Pay to win

[Loop.8106]

In before we have a repeat of the PvP forums post HoT I wanna make this thread (Discussion?) to ask you to give them a few weeks.

Some specs will likely be over the top, some may likely never see the light of day. Some specs might be perfectly balanced and some may just be niche.

 

So can we give them a few weeks to balance things out before we start crying pay to win or asking for buffs?

Thanks!

[Serinetempest.9027]

> @Loop.8106 said:

> In before we have a repeat of the PvP forums post HoT I wanna make this thread (Discussion?) to ask you to give them a few weeks.

> Some specs will likely be over the top, some may likely never see the light of day. Some specs might be perfectly balanced and some may just be niche.

>

> So can we give them a few weeks to balance things out before we start crying pay to win or asking for buffs?

> Thanks!

 

How is this pay to win. Pay to win for me is paying for skills with cash that can be better then the average person

[Exedore.6320]

"Pay to win" as in you have to buy the expansion because it's elite specializations are better than everything else.

 

I don't think you'll see that with PoF the way you did with HoT. HoT will probably still continue to dominate.

[Cosbuster.4379]

Internet connections are "pay to win". I mean, if you don't pay for one you can't play and thus can't win.

[chibi.2537]

You could say it's pay to win to some extent but not really. It's true that HoT elites are more in the meta (or over all played) than vanilla ones but I only have base game and power/survival ranger still kicks ass (I started playing not a week ago after maybe 5 months break and I'm almost in silver 3 slmost in gold 1). So, no, I personally wouldn't say it's pay to win. Pay to win is reserved for all those korean MMORPGs.

[Omcrazy.4756]

Yup, core builds are still viable for a lot of classes. Core Guardian radiant hammer is in a good spot. I've also seen some symbolic f2p variants that are as effective or nearly so to the DH version.

 

Might be that the meta revolves around elite specs, but sometimes the meta builds aren't even the best for mid-tier play as they usually are meta because of a high skill ceiling which usually comes with a low skill floor. I do think Anet still has some balancing to do in this regards.

 

And I agree with OP. New classes/builds/etc always start off OP (and sometimes underpowered) as they try to tweak balance in real time. Don't need to immediately start crying P2W, give them time to balance.

[narcx.3570]

Renegade: Anet is proud to announce the first ever Pay to Lose class...!

[LanfearShadowflame.3189]

I always love the pay to win complaints. Obviously those people have never played an _actual_ pay to win game (I have, it blows, just sayin').

 

Beyond that, I always have to wonder... if simply buying the new elites = win...how do those people still lose? Mild logic.

[Ayrilana.1396]

For those that play (or played) other MMO's, has there ever been an expansion which **couldn't** be considered P2W in some sense?

[Ninjion.6804]

> @Loop.8106 said:

> In before we have a repeat of the PvP forums post HoT I wanna make this thread (Discussion?) to ask you to give them a few weeks.

> Some specs will likely be over the top, some may likely never see the light of day. Some specs might be perfectly balanced and some may just be niche.

>

> So can we give them a few weeks to balance things out before we start crying pay to win or asking for buffs?

> Thanks!

 

In games like WoW, you can't even get your character to max level without buying the most recent expansion, so the precedent in the MMO genre is that the most recent expansion is a must-buy to remain competitive. GW2 is actually very generous in that regard because you only need to buy one of the expansions to have a set of elite specs that makes you competitive.

 

Should PoF elite specs be stronger than HoT elite specs or vice versa? No. Having only one expansion should be enough for a player to compete in Pvp/Wvw at an elite level and have access to some meta builds. Having both expansions just opens up more variety and different ways to play, but we shouldn't see power creep from expansion to expansion.

[ibThuggin.1758]

After experiencing APB:Reloaded this game isn't anywhere close to pay to win. Pay to unlock new specs and content, but that's any expansion ever made in an MMORPG.

[Saiyan.1704]

Guess it was a matter of time.. new thread every expansion release.

 

By this thread's logic, every MMORPG expansion in existence *is* P2W... except in GW2 you can play a non expansion build and still perform as an above average player... but it's still p2w right? I guess?

 

Such a farcical thread.

[Loop.8106]

> @Saiyan.1704 said:

> Guess it was a matter of time.. new thread every expansion release.

>

> By this thread's logic, every MMORPG expansion in existence *is* P2W... except in GW2 you can play a non expansion build and still perform as an above average player... but it's still p2w right? I guess?

>

> Such a farcical thread.

 

That's what Im trying to say, I want to avoid these threads to pop up. I may not have gotten my point across the way I wanted it to, bad things about not being a native speaker.

I want people to let things calm down before the start screaming for nerfes or naming something pay to win.

[Saiyan.1704]

> @Loop.8106 said:

> > @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > Guess it was a matter of time.. new thread every expansion release.

> >

> > By this thread's logic, every MMORPG expansion in existence *is* P2W... except in GW2 you can play a non expansion build and still perform as an above average player... but it's still p2w right? I guess?

> >

> > Such a farcical thread.

>

> That's what Im trying to say, I want to avoid these threads to pop up. I may not have gotten my point across the way I wanted it to, bad things about not being a native speaker.

> I want people to let things calm down before the start screaming for nerfes or naming something pay to win.

 

If that was your intentions then you should not have that "Pay to Win" title on the thread. It's bait for inquiring these types of discussions as *so many* people feel it's a Pay to Win game.

 

A lot of players are simply not dedicated to be successful on their non expansion builds.

[Nix.3152]

if you wanna compete in pvp you have to run elite specs. thats a fact. i came back after a long break(i quit playing with HOT release). now trying pvp with core builds it feels like you are handicapped. in case of gw2 "paytowin" means that you have to run elite specs if you wanna win . and to run them you have to pay. it is perfectly fine for me that you have to pay for more pve stuff. but pvp should be fair for everyone. also i think that elite specs are overtuned in general. even if they would be free for everyone it wont do any good for pvp anyway.

PS. as an engineer player i think that scrapper is a discrace to engi profession. it looks like you are playing warrior or guardian. facetank melee build. does not fit engi playstyle at all. same with holosmith. another melee focused spec. maybe it will be dps oriented, not bunker like scrapper but you will be waving swords around once again. FeelsBadMan

[Hybarf Tics.2048]

Pay to win elsewhere maybe, here completely not. :o

[Nix.3152]

make core builds somewhat equal to elite specs and noone will complain about "paytowin"

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > @Loop.8106 said:

> > > @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > > Guess it was a matter of time.. new thread every expansion release.

> > >

> > > By this thread's logic, every MMORPG expansion in existence *is* P2W... except in GW2 you can play a non expansion build and still perform as an above average player... but it's still p2w right? I guess?

> > >

> > > Such a farcical thread.

> >

> > That's what Im trying to say, I want to avoid these threads to pop up. I may not have gotten my point across the way I wanted it to, bad things about not being a native speaker.

> > I want people to let things calm down before the start screaming for nerfes or naming something pay to win.

>

> If that was your intentions then you should not have that "Pay to Win" title on the thread. It's bait for inquiring these types of discussions as *so many* people feel it's a Pay to Win game.

>

> A lot of players are simply not dedicated to be successful on their non expansion builds.

 

well you could hav read the post right ?

[K THEN.5162]

Elementalist: Fresh Air

Necromancer: Axe/Warhorn Staff Power or Scepter Condi

Mesmer: Pu Condi or Burst Shatter Mesmer

Engineer: Pistol/Pistol condi

Thief: Sword/Dagger Power or Dagger/Dagger one shot

Ranger: Greatsword/Longbow Power Survival or 1 shot opening strike (also known as Become the Bear 1-shot in WvW)

Guardian: Burn Guard or Radiant Hammer

Warrior: Greatsword Mace/Shield

Heck even Revenant: Mallyx/Jallis Condi Rev

 

These are just a fraction of incredibly viable core builds our community has come up with with many more probably out there. Even though I own HoT, I personally find myself preferring many core builds such as maining core mesmer, loving the raidiant hammer gameplay and durdling around with the become the bear ranger in WvW. Despite my builds lacking the "elite spec" in many of my pvp skirmishes I've never found myself completely outclassed by an opponent using an elite spec themselves, even in the fights I've lost. Because of this, I personally believe that while an elite spec gives you more options when theory crafting, you are by no means at a disadvantage when fighting without one as long as you take the time to learn your core build's combos and limits.

[choovanski.5462]

core warrior is better than berserker right now lol

[Majirah.5089]

> @Nix.3152 said:

> if you wanna compete in pvp you have to run elite specs. thats a fact. i came back after a long break(i quit playing with HOT release). now trying pvp with core builds it feels like you are handicapped. in case of gw2 "paytowin" means that you have to run elite specs if you wanna win . and to run them you have to pay. it is perfectly fine for me that you have to pay for more pve stuff. but pvp should be fair for everyone. also i think that elite specs are overtuned in general. even if they would be free for everyone it wont do any good for pvp anyway.

> PS. as an engineer player i think that scrapper is a discrace to engi profession. it looks like you are playing warrior or guardian. facetank melee build. does not fit engi playstyle at all. same with holosmith. another melee focused spec. maybe it will be dps oriented, not bunker like scrapper but you will be waving swords around once again. FeelsBadMan

 

I disagree with this on two points:

 

1. You don't need elite specs to win. I've been playing core thief sword dagger a lot and have a higher win rate than when I play dagger pistol daredevil. Sure some of that has to do with teammates, but the fact is I have a greater than 50% win rate with that spec. I also have a greater than 50% win rate on core burn guardian. I also have a greater than 50% win rate on core condi engineer. You don't NEED elite specs to win. Elite specs may be optimal sure, but not to the point that others can't compete.

 

2. Even if you did it's still not pay to win. It's an expansion. You pay to play what it offers. It would be like saying that in other MMOs that have level cap expansions the people who buy the expansion and thus access higher levels are pay to win. Nope. Pay to play.

[Nowaki.2136]

There is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference between pay to win and buy to play, this is buy to play.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > @Loop.8106 said:

> > > @Saiyan.1704 said:

> > > Guess it was a matter of time.. new thread every expansion release.

> > >

> > > By this thread's logic, every MMORPG expansion in existence *is* P2W... except in GW2 you can play a non expansion build and still perform as an above average player... but it's still p2w right? I guess?

> > >

> > > Such a farcical thread.

> >

> > That's what Im trying to say, I want to avoid these threads to pop up. I may not have gotten my point across the way I wanted it to, bad things about not being a native speaker.

> > I want people to let things calm down before the start screaming for nerfes or naming something pay to win.

>

> If that was your intentions then you should not have that "Pay to Win" title on the thread. It's bait for inquiring these types of discussions as *so many* people feel it's a Pay to Win game.

>

> A lot of players are simply not dedicated to be successful on their non expansion builds.

 

this is funny.

[Ajax of Telamona.6974]

My question is one: Why now? Anet said that patches never apply during season and yet here we are with new expansion. Now let say ok with expansion. Why the fcking elites and skills need to apply on this season. is it so difficult to wait 2 weeks? ffs

[Faux Play.6104]

> @Loop.8106 said:

> In before we have a repeat of the PvP forums post HoT I wanna make this thread (Discussion?) to ask you to give them a few weeks.

> Some specs will likely be over the top, some may likely never see the light of day. Some specs might be perfectly balanced and some may just be niche.

>

> So can we give them a few weeks to balance things out before we start crying pay to win or asking for buffs?

> Thanks!

 

Compare it to any other form of entertainment. How many dollars per hour of entertainment will you get? Games have to evolve or people will stop playing them for the latest new thing.