squallaus.8321 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @Unknown.3976 said: > > @"Mamma il Dio.2074" said: > > I see a lot of developers here xD come on a month ago it didn't even exist and now seems a disaster, you can play many other classes. Furthermore if there are bugs/mistakes they'll fix them, give them time.. no need to be so harsh for some numbers, it's a game.. And to be honest i dont see how a class with such a simple rotation doing insane dmg can be fun.. but it's my point of view xD > > Yes, Mirage is a disaster (at least for PvE mode) becuz it's supposed to bring viable clone builds to the forefront, instead, we are still stuck with phantasm builds for grp content. PvE mes have been relying heavily on phantasms since gw2's inception, is it too much for mes players to ask for a competitive non-phantasm build? > > And I play all classes, retaliation DH, renegade, burnzerker, condi soulbeast and DD all have simple relatively simple rotations with high dmg output. Do those need nerfing? Yes nerf all those as well please along with ranger's rapid fire hitting the same target multiple times or elementalist's meteor shower hitting the same target multiple times. Those are clearly bugs. The same skill simply cannot be allowed to hit the same target more than once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I went back to the dune-cloak + shatter build myself. Infinite Horizons is something that should've been baseline, primarily because clone ambush skills just aren't all that good. The axe bug changed that temporarily, but prior to then there was little reason to take IH other than to look cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josa.5067 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I really hope they buff the axe ambush back up a little. I was actually having fun on my mesmer for a while. The phantasm build isn't mirage, it's just regular old mesmer, with no dodge roll. I have played mesmer for 5000 hours, and playing the same old builds and playstyles is getting really stale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeshoutslive.4163 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Can someone explain to me what exactly happened with the axes; what they should do, did, and don't do now? I'm an open world achievement-; fashion-player, and Mesmer only for 5 years at that and I can't find the cause for my damage being lower, now. I still stack about 40 or so confusion stacks onto an enemy with Mirror Images -> Illusionary Ambush -> Axes of Symmetry -> Ambush -> Ambush -> Cry of Frustration. What am I missing? Where does the lower output come from? I feel it, but I don't understand the mechanics leading there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @lifeshoutslive.4163 said: > Can someone explain to me what exactly happened with the axes; what they should do, did, and don't do now? > I'm an open world achievement-; fashion-player, and Mesmer only for 5 years at that and I can't find the cause for my damage being lower, now. I still stack about 40 or so confusion stacks onto an enemy with Mirror Images -> Illusionary Ambush -> Axes of Symmetry -> Ambush -> Ambush -> Cry of Frustration. > What am I missing? Where does the lower output come from? I feel it, but I don't understand the mechanics leading there. Well read the Post. It has been outlined several times. Short version Player axe ambush hits twice instead of 4 times. Clones ambushes SHOULD hit twice instead of 4 times. Clones ambushes ARE sometimes hitting zero times. (2 times refers to two axes) So you CAN loose 4 confu ( +4 possible bleed) per illusion per ambush now. You do loose 2physical damage portions and 4 stacks of confu for the Player ambush. Pre nerf/fix mirage could HOLD 70-80 stacks confu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 So now we just need every other dps spec to be nerfed back down to about 30k and everything will be alright. Source: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-may-balance-patch/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @apharma.3741 said: > So now we just need every other dps spec to be nerfed back down to about 30k and everything will be alright. > > Source: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-may-balance-patch/ No they need to buff Mirage back up, traits, ambushes, damage the whole lot. I don't understand people like you who want to actively make the game worse for everybody else. What have you actually achieved now that you have made the game worse for a bunch of people with the Mirage nerf? Does it make you feel better? Did me going around finally doing story achievements on my Mesmer make your life worse in any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @Levetty.1279 said: > > @apharma.3741 said: > > So now we just need every other dps spec to be nerfed back down to about 30k and everything will be alright. > > > > Source: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-may-balance-patch/ > > No they need to buff Mirage back up, traits, ambushes, damage the whole lot. > > I don't understand people like you who want to actively make the game worse for everybody else. What have you actually achieved now that you have made the game worse for a bunch of people with the Mirage nerf? Does it make you feel better? Did me going around finally doing story achievements on my Mesmer make your life worse in any way? Um I’m against the power creep of raids, currently all dps classes are doing too much damage, how does my comment about wanting them all brought down relate to making the game worse for you unless you needed the creep to achieve what many were doing pre PoF. Look at current benchmarks and compare them to the first benchmarks done, nearly everyone is doing 7k more and hovering around the 37k mark, that’s a 20% increase and we lost GotL buff. This isn’t healthy for the game as it makes older content obsolete, just look at how dungeons are fairing in this power creeped environment where once you had to pay attention to mechanics they never show up as everything dies too quick. If all builds did around 30k with maybe condi engy on a perfect rotation doing more then mesmer (power or condi) is in a much better spot and content retains some challenge. Are you really for this continued power creep because that is exactly what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josa.5067 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @apharma.3741 said: > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > So now we just need every other dps spec to be nerfed back down to about 30k and everything will be alright. > > > > > > Source: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-may-balance-patch/ > > > > No they need to buff Mirage back up, traits, ambushes, damage the whole lot. > > > > I don't understand people like you who want to actively make the game worse for everybody else. What have you actually achieved now that you have made the game worse for a bunch of people with the Mirage nerf? Does it make you feel better? Did me going around finally doing story achievements on my Mesmer make your life worse in any way? > > Um I’m against the power creep of raids, currently all dps classes are doing too much damage, how does my comment about wanting them all brought down relate to making the game worse for you unless you needed the creep to achieve what many were doing pre PoF. > > Look at current benchmarks and compare them to the first benchmarks done, nearly everyone is doing 7k more and hovering around the 37k mark, that’s a 20% increase and we lost GotL buff. This isn’t healthy for the game as it makes older content obsolete, just look at how dungeons are fairing in this power creeped environment where once you had to pay attention to mechanics they never show up as everything dies too quick. > > If all builds did around 30k with maybe condi engy on a perfect rotation doing more then mesmer (power or condi) is in a much better spot and content retains some challenge. Are you really for this continued power creep because that is exactly what you are saying. Maybe you should look at the current benchmarks, instead of the ones made back in May... The highest DPS classes (except weaver on large hitboxes) are at 34k currently, with most being around 30-32k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @apharma.3741 said: > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > So now we just need every other dps spec to be nerfed back down to about 30k and everything will be alright. > > > > > > Source: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-may-balance-patch/ > > > > No they need to buff Mirage back up, traits, ambushes, damage the whole lot. > > > > I don't understand people like you who want to actively make the game worse for everybody else. What have you actually achieved now that you have made the game worse for a bunch of people with the Mirage nerf? Does it make you feel better? Did me going around finally doing story achievements on my Mesmer make your life worse in any way? > > Um I’m against the power creep of raids, currently all dps classes are doing too much damage, how does my comment about wanting them all brought down relate to making the game worse for you unless you needed the creep to achieve what many were doing pre PoF. > > Look at current benchmarks and compare them to the first benchmarks done, nearly everyone is doing 7k more and hovering around the 37k mark, that’s a 20% increase and we lost GotL buff. This isn’t healthy for the game as it makes older content obsolete, just look at how dungeons are fairing in this power creeped environment where once you had to pay attention to mechanics they never show up as everything dies too quick. > > If all builds did around 30k with maybe condi engy on a perfect rotation doing more then mesmer (power or condi) is in a much better spot and content retains some challenge. Are you really for this continued power creep because that is exactly what you are saying. Why does me finally going back to do achievements in solo instances with a Mesmer build that finally worked in PvE upset you so much? Why does other peoples joy cause you pain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoser.7245 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I don't see them dedicating as much time to rework and nerf the dps globally till a limit. And less, to do something so unpopular. The Mirage lasted too short time to make community. Our post at reddit has been diluyed like sugar in the heap there. We don't have the player base that necromancer/scourge has to get an official answer about this. So perhaps we'll end as now, with a dps loss of 3.5K in the phantasm build and doing 26-28k with the clone build, 14k lower than before. Less surprise we'll have a nerfed (called bug fix) merry Christmas. Only hopes that in the next balance patch they buff the clone build till a competitive level. And no, the phantasm is not wellcome out there, it's too slow. With some changes it could be even hybrid (clone/phantasm) but no for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @Levetty.1279 said: > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > So now we just need every other dps spec to be nerfed back down to about 30k and everything will be alright. > > > > > > > > Source: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-may-balance-patch/ > > > > > > No they need to buff Mirage back up, traits, ambushes, damage the whole lot. > > > > > > I don't understand people like you who want to actively make the game worse for everybody else. What have you actually achieved now that you have made the game worse for a bunch of people with the Mirage nerf? Does it make you feel better? Did me going around finally doing story achievements on my Mesmer make your life worse in any way? > > > > Um I’m against the power creep of raids, currently all dps classes are doing too much damage, how does my comment about wanting them all brought down relate to making the game worse for you unless you needed the creep to achieve what many were doing pre PoF. > > > > Look at current benchmarks and compare them to the first benchmarks done, nearly everyone is doing 7k more and hovering around the 37k mark, that’s a 20% increase and we lost GotL buff. This isn’t healthy for the game as it makes older content obsolete, just look at how dungeons are fairing in this power creeped environment where once you had to pay attention to mechanics they never show up as everything dies too quick. > > > > If all builds did around 30k with maybe condi engy on a perfect rotation doing more then mesmer (power or condi) is in a much better spot and content retains some challenge. Are you really for this continued power creep because that is exactly what you are saying. > > Why does me finally going back to do achievements in solo instances with a Mesmer build that finally worked in PvE upset you so much? Why does other peoples joy cause you pain? Now you’re just being emotional, if you couldn’t do achievements in previous encounters it wasn’t because mesmer lacked damage it was usually because of mechanics which the clone mirage build never sorted out anyway. @"Josa.5067" Yes I was mistaken I was still thinking of the old benchmarks but I still think most classes could take a 10% shave though that would be extremely hard to do without doing something weird like removing sun/frost spirit. Regardless clone mirage doing 28-29k doesn’t mean you can’t run it and easily clear all raids and condi phantasm mirage or power core mes will produce reliable on boss dps with simple rotations so I really don’t understand why everyone is so up in arms over the nerf. Sure it’s a deep nerf but it hasn’t put mesmer in a spot where it does so much less damage it cannot be taken especially now all raid groups have a 5th available spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Answer my questions, not the strawman argument you would prefer to answer. Why does other people enjoying the game upset you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoser.7245 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @apharma.3741 said: > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > > So now we just need every other dps spec to be nerfed back down to about 30k and everything will be alright. > > > > > > > > > > Source: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-may-balance-patch/ > > > > > > > > No they need to buff Mirage back up, traits, ambushes, damage the whole lot. > > > > > > > > I don't understand people like you who want to actively make the game worse for everybody else. What have you actually achieved now that you have made the game worse for a bunch of people with the Mirage nerf? Does it make you feel better? Did me going around finally doing story achievements on my Mesmer make your life worse in any way? > > > > > > Um I’m against the power creep of raids, currently all dps classes are doing too much damage, how does my comment about wanting them all brought down relate to making the game worse for you unless you needed the creep to achieve what many were doing pre PoF. > > > > > > Look at current benchmarks and compare them to the first benchmarks done, nearly everyone is doing 7k more and hovering around the 37k mark, that’s a 20% increase and we lost GotL buff. This isn’t healthy for the game as it makes older content obsolete, just look at how dungeons are fairing in this power creeped environment where once you had to pay attention to mechanics they never show up as everything dies too quick. > > > > > > If all builds did around 30k with maybe condi engy on a perfect rotation doing more then mesmer (power or condi) is in a much better spot and content retains some challenge. Are you really for this continued power creep because that is exactly what you are saying. > > > > Why does me finally going back to do achievements in solo instances with a Mesmer build that finally worked in PvE upset you so much? Why does other peoples joy cause you pain? > > Now you’re just being emotional, if you couldn’t do achievements in previous encounters it wasn’t because mesmer lacked damage it was usually because of mechanics which the clone mirage build never sorted out anyway. > > @"Josa.5067" Yes I was mistaken I was still thinking of the old benchmarks but I still think most classes could take a 10% shave though that would be extremely hard to do without doing something weird like removing sun/frost spirit. Regardless clone mirage doing 28-29k doesn’t mean you can’t run it and easily clear all raids and condi phantasm mirage or power core mes will produce reliable on boss dps with simple rotations so I really don’t understand why everyone is so up in arms over the nerf. Sure it’s a deep nerf but it hasn’t put mesmer in a spot where it does so much less damage it cannot be taken especially now all raid groups have a 5th available spot. "clone mirage doing 28-29k doesn’t mean you can’t run it and easily clear all raids" -> You forgot mention: "with guild or friends". DPS mesmer is almost always insta kicked now out there as I've seen in raid, even in fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @Levetty.1279 said: > Answer my questions, not the strawman argument you would prefer to answer. > > Why does other people enjoying the game upset you? I never said other people enjoying the game upset me, funny how you claim straw man arguments whilst creating your own. As I say if you had trouble with instances and achievements it wasn’t because of mesmer lacking damage it was entirely down to mechanics, whether that be mechanics of the fight or mechanics of the way mesmer deals damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @Zoser.7245 said: > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > > > So now we just need every other dps spec to be nerfed back down to about 30k and everything will be alright. > > > > > > > > > > > > Source: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-may-balance-patch/ > > > > > > > > > > No they need to buff Mirage back up, traits, ambushes, damage the whole lot. > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand people like you who want to actively make the game worse for everybody else. What have you actually achieved now that you have made the game worse for a bunch of people with the Mirage nerf? Does it make you feel better? Did me going around finally doing story achievements on my Mesmer make your life worse in any way? > > > > > > > > Um I’m against the power creep of raids, currently all dps classes are doing too much damage, how does my comment about wanting them all brought down relate to making the game worse for you unless you needed the creep to achieve what many were doing pre PoF. > > > > > > > > Look at current benchmarks and compare them to the first benchmarks done, nearly everyone is doing 7k more and hovering around the 37k mark, that’s a 20% increase and we lost GotL buff. This isn’t healthy for the game as it makes older content obsolete, just look at how dungeons are fairing in this power creeped environment where once you had to pay attention to mechanics they never show up as everything dies too quick. > > > > > > > > If all builds did around 30k with maybe condi engy on a perfect rotation doing more then mesmer (power or condi) is in a much better spot and content retains some challenge. Are you really for this continued power creep because that is exactly what you are saying. > > > > > > Why does me finally going back to do achievements in solo instances with a Mesmer build that finally worked in PvE upset you so much? Why does other peoples joy cause you pain? > > > > Now you’re just being emotional, if you couldn’t do achievements in previous encounters it wasn’t because mesmer lacked damage it was usually because of mechanics which the clone mirage build never sorted out anyway. > > > > @"Josa.5067" Yes I was mistaken I was still thinking of the old benchmarks but I still think most classes could take a 10% shave though that would be extremely hard to do without doing something weird like removing sun/frost spirit. Regardless clone mirage doing 28-29k doesn’t mean you can’t run it and easily clear all raids and condi phantasm mirage or power core mes will produce reliable on boss dps with simple rotations so I really don’t understand why everyone is so up in arms over the nerf. Sure it’s a deep nerf but it hasn’t put mesmer in a spot where it does so much less damage it cannot be taken especially now all raid groups have a 5th available spot. > > "clone mirage doing 28-29k doesn’t mean you can’t run it and easily clear all raids" -> You forgot mention: "with guild or friends". DPS mesmer is almost always insta kicked now out there as I've seen in raid, even in fractals. I can’t help it if people choose to be elitist kittens about everything. It’s those same people that turn round and say “I’ll switch to ele for KC” then pull out 14k dps at a struggle because they’re bad at ele/weaver and would be better off doing the 25-30k on thief, mes, ranger, rev....anything else really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @apharma.3741 said: > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > Answer my questions, not the strawman argument you would prefer to answer. > > > > Why does other people enjoying the game upset you? > > I never said other people enjoying the game upset me, funny how you claim straw man arguments whilst creating your own. As I say if you had trouble with instances and achievements it wasn’t because of mesmer lacking damage it was entirely down to mechanics, whether that be mechanics of the fight or mechanics of the way mesmer deals damage. Well you read my post saying don't argue against strawman arguments but then decided to anyway. I know you hate other people having fun in the game because your recent post history is filled with posts saying that Mirage should do little damage and your post in this thread is claiming all dps classes should be nerfed out of some misguided belief that this will do anything to change how raids are. If you have problems with how raids are in the game its probably because the core mechanics of the game were designed to be the antithesis of typical MMO raids . 20k or 50k dps classes won't change this. So well done a build that many people liked has been destroyed. Since you won't answer my question I'll answer it for you, it brought you no joy that is why you immediately jumped to demanding other builds start getting destroyed too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @apharma.3741 said: > So now we just need every other dps spec to be nerfed back down to about 30k and everything will be alright. > > Source: https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-may-balance-patch/ I 100% agree. I'd be willing to accept 32k for entirely selfish builds that give absolutely no group utility. Nothing means not even arcane power from an ele if they choose to run that. But even that's a stretch. Overall I think it would be even healthier to push top DPS down to ~28K eventually, with support builds topping out around 18-20k depending on how much support they are giving out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 This is even more pressing in light of the recent changes to skills and traits that opened up 1-2 DPS slots in raid groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @Levetty.1279 said: > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > Answer my questions, not the strawman argument you would prefer to answer. > > > > > > Why does other people enjoying the game upset you? > > > > I never said other people enjoying the game upset me, funny how you claim straw man arguments whilst creating your own. As I say if you had trouble with instances and achievements it wasn’t because of mesmer lacking damage it was entirely down to mechanics, whether that be mechanics of the fight or mechanics of the way mesmer deals damage. > > Well you read my post saying don't argue against strawman arguments but then decided to anyway. I know you hate other people having fun in the game because your recent post history is filled with posts saying that Mirage should do little damage and your post in this thread is claiming all dps classes should be nerfed out of some misguided belief that this will do anything to change how raids are. If you have problems with how raids are in the game its probably because the core mechanics of the game were designed to be the antithesis of typical MMO raids . 20k or 50k dps classes won't change this. > > So well done a build that many people liked has been destroyed. Since you won't answer my question I'll answer it for you, it brought you no joy that is why you immediately jumped to demanding other builds start getting destroyed too. I’m sorry if you can’t see everything that was wrong with builds doing 42k on small targets with a simple rotation, 10k above what most others will do then there’s nothing to say, anyone defending or advocating that condi clone mirage was anything but broken for its DPS is not worth listening to. If all classes start doing 50k dps or even clone condi mirage levels pre nerf all content and challenge cease to be relevant, the enjoyment of games for many comes from overcoming difficulty, so I fail to see where I am wanting remove anyone’s enjoyment other than to preserve some form of challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @apharma.3741 said: > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > Answer my questions, not the strawman argument you would prefer to answer. > > > > > > > > Why does other people enjoying the game upset you? > > > > > > I never said other people enjoying the game upset me, funny how you claim straw man arguments whilst creating your own. As I say if you had trouble with instances and achievements it wasn’t because of mesmer lacking damage it was entirely down to mechanics, whether that be mechanics of the fight or mechanics of the way mesmer deals damage. > > > > Well you read my post saying don't argue against strawman arguments but then decided to anyway. I know you hate other people having fun in the game because your recent post history is filled with posts saying that Mirage should do little damage and your post in this thread is claiming all dps classes should be nerfed out of some misguided belief that this will do anything to change how raids are. If you have problems with how raids are in the game its probably because the core mechanics of the game were designed to be the antithesis of typical MMO raids . 20k or 50k dps classes won't change this. > > > > So well done a build that many people liked has been destroyed. Since you won't answer my question I'll answer it for you, it brought you no joy that is why you immediately jumped to demanding other builds start getting destroyed too. > > I’m sorry if you can’t see everything that was wrong with builds doing 42k on small targets with a simple rotation, 10k above what most others will do then there’s nothing to say, anyone defending or advocating that condi clone mirage was anything but broken for its DPS is not worth listening to. > > If all classes start doing 50k dps or even clone condi mirage levels pre nerf all content and challenge cease to be relevant, the enjoyment of games for many comes from overcoming difficulty, so I fail to see where I am wanting remove anyone’s enjoyment other than to preserve some form of challenge. But you are asking for builds that are doing less then 42k to be nerfed. You wanted Mirage to do pitiful damage compared to other classes. The clone build has gone and we are back to the horrible phantasm build which you don't have a problem with. If you want harder raids ask for harder mechanics or go to a more traditional MMO because it sounds like thats what you want. If you actually wanted Raids to be harder you would be asking for Distortion share to be removed. Distortion share does more harm to raids then a working clone Mirage would or even the 42k clone Mirage but well I guess more people enjoyed playing clone Mirage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @Levetty.1279 said: > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > > Answer my questions, not the strawman argument you would prefer to answer. > > > > > > > > > > Why does other people enjoying the game upset you? > > > > > > > > I never said other people enjoying the game upset me, funny how you claim straw man arguments whilst creating your own. As I say if you had trouble with instances and achievements it wasn’t because of mesmer lacking damage it was entirely down to mechanics, whether that be mechanics of the fight or mechanics of the way mesmer deals damage. > > > > > > Well you read my post saying don't argue against strawman arguments but then decided to anyway. I know you hate other people having fun in the game because your recent post history is filled with posts saying that Mirage should do little damage and your post in this thread is claiming all dps classes should be nerfed out of some misguided belief that this will do anything to change how raids are. If you have problems with how raids are in the game its probably because the core mechanics of the game were designed to be the antithesis of typical MMO raids . 20k or 50k dps classes won't change this. > > > > > > So well done a build that many people liked has been destroyed. Since you won't answer my question I'll answer it for you, it brought you no joy that is why you immediately jumped to demanding other builds start getting destroyed too. > > > > I’m sorry if you can’t see everything that was wrong with builds doing 42k on small targets with a simple rotation, 10k above what most others will do then there’s nothing to say, anyone defending or advocating that condi clone mirage was anything but broken for its DPS is not worth listening to. > > > > If all classes start doing 50k dps or even clone condi mirage levels pre nerf all content and challenge cease to be relevant, the enjoyment of games for many comes from overcoming difficulty, so I fail to see where I am wanting remove anyone’s enjoyment other than to preserve some form of challenge. > > But you are asking for builds that are doing less then 42k to be nerfed. You wanted Mirage to do pitiful damage compared to other classes. The clone build has gone and we are back to the horrible phantasm build which you don't have a problem with. > > If you want harder raids ask for harder mechanics or go to a more traditional MMO because it sounds like thats what you want. If you actually wanted Raids to be harder you would be asking for Distortion share to be removed. Distortion share does more harm to raids then a working clone Mirage would or even the 42k clone Mirage but well I guess more people enjoyed playing clone Mirage. A 10% shave isn’t a huge nerf and I already said it would be really hard to do properly without doing something weird. For someone who seems to be following my post history I find it hard to believe you would ever think I am fine with phantasm builds and I already made my views clear on distortion share and how strong chrono is on these forums. I didn’t want mirage to do pitiful damage, I wanted mirage to be in line, 42k on small wasn’t in line it wasn’t even close to being in line. I’m not asking for harder raids, I’m asking to not have power creep like we had with early PoF and leaving condi clone mirage would be just that power creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @apharma.3741 said: > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > > > Answer my questions, not the strawman argument you would prefer to answer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Why does other people enjoying the game upset you? > > > > > > > > > > I never said other people enjoying the game upset me, funny how you claim straw man arguments whilst creating your own. As I say if you had trouble with instances and achievements it wasn’t because of mesmer lacking damage it was entirely down to mechanics, whether that be mechanics of the fight or mechanics of the way mesmer deals damage. > > > > > > > > Well you read my post saying don't argue against strawman arguments but then decided to anyway. I know you hate other people having fun in the game because your recent post history is filled with posts saying that Mirage should do little damage and your post in this thread is claiming all dps classes should be nerfed out of some misguided belief that this will do anything to change how raids are. If you have problems with how raids are in the game its probably because the core mechanics of the game were designed to be the antithesis of typical MMO raids . 20k or 50k dps classes won't change this. > > > > > > > > So well done a build that many people liked has been destroyed. Since you won't answer my question I'll answer it for you, it brought you no joy that is why you immediately jumped to demanding other builds start getting destroyed too. > > > > > > I’m sorry if you can’t see everything that was wrong with builds doing 42k on small targets with a simple rotation, 10k above what most others will do then there’s nothing to say, anyone defending or advocating that condi clone mirage was anything but broken for its DPS is not worth listening to. > > > > > > If all classes start doing 50k dps or even clone condi mirage levels pre nerf all content and challenge cease to be relevant, the enjoyment of games for many comes from overcoming difficulty, so I fail to see where I am wanting remove anyone’s enjoyment other than to preserve some form of challenge. > > > > But you are asking for builds that are doing less then 42k to be nerfed. You wanted Mirage to do pitiful damage compared to other classes. The clone build has gone and we are back to the horrible phantasm build which you don't have a problem with. > > > > If you want harder raids ask for harder mechanics or go to a more traditional MMO because it sounds like thats what you want. If you actually wanted Raids to be harder you would be asking for Distortion share to be removed. Distortion share does more harm to raids then a working clone Mirage would or even the 42k clone Mirage but well I guess more people enjoyed playing clone Mirage. > > A 10% shave isn’t a huge nerf and I already said it would be really hard to do properly without doing something weird. For someone who seems to be following my post history I find it hard to believe you would ever think I am fine with phantasm builds and I already made my views clear on distortion share and how strong chrono is on these forums. > > I didn’t want mirage to do pitiful damage, I wanted mirage to be in line, 42k on small wasn’t in line it wasn’t even close to being in line. > > I’m not asking for harder raids, I’m asking to not have power creep like we had with early PoF and leaving condi clone mirage would be just that power creep. Theres a difference between wanting mirage toned down to be the same as other DPS builds and wanting Mirage to do no damage. You haven't said anything at all about distortion, phantasms or how buggy axe ambush is now, especially on clones. You did repeatedly say that Mirage should do less damage then other builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 > @Levetty.1279 said: > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > > > @apharma.3741 said: > > > > > > > @Levetty.1279 said: > > > > > > > Answer my questions, not the strawman argument you would prefer to answer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why does other people enjoying the game upset you? > > > > > > > > > > > > I never said other people enjoying the game upset me, funny how you claim straw man arguments whilst creating your own. As I say if you had trouble with instances and achievements it wasn’t because of mesmer lacking damage it was entirely down to mechanics, whether that be mechanics of the fight or mechanics of the way mesmer deals damage. > > > > > > > > > > Well you read my post saying don't argue against strawman arguments but then decided to anyway. I know you hate other people having fun in the game because your recent post history is filled with posts saying that Mirage should do little damage and your post in this thread is claiming all dps classes should be nerfed out of some misguided belief that this will do anything to change how raids are. If you have problems with how raids are in the game its probably because the core mechanics of the game were designed to be the antithesis of typical MMO raids . 20k or 50k dps classes won't change this. > > > > > > > > > > So well done a build that many people liked has been destroyed. Since you won't answer my question I'll answer it for you, it brought you no joy that is why you immediately jumped to demanding other builds start getting destroyed too. > > > > > > > > I’m sorry if you can’t see everything that was wrong with builds doing 42k on small targets with a simple rotation, 10k above what most others will do then there’s nothing to say, anyone defending or advocating that condi clone mirage was anything but broken for its DPS is not worth listening to. > > > > > > > > If all classes start doing 50k dps or even clone condi mirage levels pre nerf all content and challenge cease to be relevant, the enjoyment of games for many comes from overcoming difficulty, so I fail to see where I am wanting remove anyone’s enjoyment other than to preserve some form of challenge. > > > > > > But you are asking for builds that are doing less then 42k to be nerfed. You wanted Mirage to do pitiful damage compared to other classes. The clone build has gone and we are back to the horrible phantasm build which you don't have a problem with. > > > > > > If you want harder raids ask for harder mechanics or go to a more traditional MMO because it sounds like thats what you want. If you actually wanted Raids to be harder you would be asking for Distortion share to be removed. Distortion share does more harm to raids then a working clone Mirage would or even the 42k clone Mirage but well I guess more people enjoyed playing clone Mirage. > > > > A 10% shave isn’t a huge nerf and I already said it would be really hard to do properly without doing something weird. For someone who seems to be following my post history I find it hard to believe you would ever think I am fine with phantasm builds and I already made my views clear on distortion share and how strong chrono is on these forums. > > > > I didn’t want mirage to do pitiful damage, I wanted mirage to be in line, 42k on small wasn’t in line it wasn’t even close to being in line. > > > > I’m not asking for harder raids, I’m asking to not have power creep like we had with early PoF and leaving condi clone mirage would be just that power creep. > > Theres a difference between wanting mirage toned down to be the same as other DPS builds and wanting Mirage to do no damage. You haven't said anything at all about distortion, phantasms or how buggy axe ambush is now, especially on clones. You did repeatedly say that Mirage should do less damage then other builds. Look at my post history, you will find plenty of comments in other threads about distortion and phantasm mechanics, I also made many comments on the old forums (which have all been deleted with the old forum) about my views on phantasms not only for their role in PvP but PvE too so it’s not like I haven’t already said it multiple times over 2 years in threads you have posted in. The reason I haven’t commented on axe ambush and it’s bugs are because I haven’t actually played much more than the story since Tuesday so haven’t actually got around to looking at it. That isn’t the same as saying I think they’re overpowered, underpowered or balanced, it means I have no comment on it, surprise surprise. I said it should do less damage because of the amount of support it can bring, there’s a lot of classes that have little to no support options at all in their DPS builds because they need trait lines outside of dps to bring that support. I also said guard should do less damage but that’s not conducive to your agenda of painting me as someone that hates mesmer so I can see why you omitted that. To clarify less damage doesn’t mean it needs to do 10k less, 3 or 4K is a good spot for classes that have more flexibility to them, they retain competitiveness for flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Mirage doesn’t suddenly lose the ability to bring feedback, slot a conditions cleanse, stab or anything else from mesmers amazing utility skills. To be clear many classes in PvE would give their offhand and half their class mechanic to have utility skills as good as mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now