Obtena.7952 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Aetatis.5418 said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > If there is a 'reversion', it won't be a rollback. It will likely be an adjustment of some numbers. The concept of Reaper is an improvement; what is left is minor adjustments. > > > > > > i really wanted to write something like this: > > > > > > "OK GUYS LISTEN, obtena here said it is an improvement soooo we are all scrubs who do not know how to use our main class, we look foward to see some of vids of you that teach us how to play the reaper, that would be great. Thank you to giving us such amazing feedback i am about to take a screen and make it as my desktop to remember your words as best as often as possible.... " > > > > > > well, but i am quite a polite guy so i will just say what i really think, do you realize you are one in one million considering it an improvement? > > > > > > almost the totality of the main necro players consider it a total destruction of the class to the point it is unplayable... > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm not one in a million .. you have no idea how many people like or dislike this change. Again, you're inventing things and have a level of sensationalism that fools no one. Anet had a goal to change reaper and they did what they said they wanted to do. **You need to bring yourself around the way Anet thinks** if you want to make a difference here. > > i need a way to look into someones head ... because someone that never communicates with me - well its hard to tell what those people intend to do really. Your statement is actually disingenuous here ... Anet DID communicate why they made this change to us in the patch notes. The barriers to understand this change do not EXIST, so don't try to make it sound like we are in some fog where Anet makes changes that no one understands. Even if they didn't, these aren't big leaps of logic to understand why such things are done, including the fact there is history in the game; it's not like Anet is wildly unpredictable. Many of their changes are more aligned to the conceptual side and less so what most of us consider balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Morbius.1759 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Communicating after the fact is not worth a bloody thing, and frankly that's just announcing the changes describing their rational. Communication is a two way street for everyone it seems except Anet. Doing so beforehand to allow for rebuttal is far more effective long term and a much better use of resources, they just don't get that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetatis.5418 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said: > Communicating after the fact is not worth a bloody thing, and frankly that's just announcing the changes describing their rational. Communication is a two way street for everyone it seems except Anet. Doing so beforehand to allow for rebuttal is far more effective long term and a much better use of resources, they just don't get that at all. thank you. i was trying hard to put it that short, simple and straight. glad you were faster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said: > Communicating after the fact is not worth a bloody thing, and frankly that's just announcing the changes describing their rational. Communication is a two way street for everyone it seems except Anet. Doing so beforehand to allow for rebuttal is far more effective long term and a much better use of resources, they just don't get that at all. And to be frank, that's all we are ever going to get. There is no 'consult' phase with players because players have no idea if an idea is going work or not until they play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetatis.5418 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > > @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said: > > Communicating after the fact is not worth a bloody thing, and frankly that's just announcing the changes describing their rational. Communication is a two way street for everyone it seems except Anet. Doing so beforehand to allow for rebuttal is far more effective long term and a much better use of resources, they just don't get that at all. > > And to be frank, that's all we are ever going to get. There is no 'consult' phase with players because players have no idea if an idea is going work or not until they play it. it works well in other games like eve online. nobody is replacing a developer. and most players have no clue. but they get a response for their questions and feedback and explanations beforehand and the community thoughts are being considered actively ( i mean... beta tests on the test-server are being held regularly and updated and looked at... because the way players play the changes shows how well it is going to be, because all kind of players will use it. hardcore, casual, brilliant people, not so brilliant people). if something backfires completely, they are even capable of reversing a change entirely. (sure its not the holy grail... i mean e.g. "fozzy sov" is one of the most discussed and complained things in eve and the progress on that topic is incredible slow !!!). but you are probably very right, when you confirm "communication after the fact is all we are ever going to get". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 No it doesn't ... That's simply placating people. Until you get to play the change, no one has an informed opinion about it and even then, some people will simply be subjective (this thread change is a great example). Consulting with players does not avoid Anet making changes that some people won't like, just like it doesn't do that in Eve Online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurrado.2346 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > > @Aetatis.5418 said: > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > If there is a 'reversion', it won't be a rollback. It will likely be an adjustment of some numbers. The concept of Reaper is an improvement; what is left is minor adjustments. > > > > > > > > i really wanted to write something like this: > > > > > > > > "OK GUYS LISTEN, obtena here said it is an improvement soooo we are all scrubs who do not know how to use our main class, we look foward to see some of vids of you that teach us how to play the reaper, that would be great. Thank you to giving us such amazing feedback i am about to take a screen and make it as my desktop to remember your words as best as often as possible.... " > > > > > > > > well, but i am quite a polite guy so i will just say what i really think, do you realize you are one in one million considering it an improvement? > > > > > > > > almost the totality of the main necro players consider it a total destruction of the class to the point it is unplayable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm not one in a million .. you have no idea how many people like or dislike this change. Again, you're inventing things and have a level of sensationalism that fools no one. Anet had a goal to change reaper and they did what they said they wanted to do. **You need to bring yourself around the way Anet thinks** if you want to make a difference here. > > > > i need a way to look into someones head ... because someone that never communicates with me - well its hard to tell what those people intend to do really. > > Your statement is actually disingenuous here ... Anet DID communicate why they made this change to us in the patch notes. The barriers to understand this change do not EXIST, so don't try to make it sound like we are in some fog where Anet makes changes that no one understands. Even if they didn't, these aren't big leaps of logic to understand why such things are done, including the fact there is history in the game; it's not like Anet is wildly unpredictable. Many of their changes are more aligned to the conceptual side and less so what most of us consider balancing. > > > Please enlighten me on Anets communication. There was absolutely no reason to nerf shroud degeneration. We have poor defensive mechanisms all around and still do meh damage in comparison to almost every other class on the game and you think Anet wanted to make us even easier to kill? Can't do the extra damage when you are slaughtered in team fights since Necros are typically the first and easiest targets to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Morbius.1759 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > And to be frank, that's all we are ever going to get. There is no 'consult' phase with players because players have no idea if an idea is going work or not until they play it. Really, so you think Devs are all knowing and cannot possibly benefit from player knowledge, well I'm certain there are many developers out there that would strongly disagree with you as well as players for that matter. I can also guarantee that the player base have tried every myriad of combinations of build, gear, accessories and rotations as well as in all game play types and i highly doubt the dev's can say the same. As far as players not knowing for certain all the effects a change has i would say this is incredibly true as far as the dev's are concerned as well so as i said the best thing that could happen is that they do consult with the main player base in game for feedback or the next best option which is feedback from a test sever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 To be honest, I bet there is tons of players out there that have great ideas. That still doesn't justify some sort of consult phase in game development. The problem is that it's way more work than it's worth to glean those good ideas from all the garbage ideas they would get too. Besides, the consultative process with players still wouldn't avoid Anet making changes that some people like and some people don't, so I don't really think it gets them any farther ahead to bother with even considering it. There are lots of approaches to development and they all have pros/cons. What Anet does works just as well .. they change things, see how it goes based on game data, and tweak where necessary. THAT'S where players 'consult'. I can't stress this enough ... if you think the change is a massive failure, PROVE it by playing the game and giving Anet the data they need to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @hurrado.2346 said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > @Aetatis.5418 said: > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > If there is a 'reversion', it won't be a rollback. It will likely be an adjustment of some numbers. The concept of Reaper is an improvement; what is left is minor adjustments. > > > > > > > > > > i really wanted to write something like this: > > > > > > > > > > "OK GUYS LISTEN, obtena here said it is an improvement soooo we are all scrubs who do not know how to use our main class, we look foward to see some of vids of you that teach us how to play the reaper, that would be great. Thank you to giving us such amazing feedback i am about to take a screen and make it as my desktop to remember your words as best as often as possible.... " > > > > > > > > > > well, but i am quite a polite guy so i will just say what i really think, do you realize you are one in one million considering it an improvement? > > > > > > > > > > almost the totality of the main necro players consider it a total destruction of the class to the point it is unplayable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm not one in a million .. you have no idea how many people like or dislike this change. Again, you're inventing things and have a level of sensationalism that fools no one. Anet had a goal to change reaper and they did what they said they wanted to do. **You need to bring yourself around the way Anet thinks** if you want to make a difference here. > > > > > > i need a way to look into someones head ... because someone that never communicates with me - well its hard to tell what those people intend to do really. > > > > Your statement is actually disingenuous here ... Anet DID communicate why they made this change to us in the patch notes. The barriers to understand this change do not EXIST, so don't try to make it sound like we are in some fog where Anet makes changes that no one understands. Even if they didn't, these aren't big leaps of logic to understand why such things are done, including the fact there is history in the game; it's not like Anet is wildly unpredictable. Many of their changes are more aligned to the conceptual side and less so what most of us consider balancing. > > > > > > > > Please enlighten me on Anets communication. There was absolutely no reason to nerf shroud degeneration. We have poor defensive mechanisms all around and still do meh damage in comparison to almost every other class on the game and you think Anet wanted to make us even easier to kill? Can't do the extra damage when you are slaughtered in team fights since Necros are typically the first and easiest targets to kill. Anet doesn't sit around and 'reason' themselves into believing their changes are the right thing to do; it's not a question of morality; their justification is simply to adhere to the ideas of what they want the class to be; the idea they have to justify their changes to players is completely nonsensical. They simply say they want something to work a certain way and they change it to do that. Reaper was a supposed to be an elite spec, but it didn't feel like it; it played too much like Core Necro and Death Shroud. Anet fixed that and gave us an updated spec that not only plays different (the whole point of the elite spec), it also gives us more damage in PVE ... something players have wanted for a long time. You might not think so, but being conceptually correct is a REALLY important thing, not just in GW2 either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurrado.2346 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > > @hurrado.2346 said: > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > @Aetatis.5418 said: > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > If there is a 'reversion', it won't be a rollback. It will likely be an adjustment of some numbers. The concept of Reaper is an improvement; what is left is minor adjustments. > > > > > > > > > > > > i really wanted to write something like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > "OK GUYS LISTEN, obtena here said it is an improvement soooo we are all scrubs who do not know how to use our main class, we look foward to see some of vids of you that teach us how to play the reaper, that would be great. Thank you to giving us such amazing feedback i am about to take a screen and make it as my desktop to remember your words as best as often as possible.... " > > > > > > > > > > > > well, but i am quite a polite guy so i will just say what i really think, do you realize you are one in one million considering it an improvement? > > > > > > > > > > > > almost the totality of the main necro players consider it a total destruction of the class to the point it is unplayable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm not one in a million .. you have no idea how many people like or dislike this change. Again, you're inventing things and have a level of sensationalism that fools no one. Anet had a goal to change reaper and they did what they said they wanted to do. **You need to bring yourself around the way Anet thinks** if you want to make a difference here. > > > > > > > > i need a way to look into someones head ... because someone that never communicates with me - well its hard to tell what those people intend to do really. > > > > > > Your statement is actually disingenuous here ... Anet DID communicate why they made this change to us in the patch notes. The barriers to understand this change do not EXIST, so don't try to make it sound like we are in some fog where Anet makes changes that no one understands. Even if they didn't, these aren't big leaps of logic to understand why such things are done, including the fact there is history in the game; it's not like Anet is wildly unpredictable. Many of their changes are more aligned to the conceptual side and less so what most of us consider balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please enlighten me on Anets communication. There was absolutely no reason to nerf shroud degeneration. We have poor defensive mechanisms all around and still do meh damage in comparison to almost every other class on the game and you think Anet wanted to make us even easier to kill? Can't do the extra damage when you are slaughtered in team fights since Necros are typically the first and easiest targets to kill. > > Anet doesn't sit around and 'reason' themselves into believing their changes are the right thing to do; it's not a question of morality; their justification is simply to adhere to the ideas of what they want the class to be; the idea they have to justify their changes to players is completely nonsensical. They simply say they want something to work a certain way and they change it to do that. Reaper was a supposed to be an elite spec, but it didn't feel like it; it played too much like Core Necro and Death Shroud. Anet fixed that and gave us an updated spec that not only plays different (the whole point of the elite spec), it also gives us more damage in PVE ... something players have wanted for a long time. > > You might not think so, but being conceptually correct is a REALLY important thing, not just in GW2 either. No, they made an elite spec into an even more garbage tier spec than it already was. Poor mobility, poor defense, very little stability, average damage, now has even worse defense, and arguably mobility since your shroud will instantly disappear in pvp. I don't get how you can defend Anets decision, because they have weakened an already sub par class. Your arguments don't even make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzurag.7506 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @hurrado.2346 said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > @hurrado.2346 said: > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > @Aetatis.5418 said: > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > > If there is a 'reversion', it won't be a rollback. It will likely be an adjustment of some numbers. The concept of Reaper is an improvement; what is left is minor adjustments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i really wanted to write something like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "OK GUYS LISTEN, obtena here said it is an improvement soooo we are all scrubs who do not know how to use our main class, we look foward to see some of vids of you that teach us how to play the reaper, that would be great. Thank you to giving us such amazing feedback i am about to take a screen and make it as my desktop to remember your words as best as often as possible.... " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well, but i am quite a polite guy so i will just say what i really think, do you realize you are one in one million considering it an improvement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > almost the totality of the main necro players consider it a total destruction of the class to the point it is unplayable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm not one in a million .. you have no idea how many people like or dislike this change. Again, you're inventing things and have a level of sensationalism that fools no one. Anet had a goal to change reaper and they did what they said they wanted to do. **You need to bring yourself around the way Anet thinks** if you want to make a difference here. > > > > > > > > > > i need a way to look into someones head ... because someone that never communicates with me - well its hard to tell what those people intend to do really. > > > > > > > > Your statement is actually disingenuous here ... Anet DID communicate why they made this change to us in the patch notes. The barriers to understand this change do not EXIST, so don't try to make it sound like we are in some fog where Anet makes changes that no one understands. Even if they didn't, these aren't big leaps of logic to understand why such things are done, including the fact there is history in the game; it's not like Anet is wildly unpredictable. Many of their changes are more aligned to the conceptual side and less so what most of us consider balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please enlighten me on Anets communication. There was absolutely no reason to nerf shroud degeneration. We have poor defensive mechanisms all around and still do meh damage in comparison to almost every other class on the game and you think Anet wanted to make us even easier to kill? Can't do the extra damage when you are slaughtered in team fights since Necros are typically the first and easiest targets to kill. > > > > Anet doesn't sit around and 'reason' themselves into believing their changes are the right thing to do; it's not a question of morality; their justification is simply to adhere to the ideas of what they want the class to be; the idea they have to justify their changes to players is completely nonsensical. They simply say they want something to work a certain way and they change it to do that. Reaper was a supposed to be an elite spec, but it didn't feel like it; it played too much like Core Necro and Death Shroud. Anet fixed that and gave us an updated spec that not only plays different (the whole point of the elite spec), it also gives us more damage in PVE ... something players have wanted for a long time. > > > > You might not think so, but being conceptually correct is a REALLY important thing, not just in GW2 either. > > No, they made an elite spec into an even more garbage tier spec than it already was. Poor mobility, poor defense, very little stability, average damage, now has even worse defense, and arguably mobility since your shroud will instantly disappear in pvp. I don't get how you can defend Anets decision, because they have weakened an already sub par class. > > Your arguments don't even make sense. From a certain point of view, his arguments and Anet´s decisions make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmau.9781 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > No, they made an elite spec into an even more garbage tier spec than it already was. Poor mobility, poor defense, very little stability, average damage, now has even worse defense, and arguably mobility since your shroud will instantly disappear in pvp. I don't get how you can defend Anets decision, because they have weakened an already sub par class. > > Your arguments don't even make sense. i was really upset the past days, i am trying to be more polite possible and i thank you and all the others to share my same feeling about the Reaper and Anet and to spread them on forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 A slice of nostalgia: The Horror - lol they called it early. The reaper’s thematic roots come from classic movie monsters and survival horror games. We pulled elements from slow but seemingly unstoppable horror monsters like Pyramid Head and Jason Voorhees to try to craft the feeling of a relentless pursuer. Slow- tick. Seemingly unstoppable- nahh. Imagine Jason needing to gain lifeforce at our rate before he clamored up to the happless tween who then activated block invuln and had a laugh before they ran around to pound him with a soggy sock. Its interesting to see where they wanted to go and their progression to that. Good thing it states 'elements'. Sorta paves the way to preferring Jasons dress sense and witty banter but holding off on his super strength and durabilty. -highpitchedscream- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmageddonAsh.6430 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @dceptaconroy.7928 said: > A slice of nostalgia: > The Horror - lol they called it early. > > The reaper’s thematic roots come from classic movie monsters and survival horror games. We pulled elements from slow but seemingly unstoppable horror monsters like Pyramid Head and Jason Voorhees to try to craft the feeling of a relentless pursuer. > Slow- tick. Seemingly unstoppable- nahh. Imagine Jason needing to gain lifeforce at our rate before he clamored up to the happless tween who then activated block invuln and had a laugh before they ran around to pound him with a soggy sock. Its interesting to see where they wanted to go and their progression to that. Good thing it states 'elements'. Sorta paves the way to preferring Jasons dress sense and witty banter but holding off on his super strength and durabilty. > -highpitchedscream- > > And boy did they fail with that 100million % Ive not seen unstoppable monsters being stopped so easily by shooting them from range or just constantly knocking them down lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @hurrado.2346 said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > @hurrado.2346 said: > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > @Aetatis.5418 said: > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > > > > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > > > > > > If there is a 'reversion', it won't be a rollback. It will likely be an adjustment of some numbers. The concept of Reaper is an improvement; what is left is minor adjustments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i really wanted to write something like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "OK GUYS LISTEN, obtena here said it is an improvement soooo we are all scrubs who do not know how to use our main class, we look foward to see some of vids of you that teach us how to play the reaper, that would be great. Thank you to giving us such amazing feedback i am about to take a screen and make it as my desktop to remember your words as best as often as possible.... " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well, but i am quite a polite guy so i will just say what i really think, do you realize you are one in one million considering it an improvement? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > almost the totality of the main necro players consider it a total destruction of the class to the point it is unplayable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm not one in a million .. you have no idea how many people like or dislike this change. Again, you're inventing things and have a level of sensationalism that fools no one. Anet had a goal to change reaper and they did what they said they wanted to do. **You need to bring yourself around the way Anet thinks** if you want to make a difference here. > > > > > > > > > > i need a way to look into someones head ... because someone that never communicates with me - well its hard to tell what those people intend to do really. > > > > > > > > Your statement is actually disingenuous here ... Anet DID communicate why they made this change to us in the patch notes. The barriers to understand this change do not EXIST, so don't try to make it sound like we are in some fog where Anet makes changes that no one understands. Even if they didn't, these aren't big leaps of logic to understand why such things are done, including the fact there is history in the game; it's not like Anet is wildly unpredictable. Many of their changes are more aligned to the conceptual side and less so what most of us consider balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please enlighten me on Anets communication. There was absolutely no reason to nerf shroud degeneration. We have poor defensive mechanisms all around and still do meh damage in comparison to almost every other class on the game and you think Anet wanted to make us even easier to kill? Can't do the extra damage when you are slaughtered in team fights since Necros are typically the first and easiest targets to kill. > > > > Anet doesn't sit around and 'reason' themselves into believing their changes are the right thing to do; it's not a question of morality; their justification is simply to adhere to the ideas of what they want the class to be; the idea they have to justify their changes to players is completely nonsensical. They simply say they want something to work a certain way and they change it to do that. Reaper was a supposed to be an elite spec, but it didn't feel like it; it played too much like Core Necro and Death Shroud. Anet fixed that and gave us an updated spec that not only plays different (the whole point of the elite spec), it also gives us more damage in PVE ... something players have wanted for a long time. > > > > You might not think so, but being conceptually correct is a REALLY important thing, not just in GW2 either. > > No, they made an elite spec into an even more garbage tier spec than it already was. Poor mobility, poor defense, very little stability, average damage, now has even worse defense, and arguably mobility since your shroud will instantly disappear in pvp. I don't get how you can defend Anets decision, because they have weakened an already sub par class. > > Your arguments don't even make sense. You make this sound like it's my argument ... but it's not. It's Anet's process and what I'm telling you is inline with their POV. The problem is that you are looking at this as a performance problem. Look again at what Anet said they aimed to do ... it has nothing to do with performance. They addressed what they saw as a conceptual issue. No one should associate performance with the concept. Ignoring this focus on the change and you won't have any chance to make a dent in making a compelling argument to fix it. I've had this argument so many times, yet it's so obvious ... Anet cares greatly about the class concepts they develop in the game; I would even go as far to say at the EXPENSE of performance. Now, the guy that just posted the little bit of history about the feel of Reaper supposing to be an unrelenting pursuer ... HE'S GOT THE RIGHT IDEA! His argument is from a CONCEPTUAL angle, not a performance one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Morbius.1759 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > To be honest, I bet there is tons of players out there that have great ideas. That still doesn't justify some sort of consult phase in game development. The problem is that it's way more work than it's worth to glean those good ideas from all the garbage ideas they would get too. Besides, the consultative process with players still wouldn't avoid Anet making changes that some people like and some people don't, so I don't really think it gets them any farther ahead to bother with even considering it. There are lots of approaches to development and they all have pros/cons. What Anet does works just as well .. they change things, see how it goes based on game data, and tweak where necessary. THAT'S where players 'consult'. I can't stress this enough ... if you think the change is a massive failure, PROVE it by playing the game and giving Anet the data they need to fix it. You want proof they need help, take a look at this video and then follow the thread on Reddit which has a number of Weavers crying about barely scraping 50k DPS; This just shows how completely out of whack things are and we just are told to sit by and watch painfully as every useful area we have is decimated. You think this is purely a conceptual problem and I'm telling you it's tunnel vision. To be honest after watching this i think every dev on that team should bow their heads in shame! Actually I can't be bothered to argue this anymore because frankly it all falls on deaf ears. I will play until i'm disgusted by it all then move on because regardless of all the solid information that is out there we are destined to remain in this funk until someone cares enough to pull us out and I'm done holding my breath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 I don't need proof they need help ... I'm not saying things aren't out of wack. I'm simply saying that a consulting process won't give you a different result; every player can't be pleased all the time for every change, regardless of the change or how they got there. Every endpoint is going to have people that like and dislike the changes ... it's just different people in each bucket depending on the change. This change is proof ... some people like, some don't. It works for some, for others it doesn't. That doesn't make it wrong or right; Game changes aren't an issue of morality or correctness. Again, if you want to ensure the best changes for the game, you aren't going to do that on the forum; you need to play the game. You can argue the process for change is wrong but it's the process we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Morbius.1759 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > Again, if you want to ensure the best changes for the game, you aren't going to do that on the forum; you need to play the game. You can argue the process for change is wrong but it's the process we have. So where exactly do I argue for a process change if not on this forum? Currently we have no open / uncensored AMA with devs, no test server, no opportunity to argue change other than here which is what I'm saying needs to change. I've said all I care to say on this subject it is clear you will never agree and frankly that's fine. I'm saying their process is broken and they need help to fix it and until they are open to changing that process this is all we have. I've said all I care to say on this and i'm walking away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 What makes u think there's gonna be a blance patch Tuesday? Living world gets added and that's it... Btw Reaper's auto hits can easily hit for 7-8k in WvW. Thats 50% Hp from some Classes. Think there damage is in a good state right now. Please don't orientate at Raids etc, cause this is just a nonesene Content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > What makes u think there's gonna be a blance patch Tuesday? Living world gets added and that's it... > > Btw Reaper's auto hits can easily hit for 7-8k in WvW. Thats 50% Hp from some Classes. Think there damage is in a good state right now. Please don't orientate at Raids etc, cause this is just a nonesene Content. The same goes for a lot of other power spec in zerk gear... What's exactly your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said: > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > Again, if you want to ensure the best changes for the game, you aren't going to do that on the forum; you need to play the game. You can argue the process for change is wrong but it's the process we have. > > So where exactly do I argue for a process change if not on this forum? Currently we have no open / uncensored AMA with devs, no test server, no opportunity to argue change other than here which is what I'm saying needs to change. I've said all I care to say on this subject it is clear you will never agree and frankly that's fine. I'm saying their process is broken and they need help to fix it and until they are open to changing that process this is all we have. I've said all I care to say on this and i'm walking away. > Why would you argue for a development process change in a class subforum? Is that a serious question? Do you not think other players are not happy with the classes they play too? I mean, if you are serious about engaging Anet in having more player collaboration in game development, do YOU think that the Necro forum is the appropriate place to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmageddonAsh.6430 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @FaboBabo.3581 said: > Btw Reaper's auto hits can easily hit for 7-8k in WvW. Thats 50% Hp from some Classes. Think there damage is in a good state right now. Please don't orientate at Raids etc, cause this is just a nonesene Content. The problem ISN'T the damage that can be done. The problem is LIVING long enough to be able to do that damage. Reaper was meant to take themes from monsters like Jason Vorhees and Pyramid Head. Unstoppable killing machines. The problem is Reaper (and base Necro and Scourge) are VERY easy to kill. Very easy to stop. Very easy to kite. Very easy to lock down. A class could have 100k DPS. It means NOTHING if they dont get the chance to do that damage because they have melted to the huge amounts of range damage. Because they have been locked down and/or CC spammed until dead because there is nothing they can do about it. Anyone who is ranged. They will beat a Reaper/Scourge most of the time beause the huge burst damage that they will do before the Necro can eevn get in range to be able to do any damage, will have been forced to use their heal. Likely forced into using their VERY limited defense skills to just TRY and get into range and they will fail most of the time. No point running either because they wont be able to escape most classes. They MIGHT if they get a lucky use of Wurm or sand Portal onto a cliff or something.At Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Wandering around the Crystal Desert and Heart of Maguma in a power reaper, I thought it was still playable for open world but a number of shroud-focused traits need buffing. Arenanet may not revert the shroud decay, I do not expect them to because they seemed to make a point of it, so they might be reviewing shroud traits. The lack of updates to Death Magic, in particular Unholy Sanctuary, is suspicious and suggests a more extensive update of that line may be coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueanimus.4085 Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 > @Obtena.7952 said: > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > @Obtena.7952 said: > > > If there is a 'reversion', it won't be a rollback. It will likely be an adjustment of some numbers. The concept of Reaper is an improvement; what is left is minor adjustments. > > > > i really wanted to write something like this: > > > > "OK GUYS LISTEN, obtena here said it is an improvement soooo we are all scrubs who do not know how to use our main class, we look foward to see some of vids of you that teach us how to play the reaper, that would be great. Thank you to giving us such amazing feedback i am about to take a screen and make it as my desktop to remember your words as best as often as possible.... " > > > > well, but i am quite a polite guy so i will just say what i really think, do you realize you are one in one million considering it an improvement? > > > > almost the totality of the main necro players consider it a total destruction of the class to the point it is unplayable... > > > > > > No, I'm not one in a million .. you have no idea how many people like or dislike this change. Again, you're inventing things and have a level of sensationalism that fools no one. Anet had a goal to change reaper and they did what they said they wanted to do. You need to bring yourself around the way Anet thinks if you want to make a difference here. I think the main problem with the way the nerf was put into place is that they wanted and designed the reaper spec to be the tank/melee class but now with the 67% shroud drain, even with the improved damage on shroud skills (while you can maintain it) it is just simply unplayable. You go into reaper shroud, jump in and in one or two hits, your out of shroud and either dead or running for your live with no stab, no condi clear etc. Why make a class spec melee if there is no point to it? Shroud was fine.. it was working as intended.. it was how the class spec was SUPPOSED to be played.. now its is not even viable in PVE, let alone any competitive mode like pvp or wvw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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