If you're going to add more raids, fix elitism first

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Sorry I don't do training raids, whatever that is. All I need is to watch a YouTube video and I can 1 shot a boss, I don't need to practice mechanics in person lol. I did one raid in vale after watching 3 boss fights and got the title undefeated. Granted not entirely me since nobody else died but I was part of the equation as in neither did I.

 

Proving anything to you guys is impossible because by default, assume that everyone isn't a good player. I would much rather join an easy raid, obliterate the bosses and get into a better group, no verbal convincing necessary.

 

You also setup a catch 22 where if I say how good I am, then I must be lying or arrogant and we don't like you. If I'm humble then I have to do a training raid like its kindergarten. And that still requires convincing to get in and I get to be babied. Others in the group are bound to fail and I can win all night long but ultimately the group fails and organizers of said training raid assume that the majority isn't very good because it's hard to shine in boss fights if the entire group loses the fight all night long.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Proving anything to you guys is impossible because by default, assume that everyone isn't a good player. I would much rather join an easy raid, obliterate the bosses and get into a better group, no verbal convincing necessary.

 

Only that would never happen, if you defeat an easy Raid you prove you can defeat the easy Raid but says nothing about you beating the normal Raid. Take a look at Fractal CMs for an example of why this wouldn't work.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > Proving anything to you guys is impossible because by default, assume that everyone isn't a good player. I would much rather join an easy raid, obliterate the bosses and get into a better group, no verbal convincing necessary.

>

> Only that would never happen, if you defeat an easy Raid you prove you can defeat the easy Raid but says nothing about you beating the normal Raid. Take a look at Fractal CMs for an example of why this wouldn't work.

 

Not true elite players go to lower tier raids to recruit in other games all the time, no such system In gw2

[Lunarlife.5128]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > Proving anything to you guys is impossible because by default, assume that everyone isn't a good player. I would much rather join an easy raid, obliterate the bosses and get into a better group, no verbal convincing necessary.

> >

> > Only that would never happen, if you defeat an easy Raid you prove you can defeat the easy Raid but says nothing about you beating the normal Raid. Take a look at Fractal CMs for an example of why this wouldn't work.

>

> Not true elite players go to lower tier raids to recruit in other games all the time, no such system In gw2

 

In other games (?) Elite players will take one or two from time to time to train but that's usually if they're a guildy or know someone.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > Your also saying that none of my experience matters... right lol. Proving my point nothing I say or do convinces ppl to let you into there raid groups Anet must do something.

> >

>

> There is nothing Anet can do about that. You are a bad player unless proven otherwise and you can only prove that you are good one by actually playing in a training run, or impressing that static that is recruiting with your skillz. Maybe WoW raids were trash then, or you got carried there and you want to be carried here too.

 

Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

 

its really funny, I say im skilled, you don't believe me, then ask why you think im skilled. I tell you why I know I am skilled, then you doubt me further and think im not nice lol. Its impossible to win or get anything done or anything that I want, no player should be subjected to this type of scrutiny, even less so for skilled ones. This is the type of psychological game I have to play with people everytime I try to get into a game.

 

Oh default your not good > are you good tell us why? > we don't believe you and now that you told us we don't like you either so we won't let you in because you told us what we asked. Me > can I show you? > No you can't get into our raid group we don't like you and don't believe you. ad infinitum.

 

If there was a lower difficulty > auto join whatever > top dps, me, dosent die me > other raiders - hey man wanna join our group > me > sure > problem solved.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Erm? Elitist already exist since day one. What anet did throughout the years is to encourage more elitist through various changes, not just because of raid. Raid is just a place where you get to see the end result of the changes.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> Erm? Elitist already exist since day one. What anet did throughout the years is to encourage more elitist through various changes, not just because of raid. Raid is just a place where you get to see the end result of the changes.

 

This is completely true

[Shirlias.8104]

 

 

 

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

 

Well, wow PvE is mostly tryhard ( a matter or time mostly, though ofc like every other game you have to be efficient with your class ) since the top guilds do many attempts.

 

GW2 legend is more like a joke due to the playerbase pool ( play the right class and spam games. Also previously with duoq was even easier ).

Don't even mention the stronghold season.

 

 

[Genesis.5169]

Wow, what a way to justify it. Literally screaming at the sky blaming all of the wrong things for the issue. How about anet releases more raids which newer players will be interested it. And if they are fun eventually the newer players will outnumber the older ones.

 

AND WHY CAN'T ANY OF YOU META NAYSAYS MAKE YOUR OWN CASUAL PTS.

 

Seriously i play everyday and when i look in lfg i do not see people hosting casual non meta runs if you guys really want it host it. Jesus every time you get kicked out of a party for being a scrub or non meta why isn't your first response, fuck you guys ima make the pt my self, use google research the fight watch youtube or something. Every single one of you who complains about attitude is the reason why you guys don't raid that isn't the reason its because your do damn lazy to make your own party or too lazy to google how to do the fight before you join a raid you've been in the first time.

 

Granted the GW2 Raiding community is bad but what your advocating is complete and utter absurdity OP.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @Genesis.5169 said:

> Wow, what a way to justify it. Literally screaming at the sky blaming all of the wrong things for the issue. How about anet releases more raids which newer players will be interested it. And if they are fun eventually the newer players will outnumber the older ones.

>

> AND WHY CAN'T ANY OF YOU META NAYSAYS MAKE YOUR OWN CASUAL PTS.

>

> Seriously i play everyday and when i look in lfg i do not see people hosting casual non meta runs if you guys really want it host it. Jesus every time you get kicked out of a party for being a scrub or non meta why isn't your first response, kitten you guys ima make the pt my self, use google research the fight watch youtube or something. Every single one of you who complains about attitude is the reason why you guys don't raid that isn't the reason its because your do kitten lazy to make your own party or too lazy to google how to do the fight before you join a raid you've been in the first time.

>

> Granted the GW2 Raiding community is bad but what your advocating is complete and utter absurdity OP.

 

all i advocated is that anet do something to fix it? you even said the gw2 raiding community is bad... I don't get it. We cant mind manipulate people to make them nicer or more understanding, so it's anets job to do something....

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @Shirlias.8104 said:

>

>

>

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

>

> Well, wow PvE is mostly tryhard ( a matter or time mostly, though ofc like every other game you have to be efficient with your class ) since the top guilds do many attempts.

>

> GW2 legend is more like a joke due to the playerbase pool ( play the right class and spam games. Also previously with duoq was even easier ).

> Don't even mention the stronghold season.

>

>

 

I have Undefeated/Eternal title from Vale.. If i was carried I would of been one shotted and not gotten the title, but I didnt die and have the title, Or does that skill not translate either because its not ALL the raids in gw2.. Nothing convinces you guys... This is why people are complaining and need the raids to change, if someone who is skilled like me can have such a hard time, imagine how others who aren't as skill must fair

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

>

 

I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, being rank 7 in WoW and getting 2x legend in pvp proves absolutely nothing about your skill in Raids. I even gave you, more than once, the example of fractal 100 and fractal 100 CM, which is the EXACT same instance, only with different/altered mechanics. Yet you cannot prove how good you are in Fractal 100 CM, no matter how many times you finish Fractal 100. It means absolutely nothing.

 

If such similar content means nothing, then it's obvious that being good in other games also means nothing. And there is nothing for Anet to do here.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

> >

>

> I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, being rank 7 in WoW and getting 2x legend in pvp proves absolutely nothing about your skill in Raids. I even gave you, more than once, the example of fractal 100 and fractal 100 CM, which is the EXACT same instance, only with different/altered mechanics. Yet you cannot prove how good you are in Fractal 100 CM, no matter how many times you finish Fractal 100. It means absolutely nothing.

>

> If such similar content means nothing, then it's obvious that being good in other games also means nothing. And there is nothing for Anet to do here.

 

What about my Eternal title from vale, that doesn't count either? still not good? Doesn't translate to skill... - carried? This is beyond absurd at this point, and showcases that anet has a real problem on there hands, this is what every raider faces right here in joining a raid...

 

they need to make raids easier or facilitate group entry in some way to make it so people do not feel the need to scrutinize players so much to the point of absurdity.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> What about my Eternal title from vale, that doesn't count either? still not good? Doesn't translate to skill... - carried? This is beyond absurd at this point, and showcases that anet has a real problem on there hands, this is what every raider faces right here in joining a raid...

 

You will probably be taken in a Spirit Vale pug by having that title, but it proves nothing about your skill in the other Raids.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > What about my Eternal title from vale, that doesn't count either? still not good? Doesn't translate to skill... - carried? This is beyond absurd at this point, and showcases that anet has a real problem on there hands, this is what every raider faces right here in joining a raid...

>

> You will probably be taken in a Spirit Vale pug by having that title, but it proves nothing about your skill in the other Raids.

 

thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely.

 

This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process.

[Seera.5916]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

> > >

> >

> > I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, being rank 7 in WoW and getting 2x legend in pvp proves absolutely nothing about your skill in Raids. I even gave you, more than once, the example of fractal 100 and fractal 100 CM, which is the EXACT same instance, only with different/altered mechanics. Yet you cannot prove how good you are in Fractal 100 CM, no matter how many times you finish Fractal 100. It means absolutely nothing.

> >

> > If such similar content means nothing, then it's obvious that being good in other games also means nothing. And there is nothing for Anet to do here.

>

> What about my Eternal title from vale, that doesn't count either? still not good? Doesn't translate to skill... - carried? This is beyond absurd at this point, and showcases that anet has a real problem on there hands, this is what every raider faces right here in joining a raid...

>

> they need to make raids easier or facilitate group entry in some way to make it so people do not feel the need to scrutinize players so much to the point of absurdity.

 

It shows that you have skill with that raid and that given training in the other raid wings, you'll be a good raider in more than just that one wing.

 

Some groups do not have the time to risk having to train someone who needs it explained in detail or has to see it actually happen to them when they raid. Unfortunately, no amount of AP, titles, DPS, gear, etc will let them know how you learn. There is nothing that can show others that you can learn things 100% by just watching YouTube videos. Most people can't. The YouTube videos will also not let you know what to do when something goes wrong. Training raids help with that. Because you're more likely to have something fail.

 

It is not elitist for raiding groups to demand that players show proof of having done a specific raid. It is however, elitist to demand that they let you into the group because you're one of the very very few who can learn a raid solely from watching YouTube videos.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

> @nosleepdemon.1368 said:

> What a lot of nonsense. If there is any elitism to fix, then perhaps this player might suggest that the OP pull the stick out of their bottom in equal measure. There are many, many guilds out there more than happy to take new players on raids. The problem, is that some players would rather not bother, since they spend so much time trying to solo the forums instead.

 

Seriously? I've never seen them. I've pugged several raids, with some guilds, proven I'm good at what I'm doing with dps or tank/chrono, Time and again, I've said add me if you need someone and asked if they have open spots in their guild if they do regular raids. I've never heard back from anyone. Where are the plethora of friendly raid guilds?

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely.

>

> This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process.

 

sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems.

[Genesis.5169]

> @Seera.5916 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, being rank 7 in WoW and getting 2x legend in pvp proves absolutely nothing about your skill in Raids. I even gave you, more than once, the example of fractal 100 and fractal 100 CM, which is the EXACT same instance, only with different/altered mechanics. Yet you cannot prove how good you are in Fractal 100 CM, no matter how many times you finish Fractal 100. It means absolutely nothing.

> > >

> > > If such similar content means nothing, then it's obvious that being good in other games also means nothing. And there is nothing for Anet to do here.

> >

> > What about my Eternal title from vale, that doesn't count either? still not good? Doesn't translate to skill... - carried? This is beyond absurd at this point, and showcases that anet has a real problem on there hands, this is what every raider faces right here in joining a raid...

> >

> > they need to make raids easier or facilitate group entry in some way to make it so people do not feel the need to scrutinize players so much to the point of absurdity.

>

> It shows that you have skill with that raid and that given training in the other raid wings, you'll be a good raider in more than just that one wing.

>

> Some groups do not have the time to risk having to train someone who needs it explained in detail or has to see it actually happen to them when they raid. Unfortunately, no amount of AP, titles, DPS, gear, etc will let them know how you learn. There is nothing that can show others that you can learn things 100% by just watching YouTube videos. Most people can't. The YouTube videos will also not let you know what to do when something goes wrong. Training raids help with that. Because you're more likely to have something fail.

>

> It is not elitist for raiding groups to demand that players show proof of having done a specific raid. It is however, elitist to demand that they let you into the group because you're one of the very very few who can learn a raid solely from watching YouTube videos.

 

Thats my issue right there, Content in this game relative to it self is super normalized and easy, for example 100cm is harder this most raids in general u see some one with Archdesigner or LNHB you should respect there skill. Or respecting people with insane pvp titles spvp will always be 30x harder to do then scripted fights. The raiding community really thinks there content is so extreme relative to the game it self and other games that its mind blowing.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

This could all easily be alleviated by removing the boss timers. GW1 elite area's had no boss timers, and yes sometimes a run would take a long time but you would still complete it (sometimes not if people didn't know what they were doing)(good luck finishing Domain of Anguish with a pug group, but yet there were no timers), and the players who weren't as good would learn and be faster the next time, and there was no real incentive to kick them, because you still got it finished, and it setup a casual environment that was still highly competitive and skilled. The boss timer just makes you fail when someone isn't good and its gimmicky and causes people to scrutinize other players. Would be the simplest fix.

 

The boss timer also goes against there moto "play your way" which you can't do in raids at all.

[zombyturtle.5980]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely.

> >

> > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process.

>

> sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems.

 

You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @Shirlias.8104 said:

> >

> >

> >

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

> >

> > Well, wow PvE is mostly tryhard ( a matter or time mostly, though ofc like every other game you have to be efficient with your class ) since the top guilds do many attempts.

> >

> > GW2 legend is more like a joke due to the playerbase pool ( play the right class and spam games. Also previously with duoq was even easier ).

> > Don't even mention the stronghold season.

> >

> >

>

> I have Undefeated/Eternal title from Vale.. If i was carried I would of been one shotted and not gotten the title, but I didnt die and have the title, Or does that skill not translate either because its not ALL the raids in gw2.. Nothing convinces you guys... This is why people are complaining and need the raids to change, if someone who is skilled like me can have such a hard time, imagine how others who aren't as skill must fair

 

You got a title, and 1 achievement.

So?

Guess how many ppl managed to have that one?

 

I don't get your point at all.

I mean... no, really i don't know.

 

However, I was refering to what you said about wow and legend spvp, and explain ed how it works ( you can check wow now and see for every boss how many try the guild needed, and for spvp...Let us forget about that part ).

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @zombyturtle.5980 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely.

> > >

> > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process.

> >

> > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems.

>

> You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game.

 

oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @Shirlias.8104 said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > @Shirlias.8104 said:

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > Sorry you don't get in rank 7 in NA guild in wow if ur trash, u also don't get 2X legend in spvp if ur trash, and yet raiders are still skeptical about skill with feats I can easily prove but claim on some technicality that I might not be considered good in some universe, somewhere, this is exactly my point and the point of this thread.

> > >

> > > Well, wow PvE is mostly tryhard ( a matter or time mostly, though ofc like every other game you have to be efficient with your class ) since the top guilds do many attempts.

> > >

> > > GW2 legend is more like a joke due to the playerbase pool ( play the right class and spam games. Also previously with duoq was even easier ).

> > > Don't even mention the stronghold season.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I have Undefeated/Eternal title from Vale.. If i was carried I would of been one shotted and not gotten the title, but I didnt die and have the title, Or does that skill not translate either because its not ALL the raids in gw2.. Nothing convinces you guys... This is why people are complaining and need the raids to change, if someone who is skilled like me can have such a hard time, imagine how others who aren't as skill must fair

>

> You got a title, and 1 achievement.

> So?

> Guess how many ppl managed to have that one?

>

> I don't get your point at all.

> I mean... no, really i don't know.

>

> However, I was refering to what you said about wow and legend spvp, and explain ed how it works ( you can check wow now and see for every boss how many try the guild needed, and for spvp...Let us forget about that part ).

 

see no convincing you guys, its impossible - can't get into a raid because I must be lying, can't get into a raid because im arrogant, can't get into a raid to even show people I am good because of the above two problems. You think maybe it might be because of the level of scrutinization that is required to raid, and that anet should do something to reduce it? Since so many others have been complaining about this and not just me? Or is this just all me is the problem and raiding is 100% fine and nobody in gw2 has a problem with it.