nia.4725 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > >The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > > > > > > > > > >Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! See, nobody else seems to get it, that is *exactly* why an easy mode is needed, because the current version alone can't possibly cut it for most players. > > > > > > > > Do you think raiders have been born with the skill required to raid? > > > > > > > > No, we were casual mortals with no idea of what a rotation is. And yet we did it! So why can't everyone else? It's just an effort. Do the effort and you'll be able to raid. You don't need an easy mode, just do a friggin effort. > > > > > > > > I started raiding a year ago and you know that? I was a terrible player, I died 3958903579 times trying to play tempest, my dps was absolute crap and I struggled trying to do my rotation. But, wow, I actually tried, and kept trying, and even though I can't play everything and I'm fairly bad at some classes, I full clear and I am able to play a lot of roles and professions. Ifull clear every week. > > > > > > > > If I didn't need an easy mode, why do you? Believe in yourself and try. I swear, I am not a very skilled player, I'm nowhere near a pro, I just persevered. > > > > > > Because I have neither the time, crayons or alcohol tolerance to deal with that kind of kitten in a game anymore. > > > > > > Sorry, doing that is simply not fun for me, and I am not going to play a game to frustrate myself, if that is what works for you, kudos, but I played GW2 because is was supposed to be the MMO for the _other players_, if I just wanted to deal with the same old same old I could have gotten from WoW.. I'd have just played WoW. > > > > then don't do raids. lol you're crying because you don't want to do something that is not fun for you so instead of playing something fun for you, you want arenanet to change it so it pleases you > > > > 10/10 > > Yes.. exactly in same way elitist players wanted harder content put in placate them.. I want the same kind of content put in _easier_ to placate me. > > If they can make raids for them.. they can make raids for me. > > It's not hard to grasp, WoW figured this one out over a decade ago. Not sure why, today, we have people who can't seem to grasp this. Because raids are supposed to be kind of hard. There is A LOT of content made for casuals and people who just want to autoattack. Go for it. Leave the challenging content to those willing to take the challenge. I don't like open world PvE and I don't go crying to anet asking them to change it in a way that will make me enjoy it. If I don't like it, I don't play it. If I want open world PvE shinies, I play the content as it is even if I don't like it. It would'nt make sense for me to cry for changes. It is how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > But have you actually tried raiding? Are you saying this because you have joined raids and, after having a raiding experience, you have come to that conclusion? Yes. I actually _have_ the raid armor already. It hadn't done anything to change my view of the situation. > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > a Laughable reason. GW2 had Fractals for the PvE players. > > Fractals are not challenging besides - maybe - challenge motes. T4s are very easy. You don't even need the gold standard with chrono, druid, war and 2 weavers to have a comfortable life in there. You don't really need that gold standard in raids either. And a few of the (non-cm) t4 fractals are already on the same difficulty level as many raid encounters. CMs are higher than the raid average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > >The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! See, nobody else seems to get it, that is *exactly* why an easy mode is needed, because the current version alone can't possibly cut it for most players. > > > > > > > > > > Do you think raiders have been born with the skill required to raid? > > > > > > > > > > No, we were casual mortals with no idea of what a rotation is. And yet we did it! So why can't everyone else? It's just an effort. Do the effort and you'll be able to raid. You don't need an easy mode, just do a friggin effort. > > > > > > > > > > I started raiding a year ago and you know that? I was a terrible player, I died 3958903579 times trying to play tempest, my dps was absolute crap and I struggled trying to do my rotation. But, wow, I actually tried, and kept trying, and even though I can't play everything and I'm fairly bad at some classes, I full clear and I am able to play a lot of roles and professions. Ifull clear every week. > > > > > > > > > > If I didn't need an easy mode, why do you? Believe in yourself and try. I swear, I am not a very skilled player, I'm nowhere near a pro, I just persevered. > > > > > > > > Because I have neither the time, crayons or alcohol tolerance to deal with that kind of kitten in a game anymore. > > > > > > > > Sorry, doing that is simply not fun for me, and I am not going to play a game to frustrate myself, if that is what works for you, kudos, but I played GW2 because is was supposed to be the MMO for the _other players_, if I just wanted to deal with the same old same old I could have gotten from WoW.. I'd have just played WoW. > > > > > > then don't do raids. lol you're crying because you don't want to do something that is not fun for you so instead of playing something fun for you, you want arenanet to change it so it pleases you > > > > > > 10/10 > > > > Yes.. exactly in same way elitist players wanted harder content put in placate them.. I want the same kind of content put in _easier_ to placate me. > > > > If they can make raids for them.. they can make raids for me. > > > > It's not hard to grasp, WoW figured this one out over a decade ago. Not sure why, today, we have people who can't seem to grasp this. > > Because raids are supposed to be kind of hard. There is A LOT of content made for casuals and people who just want to autoattack. Go for it. Leave the challenging content to those willing to take the challenge. > > I don't like open world PvE and I don't go crying to anet asking them to change it in a way that will make me enjoy it. If I don't like it, I don't play it. If I want open world PvE shinies, I play the content as it is even if I don't like it. It would'nt make sense for me to cry for changes. It is how it is. Sure.. just give me some path OW path to Legendary Armor, and I'll be glad to walk away. But as long as they are going to fall into the traps of other MMO's like WoW where Raids are a gear grind, they should at the very least, learn from WoW's mistakes and make Raids more accessible. WoW figured that out in 2008, a decade ago, it's beyond stupid that we are even having this kind of discussion today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > >The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! See, nobody else seems to get it, that is *exactly* why an easy mode is needed, because the current version alone can't possibly cut it for most players. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think raiders have been born with the skill required to raid? > > > > > > > > > > > > No, we were casual mortals with no idea of what a rotation is. And yet we did it! So why can't everyone else? It's just an effort. Do the effort and you'll be able to raid. You don't need an easy mode, just do a friggin effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > I started raiding a year ago and you know that? I was a terrible player, I died 3958903579 times trying to play tempest, my dps was absolute crap and I struggled trying to do my rotation. But, wow, I actually tried, and kept trying, and even though I can't play everything and I'm fairly bad at some classes, I full clear and I am able to play a lot of roles and professions. Ifull clear every week. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I didn't need an easy mode, why do you? Believe in yourself and try. I swear, I am not a very skilled player, I'm nowhere near a pro, I just persevered. > > > > > > > > > > Because I have neither the time, crayons or alcohol tolerance to deal with that kind of kitten in a game anymore. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, doing that is simply not fun for me, and I am not going to play a game to frustrate myself, if that is what works for you, kudos, but I played GW2 because is was supposed to be the MMO for the _other players_, if I just wanted to deal with the same old same old I could have gotten from WoW.. I'd have just played WoW. > > > > > > > > then don't do raids. lol you're crying because you don't want to do something that is not fun for you so instead of playing something fun for you, you want arenanet to change it so it pleases you > > > > > > > > 10/10 > > > > > > Yes.. exactly in same way elitist players wanted harder content put in placate them.. I want the same kind of content put in _easier_ to placate me. > > > > > > If they can make raids for them.. they can make raids for me. > > > > > > It's not hard to grasp, WoW figured this one out over a decade ago. Not sure why, today, we have people who can't seem to grasp this. > > > > Because raids are supposed to be kind of hard. There is A LOT of content made for casuals and people who just want to autoattack. Go for it. Leave the challenging content to those willing to take the challenge. > > > > I don't like open world PvE and I don't go crying to anet asking them to change it in a way that will make me enjoy it. If I don't like it, I don't play it. If I want open world PvE shinies, I play the content as it is even if I don't like it. It would'nt make sense for me to cry for changes. It is how it is. > > Sure.. just give me some path OW path to Legendary Armor, and I'll be glad to walk away. But as long as they are going to fall into the traps of other MMO's like WoW where Raids are a gear grind, they should at the very least, learn from WoW's mistakes and make Raids more accessible. WoW figured that out in 2005, 13 years ago, it's beyond stupid that we are even having this kind of discussion today. Gear grind? jkdhgjkdghsslkjdghjs Literally raids give you TONS of ascended stuff. But do you know why? Because they are CHALLENGING. You can't expect free shinies just for cheesed stuff. The legendary armor isn't better than the ascended one. It's purely cosmetic (but btw the PvE legen armor is pretty horrible) and some QoL (but it's very very annoying because you have to pass it between toons and you have to be changing the runes so it isn't worth it, in my opinion). Also, you have legen armor in PvP and WvW. You can't expect to get legendary armor just by playing casually. Casual players get casual rewards. Players who make an effort get the cool rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > >The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! See, nobody else seems to get it, that is *exactly* why an easy mode is needed, because the current version alone can't possibly cut it for most players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think raiders have been born with the skill required to raid? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, we were casual mortals with no idea of what a rotation is. And yet we did it! So why can't everyone else? It's just an effort. Do the effort and you'll be able to raid. You don't need an easy mode, just do a friggin effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I started raiding a year ago and you know that? I was a terrible player, I died 3958903579 times trying to play tempest, my dps was absolute crap and I struggled trying to do my rotation. But, wow, I actually tried, and kept trying, and even though I can't play everything and I'm fairly bad at some classes, I full clear and I am able to play a lot of roles and professions. Ifull clear every week. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I didn't need an easy mode, why do you? Believe in yourself and try. I swear, I am not a very skilled player, I'm nowhere near a pro, I just persevered. > > > > > > > > > > > > Because I have neither the time, crayons or alcohol tolerance to deal with that kind of kitten in a game anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, doing that is simply not fun for me, and I am not going to play a game to frustrate myself, if that is what works for you, kudos, but I played GW2 because is was supposed to be the MMO for the _other players_, if I just wanted to deal with the same old same old I could have gotten from WoW.. I'd have just played WoW. > > > > > > > > > > then don't do raids. lol you're crying because you don't want to do something that is not fun for you so instead of playing something fun for you, you want arenanet to change it so it pleases you > > > > > > > > > > 10/10 > > > > > > > > Yes.. exactly in same way elitist players wanted harder content put in placate them.. I want the same kind of content put in _easier_ to placate me. > > > > > > > > If they can make raids for them.. they can make raids for me. > > > > > > > > It's not hard to grasp, WoW figured this one out over a decade ago. Not sure why, today, we have people who can't seem to grasp this. > > > > > > Because raids are supposed to be kind of hard. There is A LOT of content made for casuals and people who just want to autoattack. Go for it. Leave the challenging content to those willing to take the challenge. > > > > > > I don't like open world PvE and I don't go crying to anet asking them to change it in a way that will make me enjoy it. If I don't like it, I don't play it. If I want open world PvE shinies, I play the content as it is even if I don't like it. It would'nt make sense for me to cry for changes. It is how it is. > > > > Sure.. just give me some path OW path to Legendary Armor, and I'll be glad to walk away. But as long as they are going to fall into the traps of other MMO's like WoW where Raids are a gear grind, they should at the very least, learn from WoW's mistakes and make Raids more accessible. WoW figured that out in 2005, 13 years ago, it's beyond stupid that we are even having this kind of discussion today. > > Gear grind? jkdhgjkdghsslkjdghjs > > Literally raids give you TONS of ascended stuff. But do you know why? Because they are CHALLENGING. You can't expect free shinies just for cheesed stuff. > > The legendary armor isn't better than the ascended one. It's purely cosmetic (but btw the PvE legen armor is pretty horrible) and some QoL (but it's very very annoying because you have to pass it between toons and you have to be changing the runes so it isn't worth it, in my opinion). Also, you have legen armor in PvP and WvW. > > You can't expect to get legendary armor just by playing casually. Casual players get casual rewards. Players who make an effort get the cool rewards. Oh good.. we are back in circles.. this was addressed 20 pages ago and I have neither the patience nor alcohol to go though this with you. I'd say "Learn 2 Read" but somehow that is offensive.. yet.. "Learn 2 Play" is not.. funny how games work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"Necronaut.6028" said: > > As a returning player who just came back a few months ago, I'd like to chime in. I got bored of GW2 in 2012 and decided to quit, I then gave the game another chance again six years later. With the release of two xpacs, I'm having lots of fun. I would be more inclined to venture into the world of GW2 raiding if it had an easy/normal mode. One of the things that really turned me off to fractals six years ago was that they were confusing/difficult to understand, though I'm much better at them today. I don't play games to get frustrated or overly confused, but I love orchestrated events with real people that are hands on, but not too difficult to master. World bosses, bounty hunting, ect. I love watching big groups of players smash a boss like a pinata, without the risk of frequent wipes, arguments, or drama. > > > > I avoid raids & such because I don't feel like partaking in the whole "raid leader (x) authoritarian scrutiny" shtick anymore, and if I wanted to learn a complicated and lengthy rotation, I would do so outside of the game (learning to play the piano, or a guitar). Hardcore gaming for me had its heyday in 2003-2008, yet it doesn't really fit a broad audience in today's entirely entertainment saturated world. My attitude for the most part is much more "couch gamer" relaxation centered now a days, so I'd always be willing to give entertainment avenues a chance which support that: I.E. easy/normal raids. > > The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > Every game mode has its own things and "effort requirements". Just as you can't go to WvW with greens and whatever stats if you want to succeed, you can't go to raids without a decent rotation. A lot of raid bosses are already easy/normal. You don't even need a rotation to do W3 Escort, maybe not even W2 Trio. > > I'm not trying to be rude or aggressive here, just trying to show my point: raids are supposed to be challenging and require an effort, It's part of their essence, it shouldn't be removed of them or else they will stop being what they are supposed to be -challenging, end-game content. Nia, no one wants the challenge removed... Time and time again, the easy mode people had said this, in fact the same people also want additional layers of difficulty added as well. Normal mode would remain exactly as it is. The suggestion isn’t taking normal mode and making it easy mode. It’s having an additional mode to it. Think of it as like the Devil May Cry series, where there were several layers of difficulty to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"Necronaut.6028" said: > > > As a returning player who just came back a few months ago, I'd like to chime in. I got bored of GW2 in 2012 and decided to quit, I then gave the game another chance again six years later. With the release of two xpacs, I'm having lots of fun. I would be more inclined to venture into the world of GW2 raiding if it had an easy/normal mode. One of the things that really turned me off to fractals six years ago was that they were confusing/difficult to understand, though I'm much better at them today. I don't play games to get frustrated or overly confused, but I love orchestrated events with real people that are hands on, but not too difficult to master. World bosses, bounty hunting, ect. I love watching big groups of players smash a boss like a pinata, without the risk of frequent wipes, arguments, or drama. > > > > > > I avoid raids & such because I don't feel like partaking in the whole "raid leader (x) authoritarian scrutiny" shtick anymore, and if I wanted to learn a complicated and lengthy rotation, I would do so outside of the game (learning to play the piano, or a guitar). Hardcore gaming for me had its heyday in 2003-2008, yet it doesn't really fit a broad audience in today's entirely entertainment saturated world. My attitude for the most part is much more "couch gamer" relaxation centered now a days, so I'd always be willing to give entertainment avenues a chance which support that: I.E. easy/normal raids. > > > > The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > > > Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > > > Every game mode has its own things and "effort requirements". Just as you can't go to WvW with greens and whatever stats if you want to succeed, you can't go to raids without a decent rotation. A lot of raid bosses are already easy/normal. You don't even need a rotation to do W3 Escort, maybe not even W2 Trio. > > > > I'm not trying to be rude or aggressive here, just trying to show my point: raids are supposed to be challenging and require an effort, It's part of their essence, it shouldn't be removed of them or else they will stop being what they are supposed to be -challenging, end-game content. > > Nia, no one wants the challenge removed... Time and time again, the easy mode people had said this, in fact the same people also want additional layers of difficulty added as well. Normal mode would remain exactly as it is. The suggestion isn’t taking normal mode and making it easy mode. It’s having an additional mode to it. > > Think of it as like the Devil May Cry series, where there were several layers of difficulty to choose from. You have misunderstood what I was saying. I already know what you are saying. I still think there shouldn't be an "easy" mode and I agree even less if people expect to get the shinies in that "easy" mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > Its clear that for whatever reason instances take a long time to develop, i.e 5 man/10 man/bigger. You can see that every single AAA mmorpg out there puts out instanced content at a slow rate, and having difficulty levels has no bearing on this (e.g WOW puts out raids faster now with difficulty levels than it did at its peak without) So the question 'how can you speed up instanced content', can only really be answered by a developer who works on and understands the issues with instanced content, and it must be fundamental as the problem is consistent across all games. There is a possibility that high tuning of instanced content is an additional expensive overhead, but I get some players still like this style of gameplay, so fair enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow's peak was wotlk and it had 10-25mam normal and heroid mode. > > > > > > > > > > yup wotlk is exactly when they introduced difficulty levels and the raiding scene exploded. Prior to that you had the last raid from tbc, sunwell plateau, which funnily enough has the exact same issues as you see in GW2 (and was one of the triggers for the tiered difficulties) I can remember raiding sunwell, and while it was fun that we were part of an 'exclusive' group that accessed the final boss, the vast majority of players did not, and that was a waste of resources that blizzard corrected going forward. At the same time the same type of players complained about it, same complaints as you see now, disingenuous then as it is now, people only thinking about themselves and the 'prestige' they got from the kills, not the game as a whole. > > > > > > > > So you are saying that because a raid in a gear driven game that required BiS equipment for the most part as you could farm the previous raid for over 6 months had the same issues as a raid in a game where BiS equipment is easy to get and never changed for Power classes in the last 4 years? > > > > Raids in WoW are also a major part in the story, not so much in GW2. Raids are way less frequent and not a major content source as in WoW. > > > > > > > > > > This just validates the objections many had that they have no real good reason to exist in a game like GW2. But if Anet is going to put them in.. they may as well do it right. > > > > There is a very good reason they should exist in GW2. Challenging group content. Something the game was lacking. > > Raids do not need gear progression to exist. > > a Laughable reason. GW2 had Fractals for the PvE players, and sPvP and WvW for anyone looking for a real challenge, as PvP style play has proven constantly to be the most challenging kind of play among all MMO's and MOBA's the world over. It is the only kind of play that is considered requiring real skill and ability, hence being an e-sport. Raids are just a gear grind once the scripted moves are memorized. > > And yes they do.. hence why Legendary Armor is locked behind them. It's already been validated on this forum by the pro-raid crowed that if Legendary Armor was removed from raids, that would somehow magically kill raids as well.. So.. No.. You're wrong here, and your fellow raiders have admitted it. All raids are a gear grind, and sadly.. GW2, was not going to be exception. > > So if they are going to move into becoming a WoW Clone.. they should at least do it Right, and learn from WoW's mistakes. > > That's not an unreasonable request.. to ask Anet to learn from the mistakes of others. Legendary armor has the exact same stats as ascended. There is no gear grind, do you even know what that word means? Or is PvP and WvW also gear grind as you can earn legendary armor there too? Fractals are aimed at a much greater audience than raids, there is no space for real challenging PvE content. Both PvE and PvP require 'real' skill, just in a different way. If you had actually followed the discussion you would have noticed that it is mostly about the skin not the armor color. They never went into the direction of a WoW clone... Maybe you should look at WoW, the gameplay, items, content delivery and compare them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > Its clear that for whatever reason instances take a long time to develop, i.e 5 man/10 man/bigger. You can see that every single AAA mmorpg out there puts out instanced content at a slow rate, and having difficulty levels has no bearing on this (e.g WOW puts out raids faster now with difficulty levels than it did at its peak without) So the question 'how can you speed up instanced content', can only really be answered by a developer who works on and understands the issues with instanced content, and it must be fundamental as the problem is consistent across all games. There is a possibility that high tuning of instanced content is an additional expensive overhead, but I get some players still like this style of gameplay, so fair enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow's peak was wotlk and it had 10-25mam normal and heroid mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > yup wotlk is exactly when they introduced difficulty levels and the raiding scene exploded. Prior to that you had the last raid from tbc, sunwell plateau, which funnily enough has the exact same issues as you see in GW2 (and was one of the triggers for the tiered difficulties) I can remember raiding sunwell, and while it was fun that we were part of an 'exclusive' group that accessed the final boss, the vast majority of players did not, and that was a waste of resources that blizzard corrected going forward. At the same time the same type of players complained about it, same complaints as you see now, disingenuous then as it is now, people only thinking about themselves and the 'prestige' they got from the kills, not the game as a whole. > > > > > > > > > > So you are saying that because a raid in a gear driven game that required BiS equipment for the most part as you could farm the previous raid for over 6 months had the same issues as a raid in a game where BiS equipment is easy to get and never changed for Power classes in the last 4 years? > > > > > Raids in WoW are also a major part in the story, not so much in GW2. Raids are way less frequent and not a major content source as in WoW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just validates the objections many had that they have no real good reason to exist in a game like GW2. But if Anet is going to put them in.. they may as well do it right. > > > > > > There is a very good reason they should exist in GW2. Challenging group content. Something the game was lacking. > > > Raids do not need gear progression to exist. > > > > a Laughable reason. GW2 had Fractals for the PvE players, and sPvP and WvW for anyone looking for a real challenge, as PvP style play has proven constantly to be the most challenging kind of play among all MMO's and MOBA's the world over. It is the only kind of play that is considered requiring real skill and ability, hence being an e-sport. Raids are just a gear grind once the scripted moves are memorized. > > > > And yes they do.. hence why Legendary Armor is locked behind them. It's already been validated on this forum by the pro-raid crowed that if Legendary Armor was removed from raids, that would somehow magically kill raids as well.. So.. No.. You're wrong here, and your fellow raiders have admitted it. All raids are a gear grind, and sadly.. GW2, was not going to be exception. > > > > So if they are going to move into becoming a WoW Clone.. they should at least do it Right, and learn from WoW's mistakes. > > > > That's not an unreasonable request.. to ask Anet to learn from the mistakes of others. > > Legendary armor has the exact same stats as ascended. There is no gear grind, do you even know what that word means? Or is PvP and WvW also gear grind as you can earn legendary armor there too? I love how Elitist or hardcore Players, tell casuals to go play PvP, for their gear, when they could not play PvP for challenge. #DoubleStandars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 As in with most things in life, time will decide what happens to raids. In two or three years time and no one is playing them, don’t come crying back here, that the raiding community has moved on or evaporated. I’m incredibly patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > Its clear that for whatever reason instances take a long time to develop, i.e 5 man/10 man/bigger. You can see that every single AAA mmorpg out there puts out instanced content at a slow rate, and having difficulty levels has no bearing on this (e.g WOW puts out raids faster now with difficulty levels than it did at its peak without) So the question 'how can you speed up instanced content', can only really be answered by a developer who works on and understands the issues with instanced content, and it must be fundamental as the problem is consistent across all games. There is a possibility that high tuning of instanced content is an additional expensive overhead, but I get some players still like this style of gameplay, so fair enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow's peak was wotlk and it had 10-25mam normal and heroid mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yup wotlk is exactly when they introduced difficulty levels and the raiding scene exploded. Prior to that you had the last raid from tbc, sunwell plateau, which funnily enough has the exact same issues as you see in GW2 (and was one of the triggers for the tiered difficulties) I can remember raiding sunwell, and while it was fun that we were part of an 'exclusive' group that accessed the final boss, the vast majority of players did not, and that was a waste of resources that blizzard corrected going forward. At the same time the same type of players complained about it, same complaints as you see now, disingenuous then as it is now, people only thinking about themselves and the 'prestige' they got from the kills, not the game as a whole. > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are saying that because a raid in a gear driven game that required BiS equipment for the most part as you could farm the previous raid for over 6 months had the same issues as a raid in a game where BiS equipment is easy to get and never changed for Power classes in the last 4 years? > > > > > > Raids in WoW are also a major part in the story, not so much in GW2. Raids are way less frequent and not a major content source as in WoW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just validates the objections many had that they have no real good reason to exist in a game like GW2. But if Anet is going to put them in.. they may as well do it right. > > > > > > > > There is a very good reason they should exist in GW2. Challenging group content. Something the game was lacking. > > > > Raids do not need gear progression to exist. > > > > > > a Laughable reason. GW2 had Fractals for the PvE players, and sPvP and WvW for anyone looking for a real challenge, as PvP style play has proven constantly to be the most challenging kind of play among all MMO's and MOBA's the world over. It is the only kind of play that is considered requiring real skill and ability, hence being an e-sport. Raids are just a gear grind once the scripted moves are memorized. > > > > > > And yes they do.. hence why Legendary Armor is locked behind them. It's already been validated on this forum by the pro-raid crowed that if Legendary Armor was removed from raids, that would somehow magically kill raids as well.. So.. No.. You're wrong here, and your fellow raiders have admitted it. All raids are a gear grind, and sadly.. GW2, was not going to be exception. > > > > > > So if they are going to move into becoming a WoW Clone.. they should at least do it Right, and learn from WoW's mistakes. > > > > > > That's not an unreasonable request.. to ask Anet to learn from the mistakes of others. > > > > Legendary armor has the exact same stats as ascended. There is no gear grind, do you even know what that word means? Or is PvP and WvW also gear grind as you can earn legendary armor there too? > > > I love how Elitist or hardcore Players, tell casuals to go play PvP, for their gear, when they could not play PvP for challenge. > > #DoubleStandars. I never said that. I asked if PvP or WvW are also gear grind. The PvP armor is far away from challening, you don't need to win a single game to get it. And now explain how legendary armor is gear grind and GW2 is moving towards WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > But have you actually tried raiding? Are you saying this because you have joined raids and, after having a raiding experience, you have come to that conclusion? > Yes. I actually _have_ the raid armor already. It hadn't done anything to change my view of the situation. > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > a Laughable reason. GW2 had Fractals for the PvE players. > > > > Fractals are not challenging besides - maybe - challenge motes. T4s are very easy. You don't even need the gold standard with chrono, druid, war and 2 weavers to have a comfortable life in there. > You don't really need that gold standard in raids either. And a few of the (non-cm) t4 fractals are already on the same difficulty level as many raid encounters. CMs are higher than the raid average. > > Well, I haven't stated that you need those in raids either. It's well-known that you can run a lot of the so-called challenging content with non-optimal or non-meta compositions. Skilled players even soloed and duoed raid bosses __and__ fractal cms so there's plenty of leeway for other players to make it happen in full groups. I mean there is a 50 year old female streamer regularly playing and streaming raids who clicks a lot of her skills and does abysmal dps. Still she is able to get most of the bosses down by now and having a lot of fun with her raid guild. Besides that there are other streamers as well which have a fundamental lack of game knowledge and therefore playing far from being perfect and they are also able to beat t4 fracs and raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > >The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > > > > > > > > > >Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! See, nobody else seems to get it, that is *exactly* why an easy mode is needed, because the current version alone can't possibly cut it for most players. > > > > > > > > Do you think raiders have been born with the skill required to raid? > > > > > > > > No, we were casual mortals with no idea of what a rotation is. And yet we did it! So why can't everyone else? It's just an effort. Do the effort and you'll be able to raid. You don't need an easy mode, just do a friggin effort. > > > > > > > > I started raiding a year ago and you know that? I was a terrible player, I died 3958903579 times trying to play tempest, my dps was absolute crap and I struggled trying to do my rotation. But, wow, I actually tried, and kept trying, and even though I can't play everything and I'm fairly bad at some classes, I full clear and I am able to play a lot of roles and professions. Ifull clear every week. > > > > > > > > If I didn't need an easy mode, why do you? Believe in yourself and try. I swear, I am not a very skilled player, I'm nowhere near a pro, I just persevered. > > > > > > Because I have neither the time, crayons or alcohol tolerance to deal with that kind of kitten in a game anymore. > > > > > > Sorry, doing that is simply not fun for me, and I am not going to play a game to frustrate myself, if that is what works for you, kudos, but I played GW2 because is was supposed to be the MMO for the _other players_, if I just wanted to deal with the same old same old I could have gotten from WoW.. I'd have just played WoW. > > > > then don't do raids. lol you're crying because you don't want to do something that is not fun for you so instead of playing something fun for you, you want arenanet to change it so it pleases you > > > > 10/10 > > Yes.. exactly in same way elitist players wanted harder content put in placate them.. I want the same kind of content put in _easier_ to placate me. You only have 95% of the game. Poor boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > Its clear that for whatever reason instances take a long time to develop, i.e 5 man/10 man/bigger. You can see that every single AAA mmorpg out there puts out instanced content at a slow rate, and having difficulty levels has no bearing on this (e.g WOW puts out raids faster now with difficulty levels than it did at its peak without) So the question 'how can you speed up instanced content', can only really be answered by a developer who works on and understands the issues with instanced content, and it must be fundamental as the problem is consistent across all games. There is a possibility that high tuning of instanced content is an additional expensive overhead, but I get some players still like this style of gameplay, so fair enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow's peak was wotlk and it had 10-25mam normal and heroid mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yup wotlk is exactly when they introduced difficulty levels and the raiding scene exploded. Prior to that you had the last raid from tbc, sunwell plateau, which funnily enough has the exact same issues as you see in GW2 (and was one of the triggers for the tiered difficulties) I can remember raiding sunwell, and while it was fun that we were part of an 'exclusive' group that accessed the final boss, the vast majority of players did not, and that was a waste of resources that blizzard corrected going forward. At the same time the same type of players complained about it, same complaints as you see now, disingenuous then as it is now, people only thinking about themselves and the 'prestige' they got from the kills, not the game as a whole. > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are saying that because a raid in a gear driven game that required BiS equipment for the most part as you could farm the previous raid for over 6 months had the same issues as a raid in a game where BiS equipment is easy to get and never changed for Power classes in the last 4 years? > > > > > > Raids in WoW are also a major part in the story, not so much in GW2. Raids are way less frequent and not a major content source as in WoW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just validates the objections many had that they have no real good reason to exist in a game like GW2. But if Anet is going to put them in.. they may as well do it right. > > > > > > > > There is a very good reason they should exist in GW2. Challenging group content. Something the game was lacking. > > > > Raids do not need gear progression to exist. > > > > > > a Laughable reason. GW2 had Fractals for the PvE players, and sPvP and WvW for anyone looking for a real challenge, as PvP style play has proven constantly to be the most challenging kind of play among all MMO's and MOBA's the world over. It is the only kind of play that is considered requiring real skill and ability, hence being an e-sport. Raids are just a gear grind once the scripted moves are memorized. > > > > > > And yes they do.. hence why Legendary Armor is locked behind them. It's already been validated on this forum by the pro-raid crowed that if Legendary Armor was removed from raids, that would somehow magically kill raids as well.. So.. No.. You're wrong here, and your fellow raiders have admitted it. All raids are a gear grind, and sadly.. GW2, was not going to be exception. > > > > > > So if they are going to move into becoming a WoW Clone.. they should at least do it Right, and learn from WoW's mistakes. > > > > > > That's not an unreasonable request.. to ask Anet to learn from the mistakes of others. > > > > Legendary armor has the exact same stats as ascended. There is no gear grind, do you even know what that word means? Or is PvP and WvW also gear grind as you can earn legendary armor there too? > > > I love how Elitist or hardcore Players, tell casuals to go play PvP, for their gear, when they could not play PvP for challenge. > > #DoubleStandars. Now we're elitist and hardcore and you not only know that! You also know that we can't play pvp. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > >The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! See, nobody else seems to get it, that is *exactly* why an easy mode is needed, because the current version alone can't possibly cut it for most players. > > > > > > > > > > Do you think raiders have been born with the skill required to raid? > > > > > > > > > > No, we were casual mortals with no idea of what a rotation is. And yet we did it! So why can't everyone else? It's just an effort. Do the effort and you'll be able to raid. You don't need an easy mode, just do a friggin effort. > > > > > > > > > > I started raiding a year ago and you know that? I was a terrible player, I died 3958903579 times trying to play tempest, my dps was absolute crap and I struggled trying to do my rotation. But, wow, I actually tried, and kept trying, and even though I can't play everything and I'm fairly bad at some classes, I full clear and I am able to play a lot of roles and professions. Ifull clear every week. > > > > > > > > > > If I didn't need an easy mode, why do you? Believe in yourself and try. I swear, I am not a very skilled player, I'm nowhere near a pro, I just persevered. > > > > > > > > Because I have neither the time, crayons or alcohol tolerance to deal with that kind of kitten in a game anymore. > > > > > > > > Sorry, doing that is simply not fun for me, and I am not going to play a game to frustrate myself, if that is what works for you, kudos, but I played GW2 because is was supposed to be the MMO for the _other players_, if I just wanted to deal with the same old same old I could have gotten from WoW.. I'd have just played WoW. > > > > > > then don't do raids. lol you're crying because you don't want to do something that is not fun for you so instead of playing something fun for you, you want arenanet to change it so it pleases you > > > > > > 10/10 > > > > Yes.. exactly in same way elitist players wanted harder content put in placate them.. I want the same kind of content put in _easier_ to placate me. > > You only have 95% of the game. Poor boy. ...and you have 100%.. yet we both paid the same.. if they gave me a discount. .. or sold raid separately.. I'd also be content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > As in with most things in life, time will decide what happens to raids. In two or three years time and no one is playing them, don’t come crying back here, that the raiding community has moved on or evaporated. > > I’m incredibly patient. Well it's been almost 3 years since they got put in.. and a full expansion. And while I don't think raids will die off or become dead content, I do think Anet will take a fiscal hit for putting them in poorly, and falling into the same traps and problems other MMO's had with them. The question is at this point.. how much damage will they do to themselves before they wake up and realize their mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > > Its clear that for whatever reason instances take a long time to develop, i.e 5 man/10 man/bigger. You can see that every single AAA mmorpg out there puts out instanced content at a slow rate, and having difficulty levels has no bearing on this (e.g WOW puts out raids faster now with difficulty levels than it did at its peak without) So the question 'how can you speed up instanced content', can only really be answered by a developer who works on and understands the issues with instanced content, and it must be fundamental as the problem is consistent across all games. There is a possibility that high tuning of instanced content is an additional expensive overhead, but I get some players still like this style of gameplay, so fair enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow's peak was wotlk and it had 10-25mam normal and heroid mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yup wotlk is exactly when they introduced difficulty levels and the raiding scene exploded. Prior to that you had the last raid from tbc, sunwell plateau, which funnily enough has the exact same issues as you see in GW2 (and was one of the triggers for the tiered difficulties) I can remember raiding sunwell, and while it was fun that we were part of an 'exclusive' group that accessed the final boss, the vast majority of players did not, and that was a waste of resources that blizzard corrected going forward. At the same time the same type of players complained about it, same complaints as you see now, disingenuous then as it is now, people only thinking about themselves and the 'prestige' they got from the kills, not the game as a whole. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you are saying that because a raid in a gear driven game that required BiS equipment for the most part as you could farm the previous raid for over 6 months had the same issues as a raid in a game where BiS equipment is easy to get and never changed for Power classes in the last 4 years? > > > > > > > Raids in WoW are also a major part in the story, not so much in GW2. Raids are way less frequent and not a major content source as in WoW. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just validates the objections many had that they have no real good reason to exist in a game like GW2. But if Anet is going to put them in.. they may as well do it right. > > > > > > > > > > There is a very good reason they should exist in GW2. Challenging group content. Something the game was lacking. > > > > > Raids do not need gear progression to exist. > > > > > > > > a Laughable reason. GW2 had Fractals for the PvE players, and sPvP and WvW for anyone looking for a real challenge, as PvP style play has proven constantly to be the most challenging kind of play among all MMO's and MOBA's the world over. It is the only kind of play that is considered requiring real skill and ability, hence being an e-sport. Raids are just a gear grind once the scripted moves are memorized. > > > > > > > > And yes they do.. hence why Legendary Armor is locked behind them. It's already been validated on this forum by the pro-raid crowed that if Legendary Armor was removed from raids, that would somehow magically kill raids as well.. So.. No.. You're wrong here, and your fellow raiders have admitted it. All raids are a gear grind, and sadly.. GW2, was not going to be exception. > > > > > > > > So if they are going to move into becoming a WoW Clone.. they should at least do it Right, and learn from WoW's mistakes. > > > > > > > > That's not an unreasonable request.. to ask Anet to learn from the mistakes of others. > > > > > > Legendary armor has the exact same stats as ascended. There is no gear grind, do you even know what that word means? Or is PvP and WvW also gear grind as you can earn legendary armor there too? > > > > > > I love how Elitist or hardcore Players, tell casuals to go play PvP, for their gear, when they could not play PvP for challenge. > > > > #DoubleStandars. > > I never said that. I asked if PvP or WvW are also gear grind. The PvP armor is far away from challening, you don't need to win a single game to get it. > > And now explain how legendary armor is gear grind and GW2 is moving towards WoW. Simple, Legendary is the Top Tier of Armor, and has exclusive QoL features attached to it, making it the BiS gear in the game. Ergo: **Gear Grind** Pretty self evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > As in with most things in life, time will decide what happens to raids. In two or three years time and no one is playing them, don’t come crying back here, that the raiding community has moved on or evaporated. > > > > I’m incredibly patient. > > Well it's been almost 3 years since they got put in.. and a full expansion. And while I don't think raids will die off or become dead content, I do think Anet will take a fiscal hit for putting them in poorly, and falling into the same traps and problems other MMO's had with them. > > The question is at this point.. how much damage will they do to themselves before they wake up and realize their mistake. Well if we comparing people raiding w1-3 to now the numbers are probably much lower. My guild used to raid lots, but due to personal reasons the raiding ceased. I hear this from many people. Again, I give it two to three more years because niche content is the first thing to lose support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > >The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! See, nobody else seems to get it, that is *exactly* why an easy mode is needed, because the current version alone can't possibly cut it for most players. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think raiders have been born with the skill required to raid? > > > > > > > > > > > > No, we were casual mortals with no idea of what a rotation is. And yet we did it! So why can't everyone else? It's just an effort. Do the effort and you'll be able to raid. You don't need an easy mode, just do a friggin effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > I started raiding a year ago and you know that? I was a terrible player, I died 3958903579 times trying to play tempest, my dps was absolute crap and I struggled trying to do my rotation. But, wow, I actually tried, and kept trying, and even though I can't play everything and I'm fairly bad at some classes, I full clear and I am able to play a lot of roles and professions. Ifull clear every week. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I didn't need an easy mode, why do you? Believe in yourself and try. I swear, I am not a very skilled player, I'm nowhere near a pro, I just persevered. > > > > > > > > > > Because I have neither the time, crayons or alcohol tolerance to deal with that kind of kitten in a game anymore. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, doing that is simply not fun for me, and I am not going to play a game to frustrate myself, if that is what works for you, kudos, but I played GW2 because is was supposed to be the MMO for the _other players_, if I just wanted to deal with the same old same old I could have gotten from WoW.. I'd have just played WoW. > > > > > > > > then don't do raids. lol you're crying because you don't want to do something that is not fun for you so instead of playing something fun for you, you want arenanet to change it so it pleases you > > > > > > > > 10/10 > > > > > > Yes.. exactly in same way elitist players wanted harder content put in placate them.. I want the same kind of content put in _easier_ to placate me. > > > > You only have 95% of the game. Poor boy. > > ...and you have 100%.. yet we both paid the same.. if they gave me a discount. .. or sold raid separately.. I'd also be content. Considering the content would still be in the game you still both have the same amount in the game. OR. If you're going to say that people who are more capable have more time have a more broad interest in everything in the game somehow have "more of the game" than someone who only focuses on one part of it, then that really is just always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > As in with most things in life, time will decide what happens to raids. In two or three years time and no one is playing them, don’t come crying back here, that the raiding community has moved on or evaporated. > > > > > > I’m incredibly patient. > > > > Well it's been almost 3 years since they got put in.. and a full expansion. And while I don't think raids will die off or become dead content, I do think Anet will take a fiscal hit for putting them in poorly, and falling into the same traps and problems other MMO's had with them. > > > > The question is at this point.. how much damage will they do to themselves before they wake up and realize their mistake. > > Well if we comparing people raiding w1-3 to now the numbers are probably much lower. My guild used to raid lots, but due to personal reasons the raiding ceased. Again, I give it two to three more years because niche content is the first thing to lose support. I see what you mean now. Yah, the harder it is to get into content, the faster it dies off later in the game, as more people become less tolerant of players just starting to get into it, and impose higher expectations. Solid Point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > > >The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! See, nobody else seems to get it, that is *exactly* why an easy mode is needed, because the current version alone can't possibly cut it for most players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think raiders have been born with the skill required to raid? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, we were casual mortals with no idea of what a rotation is. And yet we did it! So why can't everyone else? It's just an effort. Do the effort and you'll be able to raid. You don't need an easy mode, just do a friggin effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I started raiding a year ago and you know that? I was a terrible player, I died 3958903579 times trying to play tempest, my dps was absolute crap and I struggled trying to do my rotation. But, wow, I actually tried, and kept trying, and even though I can't play everything and I'm fairly bad at some classes, I full clear and I am able to play a lot of roles and professions. Ifull clear every week. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I didn't need an easy mode, why do you? Believe in yourself and try. I swear, I am not a very skilled player, I'm nowhere near a pro, I just persevered. > > > > > > > > > > > > Because I have neither the time, crayons or alcohol tolerance to deal with that kind of kitten in a game anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, doing that is simply not fun for me, and I am not going to play a game to frustrate myself, if that is what works for you, kudos, but I played GW2 because is was supposed to be the MMO for the _other players_, if I just wanted to deal with the same old same old I could have gotten from WoW.. I'd have just played WoW. > > > > > > > > > > then don't do raids. lol you're crying because you don't want to do something that is not fun for you so instead of playing something fun for you, you want arenanet to change it so it pleases you > > > > > > > > > > 10/10 > > > > > > > > Yes.. exactly in same way elitist players wanted harder content put in placate them.. I want the same kind of content put in _easier_ to placate me. > > > > > > You only have 95% of the game. Poor boy. > > > > ...and you have 100%.. yet we both paid the same.. if they gave me a discount. .. or sold raid separately.. I'd also be content. > > Considering the content would still be in the game you still both have the same amount in the game. If it's self funded, then I couldn't legitimately have a problem with it, as those that like it, fund it. I take issue when I am expected to fund the game, and there is content directly designed to stonewall me. In that venture, I would only buy what I could play, so.. no.. we would both not have the same amount of game. They would have **MORE** game then I do.. but they paid for that more access. Much in the same way I didn't have LW3, I could buy it, but, right now, I do not have access to it, so.. I have **less** game then everyone with that LW unlocked, but at the same time.. I din't pay for it either. Treat Raids the same way.. make people pay for them. Might increase their production if they are directly profitable. In case you are wondering, yes.. I support the idea of charging for content, and would be fine if they Charged for new OW maps, Story Dungeons, or just flatly charged everyone for LW episodes. Let them follow the money as far as content creation goes, it beats succumbing to the bad ideas of elitist that just want their private little playpens. The difference between you and I.. is that I want people to enjoy the content with me.. You want to have content that others can't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nia.4725 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > > > > >The thing is that you won't be able to kill a raid boss without a proper rotation. Raid bosses can't be killed pressing whatever buttons. Try to go to a raid boss with 10 people who won't do a rotation: you'll fail miserably. And I can assure you that once you've done your rotation many times you have it so internalized that you don't think about it -you just execute it. And then raids are very chill, if you have a decent group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raids are end-game content, they're supposed to be the most challenging content ingame. That means they can't be cheesed, they are supposed to be difficult. They are supposed to require an special effort in order to beat them. Not just going there with whatever and doing whatever. If you want to kill the boss you need to play as good as you can. If you aren't willing to do that, I'm afraid raids are not for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly! See, nobody else seems to get it, that is *exactly* why an easy mode is needed, because the current version alone can't possibly cut it for most players. > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you think raiders have been born with the skill required to raid? > > > > > > > > > > > > No, we were casual mortals with no idea of what a rotation is. And yet we did it! So why can't everyone else? It's just an effort. Do the effort and you'll be able to raid. You don't need an easy mode, just do a friggin effort. > > > > > > > > > > > > I started raiding a year ago and you know that? I was a terrible player, I died 3958903579 times trying to play tempest, my dps was absolute crap and I struggled trying to do my rotation. But, wow, I actually tried, and kept trying, and even though I can't play everything and I'm fairly bad at some classes, I full clear and I am able to play a lot of roles and professions. Ifull clear every week. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I didn't need an easy mode, why do you? Believe in yourself and try. I swear, I am not a very skilled player, I'm nowhere near a pro, I just persevered. > > > > > > > > > > Because I have neither the time, crayons or alcohol tolerance to deal with that kind of kitten in a game anymore. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, doing that is simply not fun for me, and I am not going to play a game to frustrate myself, if that is what works for you, kudos, but I played GW2 because is was supposed to be the MMO for the _other players_, if I just wanted to deal with the same old same old I could have gotten from WoW.. I'd have just played WoW. > > > > > > > > then don't do raids. lol you're crying because you don't want to do something that is not fun for you so instead of playing something fun for you, you want arenanet to change it so it pleases you > > > > > > > > 10/10 > > > > > > Yes.. exactly in same way elitist players wanted harder content put in placate them.. I want the same kind of content put in _easier_ to placate me. > > > > You only have 95% of the game. Poor boy. > > ...and you have 100%.. yet we both paid the same.. if they gave me a discount. .. or sold raid separately.. I'd also be content. That is a big, huge, monumental lie. You have 100% of the game. You can raid if you want. If you don't want to do an effort to be able to play something and expect to be able to do everything just by pressing 1 while you drink a coffee it's YOUR problem, not Anet's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 To which the reply willbe: why shouldn't I be able t¥? Then because the game needs to be challenging to survive, then tje rest of the game isnt or there are already other challenging gamea out there leave gw2 to the casuals. Same old same old. Just different dancers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substatic.6958 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 No. GW2 does not need raid difficulties. GW2 needs better balance among specs, especially in terms of support. Most of the spots in a raid are already pre-determined due to Chrono/Druid/Banner bots. DPS balance is also absurdly bad (Stormcrows doesn't even bother to list most vanilla specs, because they are essentially dead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Substatic.6958" said: > No. GW2 does not need raid difficulties. > > GW2 needs better balance among specs, especially in terms of support. Most of the spots in a raid are already pre-determined due to Chrono/Druid/Banner bots. DPS balance is also absurdly bad (Stormcrows doesn't even bother to list most vanilla specs, because they are essentially dead). > it does, you fail to realise that the current raids represent a _style_ of raiding that the vast majority are not interested in, i.e wipe/learn a pattern/wipe/learn a pattern..move on to next rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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