Feanor.2358 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > For a short amount of time. People leave when there is nothing left to do. Maybe take a look at WoWs population after LFR. > > > > Raiders have claimed to me, in this very thread, that they would continue to raid even after having acquired the Envoy armor. > > > > Also, there is no "WoW's population after LFR," that's just a meme. WoW's population did not change as any sort of result of LFR or other shifts towards convenience, they shifted the same as ANY game does over time, in reaction to market forces, other options in the marketplace, and general player burnout. They would be doing a LOT worse off without LFR. > Millions of people play versions of WoW before easy mode raids, before LFR and all the other stuff they added to make sure everyone saw as much content as possible. This isn't just players moving on with the game, this is millions of players preferring older versions of the _same game_. You've never acknowledged this fact once. > > > So they're ruined then. ANet's devalued the experience and made all Envoy armor worthless. > > > > So what is there to lose my making them a little bit moreso? > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > Nope. Raids are definitely easier than they were even a year ago. That's for a variety of reasons. > > > > According to Feanor this isn’t true. > > > > Feanor: Making a token of achievement available through generic grind. That robs all the meaning and value from it, effectively nullifying the achievement. How can that be respectful to the achievement or those who did it? > > > > Me: Doesn’t this happen naturally with time anyways? > > > > Feanor: No. > > > > Or, to elaborate a bit, it does happen in games with gear treadmill where the powercreep trivializes the challenge. Since GW2 does not have this, it doesn't happen here. > Vale Guardian is still mostly the exact same fight as he was back in 2015. It's just the raiding community has gotten eons better at the game. By and large they've mastered it. Which > something that's difficult to learn, is punishing and has a high chance of failure but can be mastered is exactly what I want from raid content. Mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned. > > Vale Guardian is pretty much the exact same fight as it was back on release. But the raid community have collectively gotten eons better at the game than when Vale Guardian was released. People who have learned to beat him, have learned to beat him with more ease than people who have not. Funny that! You guys are acting like you caught me in some gotcha when that's just an inevitable part of human intelligence to get better with practice. It doesn't mean the fight has gotten any easier. It means the raiders have gotten better. But host a VG for non-raiders and see how easy it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > For a short amount of time. People leave when there is nothing left to do. Maybe take a look at WoWs population after LFR. > > > > > > Raiders have claimed to me, in this very thread, that they would continue to raid even after having acquired the Envoy armor. > > > > > > Also, there is no "WoW's population after LFR," that's just a meme. WoW's population did not change as any sort of result of LFR or other shifts towards convenience, they shifted the same as ANY game does over time, in reaction to market forces, other options in the marketplace, and general player burnout. They would be doing a LOT worse off without LFR. > > Millions of people play versions of WoW before easy mode raids, before LFR and all the other stuff they added to make sure everyone saw as much content as possible. This isn't just players moving on with the game, this is millions of players preferring older versions of the _same game_. You've never acknowledged this fact once. > > > > > So they're ruined then. ANet's devalued the experience and made all Envoy armor worthless. > > > > > > So what is there to lose my making them a little bit moreso? > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > Nope. Raids are definitely easier than they were even a year ago. That's for a variety of reasons. > > > > > > According to Feanor this isn’t true. > > > > > > Feanor: Making a token of achievement available through generic grind. That robs all the meaning and value from it, effectively nullifying the achievement. How can that be respectful to the achievement or those who did it? > > > > > > Me: Doesn’t this happen naturally with time anyways? > > > > > > Feanor: No. > > > > > > Or, to elaborate a bit, it does happen in games with gear treadmill where the powercreep trivializes the challenge. Since GW2 does not have this, it doesn't happen here. > > Vale Guardian is still mostly the exact same fight as he was back in 2015. It's just the raiding community has gotten eons better at the game. By and large they've mastered it. Which > > something that's difficult to learn, is punishing and has a high chance of failure but can be mastered is exactly what I want from raid content. Mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned. > > > > Vale Guardian is pretty much the exact same fight as it was back on release. But the raid community have collectively gotten eons better at the game than when Vale Guardian was released. People who have learned to beat him, have learned to beat him with more ease than people who have not. Funny that! You guys are acting like you caught me in some gotcha when that's just an inevitable part of human intelligence to get better with practice. > > It doesn't mean the fight has gotten any easier. It means the raiders have gotten better. But host a VG for non-raiders and see how easy it will be. That's exactly what I'm saying in so many words. It's funny how they're acting like this is some kind of gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > Yes, some people would have been complaining about exclusive skins, but it wouldn't have been any bigger than all similar complains for all the previous contents with unique skins. It would never have reached the levels it got to now. > > Judging by who made half the posts in this thread, and how they'd still post if it was a backpack, I doubt that it would've never reached the "levels" it got to now. And by "levels" I mean threads like this one. If you haven't noticed it's 5-6 people posting on the official forums about this subject over and over. There is no discussion about it on reddit, or any other media, this is an "issue" seen by a handful of people on the official forums and nothing more. A few of the people continue to post, but it's always _new_ people that bring the case up, not the old ones (personally i haven't started a single thread about it). They just give up on arguing after few pages. And no, there was no such example for all the previous "exclusive skin" cases. You got one-two threads of complain, few pages tops, and then the topic dried out and never resurfaced. I seriously doubt Ohoni alone would change that. I do know that personally i would not have put so much energy in these discussions if raids were simply treated the same as other side contents, and legendary armor (and legendary-tier skin) was not an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > Yes, some people would have been complaining about exclusive skins, but it wouldn't have been any bigger than all similar complains for all the previous contents with unique skins. It would never have reached the levels it got to now. > > > > Judging by who made half the posts in this thread, and how they'd still post if it was a backpack, I doubt that it would've never reached the "levels" it got to now. And by "levels" I mean threads like this one. If you haven't noticed it's 5-6 people posting on the official forums about this subject over and over. There is no discussion about it on reddit, or any other media, this is an "issue" seen by a handful of people on the official forums and nothing more. > A few of the people continue to post, but it's always _new_ people that bring the case up, not the old ones (personally i haven't started a single thread about it). They just give up on arguing after few pages. And no, there was no such example for all the previous "exclusive skin" cases. You got one-two threads of complain, few pages tops, and then the topic dried out and never resurfaced. > > I seriously doubt Ohoni alone would change that. I do know that personally i would not have put so much energy in these discussions if raids were simply treated the same as other side contents, and legendary armor (and legendary-tier skin) was not an issue. > I don't mean this in a negative way but arguing with him is fun in seeing his mental gymnastics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > A few of the people continue to post, but it's always _new_ people that bring the case up, not the old ones (personally i haven't started a single thread about it). They just give up on arguing after few pages. And no, there was no such example for all the previous "exclusive skin" cases. You got one-two threads of complain, few pages tops, and then the topic dried out and never resurfaced. > > I seriously doubt Ohoni alone would change that. I do know that personally i would not have put so much energy in these discussions if raids were simply treated the same as other side contents, and legendary armor (and legendary-tier skin) was not an issue. > It's always new people that bring it up and then disappear as the next 70 pages are with the same old people arguing. Still, don't make this "issue" larger than it actually is. There were also threads about making an easy mode for Dungeons back in the day like those threads I posted : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/545993/#Comment_545993 There are way more, that's only a sample, unfortunately there was no trigger happy merge back then or those threads could combine in a much larger one. Probably because the developers wanted to follow those and see what arguments were brought up, unlike this one which they probably merged it since everything that is being said now, has been said 50 pages ago and we go in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > A few of the people continue to post, but it's always _new_ people that bring the case up, not the old ones (personally i haven't started a single thread about it). They just give up on arguing after few pages. And no, there was no such example for all the previous "exclusive skin" cases. You got one-two threads of complain, few pages tops, and then the topic dried out and never resurfaced. > > > > I seriously doubt Ohoni alone would change that. I do know that personally i would not have put so much energy in these discussions if raids were simply treated the same as other side contents, and legendary armor (and legendary-tier skin) was not an issue. > > > > It's always new people that bring it up and then disappear as the next 70 pages are with the same old people arguing. Still, don't make this "issue" larger than it actually is. There were also threads about making an easy mode for Dungeons back in the day like those threads I posted : > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/545993/#Comment_545993 > There are way more, that's only a sample, unfortunately there was no trigger happy merge back then or those threads could combine in a much larger one. And if you don't remember, dungeons _got_ nerfed later on. It wasn't just a case of scaling rework or better gear/power creep (although that helped too). Also, those threads weren't all that common then. There was a number of them, but it wasn't to the level when there was at least one active all the time. It wasn't even close to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > And if you don't remember, dungeons _got_ nerfed later on. It wasn't just a case of scaling rework or better gear/power creep (although that helped too). > Also, those threads weren't all that common then. There was a number of them, but it wasn't to the level when there was at least one active all the time. It wasn't even close to that. I remember dungeons getting buffed in difficulty, not nerfed, when Arenanet decided to remove waypointing when your team was in combat, to combat death rushing. Which we can all agree was a silly tactic. Other than that, when was Giganticus Lupicus nerfed? Only big dungeon boss nerf I remember was Simin and that happened much much later. I wouldn't call those threads uncommon when there are multiple ones, 2 or 3, sometimes as many as 5 on each page of the dungeons sub-forum. Dungeon extreme difficulty was in reality a more common topic than easy mode for Raids, by a long shot. Just because we have certain individuals (on both sides) now that can talk in circles for 70 pages doesn't make the topic itself "common". Not the least bit, there were more individual posters posting about dungeon difficulty that there are posting about Raid difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > I think you've made perfectly clear that *you* don't, nothing more. > > > > > > > > I'm not going to allow you to get away with these extremely vague accusations. Moving the goalposts is where when you present an argument (or demand for proof), someone answers it, and you retroactively change said argument so the answer doesn't apply anymore. It's one of those fallacies that allows the user to (incorrectly) trick themselves into thinking they don't ever have to be wrong, which is what you're doing. > > > > > > > > It's also what you did. You said someone's suggestion had no pros, I listed some pros, you say they weren't pros, I saw that's because you're only thinking of yourself. > > > > > > > > And then you hit me with this: > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said: > > > > > > So ohoni, i understand those aren't positives for you but you're not the center of the world. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and neither are you. Raiders already seem to be mostly fine with how raids are now, and if there are things they'd like changed, I mostly support that, but right now we're talking about the people for whom raids do NOT currently work, and making the mode more fun for *those* players. The changes I advocate for are in the service of that goal. I do not expect existing raiders to benefit significantly from those changes, but that is not the point of them. > > > > > > > > That's just drawing a big ??? for me there. > > > > > > The more I read these comments,the more I wonder if putting Legendary Envoy armor behind Raids was a good idea. Had they not thrown in the armor would many of us even be discussing any of this right now? Hypothetically speaking of course. > > > > It was a positively horrible idea to do what they did.. and it is about the only thing that is bringing in new blood to the game mode. > > > > Thankfully they had a bout of common sense and put in alternate paths to Legendary Armor. > > I honestly don’t think people wouldn’t be complaining nearly as much, if they only kept the current raid skins you find now like the pieces of Dhuum’s armor, Matthias staff etc. > > I mean Raids were designed to give people the challenge, no? That’s what the driving factor was, yes? Scripted Encounters can never truly maintain challenge, this is why trying to make PvE Content like Raids is a failure from the get go, unless the game is built from the group up to provide this kind of content, which GW2 was not. With any kind of scripted content, once the mechanics are figured out they become a grind. The only Challenge Raids bring is dealing with 9 other people who may or may not know what they are doing. So, in short, it does not provide challenge from the content itself, it just kills PUG's and breeds toxic elitism as everyone doing raids does not want challenge anymore they want a fast grind of content, speed clears and 100% completion. Now for me, I have always understood that skins were often content exclusive. That has been the nature of the game, but you know, games evolve, and if they can change one way, they can change another, so even trying to cling to exclusive skins for content is not really worthwhile at this point. But I don't really care that much for the skins as they are, so it's not an issue for me. In fact, I think they Evony is awfully ugly. With that said, it was a horrible idea to put legendary Armor behind Raids as this bottlenecks the the end game, moving away from several game styles that provided equal yet unique rewards, to One game Style that provided the best rewards. They started down this bad direction path with Fractals, but they at least had the awareness to put in alternate paths to Ascended as opposed to them just being drops in Fractals, but, that still gave fractals the best gear drops in the game, till they _sorta-kinda_ branched off on that. But this whole thing where they lock the best tier of gear behind a raid, that's going to hurt them, quite a bit to be honest, as while many players may not care about raids, in a game like GW2 a lot of them at least like the idea of being able to progress towards long goals like Legendary Armor and Gear, and with raid locking these things that kills the goal before they even start on it. Which will demoralize their casual base, and there is no question about this. As such, I would bet a large portion of the current community is already looking for another game to replace GW2 for them, but with poor lunches by games like Bless and many other really exciting MMO's being a few years off, no doubt most of the people already miffed about this have stopped spending money, hence the current change in how the store works, and have been looking at other games, with that said, BDO could have been beyond great if their UI was better. So, their move to put in this content, and then lock legendary armor behind it.. oh.. that's hurting them and it's gonna hurt them a lot more as time goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? Sure..I can get you a Ferrari for 10K, what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap, can even get you a 30 day Warranty on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfy.8025 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Ok. Could the guys who want easy mode explain to me how the rewards would differ? Would easy mode rewards include LIs? Because then you could cheese your way into harder modes. Also if it offered the same rewards, why would you bother doing the harder content ever? If the rewards would differ, then how? How do you penalize the easy mode/reward the hard mode? Adding easy mode on W5 and others would in my mind mean that doing it normal/hard is pointless.. Why bother if I'd get the same amount of crystals/kp weekly? Then even if I wanted the harder content, I just cheat myself inside with kp from easy mode and annoy my group? The only way to practise something hard is to practise it on the hard difficulty or - the only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter opponent. So please do elaborate on those things and I may be persuaded to join the bandwagon in requiring easy/hard mode. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap. Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katz.8376 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? https://www.factoryfive.com/gtm-supercar/ it's not a Ferrari, but it still looks pretty darn hot. enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap. > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply. Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your _Ferrari_ for one tenth the cost of a real one , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do. So.. what is your problem with letting them have that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"katz.8376" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > https://www.factoryfive.com/gtm-supercar/ > > it's not a Ferrari, but it still looks pretty darn hot. enjoy! Sooo, let me get this straight... instead of a complete product, which you can sit in and drive directly you're offering me a load of spare parts with no engine and poor material quality. Okay, let's upgrade the analogy from a screenshot of the UI Icon to a set of exotic armor an screenshots of the Envoy. Without the chest piece. Delivered separately, some assembly required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Wolfy.8025" said: > Ok. Could the guys who want easy mode explain to me how the rewards would differ? Would easy mode rewards include LIs? Because then you could cheese your way into harder modes. Also if it offered the same rewards, why would you bother doing the harder content ever? > If the rewards would differ, then how? How do you penalize the easy mode/reward the hard mode? Adding easy mode on W5 and others would in my mind mean that doing it normal/hard is pointless.. Why bother if I'd get the same amount of crystals/kp weekly? Then even if I wanted the harder content, I just cheat myself inside with kp from easy mode and annoy my group? The only way to practise something hard is to practise it on the hard difficulty or - the only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter opponent. So please do elaborate on those things and I may be persuaded to join the bandwagon in requiring easy/hard mode. Thanks If they did Tiers of raids, I would rather it be done like fractals, the same content, with no changes to the mechanics themselves, just made easier: IE: Longer Timers, Mobs have Less HP do less Damage, Effects do less Damage and are not as punitive. Equally so, the rewards could also be like fractals.. you get the same rewards, just to a lesser degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap. > > > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply. > > Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your Ferrari for 10K , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do. > > So.. what is your problem with letting them have that? Possibly because he is approaching it from a very holier-than-thou and entitled angle. If his approach was less ostentatious perhaps fewer people would be annoyed with his arguments and many would be more accomodating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"katz.8376" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > > > https://www.factoryfive.com/gtm-supercar/ > > > > it's not a Ferrari, but it still looks pretty darn hot. enjoy! > > Sooo, let me get this straight... instead of a complete product, which you can sit in and drive directly you're offering me a load of spare parts with no engine and poor material quality. Okay, let's upgrade the analogy from a screenshot of the UI Icon to a set of exotic armor an screenshots of the Envoy. Without the chest piece. Delivered separately, some assembly required. Remove the Raid requirement from the Existing Legendary Armor Journey and **Sold**! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katz.8376 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"katz.8376" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > > > https://www.factoryfive.com/gtm-supercar/ > > > > it's not a Ferrari, but it still looks pretty darn hot. enjoy! > > Sooo, let me get this straight... instead of a complete product, which you can sit in and drive directly you're offering me a load of spare parts with no engine and poor material quality. Okay, let's upgrade the analogy from a screenshot of the UI Icon to a set of exotic armor an screenshots of the Envoy. Without the chest piece. Delivered separately, some assembly required. you asked for a Ferrari for 10k. sacrifices must be made. but i still get the look and a hot car for a fraction of the price. that's enough to make me happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap. > > > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply. > > Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your _Ferrari_ for one tenth the cost of a real one , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do. > > So.. what is your problem with letting them have that? Technically, the skin is the only exclusive part you're getting. Everything else is obtainable otherwise. Unlike the car, which has a lot of sophisticated features you'd miss. So the metaphor breaks here. The problem, obviously, is exactly the exclusivity, and the effort currently required to obtain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > > > > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap. > > > > > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply. > > > > Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your _Ferrari_ for one tenth the cost of a real one , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do. > > > > So.. what is your problem with letting them have that? > > Technically, the skin is the only exclusive part you're getting. Everything else is obtainable otherwise. Unlike the car, which has a lot of sophisticated features you'd miss. So the metaphor breaks here. The problem, obviously, is exactly the exclusivity, and the effort currently required to obtain it. Nope..there is only ONE PvE path to Legendary Armor, as such it is very exclusive to it's game mode. If there were other PvE ways to get Legendary Armor you would have a great point.. but since there isn't.. you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"katz.8376" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"katz.8376" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > > > > > https://www.factoryfive.com/gtm-supercar/ > > > > > > it's not a Ferrari, but it still looks pretty darn hot. enjoy! > > > > Sooo, let me get this straight... instead of a complete product, which you can sit in and drive directly you're offering me a load of spare parts with no engine and poor material quality. Okay, let's upgrade the analogy from a screenshot of the UI Icon to a set of exotic armor an screenshots of the Envoy. Without the chest piece. Delivered separately, some assembly required. > > you asked for a Ferrari for 10k. sacrifices must be made. but i still get the look and a hot car for a fraction of the price. that's enough to make me happy > @"katz.8376" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"katz.8376" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > > > > > https://www.factoryfive.com/gtm-supercar/ > > > > > > it's not a Ferrari, but it still looks pretty darn hot. enjoy! > > > > Sooo, let me get this straight... instead of a complete product, which you can sit in and drive directly you're offering me a load of spare parts with no engine and poor material quality. Okay, let's upgrade the analogy from a screenshot of the UI Icon to a set of exotic armor an screenshots of the Envoy. Without the chest piece. Delivered separately, some assembly required. > > you asked for a Ferrari for 10k. sacrifices must be made. but i still get the look and a hot car for a fraction of the price. that's enough to make me happy Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate the American car building philosophy that gave us the Mustang and the Corvette. But where are the sacrifices Ohoni makes? Remember, we're not talking about my metaphor, we're talking about the Envoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfy.8025 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > Equally so, the rewards could also be like fractals.. you get the same rewards, just to a lesser degree. Well 100cm has it's own KP and 99 gives matrices, while the regulars don't. How would you implement that into raids? Representing a guild doesn't give you boss kp either or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > > > > > > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply. > > > > > > Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your _Ferrari_ for one tenth the cost of a real one , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do. > > > > > > So.. what is your problem with letting them have that? > > > > Technically, the skin is the only exclusive part you're getting. Everything else is obtainable otherwise. Unlike the car, which has a lot of sophisticated features you'd miss. So the metaphor breaks here. The problem, obviously, is exactly the exclusivity, and the effort currently required to obtain it. > > Nope..there is only ONE PvE path to Legendary Armor, as such it is very exclusive to it's game mode. If there were other PvE ways to get Legendary Armor you would have a great point.. but since there isn't.. you don't. Nah, I really do. People "convert" from one mode to another, sometimes exactly because of the armor. And it's still playing the same game after all, so sorry, I'm not buying your arbitrary separation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Wolfy.8025" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Equally so, the rewards could also be like fractals.. you get the same rewards, just to a lesser degree. > > Well 100cm has it's own KP and 99 gives matrices, while the regulars don't. How would you implement that into raids? Representing a guild doesn't give you boss kp either or what? IIRC matrices can be gotten other ways, so that is not exclusive to 99 AFAIK. With that said, does the KP from 100 CM give you anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap. > > > > > > > > > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply. > > > > > > > > Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your _Ferrari_ for one tenth the cost of a real one , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do. > > > > > > > > So.. what is your problem with letting them have that? > > > > > > Technically, the skin is the only exclusive part you're getting. Everything else is obtainable otherwise. Unlike the car, which has a lot of sophisticated features you'd miss. So the metaphor breaks here. The problem, obviously, is exactly the exclusivity, and the effort currently required to obtain it. > > > > Nope..there is only ONE PvE path to Legendary Armor, as such it is very exclusive to it's game mode. If there were other PvE ways to get Legendary Armor you would have a great point.. but since there isn't.. you don't. > > Nah, I really do. People "convert" from one mode to another, sometimes exactly because of the armor. And it's still playing the same game after all, so sorry, I'm not buying your arbitrary separation. No.. you don't. You're just disagreeing at this point because you don't like the idea that you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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