Chronophantasma baseline?

[BrokenGlass.9356]

Chronophantasma should be baseline. That trait should be updated to, (shatters apply only to clones, phantasms are briefly dazed.)

 

This allows for builds that hybridize across mesmer mechanics. (where as currently you have to choose which mechanic to sacrifice.)

[Tseison.4659]

Well I actually don’t mind this trait and would prefer it to stay as it is. However, I think they should move **Illusionary Reversion** into **Chronophantasma**. Especially since Mirage is great for rapid illusion generation and is good hand to hand with shattering.

 

With this being done, they can pave away **Seize the Moment** and **Illusionary Reversion** and change them into something else that maybe affects more of our Wells?

 

Just a thought.

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Tseison.4659 said:

> Well I actually don’t mind this trait and would prefer it to stay as it is. However, I think they should move **Illusionary Reversion** into **Chronophantasma**. Especially since Mirage is great for rapid illusion generation and is good hand to hand with shattering.

>

> With this being done, they can pave away **Seize the Moment** and **Illusionary Reversion** and change them into something else that maybe affects more of our Wells?

>

> Just a thought.

 

Mirage has nothing to do with Chrono. Chrono traits are strong enough, swapping them to core mesmer would drastically buff core, while chrono would need something instead - > double power creep for chrono. Nah let's keep it this way.

[bart.3687]

I'd like to see phantasms not shatter (only clones would shatter, so phants would probably need limited duration or something), but even more importantly: Illusions always switching their target to your target (or at least some no-CD button to retarget the illusions). It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies/you change your target.

It's basically a QoL fix for mesmers, it wouldn't suddenly make us OP, so I seriously can't understand why Anet keeps refusing to make it happen. It would make the game MUCH more entertaining to me.

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @bart.3687 said:

> I'd like to see phantasms not shatter (only clones would shatter, so phants would probably need limited duration or something), but even more importantly: Illusions always switching their target to your target (or at least some no-CD button to retarget the illusions). It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies/you change your target.

> It's basically a QoL fix for mesmers, it wouldn't suddenly make us OP, so I seriously can't understand why Anet keeps refusing to make it happen. It would make the game MUCH more entertaining to me.

 

 

Serious balancing Problem ; Permanent illusions would require every skill to be balanced arround this fact, then again in 66% of the Game Illusions won't live long.

Tbh i love the concept of creating - shattering period. I'd never go for a full Phantasm - Playstyle, cause it's really boring for me . Spam phantasm - go afk. Shatters +Illusions are playing with decissions -> Burst/Utility = Shatter , sustained damage = Illusions

[Tseison.4659]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @Tseison.4659 said:

> > Well I actually don’t mind this trait and would prefer it to stay as it is. However, I think they should move **Illusionary Reversion** into **Chronophantasma**. Especially since Mirage is great for rapid illusion generation and is good hand to hand with shattering.

> >

> > With this being done, they can pave away **Seize the Moment** and **Illusionary Reversion** and change them into something else that maybe affects more of our Wells?

> >

> > Just a thought.

>

> Mirage has nothing to do with Chrono. Chrono traits are strong enough, swapping them to core mesmer would drastically buff core, while chrono would need something instead - > double power creep for chrono. Nah let's keep it this way.

 

Ummm, what are you talking about? I was just saying for the sake of mentioning how Mirage spawns Illusions fast with Self-Deception and it’s great if you like to shatter....

 

And I mentioned the swapping/merging of said bolded traits since not many people run the others so why not have them changed.... >.>

[BrokenGlass.9356]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @bart.3687 said:

> > I'd like to see phantasms not shatter (only clones would shatter, so phants would probably need limited duration or something), but even more importantly: Illusions always switching their target to your target (or at least some no-CD button to retarget the illusions). It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies/you change your target.

> > It's basically a QoL fix for mesmers, it wouldn't suddenly make us OP, so I seriously can't understand why Anet keeps refusing to make it happen. It would make the game MUCH more entertaining to me.

>

>

> Serious balancing Problem ; Permanent illusions would require every skill to be balanced arround this fact, then again in 66% of the Game Illusions won't live long.

> Tbh i love the concept of creating - shattering period. I'd never go for a full Phantasm - Playstyle, cause it's really boring for me . Spam phantasm - go afk. Shatters +Illusions are playing with decissions -> Burst/Utility = Shatter , sustained damage = Illusions

 

This strikes me that the ammo mechanic fixes this issue.

 

Let's take a phantasmal duelist for example.

 

Summon it, then the skill flips to the phantasm's attack skill with ammo 3. (you cannot activate this skill, as it is automatically set to auto-cast)

Once the phantasm is out of charges, it shatters itself, with a 'lesser' version of whatever shatter fits the weapon's theme.

 

 

With my suggested changes to making chronophantasma baseline, this allows base mesmer, and mirage to auto-resummon shattered phantasms.(with the same amount of ammo pre-shatter)

 

While a chronomancer who has traited chronophantasma will have thier shatter effects totally ignore the phantasms and let the run thier course.

 

This change doesn't really make power levels too high, it's about making mesmer's core mechanic work with less sacrifice.

[bart.3687]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @bart.3687 said:

> > I'd like to see phantasms not shatter (only clones would shatter, so phants would probably need limited duration or something), but even more importantly: Illusions always switching their target to your target (or at least some no-CD button to retarget the illusions). It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies/you change your target.

> > It's basically a QoL fix for mesmers, it wouldn't suddenly make us OP, so I seriously can't understand why Anet keeps refusing to make it happen. It would make the game MUCH more entertaining to me.

>

>

> Serious balancing Problem ; Permanent illusions would require every skill to be balanced arround this fact, then again in 66% of the Game Illusions won't live long.

> Tbh i love the concept of creating - shattering period. I'd never go for a full Phantasm - Playstyle, cause it's really boring for me . Spam phantasm - go afk. Shatters +Illusions are playing with decissions -> Burst/Utility = Shatter , sustained damage = Illusions

 

What permanent illusions? My suggestion was to make phantasms unable to be shattered, but with a limited duration. Only clones would be used for shatters.

Illusions wouldn't be permanent. They'd simply always switch targets whenever you do, but they would still die out of combat or when you have no target selected for say 2 secs.

I don't really see any serious balancing problems but a few trait changes tbh.

 

 

[trooper.2650]

I like the idea to have a trait that can let you shatter clones and not phantasms. But it has to be in one of the core trees, so both specializations could take advantage of it, if they want to.

 

@"bart.3687"

When target dies illusions must die too because according to what mesmer is/does (a caster that plays tricks with your head), they are in the enemy's mind, so they can't live after he is dead.

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @bart.3687 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > @bart.3687 said:

> > > I'd like to see phantasms not shatter (only clones would shatter, so phants would probably need limited duration or something), but even more importantly: Illusions always switching their target to your target (or at least some no-CD button to retarget the illusions). It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies/you change your target.

> > > It's basically a QoL fix for mesmers, it wouldn't suddenly make us OP, so I seriously can't understand why Anet keeps refusing to make it happen. It would make the game MUCH more entertaining to me.

> >

> >

> > Serious balancing Problem ; Permanent illusions would require every skill to be balanced arround this fact, then again in 66% of the Game Illusions won't live long.

> > Tbh i love the concept of creating - shattering period. I'd never go for a full Phantasm - Playstyle, cause it's really boring for me . Spam phantasm - go afk. Shatters +Illusions are playing with decissions -> Burst/Utility = Shatter , sustained damage = Illusions

>

> What permanent illusions? My suggestion was to make phantasms unable to be shattered, but with a limited duration. Only clones would be used for shatters.

> Illusions wouldn't be permanent. They'd simply always switch targets whenever you do, but they would still die out of combat or when you have no target selected for say 2 secs.

> I don't really see any serious balancing problems but a few trait changes tbh.

>

>

 

"It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies." I took this as a statement. If ur not going for perma Illusions then yeah maybe.

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Tseison.4659 said:

> However, I think they should move **Illusionary Reversion** into **Chronophantasma**. Especially since Mirage is great for rapid illusion generation and is good hand to hand with shattering.

 

Oh, u mean give Core Mesmer a combination of Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma, so Mirage can use it? I actually thaught u wanted to write Chrono instead of Mirage and it was just a mistake...well then...

 

....Sure, give em Reaper's Shroud too.

[bart.3687]

> @trooper.2650 said:

> @"bart.3687"

> When target dies illusions must die too because according to what mesmer is/does (a caster that plays tricks with your head), they are in the enemy's mind, so they can't live after he is dead.

 

Then why do shatters strike multiple foes and why are other people able to see the illusions if they are in one's mind? D:

 

 

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @bart.3687 said:

> > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > > @bart.3687 said:

> > > > I'd like to see phantasms not shatter (only clones would shatter, so phants would probably need limited duration or something), but even more importantly: Illusions always switching their target to your target (or at least some no-CD button to retarget the illusions). It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies/you change your target.

> > > > It's basically a QoL fix for mesmers, it wouldn't suddenly make us OP, so I seriously can't understand why Anet keeps refusing to make it happen. It would make the game MUCH more entertaining to me.

> > >

> > >

> > > Serious balancing Problem ; Permanent illusions would require every skill to be balanced arround this fact, then again in 66% of the Game Illusions won't live long.

> > > Tbh i love the concept of creating - shattering period. I'd never go for a full Phantasm - Playstyle, cause it's really boring for me . Spam phantasm - go afk. Shatters +Illusions are playing with decissions -> Burst/Utility = Shatter , sustained damage = Illusions

> >

> > What permanent illusions? My suggestion was to make phantasms unable to be shattered, but with a limited duration. Only clones would be used for shatters.

> > Illusions wouldn't be permanent. They'd simply always switch targets whenever you do, but they would still die out of combat or when you have no target selected for say 2 secs.

> > I don't really see any serious balancing problems but a few trait changes tbh.

> >

> >

>

> "It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies." I took this as a statement. If ur not going for perma Illusions then yeah maybe.

 

Yeah, seems like you misunderstood. What I meant (on a example): you are fighting 2 mobs -> you summon illusions on one of them -> it dies -> you target the 2nd one -> previously summoned illusions target the 2nd target too -> combat ends -> illusions disappear.

 

 

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @Tseison.4659 said:

> > However, I think they should move **Illusionary Reversion** into **Chronophantasma**. Especially since Mirage is great for rapid illusion generation and is good hand to hand with shattering.

>

> Oh, u mean give Core Mesmer a combination of Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma, so Mirage can use it? I actually thaught u wanted to write Chrono instead of Mirage and it was just a mistake...well then...

>

> ....Sure, give em Reaper's Shroud too.

 

Nope it's not what he meant. He even wrote a 2nd comment to further explain his thought.

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @bart.3687 said:

> > @trooper.2650 said:

> > @"bart.3687"

> > When target dies illusions must die too because according to what mesmer is/does (a caster that plays tricks with your head), they are in the enemy's mind, so they can't live after he is dead.

>

> Then why do shatters strike multiple foes and why are other people able to see the illusions if they are in one's mind? D:

>

>

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > @bart.3687 said:

> > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > > > @bart.3687 said:

> > > > > I'd like to see phantasms not shatter (only clones would shatter, so phants would probably need limited duration or something), but even more importantly: Illusions always switching their target to your target (or at least some no-CD button to retarget the illusions). It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies/you change your target.

> > > > > It's basically a QoL fix for mesmers, it wouldn't suddenly make us OP, so I seriously can't understand why Anet keeps refusing to make it happen. It would make the game MUCH more entertaining to me.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Serious balancing Problem ; Permanent illusions would require every skill to be balanced arround this fact, then again in 66% of the Game Illusions won't live long.

> > > > Tbh i love the concept of creating - shattering period. I'd never go for a full Phantasm - Playstyle, cause it's really boring for me . Spam phantasm - go afk. Shatters +Illusions are playing with decissions -> Burst/Utility = Shatter , sustained damage = Illusions

> > >

> > > What permanent illusions? My suggestion was to make phantasms unable to be shattered, but with a limited duration. Only clones would be used for shatters.

> > > Illusions wouldn't be permanent. They'd simply always switch targets whenever you do, but they would still die out of combat or when you have no target selected for say 2 secs.

> > > I don't really see any serious balancing problems but a few trait changes tbh.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > "It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies." I took this as a statement. If ur not going for perma Illusions then yeah maybe.

>

> Yeah, seems like you misunderstood. What I meant (on a example): you are fighting 2 mobs -> you summon illusions on one of them -> it dies -> you target the 2nd one -> previously summoned illusions target the 2nd target too -> combat ends -> illusions disappear.

>

>

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > @Tseison.4659 said:

> > > However, I think they should move **Illusionary Reversion** into **Chronophantasma**. Especially since Mirage is great for rapid illusion generation and is good hand to hand with shattering.

> >

> > Oh, u mean give Core Mesmer a combination of Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma, so Mirage can use it? I actually thaught u wanted to write Chrono instead of Mirage and it was just a mistake...well then...

> >

> > ....Sure, give em Reaper's Shroud too.

>

> Nope it's not what he meant. He even wrote a 2nd comment to further explain his thought.

 

In his second comment he writes about self deception, which i can understand, but read his first comment again ;

"However, I think they should move **Illusionary Reversion** into **Chronophantasma**. Especially since Mirage is great for rapid illusion generation and is good hand to hand with shattering. "

 

"Especially" refers Mirage to Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma, and again self-deception was never mentioned in his first comment ;

 

Well I actually don’t mind this trait[Chronophantasma-reference to OP] and would prefer it to stay as it is. However, I think they should move Illusionary Reversion into Chronophantasma. Especially since Mirage is great for rapid illusion generation and is good hand to hand with shattering.

 

With this being done, they can pave away Seize the Moment and Illusionary Reversion and change them into something else that maybe affects more of our Wells?

 

Just a thought.

 

 

Edit ; Did he meant ; Well I actually don’t mind this trait[Chronophantasma-reference to OP] and would prefer it to stay as it is. However, I think they should move Illusionary Reversion into SELF DECEPTION. Especially since Mirage is great for rapid illusion generation and is good hand to hand with shattering.

 

Because he wrote ; Chronophantasma to STAY at it is. And then said merge illusionary revesion into CHRONOPHANTASM. Basically a brain fart - when u want to write "B", but u still have "A" in mind.

[Cantatus.4065]

> @bart.3687 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > @bart.3687 said:

> > > I'd like to see phantasms not shatter (only clones would shatter, so phants would probably need limited duration or something), but even more importantly: Illusions always switching their target to your target (or at least some no-CD button to retarget the illusions). It's extremely annoying when you are forced to resummon them over and over when your target dies/you change your target.

> > > It's basically a QoL fix for mesmers, it wouldn't suddenly make us OP, so I seriously can't understand why Anet keeps refusing to make it happen. It would make the game MUCH more entertaining to me.

> >

> >

> > Serious balancing Problem ; Permanent illusions would require every skill to be balanced arround this fact, then again in 66% of the Game Illusions won't live long.

> > Tbh i love the concept of creating - shattering period. I'd never go for a full Phantasm - Playstyle, cause it's really boring for me . Spam phantasm - go afk. Shatters +Illusions are playing with decissions -> Burst/Utility = Shatter , sustained damage = Illusions

>

> What permanent illusions? My suggestion was to make phantasms unable to be shattered, but with a limited duration. Only clones would be used for shatters.

> Illusions wouldn't be permanent. They'd simply always switch targets whenever you do, but they would still die out of combat or when you have no target selected for say 2 secs.

> I don't really see any serious balancing problems but a few trait changes tbh.

>

>

 

I really wish they would've added something like this for mirage at the very least. It seems like mirage was intended to be a more clone based spec, but phantasms are too much of our damage to give them up in favor of clones/shatters. The only reason that's not the case with the current mirage meta is because of the axe ambush hitting twice, and even then the build completely ignores shatters. Depending on how that's fixed, the phantasm build could become top dps again.

 

So, do something like: MIrage's phantasms last 8 seconds (or enough time to attack twice or something like that) and will switch to another target if their current one dies within that time. Perhaps make it so only one phantasm can be active at a time Then a trait could be added to have them turn into mirrors or clones when they disappear, or one that doesn't destroy them with shatters (though they still do the effect). And then, to make mirrors more useful, have it be that picking up a mirror knocks a few seconds off the refresh of phantasm generating skills.

[Tseison.4659]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> Edit ; Did he meant ; Well I actually don’t mind this trait[Chronophantasma-reference to OP] and would prefer it to stay as it is. However, I think they should move Illusionary Reversion into SELF DECEPTION. Especially since Mirage is great for rapid illusion generation and is good hand to hand with shattering.

> Because he wrote ; Chronophantasma to STAY at it is. And then said merge illusionary revesion into CHRONOPHANTASM. Basically a brain fart - when u want to write "B", but u still have "A" in mind.

 

*sigh*... Firstly I was stating that I wouldn't like **Chronophantasma** changed since I like how it is already. The reason why I mentioned **MIRAGE** was because OP wanted it to be baseline which I understand but since we got the Mirage and how they can rapidly generate clones with **Self Deception** then there wouldn't be a need and I don't think ANET would make it baseline since there could be factors like: constant 3 illusion refreshes, mirror images would probably not be picked up since we'll always have illusions up and rewritten from our weapons and other possibilities. Then it likely wouldn't bode well for others but again, who knows...

 

Now secondly going to what I was stating about the Chrono traits: **Illusionary Reversion** into **Chronophantasma**, I figured it'd be a cool idea since Chronophantasma would affect phantasms AND clones too and then they can turn Illusionary Reversion into something else that can be supportive, affect our wells, our damage or whatever. I said this also to **Seize The Moment** since myself and i'm sure many others _NEVER_ trait into it since **Chronophantasma** and **Lost Time** are too good options to pass up.

 

They could make **Lost Time** act like **Bountiful Disillusionment** so that the quickness can also be shared with nearby allies. But if that doesn't sound good either then as I stated above, they could change Lost time into something that can be supportive, affect our wells, our damage or whatever.

[OriOri.8724]

Disclaimer: I want to see chronophantasma go baseline to core mesmer.

 

However, lets start by looking at why this might be a problem.

1 - Its pure powercreep. Not only is it adding functionality baseline, its adding powerful functionality baseline along with opening up a GM trait slot in chronomancer line, which is already a strong line, for a new trait.

2 - Mesmers already have lots of ways to generate illusions in general, and can build for ways to get phantasms out sorta quickly.

3 - Strictly speaking, its not required functionality for mesmer, and I'm generally against things going baseline unless they are required functionality (with 1 caveat)

4 - With it going baseline, it would probably be heavily nerfed, leading it to be almost useless, or even hampering us (since we would be forced to live with it)

 

That said, I believe that it needs to go baseline for balance reasons. Fact is, phantasms now have to be balanced around the assumption that you can shatter your phantasms and have them be instantly resummoned to start attacking again after the daze is over. Whether its their attacks or the summon skills CDs, they have to be balanced around this assumption, and I believe its holding the class back due to the rather poor nature of mesmer's class mechanic overall. Plus, it helps with the inherent handicap that shattering is to our sustained DPS due to it shattering the main source of our DPS. So I believe that chronophantasma should go baseline to core mesmer, with tweaks of course.