PvP Systems Conversation

[Skittledness.5106]

 

 

We look forward to having a good and productive conversation with you starting Wednesday!" You'll notice that we are not covering the most pressing reason our pvp system has failed because our entire infrastructure is flawed and those who are responsible will not be held so.

[Ragmon.6350]

Anet just give us RA and TA, make that the core of PvP. Then branch out from there.

 

This way it would be a bit easier on the balance team too. Why, cause combat is the core of PvP, and RA and TA are all about the combat. While Capture the Point is about Combat and Capturing Points (that's one additional mechanic you have to balance around).

 

One you got the balance somewhere near where you want it, then you start expanding on the core formula with "capture the point" and "stronghold" or W/e.

 

Start small, build up from there. Please.

 

[Sinid.7460]

> @Ziggityzog.7389 said:

> > @Sinid.7460 said:

> >

> > They have already tried Courtyard and it sucked. The game is balanced around conquest and that's how it should be because it's the most fun mode to play honestly. Deathmatch gets real old real fast. It's more interesting to play around objectives on a map and engage in varied matchups (2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 1v2) instead of getting into a map and fighting 5v5 every single time. Conquest promotes more build diversity because of this and you don't come across into as many repeated scenarios so it's less boring. I really can't see how anyone would think that deathmatch wouldn't make pvp more stale.

> >

> > Maybe more game modes would be fun, but this can't be done until the main mode (conquest) is healthier. The population is already shrinking and you want to shrink it even further by introducing new game modes? I don't think I need to explain more why this is a bad idea.

>

>

> First off courtyard was awesome to those that didn't just run a bow 5 spam teef. It was just put in the game wrong and had crud mechanics (none). Heck most conq maps could be converted to TDM because honestly no conquest is the worst map mode idea ever for gw2. look how simple gw1 pvp was with kill or be killed end of story pvp. It was epic. Now sadly all you need to do i roll a 2 run bow 5 spam teef team and you win 90% of games. Right now since the launch of gw2 pvp has be sub par due to the crud like game mode of whoever has the most mobility on their team wins. This is not a gmae mode based of skill at all. LOL what diversity? In TDM you have support, then people to lure others, spikers, tanks, healers. In conquest roll 2 teef and ( 3 of either scourge or FB ) win game. Spam spam spam while one or 2 runs runs runs and you win!.

>

> Sorry pvp is ded and there is only one way to revive it. By actually making it fun. Right now with circle dancing conquest all you do is run hide decap run hide decap run hide decap and you win! I know so many have their little hearts set on conq but that is what is holding GW2 PvP back from being worth playing. That or any any any! game mode besides circle dancing conq. Hell I'll take capture the flag over circle dance mode.

>

> If another game mode like TDM was actually properly introduced with a decent map or 2 and a que. Not just here is a map or 2 to die off in HotJoin. Then pvp might improve a bit.

 

Afaik, "hide decap run hide" is not going to win you games. You need to capture points and hold them to secure a victory.

So I really don't understand the logic here. "bow 5 spam teef" doesn't win you games by itself... you can hardly win even fights or hold points as a thief. Mobility by itself isn't everything. It's about using your brain and making decisions. When to commit to a fight over a point, when to disengage and where to so you can be most useful depending on your build and skill, while coordinating with your team to defend the captured points. If you think that this is not diversity compared to TDM that would enforce a meta with builds that have aoe spam and do pretty much nothing but zerging, you're insane. In conquest, every build has a strong point and weak point. Stacking 3 scourge like you suggested is bad because of its low mobility and vulnerability while rotating between points, while having something like 2 thief is going to give their own team a hard time on winning team fights and holding points. There is balance in conquest, whereas in TDM you would be probably forced into something like 2 FB and 3 scourge. You think thief or mesmer, for example, would have a place in a straight up 5v5 TDM fight? Most classes would lose their purpose in a TDM. Unless we're playing different games, I don't see how TDM would help promoting more diversity in pvp. I agree it can be fun to play it, but I'm also pretty sure that people would grow tired of it quickly.

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Ben K.6238" said:

> To be honest, balance is one of those areas that's already heavily discussed and would just overshadow the structural issues with PvP, so it's probably better to leave that for a different conversation.

>

> The reason why I (and perhaps a few other players) don't play PvP at all has nothing to do with poor balance. It's because the game mode itself is boring and creates a focus on builds that aren't interesting to play or play against.

 

first of Ben i wanted to say thank you for taking you're time to answer some questions and shed light on things for us.

 

I believe the reason a majority of players aren't playing pvp this season is due to the unbalance of condi meta being really really strong , Match making and not having players match up with each other with the same level of skills but a team rating over all which can lead to a horrible nightmare for a game, and then we have the ones who don't want to play anymore because they'll rather have a team to play with for AT and not rank.

 

I think if we were to make match making a bit more balance, and have better maps that aren't 5+ years old it'll make things fun again. I personally would love to see new maps added every season but i know thats a lot to ask about.

 

Ben i'll also Like to know why we can't have a 5vs5 team rank for the game? I would love to see teams gathering up to play against other guilds/teams it would make things interesting , fun and a lot more less frustrating to be honest. Please get back to me when you can about 5vs5 rank team matchs or maybe even call it Guild Vs Guild ( i mean the game is called GuildWars) would give the game a lot more purpose and i can see a lot more people joining for these purposes then to just solo rank, or group as unrank 5s.

 

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @Apolo.5942 said:

> Let me get this straight, the pvp balance team, dont look into the pvp forum for feed back, but into the profession forum? and dont see a problem with that? suddenly the sorry state of pvp makes perfect sense.

>

> Further, if you are not going to talk balance, might as well not have the chat at all, balance is what the pvp crowd cares about.

 

This revelation cannot be emphasized enough on how unhealthy it is. The only thing that that ever happens in class subforums is moaning about how weak the class in general is. Reading the necro subforums would make one think scourge is in desperate need of buffs. Though at least Crinn has now transferred his nerf suggestions there.

[Sinid.7460]

> @Cyczer.7834 said:

> I am glad this post is here!

>

 

>

> > * Automated Tournaments

>

> AT's are abused tournaments are only played by top tier players forming different teams over and over again. Playing the monthly tournament itself is quite pointless, a team made out of pugs has absolutely no chance. No need to say you also dont have any feature in pvp to practice as a group because our system doesnt have party matchmaking. ( People entering for rewards just gets smashed to the ground )

>

 

How are ATs abused? I don't think that most of the time, the top teams or even the top players bother to play these. ATs were made so that people would have a chance of creating a new team and try it out in a more organized environment. This should be the place these new teams would get to practice. What's the problem if the weaker players can't win as easily? Maybe this should be enough motivation to try to improve and reach better rewards in ATs. The competitive nature itself should be enough reward already.

 

> @Notjes.7182 said:

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > Hi folks!

> Hi!

>

> > Our posts will cover the following topics:

> > * Automated Tournaments

>

> **Make them observable by ALL**, if all 10 players agree. To faliclitate the communication amongst the spectators and prevent communication with contestants, install a mechanism that allows the **spectators to chat amongst themselves** and prohibit all other chat options. Additionally/Optionally implement a **delay of some sorts for spectators**.

>

>

> (Jebro and Roy do a fine job, but all this jumping between these fights is often confusing; I appreciate good commentary, but let me watch the action I want to see - like football)

 

This is a terrible idea. It would tempt players to have someone spectate the game for them and feed them information of the enemy team via discord for example. What could be done instead, would be to just have those few that are allowed to spectate, stream the ATs if the players agree to allow it.

 

 

[Trigr.6481]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> TDM was absolutely awful. A friend of mine played it once and vowed never to return to PvP. He never did.

>

> The current toxicity and joyful trolling is nothing beside what a new Courtyard would produce. This should not be done under any circumstances.

 

Wait there was team deathmatch in this game? Ohhhhhh you mean that stand alone map that was based on conquest rules that wasn't tailored to death match at all with no leaderboards to go along with it? You sound like the type of person who would trash a game that's in open beta for having bugs.

[Chaith.8256]

> @Sinid.7460 said:

> > @Ziggityzog.7389 said:

> > > @Sinid.7460 said:

> > >

> > > They have already tried Courtyard and it sucked. The game is balanced around conquest and that's how it should be because it's the most fun mode to play honestly. Deathmatch gets real old real fast. It's more interesting to play around objectives on a map and engage in varied matchups (2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 1v2) instead of getting into a map and fighting 5v5 every single time. Conquest promotes more build diversity because of this and you don't come across into as many repeated scenarios so it's less boring. I really can't see how anyone would think that deathmatch wouldn't make pvp more stale.

> > >

> > > Maybe more game modes would be fun, but this can't be done until the main mode (conquest) is healthier. The population is already shrinking and you want to shrink it even further by introducing new game modes? I don't think I need to explain more why this is a bad idea.

> >

> >

> > First off courtyard was awesome to those that didn't just run a bow 5 spam teef. It was just put in the game wrong and had crud mechanics (none). Heck most conq maps could be converted to TDM because honestly no conquest is the worst map mode idea ever for gw2. look how simple gw1 pvp was with kill or be killed end of story pvp. It was epic. Now sadly all you need to do i roll a 2 run bow 5 spam teef team and you win 90% of games. Right now since the launch of gw2 pvp has be sub par due to the crud like game mode of whoever has the most mobility on their team wins. This is not a gmae mode based of skill at all. LOL what diversity? In TDM you have support, then people to lure others, spikers, tanks, healers. In conquest roll 2 teef and ( 3 of either scourge or FB ) win game. Spam spam spam while one or 2 runs runs runs and you win!.

> >

> > Sorry pvp is ded and there is only one way to revive it. By actually making it fun. Right now with circle dancing conquest all you do is run hide decap run hide decap run hide decap and you win! I know so many have their little hearts set on conq but that is what is holding GW2 PvP back from being worth playing. That or any any any! game mode besides circle dancing conq. Hell I'll take capture the flag over circle dance mode.

> >

> > If another game mode like TDM was actually properly introduced with a decent map or 2 and a que. Not just here is a map or 2 to die off in HotJoin. Then pvp might improve a bit.

>

> Afaik, "hide decap run hide" is not going to win you games. You need to capture points and hold them to secure a victory.

> So I really don't understand the logic here. "bow 5 spam teef" doesn't win you games by itself... you can hardly win even fights or hold points as a thief. Mobility by itself isn't everything. It's about using your brain and making decisions. When to commit to a fight over a point, when to disengage and where to so you can be most useful depending on your build and skill, while coordinating with your team to defend the captured points. If you think that this is not diversity compared to TDM that would enforce a meta with builds that have aoe spam and do pretty much nothing but zerging, you're insane. In conquest, every build has a strong point and weak point. Stacking 3 scourge like you suggested is bad because of its low mobility and vulnerability while rotating between points, while having something like 2 thief is going to give their own team a hard time on winning team fights and holding points. There is balance in conquest, whereas in TDM you would be probably forced into something like 2 FB and 3 scourge. You think thief or mesmer, for example, would have a place in a straight up 5v5 TDM fight? Most classes would lose their purpose in a TDM. Unless we're playing different games, I don't see how TDM would help promoting more diversity in pvp. I agree it can be fun to play it, but I'm also pretty sure that people would grow tired of it quickly.

 

I wouldn't say most classes lose their purpose in a teamfight role but some builds do. This is the major problem, people queue up with their decapping build or 1v1 build and if a team annihilation map gets picked, they'll often not switch builds and not have fun.

 

Every profession can teamfight if they want to. Thieves and Mesmers have full room to kite and can coordinate some crazy hard swaps.

 

If ArenaNet ever implemented another game mode, __there needs to be another PvP build tab corresponding to each game mode to activate a pre-selected set of weapons & build.__ You could use this as a base for creating true build templates by adding additional pull down menu choices in each game mode tab that you could activate and snapshot multiple gear/build selections.

 

And as always the balance team will need to balance the professions for 5v5, ie: nerf Scourge & Firebrand until they're strong *options*, keyword optional.

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> Our posts will cover the following topics:

> * Matchmaking/Leagues

 

Matchmaking is garbage.

Why, for one thing, if I am with one other person and I'm getting matched up with FULL guild teams?

 

Why in unranked am I currently getting matched with the supposed rank 1 dude in NA and only come to find out he's just gonna sit at far, and boast about his pointless rank? I understand high ranked people need to practice, but having these kind of people just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, along with the fact of shouldn't they be mostly pairing up with others of their perceived skill level, even in unranked?

 

Why are people not getting paired with their equal skill first, and then getting progressively higher matchups, compared to blowouts most people have if they are not playing overtuned classes.

 

Why are mirages 1-shotting almost anything under 16k life?

 

Why. Are. Eles. Lacking. Variety. Again?

 

Why is the balance team looking in the class forums when they need to be looking in the /PvP/ forums.

 

Why is the balance team separate from the PVP team? PVP balance is separate from WvW and PVE respectfully.

 

Why are low tier played getting paired with high tiered?

 

I have a lot of why questions about a lot of things, and learning about the fact that the balance team is not working with you guys is concerning.

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> TDM was absolutely awful. A friend of mine played it once and vowed never to return to PvP. He never did.

>

> The current toxicity and joyful trolling is nothing beside what a new Courtyard would produce. This should not be done under any circumstances.

 

It was bad because it was implemented without any mechanics. Literally, kill your opponent for 5 minutes. No rounds, no punishment for stalling, no means of countering snowballing, nothing. With some extra mechanics in place, it could be a much more solid game mode.

 

As a previous poster said, it's like criticizing a game in alpha. They never spent enough time fleshing it out to really make it good.

 

> @ArthurDent.9538 said:

> > @Apolo.5942 said:

> > Let me get this straight, the pvp balance team, dont look into the pvp forum for feed back, but into the profession forum? and dont see a problem with that? suddenly the sorry state of pvp makes perfect sense.

> >

> > Further, if you are not going to talk balance, might as well not have the chat at all, balance is what the pvp crowd cares about.

>

> This revelation cannot be emphasized enough on how unhealthy it is. The only thing that that ever happens in class subforums is moaning about how weak the class in general is. Reading the necro subforums would make one think scourge is in desperate need of buffs. Though at least Crinn has now transferred his nerf suggestions there.

 

I honestly doubt the statement that they read the class forums. I've seen so many high quality recommendations for ways to fix core engineer on the engineer forum. If they actually do read those forums, it would be impossible to ignore suggestions to fix the broken mess that is core engi.

[ThePlayMaker.1058]

I think many of the balance complaints would be largely addressed with an increase in the number of game modes that are available. Every match now is a 'capture the control points' and this heavily favors bunkers, and classes with plenty of AoE *cough*scourge*cough*. If there were other modes which brought a change in gameplay style it would probably result in more diverse builds that favor other classes more.

[MakubeC.3026]

Really looking forward to this.

[zoopop.5630]

> @Sinid.7460 said:

> > @Cyczer.7834 said:

> > I am glad this post is here!

> >

>

> >

> > > * Automated Tournaments

> >

> > AT's are abused tournaments are only played by top tier players forming different teams over and over again. Playing the monthly tournament itself is quite pointless, a team made out of pugs has absolutely no chance. No need to say you also dont have any feature in pvp to practice as a group because our system doesnt have party matchmaking. ( People entering for rewards just gets smashed to the ground )

> >

>

> How are ATs abused? I don't think that most of the time, the top teams or even the top players bother to play these. ATs were made so that people would have a chance of creating a new team and try it out in a more organized environment. This should be the place these new teams would get to practice. What's the problem if the weaker players can't win as easily? Maybe this should be enough motivation to try to improve and reach better rewards in ATs. The competitive nature itself should be enough reward already.

>

 

Well i agree for most parts but the statement about thinking that most top players don't join AT is a little false. I played against a stack team of top 30 players mixed into just 1 team. I have no Issues with it at all but however every time i sign up with my team we are at the semi finals going against top 40-50 players within the leader board. I love the challenge and at times i hate it lol. Shows we need more work and at times shows im able to hang with the top dogs at times.

[Maat.3940]

Hello everyone.

 

I just wanna pitch in with a simple overview of how I understand the relationship between pvp and balance team and why it's such a ....split between then. It's nothing new really but I think they've pulled off working consistently on the pvp game mode, even with the tournaments, even with the map rework. It's almost like fairy dust meant to calm down the baby who cried all night and day. It does have meaning and I do commend the people who worked on this. It's their work and it deserves our respect. You guys must understand that a company doesn't run on fairy dust. However, if toxicity could be converted into money..this game would be PvP only.

 

That being said PvE is a money maker whereas PvP is not....they tried making it competitive in a money worthy way and it didn't succeed because people watching felt it was...boring for some reason. I like to think of myself as a well rounded player and PvP has started to interest me less and less even if I do play it once in a while. It's so depressing I can't even. Anyhow, I strayed from my point. There is sooo much to be addressed and I feel that toxicity is the main thing. If you're not a tough skinned robot of some sort, it's quite difficult to have a constructive learning experience in pvp. People learn better in a safe environment. Others choose to learn through abuse...which is exactly the state of PvP mainly. A very abusive and toxic environment. The idea of being competitive in a productive way has gone down the drain. There is nothing in the PvP mode that encourages learning. It literally brings the worse in me. :) And I am one of the players who wanted to play that mode for the sake of exploring mechanics not rewards. So all of this has proven Anet that PvP can't be relied upon to be a sustainable ground for their growth as a company. Also, if they would market the pvp system outside or inside the game, imagine the shock of new players when they come into that unwelcoming environment that's out of any sort of control. So the fact that this dev guy Ben is even here commenting it's truly nothing short of a miracle and he is very brave.. very brave indeed! Remember he is not the one to blame, not him nor the team. All of you made the decision that this game mode is...the way it is whenever you call someone an idiot instead of giving actual advice on actual mechanics and gently refer them to streamers that can teach them a thing or two. I could talk about this for days but my post is oh so long already. Good luck with the community talk and just remember that much of what it is proposed is just patch work on deeper wounds that are not being addressed: balance, player behavior.

 

Enjoy your days everyone and have fun! Thanks for giving me a space to express myself.

 

P.S: Don't try to put nice clothes on a dead body. It's gonna stink anyway.

[Sinid.7460]

> @zoopop.5630 said:

>

> Well i agree for most parts but the statement about thinking that most top players don't join AT is a little false. I played against a stack team of top 30 players mixed into just 1 team. I have no Issues with it at all but however every time i sign up with my team we are at the semi finals going against top 40-50 players within the leader board. I love the challenge and at times i hate it lol. Shows we need more work and at times shows im able to hang with the top dogs at times.

 

One of the problems with pvp at the moment is that the leaderboards are a joke. The matchmaking seems non existant and most of the time it clearly favours a team over the other. Lots of good players either don't play solo queue at all at the moment, or don't take it seriously. So I wouldn't consider top 30 an achievement or a solid measure of skill. Went a bit off topic there, but if you call it a "mix" of people this means they're probably not organized and not impossible to win against even with less skilled players, as long as there is good teamwork. When I play AT I rarely run into a good team, so I don't know where you get this idea from but that's my perspective.

[messiah.1908]

matchmaking

* i would like to see each player mmr before the fight and team mmr. in RL if you enter to the mma ring you know your opponent history, win loses etc....

* i would like 5v5 even in ranked

* i would like to see 10v10 mini gvg (weakly for wvw players to fight in pvp once a week)

* dont allow elite stacking in ranked. if there are not enough ppl give the team alert to switch . if not put a penalty on them like the other team has 5% more dmg/heal for 5 min.

 

scoring system

* i would like better scoring system according to personal value to the team. if my team lost and i did good i want to lose less point. if my team wins and i did poorly (carried) i need to earn less point. doing so by calculating team healing (not self), boon share to allies, boon corrupt from enemies, dps (not total dmg), time holding a point while being attacked ... etc....

* if possible encourage high tier lvl to go with beginners. if the high lvl player lost he will lose less point (manipulation alert if possible try to avoid it)

 

maps

* i would like to see more maps mechanism beside cap the point. like cap and or hold the flag, defends your troops, area environment in which you have to handle while fighting. point caped is being decap as long as you dont stand on it. in the courtyard enforce randomly a 1v1 for 1 min by not enable other players to enter the mid arena.

* stronghold is nice and has nice potential like mini wvw. if we could use the cannon more and maybe add arrow cart to defend etc...

 

i would like to talk about builds and skills but this is not the thread apparently

 

 

 

 

[MyPuppy.8970]

Rewards:

sPvP mats unobtainable in PVE, for sPvP skins/legs/whatever [account bound]

 

- Crystallized tears

- Log of frustration

- Scrap of rage

- etc.

[Xillllix.3485]

It's kinda weird to talk about PvP in consideration that a new expansion was just released with zero PvP content...

[Genesis.5169]

Would it be possible to allow us to compare post game stats atleast in ranked games? Getting top stats is no way to gauge how good of a player you are if its relative to your team and your team is doing badly even if its just an opt-in policy or just for premades i would like to see my stats compared to other players.

[Devilman.1532]

If you aren't going to talk class balance and what you are doing to address it then what do we really have to talk about? Well I guess we can talk about the still rampant match manipulation, win trading and whatnot that still goes on but I figure that wont happen will it? Lack of balance is the #1 thing casing PvP in your game to die fast and yet you fail to address it. State that you aren't there to talk balance all you want, but its what people are going to ask about regardless.

[Ansatsu.2678]

Balance not being discussed. And anet wonder why people quit their game. If you want a class nerfed you have to post a video of it being OP in a PvE environment.

[Devilman.1532]

> @Ansatsu.2678 said:

> Balance not being discussed. And anet wonder why people quit their game. If you want a class nerfed you have to post a video of it being OP in a PvE environment.

 

Aint that the truth man :(

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @Maat.3940 said:

> Hello everyone.

>

> I just wanna pitch in with a simple overview of how I understand the relationship between pvp and balance team and why it's such a ....split between then. It's nothing new really but I think they've pulled off working consistently on the pvp game mode, even with the tournaments, even with the map rework. It's almost like fairy dust meant to calm down the baby who cried all night and day. It does have meaning and I do commend the people who worked on this. It's their work and it deserves our respect. You guys must understand that a company doesn't run on fairy dust. However, if toxicity could be converted into money..this game would be PvP only.

>

> That being said PvE is a money maker whereas PvP is not....they tried making it competitive in a money worthy way and it didn't succeed because people watching felt it was...boring for some reason. I like to think of myself as a well rounded player and PvP has started to interest me less and less even if I do play it once in a while. It's so depressing I can't even. Anyhow, I strayed from my point. There is sooo much to be addressed and I feel that toxicity is the main thing. If you're not a tough skinned robot of some sort, it's quite difficult to have a constructive learning experience in pvp. People learn better in a safe environment. Others choose to learn through abuse...which is exactly the state of PvP mainly. A very abusive and toxic environment. The idea of being competitive in a productive way has gone down the drain. There is nothing in the PvP mode that encourages learning. It literally brings the worse in me. :) And I am one of the players who wanted to play that mode for the sake of exploring mechanics not rewards. So all of this has proven Anet that PvP can't be relied upon to be a sustainable ground for their growth as a company. Also, if they would market the pvp system outside or inside the game, imagine the shock of new players when they come into that unwelcoming environment that's out of any sort of control. So the fact that this dev guy Ben is even here commenting it's truly nothing short of a miracle and he is very brave.. very brave indeed! Remember he is not the one to blame, not him nor the team. All of you made the decision that this game mode is...the way it is whenever you call someone an idiot instead of giving actual advice on actual mechanics and gently refer them to streamers that can teach them a thing or two. I could talk about this for days but my post is oh so long already. Good luck with the community talk and just remember that much of what it is proposed is just patch work on deeper wounds that are not being addressed: balance, player behavior.

>

> Enjoy your days everyone and have fun! Thanks for giving me a space to express myself.

>

> P.S: Don't try to put nice clothes on a dead body. It's gonna stink anyway.

 

When you are having top players calling low-tier players every name in the book, and wonder why their gamemode is going down hill, it explains so much.

 

People are willing to learn, some people are hard-headed, but a lot are willing to learn. And yes there are top players that have the patience that no man has, and I bless them for having that.

 

But the toxic waste dumps that are humans outweighs the ones that are trying to make an actual effort to get people in here, and to actually understand mechanics. There needs to be an give and take, all I'm seeing nowadays is take and take until people abandon PVP as a whole.

[Devilman.1532]

> @Lilyanna.9361 said:

> > @Maat.3940 said:

> > Hello everyone.

> >

> > I just wanna pitch in with a simple overview of how I understand the relationship between pvp and balance team and why it's such a ....split between then. It's nothing new really but I think they've pulled off working consistently on the pvp game mode, even with the tournaments, even with the map rework. It's almost like fairy dust meant to calm down the baby who cried all night and day. It does have meaning and I do commend the people who worked on this. It's their work and it deserves our respect. You guys must understand that a company doesn't run on fairy dust. However, if toxicity could be converted into money..this game would be PvP only.

> >

> > That being said PvE is a money maker whereas PvP is not....they tried making it competitive in a money worthy way and it didn't succeed because people watching felt it was...boring for some reason. I like to think of myself as a well rounded player and PvP has started to interest me less and less even if I do play it once in a while. It's so depressing I can't even. Anyhow, I strayed from my point. There is sooo much to be addressed and I feel that toxicity is the main thing. If you're not a tough skinned robot of some sort, it's quite difficult to have a constructive learning experience in pvp. People learn better in a safe environment. Others choose to learn through abuse...which is exactly the state of PvP mainly. A very abusive and toxic environment. The idea of being competitive in a productive way has gone down the drain. There is nothing in the PvP mode that encourages learning. It literally brings the worse in me. :) And I am one of the players who wanted to play that mode for the sake of exploring mechanics not rewards. So all of this has proven Anet that PvP can't be relied upon to be a sustainable ground for their growth as a company. Also, if they would market the pvp system outside or inside the game, imagine the shock of new players when they come into that unwelcoming environment that's out of any sort of control. So the fact that this dev guy Ben is even here commenting it's truly nothing short of a miracle and he is very brave.. very brave indeed! Remember he is not the one to blame, not him nor the team. All of you made the decision that this game mode is...the way it is whenever you call someone an idiot instead of giving actual advice on actual mechanics and gently refer them to streamers that can teach them a thing or two. I could talk about this for days but my post is oh so long already. Good luck with the community talk and just remember that much of what it is proposed is just patch work on deeper wounds that are not being addressed: balance, player behavior.

> >

> > Enjoy your days everyone and have fun! Thanks for giving me a space to express myself.

> >

> > P.S: Don't try to put nice clothes on a dead body. It's gonna stink anyway.

>

> When you are having top players calling low-tier players every name in the book, and wonder why their gamemode is going down hill, it explains so much.

>

> People are willing to learn, some people are hard-headed, but a lot are willing to learn. And yes there are top players that have the patience that no man has, and I bless them for having that.

>

> But the toxic waste dumps that are humans outweighs the ones that are trying to make an actual effort to get people in here, and to actually understand mechanics. There needs to be an give and take, all I'm seeing nowadays is take and take until people abandon PVP as a whole.

 

Well until there is any sort of enforcement to the incredible amount of abuse, cheating and harassment that goes on in game and in the community as a whole it will continue and get worse. Anet does nothing to police the community in game and on the rare occasions when they do take any action at all its a slap on the wrist. They do come down on this forum like the Gestapo though on anything too critical. Log in and sit it the Mists and you'll see plenty of racist insults in chat, people calling players everything but human, all the way up to threats of real bodily harm. people laugh on chat about they game the system, match manipulate, and buy/trade wins. It's very sad.

If there is no real punishment for all of this disgusting behavior (yeah I'm looking at the whole debacle of the slap on the wrist season dishonor joke for cheating instead of full on account/IP bans) then why in the world do you think people are going to be anything but animals? Why would new people ever want to stick around?

[Varron.4291]

? nerf scourge & mirage.

? buff rewards

? everything else is ok i think