[Suggestion] Make Perfected Envoy skins available for WvW legendary armor as well

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> No, leave fancy skins out of WvW, we don't need more farmer's in zerker gear and magic find food being rallybots.

> Raider's deserve those skins, it takes a lot of skill to do PvE. You have to memorize all those scripted predictable attacks, so of course you should be rewarded with the best loot in game. We will just wait another 4-5 years so that game modes that actually require skill and thinking can maybe get a bug fix and we will be grateful for it.

 

These "Game modes that require skill and thinking" as you call them, do not exist in this game, because the rewards of those modes are separate from skill and thinking.

At least Raids actually reward skill and thinking in PVE.

[X T D.6458]

> @Umut.5471 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @Umut.5471 said:

> > > Raids are limited to 10 coordinated people, we can't do it with random people successfully. We don't have enough people to do it.

> > > I can just join a WvW squad and farm my Legendary Armor this way. But without the skin, it's not important for me. I can just use any other ascended armor.

> >

> > You just answered why. One requires 10 coordinated people, the other is a matter of brain-dead farm.

> >

> > > Legendary skins shouldn't be locked to raids which aren't available for many people.

> >

> > And the WvW version is?

>

> What if we don't like to do instanced raid content? Or don't have the numbers to do it? They promised us legendary armors for WvW and sPvP.

> I want to see those legendary armors, that's all. Legendary armor = Armor with legendary skin.

> Raid community is hella toxic, I can't believe what you guys are saying here. And you are suggesting me to form a party with toxic players like that.

>

 

WvW already has exclusive skins...mistforged, sublime, Warbringer, etc. I do not personally care about the skins. I like that we can use skirmish tickets to upgrade ascended gear to legendary in WvW. I only care about the functional and practical benefit, the skins are irrelevant to me.

 

 

[X T D.6458]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > No, leave fancy skins out of WvW, we don't need more farmer's in zerker gear and magic find food being rallybots.

> > Raider's deserve those skins, it takes a lot of skill to do PvE. You have to memorize all those scripted predictable attacks, so of course you should be rewarded with the best loot in game. We will just wait another 4-5 years so that game modes that actually require skill and thinking can maybe get a bug fix and we will be grateful for it.

>

> These "Game modes that require skill and thinking" as you call them, do not exist in this game, because the rewards of those modes are separate from skill and thinking.

> At least Raids actually reward skill and thinking in PVE.

 

Sure, try hopping in TS, and using an actual build. PvE can be fun sometimes sure, but please don't ever compare scripted npc actions to playing against other people...

[X T D.6458]

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > No, leave fancy skins out of WvW, we don't need more farmer's in zerker gear and magic find food being rallybots.

> > Raider's deserve those skins, it takes a lot of skill to do PvE. You have to memorize all those scripted predictable attacks, so of course you should be rewarded with the best loot in game. We will just wait another 4-5 years so that game modes that actually require skill and thinking can maybe get a bug fix and we will be grateful for it.

>

> While I enjoy both raiding and wvw, if I was a pure wvw player I seriously would not bark off about skill. A major part of the wvw gameplay is zerg fights and just time spent in the game mode. That does not scream skill to me. The same goes for spvp which has devolved into nothing but a daily/skin farm for a majority of the players.

 

You know its ok to break off from zergs, its ok don't be afraid.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > No, leave fancy skins out of WvW, we don't need more farmer's in zerker gear and magic find food being rallybots.

> > > Raider's deserve those skins, it takes a lot of skill to do PvE. You have to memorize all those scripted predictable attacks, so of course you should be rewarded with the best loot in game. We will just wait another 4-5 years so that game modes that actually require skill and thinking can maybe get a bug fix and we will be grateful for it.

> >

> > These "Game modes that require skill and thinking" as you call them, do not exist in this game, because the rewards of those modes are separate from skill and thinking.

> > At least Raids actually reward skill and thinking in PVE.

>

> Sure, try hopping in TS, and using an actual build. PvE can be fun sometimes sure, but please don't ever compare scripted npc actions to playing against other people...

 

Sure fighting other players can be more challenging than fighting other people but the key difference is that in PvP/WvW you can get all the rewards available and never ever "win". It will take you longer, but you will get there. On the other hand, in those scripted PVE situations you have to beat them to get their rewards. Maybe what you say would be true if they actually rewarded players for having skill and thinking, but currently your skill doesn't play any role in what rewards you get.

[X T D.6458]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > > No, leave fancy skins out of WvW, we don't need more farmer's in zerker gear and magic find food being rallybots.

> > > > Raider's deserve those skins, it takes a lot of skill to do PvE. You have to memorize all those scripted predictable attacks, so of course you should be rewarded with the best loot in game. We will just wait another 4-5 years so that game modes that actually require skill and thinking can maybe get a bug fix and we will be grateful for it.

> > >

> > > These "Game modes that require skill and thinking" as you call them, do not exist in this game, because the rewards of those modes are separate from skill and thinking.

> > > At least Raids actually reward skill and thinking in PVE.

> >

> > Sure, try hopping in TS, and using an actual build. PvE can be fun sometimes sure, but please don't ever compare scripted npc actions to playing against other people...

>

> Sure fighting other players can be more challenging than fighting other people but the key difference is that in PvP/WvW you can get all the rewards available and never ever "win". It will take you longer, but you will get there. On the other hand, in those scripted PVE situations you have to beat them to get their rewards. Maybe what you say would be true if they actually rewarded players for having skill and thinking, but currently your skill doesn't play any role in what rewards you get.

 

Lol, you basically just admitting that they reward you more for playing mindlessly...

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> Lol, you basically just admitting that they reward you more for playing mindlessly...

 

Yes in PvP/WvW because you don't actually need skill or thinking to get any of the rewards. You don't even have to fight competent human opponents to get any of the rewards. On the other hand, in PVE, you MUST defeat these scripted bosses to get any of their rewards. You MUST have the skill to defeat them.

If they ever found a way to actually reward skill in WvW, that would be awesome.

 

You said this:

>You know its ok to break off from zergs, its ok don't be afraid.

 

Will you get better rewards, or even different rewards if you break off from zergs? No you won't, if anything, you will get far reduced rewards, than auto attacking with your loot stick in huge blob fights. And this is the main problem that makes the argument "playing against players" pointless.

[X T D.6458]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Erasculio.2914]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> Yes in PvP/WvW because you don't actually need skill or thinking to get any of the rewards. You don't even have to fight competent human opponents to get any of the rewards. On the other hand, in PVE, you MUST defeat these scripted bosses to get any of their rewards. You MUST have the skill to defeat them.

 

But isn't PvDoor in WvW pretty much the equivalent of buying raid boss kills in PvE? Neither require skill. You don't "MUST" defeat the scripted bosses, you can pay for people to do that for you.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @Erasculio.2914 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > Yes in PvP/WvW because you don't actually need skill or thinking to get any of the rewards. You don't even have to fight competent human opponents to get any of the rewards. On the other hand, in PVE, you MUST defeat these scripted bosses to get any of their rewards. You MUST have the skill to defeat them.

>

> But isn't PvDoor in WvW pretty much the equivalent of buying raid boss kills in PvE? Neither require skill. You don't "MUST" defeat the scripted bosses, you can pay for people to do that for you.

>

 

Sure if you put in enough gold you can get anything basically.

 

Now let's compare this information to how many people in pve buy their complete kills and LI versus the amount of WvW players that just mindlessly follow the brainbug?

 

Again, wvw is a lot of fun, unfortunately the way it's designed it requires 0 skill or wins to eventually reach any goal set (which in and of its self has its benefits it being designed this way), I'd still not lean out a window and call pve raids braindead when comparing both modes.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Carlin Sanders.3587" said:

> Perfected envoy is the reward for going out of your comfort zone and actually raiding. otherwise you have a functionally similar set of armor you can earn in both WvW and PvP. 'nuff said.

 

Why should there be a reward for raiding if you don't enjoy raiding? What's the benefit in rewarding players for not enjoying their time in the game?

[Malediktus.9250]

No, it should stay raid exclusive. It is not even very hard to raid in this game. Anyone who tries a bit will succeed after some time.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Sir Alymer.3406" said:

> The skin is a prestigious item for accomplishing raids pretty thoroughly.

Having one set myself, i can only laugh at you. The only reason why it's not that common is because raids are a content type hugely unappealing to a majority of the community. Well, that and the gold cost.

 

> @FrizzFreston.5290 said:

> Just like, fractal skins, wvw skins, pvp skins, dungeon skins, open world skins and guild skins then? Why is that okay, but raid skins aren't okay?

I'm all for opening multiple ways to obtain each and every legendary in the game. Including their skins.

 

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @"Carlin Sanders.3587" said:

> > Perfected envoy is the reward for going out of your comfort zone and actually raiding. otherwise you have a functionally similar set of armor you can earn in both WvW and PvP. 'nuff said.

>

> Why should there be a reward for raiding if you don't enjoy raiding? What's the benefit in rewarding players for not enjoying their time in the game?

Obviously it's to promote Not Having Fun in the game. Once players will get used to it, they will no longer demand that devs should actually do something that's nice and fun, for a change.

 

 

[Lunateric.3708]

Envoy skins should remain exclusive to raids just like Warbringer and the tentacle chest armor should remain exclusive to WvW. I don't want everything to be obtainable everywhere, I like mode exclusive rewards and I think the devs do a great job making these exclusive rewards a pure e-brag thing and not required to do X activity.

[Sir Alymer.3406]

> @Astralporing.1957 said:

> > @"Sir Alymer.3406" said:

> > The skin is a prestigious item for accomplishing raids pretty thoroughly.

> Having one set myself, i can only laugh at you. The only reason why it's not that common is because raids are a content type hugely unappealing to a majority of the community. Well, that and the gold cost.

 

Having found a community of people willing to help me through raids that publicly advertises on r/guildwars2, I've already made my first steps towards crafting my legendary armor by beating all three original raid wings. I don't enjoy wvw, I don't believe I deserve a way to get the illustrious mistward triumphant armor or whatever it's called. I don't do guild missions, so I don't believe I deserve the new guild armor that came with Heart of Thorns. Open world content is dreadfully easy compared to even dungeons which have gotten even easier thanks to the power creep from both expansions. Legendary armor isn't uncommon if you spend any amount of time within the Aerodome or the mistlock sanctuary. There are plenty of people either going for it, have at least one full set of it, or have it all. They don't use skin of it because, let's be fair, a lot of people don't care for how it looks especially the medium armor.

 

> @Umut.5471 said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @Umut.5471 said:

> > > Raids are limited to 10 coordinated people, we can't do it with random people successfully. We don't have enough people to do it.

> > > I can just join a WvW squad and farm my Legendary Armor this way. But without the skin, it's not important for me. I can just use any other ascended armor.

> >

> > You just answered why. One requires 10 coordinated people, the other is a matter of brain-dead farm.

> >

> > > Legendary skins shouldn't be locked to raids which aren't available for many people.

> >

> > And the WvW version is?

>

> What if we don't like to do instanced raid content? Or don't have the numbers to do it? They promised us legendary armors for WvW and sPvP.

> I want to see those legendary armors, that's all. Legendary armor = Armor with legendary skin.

> Raid community is hella toxic, I can't believe what you guys are saying here. And you are suggesting me to form a party with toxic players like that.

>

 

Raids are supposed to be challenging endgame content neither you nor anyone else here breezes through. They are what the original set of 8 dungeons were intended to be before everyone put them on farm. And the community isn't toxic. They don't want to carry people through. People who don't want to put forth the same effort they do don't really deserve the boss kill. Raiders and to an extent, people who do T4 fractals, don't want to deal with your open world build that doesn't deal comparable damage or provide decent buffs, doesn't give out good cc and actually gets in the way of mechanics. There are resources out there for you and anyone here to learn how to do raids and fractals with patient people, just be prepared to change your build around or play a few extra classes. There's also just ducking out of all of that, buying a com tag, and just starting your own raid groups with likeminded people. This is the place where everyone

 

Legendary equipment is meant to be a proof of mastery over content be it specifically raids, open world, wvw, sPvP, or fractals or some combination of all of them. Legendary armor in raids represents that mastery over that content just like the legendary backpack and mistward armor and weapons do for WvW or the ascension does for PvP.