TexZero.7910 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 > @Torolan.5816 said: > Maybe I can use a RL example to make it a little clearer what I mean: > Assume we have a worker who has always shown dedication, good work and loyality. He has a high school diploma and knows his job. The work given out by the company is rather simple, and nobody cares if the worker goes for a quick bathroom or cigarette break. > The company that employs him then one day says: > "Mr worker, you have always done your job well and we appreciate that your dedication has helped us to stay in the market. But now we have this brand new production line that requires technicans instead of workers, and you´re not qualified enough anymore. Don´t worry, you can keep your job but you will never be promoted again until you also make a course as a technician. If you want to make said course, your working dress must be GREEN. Not red or blue, just GREEN." > Then imagine one of the technicians comes around from his brand new working place and says: > "You know Mr. worker, we get an technician-only apple every day. Because we are technicians. Not because we are more often on the job than you are or earn more than you do for the company, just so." > > I was always repelled by the mindset of monetarily successful people in RL who defended their much to high paychecks or bonus payments with the idea that others simply could have followed suit and the disgruntled regular people they encounter all have envoy problems. Not sure if you're agreeing with what i said or not, because frankly i've had that happen. Guess what i did ? Went out got educated, put on formal wear and did my job. If the end goal is worth it enough, you'll do it. Clearly for you it's not a big enough motivation so you really don't have a reason for outrage other than at yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I am currently employed as Educator and I have a bachelor´s degree in foreign trade. I have done all my later school credits in evening school, I know how it is to work and learn at the same time. I just don´t want to repeat that when I play, palying should be fun and not like work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 > @Torolan.5816 said: > I am currently employed as Educator and I have a bachelor´s degree in foreign trade. I have done all my later school credits in evening school, I know how it is to work and learn at the same time. I just don´t want to repeat that when I play, palying should be fun and not like work. And it times like this i'm reminded of something my old Econ teacher told me. Work is what you make of it. I've had countless hours of fun raiding. It's possible to do so when you surround yourself with a good group of people (This doesn't mean skill wise). Here's one such video a guildmate made of our fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 You won´t convince me of your opinion and I won´t convince you of mine. Let´s just agree that we are not looking for the same content and atmosphere in an MMO but take part in the same MMO for the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 > @Moonlit.6421 said: > > @thrag.9740 said: > > Will I ever get the wvw legendary backpack ? Or armor? or the pvp ones? No, because I don't play those game modes, and that is just fine, and so is this. > > Not to be whatever about this or anything but one hole in your point is that while you may not get the legendary stuff from those game modes, you can indeed get legendary armor/backs from the other modes as well. WvW, PvP, and PvE all have a legendary backpack for example, but they do _not_ all have legendary trinkets so you can't exactly compare the two since one has an alternative and the other currently does not. A perfectly fair point, and just like eventually raid's exclusive legendary armor found its way to other game modes, I expect rings will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulf.3098 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 > @thrag.9740 said: > A perfectly fair point, and just like eventually raid's exclusive legendary armor found its way to other game modes, I expect rings will do the same. Basing it off the current trend starting with Aurora the PvE accessory and now the Ring from raids it is safe to assume either pvp or WvW will be getting an Amulet. With the possibility of fractals giving something in the future as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limodriver.4106 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 I cant wait for Legendary Amulet which needs Ultimate Dominator and Diamond Legend titles lol. U think Raid is Legendary hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Crossaber.8934 said: > So more and more good stuff locked behind Raid, looks like the game is no longer the original GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molesworth.1684 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 OK this has been said over and over again I know, but after more than 5 years of playing GW2 I feel I want to say my piece. I have enjoyed all parts of the game apart from pvp which I chose not to do; got dungeon master, fractals to level 50. I'm not a very skilled player but I've made 10 legendaries, Aurora, Warbringer, a couple of pieces of wvw legendary armor. I have 3 active accounts on different wvw servers. The fact that the new legendary ring is locked behind raids, which I have not the skill or time to do, has finally made me decide to quit a game which has seen me through hard times irl, the death of three close relatives included. No matter if Coalescence is no big deal; I would like to craft it. And I am excluded. It's the principal of the thing. I feel the game has lost its way from the friendly inclusive casual friendly game it once was. End of an era for me, sad times but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Carighan.6758 said: > > @Astralporing.1957 said: > > Learning raids was never a problem (for me, at least, i know people for whom it's way, way harder, and not for lack of trying). They still remain a content only a minority of players actually _like_. Not even all _raiders_ like it. > > > > Are you seriously suggesting that people should be incentivized to do the content they dislike? Wouldn't that diminish the fun they get out of the game? What design goal is that... > > Erm... eeeeh... you realize that's how MMORPG design works since nearly 20 years now, right? Yeah, sure, that's how they worked when the game populations were much smaller and those games were made for a niche audience that already liked this kind of things. This model's long outdated, and today is nowhere as severe as it was before (and for a reason). Now, that AAA games are out to get a much bigger population, they are much more careful about giving the players what they want, instead of demanding players like what they get (as it was a norm in the past times). Because players that do _not_ like what they get may leave. It's just old habits die hard, it seems. > @TexZero.7910 said: > And it times like this i'm reminded of something my old Econ teacher told me. > Work is what you make of it. > > I've had countless hours of fun raiding. It's possible to do so when you surround yourself with a good group of people (This doesn't mean skill wise). And that's the point. It's okay for you because you find it fun. It's not okay for me because i don't find it fun. You just happen to be rewarded because the reward is in the content that _you_ like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Astralporing.1957 said: > You just happen to be rewarded because the reward is in the content that _you_ like. You just happen to be missing the entire point. People complain about the community aspects of raiding but refuse to find the community of people who are similar to them. Your work is what you make of it is very apt for an analogy in this regard. If i choose to work sanitation of course im gonna get dirty, so instead of working there i can find a nice office space in working IT instead with people who want to be there and my everyday QoL goes up significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulf.3098 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Limodriver.4106 said: > I cant wait for Legendary Amulet which needs Ultimate Dominator and Diamond Legend titles lol. U think Raid is Legendary hahaha. The tears on the forums will be hilarious but I doubt they would tie it to any currently obtainable achievement. Either way I won't care because I hate WvW and PvP so any legendaries specifically tied to it I won't make and that is okay. :+1: > @TexZero.7910 said: > You just happen to be missing the entire point. > > People complain about the community aspects of raiding but refuse to find the community of people who are similar to them. > Your work is what you make of it is very apt for an analogy in this regard. If i choose to work sanitation of course im gonna get dirty, so instead of working there i can find a nice office space in working IT instead with people who want to be there and my everyday QoL goes up significantly. I personally think it has more to do to the fact that a lot of people feel they are entitled especially in the western cultures. I blame all these pay to win MMORPG's that have massively sprung up over the past decade or games that let you just buy 100% of the cosmetics through the in game shop basically removing any amount of effort to obtain things completely. Back when I first started playing WoW in 2007 (several years before I started raiding in that game) and saw all these PvPers and raiders running around with their awesome looking gear I thought it was the coolest thing and was something I was going to get someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PookieDaWombat.6209 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Sadly, it goes like this: people who raid on the reg are also more likely to drop additional funds on Anet so that is a target demographic linked directly to their bottom line. Of all the game modes/areas WvW is probably lowest rung on the "who anet cares about" so if you are an exclusively WvW player don't expect there to be a way forward on this. Basically Anet has said categorically that if you want the "prestige" of "Legendary" items that are not weapons then you will need to either raid or toss off. Want the QoL of stat swapping? Grind and play content that you don't want to run then get chewed out by serious players of that mode. Its a recipe for toxicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulf.3098 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @PookieDaWombat.6209 said: > Sadly, it goes like this: people who raid on the reg are also more likely to drop additional funds on Anet so that is a target demographic linked directly to their bottom line. Of all the game modes/areas WvW is probably lowest rung on the "who anet cares about" so if you are an exclusively WvW player don't expect there to be a way forward on this. > > Basically Anet has said categorically that if you want the "prestige" of "Legendary" items that are not weapons then you will need to either raid or toss off. Want the QoL of stat swapping? Grind and play content that you don't want to run then get chewed out by serious players of that mode. Its a recipe for toxicity. That is not even remotely close to true. People who only play the game an hour or two (or less) a day are more likely to spend actual $$ on the game because they do not have the time but have the money where as people who play a lot have the gold to convert to gems. Lets ignore all the other content that has been added to other parts of the game because something was added to a gamemode I hate. PvP and WvW will get theirs soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwelgm.4315 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 My only concern here is that there's quite some unique skins released for each raid, that are very well crafted/have particle effects, whereas Living World stuff (for example the weapons shipping in with this episode) are quite underwhelming in comparison. I don't think raiders need more incentive in the form of rewards, other than titles and as few skins as possible. It's supposed to be the ultimate game mode for a challenge but not where you'll go to actually get a skin you want, otherwise the mode itself becomes a target (like it is now, people want to play it in spite of hating it, because of unique rewards). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @maxwelgm.4315 said: > My only concern here is that there's quite some unique skins released for each raid, that are very well crafted/have particle effects, whereas Living World stuff (for example the weapons shipping in with this episode) are quite underwhelming in comparison. I don't think raiders need more incentive in the form of rewards, other than titles and as few skins as possible. It's supposed to be the ultimate game mode for a challenge but not where you'll go to actually get a skin you want, otherwise the mode itself becomes a target (like it is now, people want to play it in spite of hating it, because of unique rewards). Judging from most comments I've seen, most raiders want to be "duly rewarded". It's not genuinely about the challenge. It's about prestige. It's ashame, anet has given in ..to what I'm to understand is a relatively small community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Raiding isn't hard, make a group do the content thats it. Every other mmo i play people have no issue's grouping up and doing content they actually perfer to do content together then solo in those games but here its like the total opposite. It isn't the end of the world just use lfg get like minded people in your raid and do the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Vulf.3098 said: > > @PookieDaWombat.6209 said: > > Sadly, it goes like this: people who raid on the reg are also more likely to drop additional funds on Anet so that is a target demographic linked directly to their bottom line. Of all the game modes/areas WvW is probably lowest rung on the "who anet cares about" so if you are an exclusively WvW player don't expect there to be a way forward on this. > > > > Basically Anet has said categorically that if you want the "prestige" of "Legendary" items that are not weapons then you will need to either raid or toss off. Want the QoL of stat swapping? Grind and play content that you don't want to run then get chewed out by serious players of that mode. Its a recipe for toxicity. > > That is not even remotely close to true. People who only play the game an hour or two (or less) a day are more likely to spend actual $$ on the game because they do not have the time but have the money where as people who play a lot have the gold to convert to gems. > > Lets ignore all the other content that has been added to other parts of the game because something was added to a gamemode I hate. PvP and WvW will get theirs soon enough. > > > @Genesis.5169 said: > Raiding isn't hard, make a group do the content thats it. Every other mmo i play people have no issue's grouping up and doing content they actually perfer to do content together then solo in those games but here its like the total opposite. > > It isn't the end of the world just use lfg get like minded people in your raid and do the content. > @Vulf.3098 said: > > @PookieDaWombat.6209 said: > > Sadly, it goes like this: people who raid on the reg are also more likely to drop additional funds on Anet so that is a target demographic linked directly to their bottom line. Of all the game modes/areas WvW is probably lowest rung on the "who anet cares about" so if you are an exclusively WvW player don't expect there to be a way forward on this. > > > > Basically Anet has said categorically that if you want the "prestige" of "Legendary" items that are not weapons then you will need to either raid or toss off. Want the QoL of stat swapping? Grind and play content that you don't want to run then get chewed out by serious players of that mode. Its a recipe for toxicity. > > That is not even remotely close to true. People who only play the game an hour or two (or less) a day are more likely to spend actual $$ on the game because they do not have the time but have the money where as people who play a lot have the gold to convert to gems. > > Lets ignore all the other content that has been added to other parts of the game because something was added to a gamemode I hate. PvP and WvW will get theirs soon enough. > > Why would the people who play 1hour a day care enough to spend money on the game in the first place vs the guy who plays 6hours a day? Wouldn't the guy who plays 6 hours a day spend $$ so he can spend his gold on legendaries because thats the actual gw2 end game? I mean really super casuals like that have no reason to spend money on a game if they just play it in passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Fremtid.3528 said: > > @Taygus.4571 said: > > > @Fremtid.3528 said: > > > > @Taygus.4571 said: > > > > I don't do raids. > > > > > > > > I don't see the problem of offering a legendary ring. It's not like you need it for pve. And ascended trinkets are easy enough to get. > > > > > > > This is literally besides the point. Some people like having legendaries because it means every time they release new stats, all they have to do is change the legendary gear and don't have to mystic forge gear a thousand times until you find a build for you. Especially with hardened leather being at the high price it is now. Which is why when originally legendary armor was locked behind only raids SO MANY PEOPLE WERE PISSED. And now with the upcoming release of a set of legendary trinkets and rings etc people are like "cool, i won't have to grind whatever current currency to get trinkets, just stat swap." But anet's like "hold up a sec, lol, you raid bro?" > > > > > > Not only that, the creation of legendaries gives people long to semi-long term goals to keep them logging in every day. And when you lock the only one of it's slot behind raids after already giving raids the only legendary armor with effects. I'm sorry it's kitten. I already have more than enough ascended trinkets! You're right they ARE easy to get. Unfortunately, I wanted to build the legendary ring so that if i needed to tweak my build for wvw I wouldn't have to mindlessly farm living world currency for a week or more to get it. I'd rather put my hard work into an investment not throw away trash that I'm going to have to toss next stat change. Next elite spec. Next balance patch. > > > > > > And as I've said before, with them releasing the ring like this. It now means I have nothing to do until Christmas. Which is a problem for me and no incentive to log in. And you might be like whatever to that but I'm industrious and I've done a lot of stuff in this game that other people haven't. I'm an ach hunter. GH builder. I've built and decorated a private gh. I've built 17 legendaries. Despite my heavy PVE leanings I'm almost rank 900 in wvw. I've accomplished a lot in the three years i've been playing this game. And if I tell you *I* have nothing to do. You can bet people with a lot less drive are bored as well. > > > > > > > > Guess you better find a raid guild ;) > > > > In most cases..its cheaper to have a separate character with the different ascended stats that you want theb it is to go through the process of legendary anyway. > > > > And you still would have to change sigils. > > > > And you sound like you spen far too many hours in this game. Have a kit kat. > > > > > > I'm not bored.... And I have like no real goals lol. But I also don't treat the game like a full time job. > > tfw someone off topic tells you to eat chocolate, you don't even like chocolate and its not even high quality chocolate they're offering you. /coolstorybro I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulf.3098 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Genesis.5169 said: > Why would the people who play 1hour a day care enough to spend money on the game in the first place vs the guy who plays 6hours a day? Wouldn't the guy who plays 6 hours a day spend $$ so he can spend his gold on legendaries because thats the actual gw2 end game? > > I mean really super casuals like that have no reason to spend money on a game if they just play it in passing. That is it though. The guy who can only play 1 hour will spend money on gems, convert to gold and buy what they want in game because it saves a lot of time. I know a ton of people who do this. We also have the people who spend a lot of money on gems and do little to no content because they treat this game as some fancy chat program with a cute character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Vulf.3098 said: > > @Genesis.5169 said: > > Why would the people who play 1hour a day care enough to spend money on the game in the first place vs the guy who plays 6hours a day? Wouldn't the guy who plays 6 hours a day spend $$ so he can spend his gold on legendaries because thats the actual gw2 end game? > > > > I mean really super casuals like that have no reason to spend money on a game if they just play it in passing. > > That is it though. The guy who can only play 1 hour will spend money on gems, convert to gold and buy what they want in game because it saves a lot of time. I know a ton of people who do this. > > We also have the people who spend a lot of money on gems and do little to no content because they treat this game as some fancy chat program with a cute character. > > > @Vulf.3098 said: > > @Genesis.5169 said: > > Why would the people who play 1hour a day care enough to spend money on the game in the first place vs the guy who plays 6hours a day? Wouldn't the guy who plays 6 hours a day spend $$ so he can spend his gold on legendaries because thats the actual gw2 end game? > > > > I mean really super casuals like that have no reason to spend money on a game if they just play it in passing. > > That is it though. The guy who can only play 1 hour will spend money on gems, convert to gold and buy what they want in game because it saves a lot of time. I know a ton of people who do this. > > We also have the people who spend a lot of money on gems and do little to no content because they treat this game as some fancy chat program with a cute character. > > But why would he have the motivation to bother? If you only play 1 hour a day that's not enough time to be invested in anything he wouldn't even know what he needed gold for. This argument makes no sense the more casual you are the less like you are to buy stuff because you have less investment in the game and no knowledge to even know what to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @Astralporing.1957 said: > > You just happen to be rewarded because the reward is in the content that _you_ like. > You just happen to be missing the entire point. > > People complain about the community aspects of raiding but refuse to find the community of people who are similar to them. > Your work is what you make of it is very apt for an analogy in this regard. If i choose to work sanitation of course im gonna get dirty, so instead of working there i can find a nice office space in working IT instead with people who want to be there and my everyday QoL goes up significantly. > Let's leave off the real world analogies. They are almost never applied properly. Most sanitation workers don't have the qualifications to work IT, so the only job they might get in that environment is working for the janitorial contractor, still dealing with dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulf.3098 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Genesis.5169 said: > But why would he have the motivation to bother? If you only play 1 hour a day that's not enough time to be invested in anything he wouldn't even know what he needed gold for. This argument makes no sense the more casual you are the less like you are to buy stuff because you have less investment in the game and no knowledge to even know what to buy. Casual =/= new player. I see shiny I buy it. It's not an argument and we are going off topic so I am ended this here. It is simply called having disposable income. Doesn't really matter on time investment because usually when someone has money and they want something they buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahou.3924 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @Genesis.5169 said: > > @Vulf.3098 said: > > > @Genesis.5169 said: > > > Why would the people who play 1hour a day care enough to spend money on the game in the first place vs the guy who plays 6hours a day? Wouldn't the guy who plays 6 hours a day spend $$ so he can spend his gold on legendaries because thats the actual gw2 end game? > > > > > > I mean really super casuals like that have no reason to spend money on a game if they just play it in passing. > > > > That is it though. The guy who can only play 1 hour will spend money on gems, convert to gold and buy what they want in game because it saves a lot of time. I know a ton of people who do this. > > > > We also have the people who spend a lot of money on gems and do little to no content because they treat this game as some fancy chat program with a cute character. > > > > > > > @Vulf.3098 said: > > > @Genesis.5169 said: > > > Why would the people who play 1hour a day care enough to spend money on the game in the first place vs the guy who plays 6hours a day? Wouldn't the guy who plays 6 hours a day spend $$ so he can spend his gold on legendaries because thats the actual gw2 end game? > > > > > > I mean really super casuals like that have no reason to spend money on a game if they just play it in passing. > > > > That is it though. The guy who can only play 1 hour will spend money on gems, convert to gold and buy what they want in game because it saves a lot of time. I know a ton of people who do this. > > > > We also have the people who spend a lot of money on gems and do little to no content because they treat this game as some fancy chat program with a cute character. > > > > > > But why would he have the motivation to bother? If you only play 1 hour a day that's not enough time to be invested in anything he wouldn't even know what he needed gold for. This argument makes no sense the more casual you are the less like you are to buy stuff because you have less investment in the game and no knowledge to even know what to buy. Just because it makes no sense for you doesn't mean it makes no sense for everyone else. No rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blockhead Magee.3092 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 Anet, implement the 'easy' button so the folks who want things without working for them can get their special little toy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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