Would you accept thief in your raid group?

[thrag.9740]

> @apharma.3741 said:

> So now we are moving the discussion onto one of the few places it matters, 1 orb KC?

Bro, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I cant do it anymore. See:

> @thrag.9740 said:

> Dps roles are highly situational, such a broad question doesn't really make sense.

and

> @thrag.9740 said:

> As far as enrage timers, it depends what your group is trying to do.

 

 

[Faaris.8013]

> @Mellodia.7534 said:

> I'm not sure about DPS or whatever, but I don't see a point in being discriminatory against a person who likes to play a specific class. To me it's the more the merrier scenario, some extra damage is better than none at all. I prefer to see it optimistically, some people just take games WAY too seriously and become these chauvinistic snobbos just because you spent points wrong or don't have a specific build that's out on the internet or God knows what else. I'm here to chill out, level myself at my own pace, and I welcome all with open arms because we're all different and I'm cool with that. Just don't be a damned preacher and all is gravy ;D

 

You clearly haven't been in the carrying part of the group often. I don't mind carrying from time to time, even non-guild-members. After a while, it becomes tedious though, and you wonder why the berserker does slightly more damage than the healer. It's not about being too serious, it's just not fun to struggle at encounters that are generally easy, simply because people don't live up to their classes potential, not even close. For many players, and I include myself here, a chill out T4 run or raid is one where you don't have to struggle unneccessarily.

 

Back to topic, I feel like my thief does not contribute enough to raids compared to other classes, that's why I adjust and learn other classes that allow a smoother raiding experience. Just as I trait for staff at T4 fractals most of the time and use it instead of my favourite weapon set: double pistols. It would just be not fair to the other group members to fight 20 mobs with a single target weapon.

[apharma.3741]

> @thrag.9740 said:

> > @apharma.3741 said:

> > So now we are moving the discussion onto one of the few places it matters, 1 orb KC?

> Bro, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I cant do it anymore. See:

> > @thrag.9740 said:

> > Dps roles are highly situational, such a broad question doesn't really make sense.

> and

> > @thrag.9740 said:

> > As far as enrage timers, it depends what your group is trying to do.

>

>

 

Likewise, I am saying that for most of the time it doesn’t matter or can you honestly come up with more than 3 scenarios in any regular raid group where taking a DD over a weaver will cause a fail because right now I only see an elitist coming up with excuses. Excuses that are very niche to say the least.

 

The question I thought was pretty simple, would you take a thief into your raid group. I have yet to see anyone put a valid reason why they would exclude a thief from a regular raid group, you know where it would cause a raid wipe.

 

“We have added new builds in the updated benchmarks. Remember, don't be a class nazi and have fun.“ -qT

[Shirlias.8104]

> @Faaris.8013 said:

> Back to topic, I feel like my thief does not contribute enough to raids compared to other classes, that's why I adjust and learn other classes that allow a smoother raiding experience. Just as I trait for staff at T4 fractals most of the time and use it instead of my favourite weapon set: double pistols. It would just be not fair to the other group members to fight 20 mobs with a single target weapon.

 

Unfortunately, you are damn right ( talking about t4, i bring S + P/P ).

[Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489]

I never lead a raid group, but I don't really mind what anyone brings. I normally run condi mirage, occasionally power dragonhunter, and when it's called for, my magi druid gets to show her face. I am pretty consistently in the top 3 dps places (mostly in the number 1 spot actually) when I'm on my mirage. When I'm on my power dh I'm usually in top 3, even though my dh does generally more damage than my mirage.

 

We allowed a scourge to join for VG, and he did ok - as in he didn't die, he was vocal, he gave constructive feedback and he used portals to help with greens and to do quick resses. His dps was 3k and after we got the kill he said he was full Magi. Go figure. Did that one player who did abysmal dps stop us from clearing? No. Did that one player with abysmal dps cause us to get a win in fewer tries? Possibly, as he actually saved our tank on a few occassions with portal resses and with portaling to a few greens that would have been missed otherwise. Is Magi scourge a viable build? I don't think so.

 

Likewise, if a thief know what they're doing and bring something to the team, I see no reason what so ever as not to bring them. But also, my raiding experience is with mostly a semi-static raid group (whoever is online for our raid events are allowed to join) and we fill with whatever is missing from lfg. If we need 1 chrono to fill and a thief joins then that's a kick - because it's not what we wanted.

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"thrag.9740" said:

> > @apharma.3741 said:

> > > @thrag.9740 said:

> > > > @apharma.3741 said:

> > > > > @thrag.9740 said:

> > > > > > @apharma.3741 said:

> > > > > > > @Jeknar.6184 said:

> > > > > > > > @Feanor.2358 said:

> > > > > > > > I got exactly the same question regarding a fractal party yesterday. I'm going to answer in the same way - every class is OK, as long as you do comparable dps.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Comparable DPS to the top meta classes? Then basically you are saying no because these builds are meta for a reason: Because they do the most DPS.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-11-07-17/

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I wasn’t aware that a 4K difference in potential max dps was so raid critical now we have 5 dps spots. I guess I had best request 5 weaver only runs else we might fail the extremely tight enrage timers.

> > > > >

> > > > > It sounds like you believe the 5 dps slots means the party has more dps now. I just want to clear up possible misconceptions, total group dps is lower now, because we no longer have grace of the land buff. Despite having more dps slots now, we have less total dps. The dps gain of swapping 2 cps to 1 bs + dps is less than the loss from everyone losing gotl.

> > > > >

> > > > > As far as enrage timers, it depends what your group is trying to do. Stand still xera? Not the easiest dps check to clear.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You’re still not going to hit enrage timers even with the slight loss of dps from losing GotL. Raids had plenty of wiggle room for those who could find their backsides with one hand.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sloth kill post GotL nerf end group dps from a competent group 145k

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Sloth kill before GotL nerf end group dps from a competent group 135k

> > > >

> > > > The enrage timer isn’t close to being tight, one of those eles could go and play staff DD and pull similar numbers and as we can see one group did 10k less damage than the other yet it was a comfortable kill. Even if you were running harrier druids and lost another 10k it would be extremely comfortable so your comment is probably not entirely correct about meta comps doing less damage, on the face of it the GotL change is looking about the same.

> > > >

> > > > Remember what qT put at the start of their benchmarks? Don’t be a class kitten.

> > > I think you had trouble reading what I said, so I will repeat myself. It depends what you want to do. Enrage timers are not the main restriction of dps, it is kill method. Stand still xera vs move strat, kc stay in for bombs vs go out for bombs, xera stand still, number of floor phases at vg, cairn stand still (not that many groups do this lol). These choices are what determine how much dps you need, almost no real strategy plans to hit enrage timer. The fact that enrage timers are irrelevant, is also irrelevant.

> > >

> > > Qt can say whatever they want about pugging, because qt doesn't pug.

> >

> > Again, using a power DD that has a max golem dps of 29.8k vs a weaver doing 33.9k isn’t going to make the difference between doing different strats as if you are playing with decent to good players the raid group dps will be high enough for both. We aren’t even considering how much easier it is to mess up on weaver vs DD and how the DD will likely do the exact same damage as the weavers in most raid groups.

> >

> > The videos were to show that raid group DPS has not changed substantially that it is worth being an elitist over the classes for DPS. If a group fails a strategy it isn’t because of the classes they brought (within reason) but because they people playing the classes didn’t bring their A game.

>

> I don't know if your being deceptive because your ignorant, or because you think I have never raided before. Either way, it hurts your argument. Weaver burst vs power dd burst is not even close. Wana do 1 orb kc? Go try it with thief, try it with weaver. Let me know how it goes. If all you want to do is get a 5 orb kill, run w/e you want. Like I said, again and again, it depends what you want to do.

>

> Since you like videos so much, here is a video of a weaver doing an opening burst of 60k

>

>

> Can power dd do that? No? Well I guess power dd wouldnt be good for 1 orb kc. At the same time, weaver wont hit 60k opening on a small hit box. Its almost like classes have differences, and if you want to accomplish specific goals you might need specific builds.

 

 

Idk if you’ve done one orb kc yourself, but coming from someone that does it weekly: you don’t need the full burst from 5-6 weavers in order to pass the dps check. The same goes for xera in mid and so on.

 

Under the assumption that you have an experienced group of somewhat high skill, you’ll be fine replacing a weaver(or whatever is best in slot) or two with something that does less dps. I wouldn’t say the same is applicable to pugs, but since they generally prioritise safety over speed it doesn’t really matter anyway.