Loosmaster.8263 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game. > > > > > > > > > > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style. > > > > > > I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me. > > > > > > Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all. > > > > Even if they implemented all 3 solutions, you would still be forced to group with noobs and have training runs for every run. Remove the ability to be elitist, be forced to play with the rest of the bad and inexperienced players. > > > > I didnt focus on any particular solution, just your suggestion to stop or reduce elitism. So please answer what you will do when you are grouped with 9 other players in PTV gear with condi weapons who have never stepped into a raid before. > > Well if there was no boss timer, it autogrouped me in with 9 noobs and the bosses were easier, I'd say we would def win eventually. If not I could easily auto join another group and outshine all the rest with a couple of simple clicks. *People recruiting for harder raids or helping there friends who have hard core raid groups would notice me.* > > No talking or elitism necessary. This part really says a lot about your true intentions to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Loosmaster.8263 said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > > > Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style. > > > > > > > > I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me. > > > > > > > > Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all. > > > > > > Even if they implemented all 3 solutions, you would still be forced to group with noobs and have training runs for every run. Remove the ability to be elitist, be forced to play with the rest of the bad and inexperienced players. > > > > > > I didnt focus on any particular solution, just your suggestion to stop or reduce elitism. So please answer what you will do when you are grouped with 9 other players in PTV gear with condi weapons who have never stepped into a raid before. > > > > Well if there was no boss timer, it autogrouped me in with 9 noobs and the bosses were easier, I'd say we would def win eventually. If not I could easily auto join another group and outshine all the rest with a couple of simple clicks. *People recruiting for harder raids or helping there friends who have hard core raid groups would notice me.* > > > > No talking or elitism necessary. > > This part really says a lot about your true intentions to me... What's your point? True intentions lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game. > > > > > > > > > > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style. > > > > > > I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me. > > > > > > Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all. > > > > Even if they implemented all 3 solutions, you would still be forced to group with noobs and have training runs for every run. Remove the ability to be elitist, be forced to play with the rest of the bad and inexperienced players. > > > > I didnt focus on any particular solution, just your suggestion to stop or reduce elitism. So please answer what you will do when you are grouped with 9 other players in PTV gear with condi weapons who have never stepped into a raid before. > > Well if there was no boss timer, it autogrouped me in with 9 noobs and the bosses were easier, I'd say we would def win eventually. If not I could easily auto join another group and outshine all the rest with a couple of simple clicks. People recruiting for harder raids or helping there friends who have hard core raid groups would notice me. > > No talking or elitism necessary. And people would still do the exact same thing today because they don't want to take 3 times as long to do the boss due to low DPS or wipes. ANet can not fix elitism. There will ALWAYS be a group that wants to do the content as fast as possible. Sometimes PUGs are able to do this. See most of the core world bosses - except Triple Trouble and Teq. Dungeons had it, Fractals had it, Raids have it. Map-wide meta events have it. It's just in open world, the elitists get blocked in map chat if they don't storm off due to not being able to control others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Seera.5916 said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > > > Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style. > > > > > > > > I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me. > > > > > > > > Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all. > > > > > > Even if they implemented all 3 solutions, you would still be forced to group with noobs and have training runs for every run. Remove the ability to be elitist, be forced to play with the rest of the bad and inexperienced players. > > > > > > I didnt focus on any particular solution, just your suggestion to stop or reduce elitism. So please answer what you will do when you are grouped with 9 other players in PTV gear with condi weapons who have never stepped into a raid before. > > > > Well if there was no boss timer, it autogrouped me in with 9 noobs and the bosses were easier, I'd say we would def win eventually. If not I could easily auto join another group and outshine all the rest with a couple of simple clicks. People recruiting for harder raids or helping there friends who have hard core raid groups would notice me. > > > > No talking or elitism necessary. > > And people would still do the exact same thing today because they don't want to take 3 times as long to do the boss due to low DPS or wipes. ANet can not fix elitism. There will ALWAYS be a group that wants to do the content as fast as possible. Sometimes PUGs are able to do this. See most of the core world bosses - except Triple Trouble and Teq. Dungeons had it, Fractals had it, Raids have it. Map-wide meta events have it. It's just in open world, the elitists get blocked in map chat if they don't storm off due to not being able to control others. They could do a lot to reduce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game of Bones.8975 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Like many have said before me, when you limit parties to certain numbers, someone will come up with a formula to fill the slots in the best way; X-tanks, Y-condi, and Z-healers. If you don't fit into that formula, you may not find a group that can complete the raid. Has anyone suggested a format similar to the Fractals? Levels and difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weo weo.6378 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Game of Bones.8975" said: > Like many have said before me, when you limit parties to certain numbers, someone will come up with a formula to fill the slots in the best way; X-tanks, Y-condi, and Z-healers. If you don't fit into that formula, you may not find a group that can complete the raid. > > Has anyone suggested a format similar to the Fractals? Levels and difficulty. In my experience, harder fractals like 99- 100 CM, often people would look for teams with Chrono mes + Healer druid and 3 competent DPS roles Other instance may just be chronotank, CPS and 3x dps for optimal 40 farming. I guess depends on the guild running it too. Most pugs I joined are very casual to what you play as long as you pull your weight. On the matter of raid joins though: Rather than forcing elitist/ casual crowd together, why not create some kind of mentor incentive for auto match and an experienced automatching system. What this could be is: To be eligible for mentor slots a person would need around specific 10 wing clears of that raid (or need particular achievement from the wing). Maybe something like 2 Mentors paired with 8 inexperienced members and all done voluntarily. A second Autojoin to be made for exclusively for people looking for experienced runs (account with x number of LI). I know finding specific roles like Chronotank/ CPS/ healer seem to be an issue with some pug raids but I believe something like this would at least remove some elements of toxicity from raids. Most new players/ inexperienced players are often highly intimidated by the fear of letting strangers down and being flamed for it. It's a shame in this current situation because I do believe there should be higher raid participation from the overall community. *EDIT* I however don't believe the raids themselves should have an easy mode to it or a casual mode to it. It defeats the purpose of it being a more hardcore incentive for people to learn and clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style. > > > > > > > > > > I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me. > > > > > > > > > > Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > > > Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all. > > > > > > > > Even if they implemented all 3 solutions, you would still be forced to group with noobs and have training runs for every run. Remove the ability to be elitist, be forced to play with the rest of the bad and inexperienced players. > > > > > > > > I didnt focus on any particular solution, just your suggestion to stop or reduce elitism. So please answer what you will do when you are grouped with 9 other players in PTV gear with condi weapons who have never stepped into a raid before. > > > > > > Well if there was no boss timer, it autogrouped me in with 9 noobs and the bosses were easier, I'd say we would def win eventually. If not I could easily auto join another group and outshine all the rest with a couple of simple clicks. People recruiting for harder raids or helping there friends who have hard core raid groups would notice me. > > > > > > No talking or elitism necessary. > > > > And people would still do the exact same thing today because they don't want to take 3 times as long to do the boss due to low DPS or wipes. ANet can not fix elitism. There will ALWAYS be a group that wants to do the content as fast as possible. Sometimes PUGs are able to do this. See most of the core world bosses - except Triple Trouble and Teq. Dungeons had it, Fractals had it, Raids have it. Map-wide meta events have it. It's just in open world, the elitists get blocked in map chat if they don't storm off due to not being able to control others. > > They could do a lot to reduce it. They can't do anything to reduce it. Because ANet can't change the personality types of players. Short of making raids open world and not instanced where the elites don't have any power, there's nothing they can do about the effects bad elitism has on the game. And open world raids already exist. They're called map metas and world bosses and temple events. And everyone already knows the problems associated with those. However, there is something YOU can do about the effects and how they affect you: 1. Take a deep breath, gain some patience, and do some training runs. Yes, you don't want to do training runs, but it is one way of getting to where you want to be. 2. Make your own groups that has rules to fit what you want out of the raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Seera.5916 said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style. > > > > > > > > > > > > I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all. > > > > > > > > > > Even if they implemented all 3 solutions, you would still be forced to group with noobs and have training runs for every run. Remove the ability to be elitist, be forced to play with the rest of the bad and inexperienced players. > > > > > > > > > > I didnt focus on any particular solution, just your suggestion to stop or reduce elitism. So please answer what you will do when you are grouped with 9 other players in PTV gear with condi weapons who have never stepped into a raid before. > > > > > > > > Well if there was no boss timer, it autogrouped me in with 9 noobs and the bosses were easier, I'd say we would def win eventually. If not I could easily auto join another group and outshine all the rest with a couple of simple clicks. People recruiting for harder raids or helping there friends who have hard core raid groups would notice me. > > > > > > > > No talking or elitism necessary. > > > > > > And people would still do the exact same thing today because they don't want to take 3 times as long to do the boss due to low DPS or wipes. ANet can not fix elitism. There will ALWAYS be a group that wants to do the content as fast as possible. Sometimes PUGs are able to do this. See most of the core world bosses - except Triple Trouble and Teq. Dungeons had it, Fractals had it, Raids have it. Map-wide meta events have it. It's just in open world, the elitists get blocked in map chat if they don't storm off due to not being able to control others. > > > > They could do a lot to reduce it. > > They can't do anything to reduce it. Because ANet can't change the personality types of players. Short of making raids open world and not instanced where the elites don't have any power, there's nothing they can do about the effects bad elitism has on the game. And open world raids already exist. They're called map metas and world bosses and temple events. And everyone already knows the problems associated with those. > > However, there is something YOU can do about the effects and how they affect you: > > 1. Take a deep breath, gain some patience, and do some training runs. Yes, you don't want to do training runs, but it is one way of getting to where you want to be. > 2. Make your own groups that has rules to fit what you want out of the raid. No I just assume not raid, and from the looks of it many others are in the same position as I am, until anet add's some supportive features for raiding i just assume raid in another mmo that does. Pretty hilarious is that the advice for a veteran highly skilled gamer is to, live with it, join some sort of raid thats on training wheels, adapt my behavior and pretend to be having tons of fun when im not and sit there and lose 100 raid attempts (or even better not get invited into any despite my skill level) due to others until i finally get what i want... No Thanks, especially when there are alternatives to this system already implemented in other mmo's. You would have a very valid point if every other mmo had no quality of life, alternative features to raiding, but they do, they have a plethora of them, and gw2 implements none of them, sorry im going to compare gw2 to these mmo's and suggest that they implement something to make it easier, and others will probably keep complaining about it as well. In addition your suggestions are just bandages that the community has come up with to address the difficult entry barrier into raiding. If they even had any options for raiding you wouldn't need training raids and I wouldn't need to form my own guild or raid groups to do this content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > yah your right, all of the new people getting into raids should just sit in LFG all day, just to be kicked out because we don't have enough LI, and they don't know who we are. Definitely not a problem there that A-net needs to address... They should just keep making raids with no options or support for players, just let them figure it out and if they don't just proclaim that the entire game mode is "not for them." Because playing psychological persuasion game is 99% of the skill involved in raiding, as opposed to actual gaming skills. And if we are skilful players in the game, but don't want to/aren't good at playing the psychological persuasion game then we should just put in 1000x more effort to forming our own raiding guild and vetting new players/leading raids then we ever had to compared to any other mmo on the market. > > Or even better, skilled players who simply cant persuade others verbally that they are good should have to slug it out in the trenches with other players who have no skill or no intent of winning only to get demoralized and give up, because there is no alternatives to raiding, no options and no convenience or quality of life improvements. So you either have friends and get lucky with other good players or the "content isn't for you" and also there is definitely no place to physically showcase your skill to anyone, its 100% verbal psychology when joining raids or kick before enter. > > But yah its definitely a me problem, not like the entire community has been shouting for alternatives or options to/for raiding for months or anything. This is the EXACT reason why I don't raid. Tried to raid, got stuck with incompetent players, didn't have fun, quit the game for over a year. Having to "prove myself" to get into the EASIEST RAIDING IVE EVER DONE IN A MMORPG is not fun at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @DeadlySynz.3471 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > You can't fix people. The only way to do so is to remove any uniqness between professions and basically make everyone play guardian. > > Well you actually can, it's just the methods to do so would never realistically be implemented. For game purposes such as in Gw2, take this for example > > Suppose you didn't want Player A to be a "elitist" and Anet had some means of defining what an "elitist" is as to not single out people. Anet then has a system in place to bring the heavy hammer of punishment down on the player to teach them a lessons. So Player A is an elitist, the first punishment is removing all their gold and anything of value from their account. Not only that, any gold acquired within the next 3 months is immediately removed from their account. Player A will obviously be visually upset, but as part of the punishment, it's simply a case of "too bad so sad, you don't like it, go find another game, we have your money, we don't care". If Player A infracts again, its a permanent ban from the game. > > So now Player A is left with a tough choice, do they: > > A) Change their attitude and tough out the next 3 months with no gold only to resume normal playing time again > B ) Infract again which forces them out of the game permanently on a ban losing complete access to the account. > C) Quit > > Any of the 3 scenarios is a win. You've either corrected the players attitude, or forced them out of the game. All are "win" scenarios. Obviously this won't happen lol, but most certainly, anyone's attitude can be adjust via the right means, or their behavior removed causing distress to others to be eliminated. It's not a win, because Anet would be sabotaging their own bottom line. Games have died over behavior like this, and in the end, its the publisher than ends up losing. Also this doesn't fix the person . This just creates a massive hugbox full of the same opinions/behavior. And if the internet has taught me anything, even they eat their own eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidBG.6194 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I don't know man, there are groups for training, the raiding den or whatever, even the "supreme" elitists SnowCrows advertise them for raid training. Maybe you should actually look around and try the content instead of looking on LFG all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @chronometria.3708 said: > The way the classes are built means that even good players suffer when they play raids - I mean, in the latest "recommended classes" list on reddit, they referred to the warrior build as "banner-slave", for example. There are people stuck in certain classes and horrible playstyles and they would dearly love to try or play another class but the raid mechanics and their guilds will not let them. Raids have become an exercise not in enjoyable, challenging gaming, but in soulless perfection, where your own friends will disown you if you are choosing fun over efficiency. This post assumes that efficiency isn't fun. Which is plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulf.3098 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Weo weo.6378" said: > In my experience, harder fractals like 99- 100 CM, often people would look for teams with Chrono mes + Healer druid and 3 competent DPS roles > Other instance may just be chronotank, CPS and 3x dps for optimal 40 farming. > > I guess depends on the guild running it too. Most pugs I joined are very casual to what you play as long as you pull your weight. > > > On the matter of raid joins though: > Rather than forcing elitist/ casual crowd together, why not create some kind of mentor incentive for auto match and an experienced automatching system. > > What this could be is: > > To be eligible for mentor slots a person would need around specific 10 wing clears of that raid (or need particular achievement from the wing). > Maybe something like 2 Mentors paired with 8 inexperienced members and all done voluntarily. > > A second Autojoin to be made for exclusively for people looking for experienced runs (account with x number of LI). > > I know finding specific roles like Chronotank/ CPS/ healer seem to be an issue with some pug raids but I believe something like this would at least remove some elements of toxicity from raids. Most new players/ inexperienced players are often highly intimidated by the fear of letting strangers down and being flamed for it. > > It's a shame in this current situation because I do believe there should be higher raid participation from the overall community. > > *EDIT* > I however don't believe the raids themselves should have an easy mode to it or a casual mode to it. It defeats the purpose of it being a more hardcore incentive for people to learn and clear. I run 100cm every night with a static and our comp is Chrono, Auramancer (Ele), Herald, Warrior and Firebrand. We clear it in about 15 minutes. Honestly the only thing super meta about 100cm is having a Chrono. Then people will come to the forums and cry about spending 7 hours on a boss and not getting the kill. Auto join for raiding in this game will simply not work unless you completely split the difficulty and add a no fail mechanic to the boss. WoW has 4 difficulties for their raids and only one of those difficulties has auto join. The difficulty that has auto join is so easy because the boss does little to no mechanics while also dealing next to no damage. You can basically afk through it and even if you do some how wipe you gain a stacking buff that increases your damage, health and healing output 5% per stack. 2 people can not carry raids and I already know after about 2-3 wipes with an autojoin feature people will just leave and hope to get into a group of better players. People already do this with the current LFG. On queueing for specific things like chrono, druid etc.. is basically asking for there to be a solidified meta which I really do not want to see. It is already bad enough we had to wait almost a year to finally see more variety with PoF release and the most recent warrior nerf. I really do not see why the way Raids current work need to be changed because some people do not want to put the effort into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Vulf.3098 said: > > @"Weo weo.6378" said: > > In my experience, harder fractals like 99- 100 CM, often people would look for teams with Chrono mes + Healer druid and 3 competent DPS roles > > Other instance may just be chronotank, CPS and 3x dps for optimal 40 farming. > > > > I guess depends on the guild running it too. Most pugs I joined are very casual to what you play as long as you pull your weight. > > > > > > On the matter of raid joins though: > > Rather than forcing elitist/ casual crowd together, why not create some kind of mentor incentive for auto match and an experienced automatching system. > > > > What this could be is: > > > > To be eligible for mentor slots a person would need around specific 10 wing clears of that raid (or need particular achievement from the wing). > > Maybe something like 2 Mentors paired with 8 inexperienced members and all done voluntarily. > > > > A second Autojoin to be made for exclusively for people looking for experienced runs (account with x number of LI). > > > > I know finding specific roles like Chronotank/ CPS/ healer seem to be an issue with some pug raids but I believe something like this would at least remove some elements of toxicity from raids. Most new players/ inexperienced players are often highly intimidated by the fear of letting strangers down and being flamed for it. > > > > It's a shame in this current situation because I do believe there should be higher raid participation from the overall community. > > > > *EDIT* > > I however don't believe the raids themselves should have an easy mode to it or a casual mode to it. It defeats the purpose of it being a more hardcore incentive for people to learn and clear. > > I run 100cm every night with a static and our comp is Chrono, Auramancer (Ele), Herald, Warrior and Firebrand. We clear it in about 15 minutes. Honestly the only thing super meta about 100cm is having a Chrono. > > Then people will come to the forums and cry about spending 7 hours on a boss and not getting the kill. Auto join for raiding in this game will simply not work unless you completely split the difficulty and add a no fail mechanic to the boss. WoW has 4 difficulties for their raids and only one of those difficulties has auto join. The difficulty that has auto join is so easy because the boss does little to no mechanics while also dealing next to no damage. You can basically afk through it and even if you do some how wipe you gain a stacking buff that increases your damage, health and healing output 5% per stack. > > 2 people can not carry raids and I already know after about 2-3 wipes with an autojoin feature people will just leave and hope to get into a group of better players. People already do this with the current LFG. On queueing for specific things like chrono, druid etc.. is basically asking for there to be a solidified meta which I really do not want to see. It is already bad enough we had to wait almost a year to finally see more variety with PoF release and the most recent warrior nerf. > > I really do not see why the way Raids current work need to be changed because some people do not want to put the effort into it. > > I don't understand why people who think that "putting the effort" into forming a group is part of the raid experience/content. Thats like a technicality not content or game play. At no point does my skill come into play as far as "putting the effort" into getting a good group. I cant even get into a group to demonstrate skill. Just because everyone else has to do it, I don't know why others expect everyone to have to do this, instead they should be asking for a change, nobody should be subjected to this ideally. This is the least enjoyable "aspect" of raiding and you guys are acting like its a highlighted feature and part of the "raid difficulty" and "enjoyment" and elitism that is raid content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game of Bones.8975 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 If the only answer is "Suck it up, Buttercup" or " I did it, so why can't everyone else?" Then the question needs to be rephrased. The end result people want to see: more people in raids. People may want to raid to gain Legendary armor. Someone else may want the higher tier weapons/skins/whatever. Still a third group wants more people to raid so there are more people active at different times throughout the day. But in order for each of these things to happen, one thing has to happen first: players have to join their first raid party! What stops you from raiding could be the players' attitudes toward those who have never been on a raid party before. I've run into that category. They say they are there to teach you how to do something then berate you for not knowing what to do exactly when the time comes, aggroing the enemy in the wrong direction, or a couple other things I can't print here. Then there's the Catch-22 of not having experience, but you can't get experience until you join a training party (see above). I solo 99% of the time so I don't have to deal with the 0.1% of the players who have no patience for my character/build/weapon choices. Even on these boards people are quick to tear down a suggestion as opposed to offer creative criticism; "Well, that will never work because ...." or "We've heard this a thousand times before, get over it and move on." And these are the same people who are playing the game, "teaching" others how to be "good" players? I don't think so. My high horse is tired, I'll get down now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for being an example of the mindset of the average raider and what they think of new players trying to join there raid, this has showcased the problem quite nicely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This "problem" of yours has a very easy solution. New players join training runs and shouldn't expect to be taken otherwise. Or join a guild/static, you might make some friends in the process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sorry not joining a training raid, not going to lower myself to that ( i tried 1-2 of them and it was ridiculous so no more), i just assume not do the raids even though im grossly over competent and qualified to do them. Anet needs to do something to facilitate grouping and reduce player scrutinization, this feels like trying to do raid content in 2001 where there are no options for grouping or difficulty alternatives, there is a reason all modern mmos have abandoned this outdated model of raiding except for gw2 it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the most elitist person ive seen in a long time. Maybe fix your own attitude before asking anet to change the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oh so my attitude will make me better at raids? How? Im a good player regardless of how I behave. OHHH so your saying that part of raiding is the psychological mind convincing game that anet needs to address? - in fact its 99% of raiding, no personal skill required because you cant even raid w/out it, you just be nice or behave a certain way and its smooth sailing (even being nice doesn't help either 99% of the time to get me in a raid group - tried it. I tried being nice or not talking and neither of those work). Wow they should advertise that being nice is the key to winning at raids, And here i thought raiding was hard content, but apparently player skill doesn't come into play only behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah. You never answer what you are going to do when anet hypothetically 'fixes' raids so that they arent exclusionary and you are forced to group with players with bad builds and 0 experience non stop. You will basically be doing a training run every single time. Since you refuse to 'lower yourself' to that now and are far too skilled for it, you better fix your attitude fast and get used to carrying noobs or fail runs. Your own personal elitism isnt going to work in your new raid style. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never said i knew what the solution was, your pointing out one solution I suggested and taking it to some finality. They might need to put in multiple solutions, like lowered raid difficult, auto grouping and removing boss timers. All I know now is that I'm not doing raids as they are and it's not because of the raids are too hard or the content isn't for me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player skill should always trump social interactions especially when rewards are based on player skills and not on some social interactions or behaving in a certain way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Franky I would prefer raiding and not talking at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if they implemented all 3 solutions, you would still be forced to group with noobs and have training runs for every run. Remove the ability to be elitist, be forced to play with the rest of the bad and inexperienced players. > > > > > > > > > > > > I didnt focus on any particular solution, just your suggestion to stop or reduce elitism. So please answer what you will do when you are grouped with 9 other players in PTV gear with condi weapons who have never stepped into a raid before. > > > > > > > > > > Well if there was no boss timer, it autogrouped me in with 9 noobs and the bosses were easier, I'd say we would def win eventually. If not I could easily auto join another group and outshine all the rest with a couple of simple clicks. People recruiting for harder raids or helping there friends who have hard core raid groups would notice me. > > > > > > > > > > No talking or elitism necessary. > > > > > > > > And people would still do the exact same thing today because they don't want to take 3 times as long to do the boss due to low DPS or wipes. ANet can not fix elitism. There will ALWAYS be a group that wants to do the content as fast as possible. Sometimes PUGs are able to do this. See most of the core world bosses - except Triple Trouble and Teq. Dungeons had it, Fractals had it, Raids have it. Map-wide meta events have it. It's just in open world, the elitists get blocked in map chat if they don't storm off due to not being able to control others. > > > > > > They could do a lot to reduce it. > > > > They can't do anything to reduce it. Because ANet can't change the personality types of players. Short of making raids open world and not instanced where the elites don't have any power, there's nothing they can do about the effects bad elitism has on the game. And open world raids already exist. They're called map metas and world bosses and temple events. And everyone already knows the problems associated with those. > > > > However, there is something YOU can do about the effects and how they affect you: > > > > 1. Take a deep breath, gain some patience, and do some training runs. Yes, you don't want to do training runs, but it is one way of getting to where you want to be. > > 2. Make your own groups that has rules to fit what you want out of the raid. > > No I just assume not raid, and from the looks of it many others are in the same position as I am, until anet add's some supportive features for raiding i just assume raid in another mmo that does. > > Pretty hilarious is that the advice for a veteran highly skilled gamer is to, live with it, join some sort of raid thats on training wheels, adapt my behavior and pretend to be having tons of fun when im not and sit there and lose 100 raid attempts (or even better not get invited into any despite my skill level) due to others until i finally get what i want... No Thanks, especially when there are alternatives to this system already implemented in other mmo's. > > You would have a very valid point if every other mmo had no quality of life, alternative features to raiding, but they do, they have a plethora of them, and gw2 implements none of them, sorry im going to compare gw2 to these mmo's and suggest that they implement something to make it easier, and others will probably keep complaining about it as well. > > In addition your suggestions are just bandages that the community has come up with to address the difficult entry barrier into raiding. If they even had any options for raiding you wouldn't need training raids and I wouldn't need to form my own guild or raid groups to do this content. Could ANet do things to make raiding more accessible to more players? Yes. But elitism isn't one of those things that they can fix. Just remember that any time ANet tries to make open world harder or personal story harder. And we've seen evidence that the masses revolt in numbers if you make either of those harder. So given the current situation that ANet is in: they can't make raiding more accessible because if they even think about making things harder, players ask for nerfs to the content and they can't get rid of elitism; you're only options are to deal with it and do training runs, deal with it and form your own groups, or sit and not raid because other players don't take peoples' words anymore due to liars. The one you've apparently chosen, gets you nowhere towards your goal. Which means 1 of 2 things: 1. You don't want to be raiding with the elites that much. 2. You expect everyone to bend to your desires and hate when you have to actually work towards anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > I don't understand why people who think that "putting the effort" into forming a group is part of the raid experience/content. Thats like a technicality not content or game play. At no point does my skill come into play as far as "putting the effort" into getting a good group. I'm sorry but you are just plain incorrect. Firstly socializing is a skill, like it or not. And making a group requires that skill. If you have 2 groups accepting the same roles, but one comm is a bumbling fool, while the other is deliberate, and communicates well. Which commander would you trust? Forming a group IS putting in effort because it's putting yourself out there. Just like a guy walking up and talking to a pretty girl is putting effort, compared to the guy that just stands there hoping for a girl to talk to him. > I cant even get into a group to demonstrate skill. Because your attitude and socializing skills are probably preventing you from being able to find a group. I see this problem all the time with people. They want everyone to come down to their level, and that's just not gonna happen. Even most of the elitist you claim are out there understand this, and make exceptions accordingly. >Just because everyone else has to do it, I don't know why others expect everyone to have to do this, That's EXACTLY why everyone has to do it. To prove themselves. You are basically asking for the removal of any sort of standard. Which never, ever ends well. See the history of communism for more. > instead they should be asking for a change, nobody should be subjected to this ideally. Should, woulda, coulda. There is your problem. You keep rambling on about how you feel things SHOULD be rather than dealing with them as they are, and applying yourself. >This is the least enjoyable "aspect" of raiding and you guys are acting like its a highlighted feature and part of the "raid difficulty" and "enjoyment" and elitism that is raid content. It's not elitism, its called vetting. It may be the 'least enjoyable' to some, but it is neccessary for those of us who value our time. Obviously you don't value raids or raiding enough to even try. So why are you here? Every second you spend on this forums complaining could be some time finding runs. And on NA its a friday, which is the day the super casuals start to come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thessassin.5376 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 these posts are always the same. raiders are too elitist, raids are too hard, if i dont have LI how will i join a group? the answer is always so simple, make your own group. 10% of gw2 players raid while 90% wish they could but the 10% stop them? really? nobody can stop you from making your own non elitist, non meta group. go make a squad and post it on lfg this second. that won't happen, the people complaining about elitism don't want to learn to raid, they want the elitist players to carry them through the raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Thessassin.5376 said: > these posts are always the same. raiders are too elitist, raids are too hard, if i dont have LI how will i join a group? > > the answer is always so simple, make your own group. 10% of gw2 players raid while 90% wish they could but the 10% stop them? really? nobody can stop you from making your own non elitist, non meta group. go make a squad and post it on lfg this second. > > that won't happen, the people complaining about elitism don't want to learn to raid, they want the elitist players to carry them through the raids. And there are raiding groups designed to carry others. You just have to be willing to part with gold in order to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 OR OR OR you could join a nice guild and do raids with them. If you want to PUGLYFE then sadly you'll have to deal with the nature of PUGs. This is not exclusive to gw2 and will **never change**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Ohoni.6057 said: > The only way to fix the elitism would be to tweak to gameplay to allow non-elites to complete it. So long as "bad players" can prevent a raid attempt from succeeding, groups intending to clear the missions will attempt to cull "bad members" from their ranks. Bad players should not prevent a raid attempt from succeeding, they should, at worst, slow the process down. Which basically means, dummb everything down to the lowest common denominator, while sacrificing the playerbase that the content was originally made for, just so everyone gets their participation trophy. Nevermind the fact that you got the entirety of PVE for you working this way, you want ALL of it! This is why gaming is garbage these days. -Signed, non-raid player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @FrostDraco.8306 said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > I don't understand why people who think that "putting the effort" into forming a group is part of the raid experience/content. Thats like a technicality not content or game play. At no point does my skill come into play as far as "putting the effort" into getting a good group. > > I'm sorry but you are just plain incorrect. Firstly socializing is a skill, like it or not. And making a group requires that skill. If you have 2 groups accepting the same roles, but one comm is a bumbling fool, while the other is deliberate, and communicates well. Which commander would you trust? > > Forming a group IS putting in effort because it's putting yourself out there. Just like a guy walking up and talking to a pretty girl is putting effort, compared to the guy that just stands there hoping for a girl to talk to him. > > > I cant even get into a group to demonstrate skill. > > Because your attitude and socializing skills are probably preventing you from being able to find a group. I see this problem all the time with people. They want everyone to come down to their level, and that's just not gonna happen. Even most of the elitist you claim are out there understand this, and make exceptions accordingly. > > >Just because everyone else has to do it, I don't know why others expect everyone to have to do this, > > That's EXACTLY why everyone has to do it. To prove themselves. You are basically asking for the removal of any sort of standard. Which never, ever ends well. See the history of communism for more. > > > instead they should be asking for a change, nobody should be subjected to this ideally. > > Should, woulda, coulda. There is your problem. You keep rambling on about how you feel things SHOULD be rather than dealing with them as they are, and applying yourself. > > >This is the least enjoyable "aspect" of raiding and you guys are acting like its a highlighted feature and part of the "raid difficulty" and "enjoyment" and elitism that is raid content. > > It's not elitism, its called vetting. It may be the 'least enjoyable' to some, but it is neccessary for those of us who value our time. Obviously you don't value raids or raiding enough to even try. So why are you here? Every second you spend on this forums complaining could be some time finding runs. And on NA its a friday, which is the day the super casuals start to come out. > yup socialization is a skill, one in which the cost is far too high compared to the rewards and experiencing the content, so ill go to other mmo's that dont really require it. thanks. Too bad though despite my attitude im probably better than 99% of the playerbase skill wise. I also like the conceding attitude of the people on here, its like oh its broken but we wont fix it and we shouldnt complain, they wont change it anyways, just give up. Ok fine i give up - i dont care now. Its like none of you want to improve the game in any way, I don't get it. I only put this amount of effort into real life endeavors its not worth it for an online game. and i very much disagree, forming a raid group is not raiding, nor does it require player skill, which is raiding. Nor has it ever been a fun process, its more of logistical chore that people put up with, in order to get to the fun part. Im not going to bother the chore is too costly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: >so ill go to other mmo's that dont really require it. thanks. Good luck finding a mmo where you don't need to communicate at all in raids / hardest pve content. >Too bad though despite my attitude im probably better than 99% of the playerbase skill wise. Laughed at this due to how generic and stereotypical it sounded. Is there any way in which you can prove this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted November 25, 2017 Author Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Razor.6392 said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > >so ill go to other mmo's that dont really require it. thanks. > Good luck finding a mmo where you don't need to communicate at all in raids / hardest pve content. > > >Too bad though despite my attitude im probably better than 99% of the playerbase skill wise. > Laughed at this due to how generic and stereotypical it sounded. Is there any way in which you can prove this? read my posts above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Just like how there were players asking for similar “fixes” years ago for dungeons as they are now for raids, it’s unnecessary. Players have the right to play how they want to. If they were to create their own group with whatever requirements, they are completely within their right to do so. It’d be hypocritical to try to remove that right because some players prefer them to play their way. **The easiest solution is to simply create your own group.**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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