up where you left off at. > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > Hey guys, i don't raid because some raiders are elitist but i'm OBVIOUSLY better than 90% of gw2 players (cleared vanilla story solo) so i don't feel like joining training runs only to wipe over and over again. Can we make like a raid matchmaking so it can automatically join me with people who can carry me? thanks, Anet. Love u guys. Oh also if you wouldn't mind putting in an easy mode, (not for me though, for other players since i'm better than 90%) that would be great. > > > > funny how raiders ALLWAYS equate things in terms of player A is better/less lazy/more committed than player B. So yes Easy mode is a good idea, because actually its just content that 90%+ of the player base do not feel compelled to play in, and easy mode is inclusive, without taking away content from those wanting harder modes. Win Win for those not looking over the fence and down at other people. > > No your just gonna a bunch of people who complain that they can't do that content either, if there gated content thats being bar because of skill level people will complain, this happens in ff14/tera/wow all the time. > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @Genesis.5169 said: > > I've never seen so many people adamant about cutting content in the game because either they are bad at it or hate the people who can do it. These aren't solutions if anet actually spent time to make the game harder at earlier stages in the game i really do feel that the raiding community would lighten up. As it stands there ate MP 200+ people who do not know what break bars are, what cc is, or what combo finishers do what on combo fields. > > > > They no idea about the fight at hand either that's not something u can blame squad leaders for that's the game, gw2 hand holds your hands for 95% of the game so when new or average players enter that 5% they will run into that barrier. Although i agree for this game the barrier should not be that high but it is what it is. > > > > Moral of the story the majority of the game do not know basic mechanics, so the people who do know the mechanics and have made it to raiding farm mode punishes the competent players because the vast majority has no real understand of game mechanics and you can blame that on mindless OW content that only requires you to mash ever key on your keyboard with out fear of death because you know in tat zerg of 100 guys atleast 2-3 of them are gonna revive but if you don't get a revive just wp and pick up where you left off at. > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > Hey guys, i don't raid because some raiders are elitist but i'm OBVIOUSLY better than 90% of gw2 players (cleared vanilla story solo) so i don't feel like joining training runs only to wipe over and over again. Can we make like a raid matchmaking so it can automatically join me with people who can carry me? thanks, Anet. Love u guys. Oh also if you wouldn't mind putting in an easy mode, (not for me though, for other players since i'm better than 90%) that would be great. > > > > > > funny how raiders ALLWAYS equate things in terms of player A is better/less lazy/more committed than player B. So yes Easy mode is a good idea, because actually its just content that 90%+ of the player base do not feel compelled to play in, and easy mode is inclusive, without taking away content from those wanting harder modes. Win Win for those not looking over the fence and down at other people. > > > > No your just gonna a bunch of people who complain that they can't do that content either, if there gated content thats being bar because of skill level people will complain, this happens in ff14/tera/wow all the time. > > You could use that arguement against anything, its moot. Wow is screwed becaue theres a power race going on whereas in GW2 the lower dfficulity content would simply open up the content to more people with no side effects on game balancing or hard mode raids. The only people this affects are those that want raids to be exclusive to protect their own interests. You forget making content too easy will allow for less things to do which will lead to a decline in the overall playerbase, people should instead of thinking how can we make content easier to how can we make players better at the game while they level or do content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LONGA.1652 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I disagree on Elitism. Raid on this doesn't have much skill ceiling . But it lack informations how to approach it. Most people in this game who don't read wiki because its too much for them and it doesn't have clear progression into raid. Raid is all about making trust for the group . So casuals will suffer from Elitism. Because there are no real metric to gauge proficiency at the class before forming groups. I've play FF14 and had a taste of terrible group made by Duty finder and come to conclusion that if you want to do high level content you gonna need a real group who can carry them self and you can't ignore the facts that GW2 was aimed for causal so long that raids become a different game for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behellagh.1468 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @Behellagh.1468 said: > > Fixing the hubris of mankind ... I'm sure they're on it. > > im glad you've spent most of the post nitpicking the topic title as well as basically proclaiming that I have no skill, rather then coming up with anything useful. I guess raiding is great how it is. No, my point is elitism will always exist in any game where the "meta" is the end all be all. It was there in Dungeons. It's their in Fractals. And if Raids were suppose to be the hardest content in the game, it will exist there as well. PUGs and some groups will always run down some checklist that they've downloaded that lists the "requirements" to be a member of their raid team and if you don't check all the boxes you can't play with them. Fixing human nature is outside the purview of the dev team and if they did make raiding "easier" so more can enjoy raiding then they will lose the hardcore players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyraven.4258 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 It's really a simple solution that arenanet as a company practices in many areas already and that is a zero tolerance for rude and insulting behavior. So it wouldn't be a matter of fixing elitism, but addressing the rude toxic behavior that comes with it...which is more doable I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > You could use that arguement against anything, its moot. Wow is screwed becaue theres a power race going on whereas in GW2 the lower dfficulity content would simply open up the content to more people with no side effects on game balancing or hard mode raids. The only people this affects are those that want raids to be exclusive to protect their own interests. Incorrect. Tiered raids would affect people whose content-of-choice would be delayed or canceled to free up dev resources to make those tiered raids. With a static or shrinking player-base, dev resources are not unlimited. There is little evidence that the people who would want easy-mode raids are numerous enough to warrant the resources needed. There may also be little evidence that the demographic that does not care spit about raids is any larger. However, the game as a whole was intended to focus on persistent world PvE content as a main staple of the post-80 game, rather than instanced content. Moving toward a raid-centric game would be a departure from that core philosophy of GW2 PvE. It stands to reason that there are a lot of players who bought and play GW2 precisely for that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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