Weapon skills discussion

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @musu.9205 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > Stealth on torch is an essential part of what makes the weapon unique and used in certain situations or game modes. I would reject any change which removed it. To make the weapon better they could change the targetting priority of the phantasm's attack to mimic Mirrorblade instead of iDisenchanter, making offense its priority so it will double strike a single target and exhaust all enemy targets before looking for friendlies.

> >

> > Well yes stealth is an essantial part of torch, because Stealth is generally strong in WvW/pvp and Torch has nothing else. This weapon is not really unique, it's decoy + burn something, MAYBE. Skills are Meele ranged, Phantasm has 1200 range, without any justification. Torch is simply bad designed.

> >

> > In my opinion my version clearly shows up an Catcher/Burst-Charakter. Fast Gameplay.

> >

> > Stealth helps the Player preparing the Burst etc. , now look at torch; If u manage to hit torch 4 and even the mesmer's part of torch 5 u are visible, which basically says ; "yo dude u know ... i somehow got the 7 stacks Burn on u...so...in a few seconds my phantasm is going to attack.. u should dodge it....sure i can hold ur cup of coffee."

> >

> >

>

> i think you might want to check how power build actually uses torch before saying something like that .

> your idea for torch will just remove its use in pvp and wvw entirely . firebreath on AI , you might want to check the ranger pet before you think thats a good idea lol.

> and almost instantly aoe daze on torch 4 combined with dmg condi + teleport is unhealthy for the game . same goes for that unblockable immob .

> you are just asking for a broken op skill but no matter how op it will be it will lose its use for many builds since you also deleted the traits synergy. thats just worst balance idea.

>

> torch in its core is an utility weapon which are often used for offensive set up(stealth + fury ) , there is no need to suddenly change it to supernova nuke weapon . also mes doesn't need more burst in pvp .

> we need sustain dmg . so cd reduce , function change on Image is what mes needs .bounce attack doesn't work, nor does firebreath . right now 3 phant function are best , gs , swordsman and shield .two of them have leap build in .also think about ranger pet . take what works , not random firebreath.

 

Teleport is not Build in Torch in m second try. Stacks cast time Duration etc can all be changed. Trait synergie stays , both skills are Explosions.

 

Pls tell me its unique use in pvp and wvw - Stealth ?

[musu.9205]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @musu.9205 said:

> > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > > Stealth on torch is an essential part of what makes the weapon unique and used in certain situations or game modes. I would reject any change which removed it. To make the weapon better they could change the targetting priority of the phantasm's attack to mimic Mirrorblade instead of iDisenchanter, making offense its priority so it will double strike a single target and exhaust all enemy targets before looking for friendlies.

> > >

> > > Well yes stealth is an essantial part of torch, because Stealth is generally strong in WvW/pvp and Torch has nothing else. This weapon is not really unique, it's decoy + burn something, MAYBE. Skills are Meele ranged, Phantasm has 1200 range, without any justification. Torch is simply bad designed.

> > >

> > > In my opinion my version clearly shows up an Catcher/Burst-Charakter. Fast Gameplay.

> > >

> > > Stealth helps the Player preparing the Burst etc. , now look at torch; If u manage to hit torch 4 and even the mesmer's part of torch 5 u are visible, which basically says ; "yo dude u know ... i somehow got the 7 stacks Burn on u...so...in a few seconds my phantasm is going to attack.. u should dodge it....sure i can hold ur cup of coffee."

> > >

> > >

> >

> > i think you might want to check how power build actually uses torch before saying something like that .

> > your idea for torch will just remove its use in pvp and wvw entirely . firebreath on AI , you might want to check the ranger pet before you think thats a good idea lol.

> > and almost instantly aoe daze on torch 4 combined with dmg condi + teleport is unhealthy for the game . same goes for that unblockable immob .

> > you are just asking for a broken op skill but no matter how op it will be it will lose its use for many builds since you also deleted the traits synergy. thats just worst balance idea.

> >

> > torch in its core is an utility weapon which are often used for offensive set up(stealth + fury ) , there is no need to suddenly change it to supernova nuke weapon . also mes doesn't need more burst in pvp .

> > we need sustain dmg . so cd reduce , function change on Image is what mes needs .bounce attack doesn't work, nor does firebreath . right now 3 phant function are best , gs , swordsman and shield .two of them have leap build in .also think about ranger pet . take what works , not random firebreath.

>

> Teleport is not Build in Torch in m second try. Stacks cast time Duration etc can all be changed. Trait synergie stays , both skills are Explosions.

>

> Pls tell me its unique use in pvp and wvw - Stealth ?

 

Explosions , you are not an engi whats the explosions for ?

already told you , its about offensive set up , stealth + fury , you can cast image while in stealth before the burn and direct dmg every hit anyone .or swap to gs just do normal shatter combo but in stealth .clearly you didnt really use torch in pvp and wvw before .

if you increase the cast time ,without steath , using that skill to do aoe is suicide for mesmer . and as i said , mes doesn't need more supernova nuke power .we need sustain and sustain dmg on core weapon . we could let the torch 4 leave a fire field or blind field after blast for those purpose .and it will not add more to one shot power shatter combo.

adding random cc is bad idea , in this case , it won't help mes gameplay much but it will create those aoe interrupt one trick pony, game had too many of those already .

 

and still firebreath on AI never works . try Salamander Drake on ranger , you will know .how much it sucks .

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @musu.9205 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > @musu.9205 said:

> > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > > > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > > > Stealth on torch is an essential part of what makes the weapon unique and used in certain situations or game modes. I would reject any change which removed it. To make the weapon better they could change the targetting priority of the phantasm's attack to mimic Mirrorblade instead of iDisenchanter, making offense its priority so it will double strike a single target and exhaust all enemy targets before looking for friendlies.

> > > >

> > > > Well yes stealth is an essantial part of torch, because Stealth is generally strong in WvW/pvp and Torch has nothing else. This weapon is not really unique, it's decoy + burn something, MAYBE. Skills are Meele ranged, Phantasm has 1200 range, without any justification. Torch is simply bad designed.

> > > >

> > > > In my opinion my version clearly shows up an Catcher/Burst-Charakter. Fast Gameplay.

> > > >

> > > > Stealth helps the Player preparing the Burst etc. , now look at torch; If u manage to hit torch 4 and even the mesmer's part of torch 5 u are visible, which basically says ; "yo dude u know ... i somehow got the 7 stacks Burn on u...so...in a few seconds my phantasm is going to attack.. u should dodge it....sure i can hold ur cup of coffee."

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > i think you might want to check how power build actually uses torch before saying something like that .

> > > your idea for torch will just remove its use in pvp and wvw entirely . firebreath on AI , you might want to check the ranger pet before you think thats a good idea lol.

> > > and almost instantly aoe daze on torch 4 combined with dmg condi + teleport is unhealthy for the game . same goes for that unblockable immob .

> > > you are just asking for a broken op skill but no matter how op it will be it will lose its use for many builds since you also deleted the traits synergy. thats just worst balance idea.

> > >

> > > torch in its core is an utility weapon which are often used for offensive set up(stealth + fury ) , there is no need to suddenly change it to supernova nuke weapon . also mes doesn't need more burst in pvp .

> > > we need sustain dmg . so cd reduce , function change on Image is what mes needs .bounce attack doesn't work, nor does firebreath . right now 3 phant function are best , gs , swordsman and shield .two of them have leap build in .also think about ranger pet . take what works , not random firebreath.

> >

> > Teleport is not Build in Torch in m second try. Stacks cast time Duration etc can all be changed. Trait synergie stays , both skills are Explosions.

> >

> > Pls tell me its unique use in pvp and wvw - Stealth ?

>

> Explosions , you are not an engi whats the explosions for ?

> already told you , its about offensive set up , stealth + fury , you can cast image while in stealth before the burn and direct dmg every hit anyone .or swap to gs just do normal shatter combo but in stealth .clearly you didnt really use torch in pvp and wvw before .

> if you increase the cast time ,without steath , using that skill to do aoe is suicide for mesmer . and as i said , mes doesn't need more supernova nuke power .we need sustain and sustain dmg on core weapon . we could let the torch 4 leave a fire field or blind field after blast for those purpose .and it will not add more to one shot power shatter combo.

> adding random cc is bad idea , in this case , it won't help mes gameplay much but it will create those aoe interrupt one trick pony, game had too many of those already .

>

> and still firebreath on AI never works . try Salamander Drake on ranger , you will know .how much it sucks .

 

So its just Stealth right ?

 

Current trait has "explosions deal 1 additional stack of Burn"

 

U said my Version has no trait synergy. I said that my version is explosions too...

 

U ask me why im speaking about explosions...

[Zenith.7301]

Honestly, phantasmal mage needs way more help than just a cd reduction. It's so blatantly inferior to phantasmal duelist for condi builds, and it makes no sense because pistol phantasm is relevant to condi only through a trait.

 

Both scepter and staff could use significant numerical bumps, and chaos armor needs a significant cd reduction and improvement. Staff auto has abysmal condi application despite seeming like it would be our option for condi cleave/aoe.

 

Chaos Storm could use condi application on its pulses as well. Right now staff is nothing more than a defensive weapon, as is scepter, and they step all over each other and condi builds in PvE lose as a result with no good weapon outside mainhand axe, and I say good relatively because mainhand axe is also on the weaker side.

 

A phantasm shouldn't be doing the vast majority of our condition damage, but it currently is. Because the weaponskills themselves are so weak. Just try and see the condition application without 3 phantasms up on a single target. It's virtually nonexistent. All the condition application is from the duelists.

 

Phantasmal Mage needs its burning stacks and durations bumped. It should honestly be the go to condition spec phantasm alongside phantasmal warlock. Leave pistol to power specs as their ranged option for phantasms.

 

 

[bart.3687]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> Both scepter and staff could use significant numerical bumps, and chaos armor needs a significant cd reduction and improvement. Staff auto has abysmal condi application despite seeming like it would be our option for condi cleave/aoe.

>

> Chaos Storm could use condi application on its pulses as well. Right now staff is nothing more than a defensive weapon, as is scepter, and they step all over each other and condi builds in PvE lose as a result with no good weapon outside mainhand axe, and I say good relatively because mainhand axe is also on the weaker side.

 

 

Agree. Scepter needs massive buffs and changes, it's by far the worst main hand weap for mesmer, and one of the worse in entire game. Its ambush is another bullshit. :disappointed:

Staff is underwhelming too, but at least it's pretty and can do some AoE with its bouncy projectiles/Chaos Storm/ambush. Its AA should be a little faster and always apply a damaging condition (it sucks when you apply vulnerability 6 times in a row). Something has to be done to Chaos Armor (skill 4) because it's boring. Ambush is beautiful and satisfying, but it should track the target.

Axe is supreme in terms of visuals. It also has some nice cleave capabilities. Its main issue is clunkiness of skill #2.

 

I'm not gonna talk about phantasms as I think they need total redesign, period.

[Bod.8261]

A lot of decent ideas in this thread.

Here's what i would do.

 

_Sword MH_

1 (Auto) - Buff damage of the 3rd strike

Rewards skillful interchaining of other skills, slight buff for PvE.

 

_Sword OH_

4 (Illusionary Riposte) - If used with 3 illusions won't create a clone or teleport the caster. Instead deals 50% more damage.

Now usable in phantasm PvE builds - shouldn't be a problem in PvP.

 

_Scepter_

2 (Illusionary Counter) - If used with 3 illusions won't create a clone. Instead applies additional blind.

Now usable in phantasm PvE builds - shouldn't be a problem in PvP.

3 (Confusing Images) - Will now hit up to 4 targets in a 240 radius around the enemy.

Actual AoE. Yay.

 

_Torch_

5 (Phantasmal Mage) - The bounce will always prioritize foes if possible. Increase burning duration by 1 sec. Possibly split for PvE and further increase burning duration there. (Remove Fury and give it back retaliation?)

 

_Staff_

1 (Auto) - Will always apply Vulnerability to foes and 2 stacks of either bleed or burn. (Clone variant stays the same).

3 (Phantasmal Warlock) - The damage by this skill will now be increased by condition damage or change it to torment.

Why is there a power phantasm on a condi weapon?!

4 (Chaos Armor) - Apply chaos armor to 5 allies in range and also give them regen.

5 (Chaos Storm) - Replace Swiftness with Resistance. Replace Chilled with Blind.

 

_Greatsword_

Sorry i don't care about GS. Split for PvE and make it viable I guess.