Catchyfx.5768 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > @"EvilSnowflake.1453" said: > > > > @"coro.3176" said: > > > > Condi burst has become overwhelming not only in # of stacks, but also in # of conditions applied at once. For an example, look no further than scourge condi bomb: > > > > > > > > > > > > That's 8 condi applied more or less instantly with no obvious tell to dodge. There's no real way to avoid this other than "don't ever be close to a scourge". > > > > > > I was the guy that condi bombed you there, and I'd like to note that the bleeding and weakness you received were from boon corruption. Not saying that its easy to counterplay, just that it wasn't only from being near me. It was from having boons and being near me. > > > > > > I agree that there is little counterplay to scourge bomb, its the reason we(BAN) run 5-6 scourges in a 15 man composition. > > > I'd like to note though that aside from epidemic, this is basically the first time that a full condi spec has been viable in Zerg v Zerg (Its always been good in 1v1). > > > WvW has been, and still is, dominated by power builds. If you don't agree, come GvG us with a condi comp. > > > > People dont realize that, necro will be corupting your boons,nerf or not....its class mechanic. > > And that is precisely what the problem is. It is not the condi application, but the boon corrupt. It needs to go away in favor of a mechanic that is balanced. i dont think it's really big problem if you're not walking boonshare. like if i play reaper and reaper is boonless only might and sometime swiftnes it isn't that hard to win against scourge. his only favor is he can kite me because reaper is slow. Necro overall is boonless and corupt is only thing that he brings to table. even thief with his dmg and mobility have better boon generation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoser.7245 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"Catchyfx.5768" said: > > > > @"EvilSnowflake.1453" said: > > > > > @"coro.3176" said: > > > > > Condi burst has become overwhelming not only in # of stacks, but also in # of conditions applied at once. For an example, look no further than scourge condi bomb: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's 8 condi applied more or less instantly with no obvious tell to dodge. There's no real way to avoid this other than "don't ever be close to a scourge". > > > > > > > > I was the guy that condi bombed you there, and I'd like to note that the bleeding and weakness you received were from boon corruption. Not saying that its easy to counterplay, just that it wasn't only from being near me. It was from having boons and being near me. > > > > > > > > I agree that there is little counterplay to scourge bomb, its the reason we(BAN) run 5-6 scourges in a 15 man composition. > > > > I'd like to note though that aside from epidemic, this is basically the first time that a full condi spec has been viable in Zerg v Zerg (Its always been good in 1v1). > > > > WvW has been, and still is, dominated by power builds. If you don't agree, come GvG us with a condi comp. > > > > > > People dont realize that, necro will be corupting your boons,nerf or not....its class mechanic. > > > > And that is precisely what the problem is. It is not the condi application, but the boon corrupt. It needs to go away in favor of a mechanic that is balanced. > > i dont think it's really big problem if you're not walking boonshare. like if i play reaper and reaper is boonless only might and sometime swiftnes it isn't that hard to win against scourge. his only favor is he can kite me because reaper is slow. Necro overall is boonless and corupt is only thing that he brings to table. even thief with his dmg and mobility have better boon generation They are talking about WvW. It doesn't matter if your build is boonless. You can't control the boonshare of the players around you, so there'll be always situations where you'll be loaded of boons even if you don't generate any. And add that in some professions you can't avoid generate boons in some of their trait lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoser.7245 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said: > Wintersday is coming fellow Tyrians and, during the recent AMA, I made reference to a [small balance update]( ) and I wished to follow-up to let you know that we're aiming to release that update next Tuesday, 12/12. > > --- > > We've heard your frustrations with the burstiness of conditions invalidating power builds across game modes (though for differing reasons in each). Conditions have always been intended as a way to achieve strong sustained damage *once it has ramped up*. > > This small update has primary two foci: > * Pushing damaging burst condition toward ramping, sustained damage. This should create more opportunities for counterplay, but also feel satisfying to keep conditions rolling once you’ve ramped them up. > - i.e. We’re tuning some skills that apply damaging conditions so that they apply less stacks up front, but last for longer. In total duration they’re almost the same before and after. > - e.g. Purging Flames: Burning has been adjusted from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 2 stacks for 8 seconds. > * Re-vamping several passive vulnerability traits to offer more distinct opportunities or create synergy with other traits (rather than being standalone). At small amounts vulnerability doesn’t feel good and adding more vulnerability to something that is capped on it has little value. These changes will offer chances to spike up vulnerability when it is ebbing or encourage new build styles. > - e.g. Mutilate Defenses: This trait has been reworked and renamed to "Expose Defenses". This trait now causes your first attack when entering combat to inflict 5 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds. This ability refreshes whenever you use an elite skill. > > As always, we’ll be looking for your feedback once you have had a chance to play with the upcoming changes. We’ll start a post here after December 12th to hear your thoughts, so please prepare your most constructive feedback. > > See you in the lands! > The main problem with WvW is the amount of players together and balance the conditions there could result in something undesirable like the same build in other game mode having a complete different game style. It has been commented that boon corruption could be one of the problems in too. You can't control the amount of boons that you receive due to the boonshare around you and even you can't avoid generate some boons in your builds. I'm doubt that change a mechanic like boon corruption or others specifically for a game mode is the best solution. It could result in a complete diferent play style for any game mode with similar build, profession and specialization. A solution in the long term could be an active balance. I am more supporter of control the position of the players in the map, use the cells of the map, detect the agglomeration of players and actively balance the area where they are and the adjacent ones. I believe that it just been commented and I had the same idea and it could be the key for the future. That should solve both the excesive abuse of burst damage from any source and equilibrate the outnumbered situations too making the combat more a bigger challenge and not simply crushing your rivals like a steamroller by doubling them or more in number. Of course it will depend on the number of players from each side nearby but that is already work to determine and tests to be done to find the right balance. You can determine a minimum of imbalance and thus not be unfair when there is no disproportionate superiority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maugetarr.6823 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Daffan.8924" said: > > @"Ertrak.9506" said: > > > @"Daffan.8924" said: > > > When is this coming out so I can judge if this game is worth playing any more or not > > > > If you read the op and not just comments you'd know > > Yeah but it could be 12:01 I WANT TO KNOW!!!!! Usually around 10am PST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 I did read really fast the patch notes but it seems really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaraki.5784 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > I did read really fast the patch notes but it seems really good. No, not at all, I did not read anything about new raid wing: not the fix for Dhuum's mini-chest nor the fix for River of Souls exploit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 Posted December 12, 2017 Author ArenaNet Staff Share Posted December 12, 2017 Now that the Wintersday Update is live, [here's a thread for constructive feedback](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/20457/wintersday-balance-update-feedback-thread/) once you've had some time to play the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > I did read really fast the patch notes but it seems really good. > > No, not at all, I did not read anything about new raid wing: not the fix for Dhuum's mini-chest nor the fix for River of Souls exploit.... It was meant as a balance for condi burst. @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" Thank you for the dedicated thread. Loving hem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaraki.5784 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > I did read really fast the patch notes but it seems really good. > > > > No, not at all, I did not read anything about new raid wing: not the fix for Dhuum's mini-chest nor the fix for River of Souls exploit.... > > It was meant as a balance for condi burst. > > @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" Thank you for the dedicated thread. Loving hem. So what!? Those are urgent matters to fix ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > So what!? Those are urgent matters to fix ASAP. So it would have been bad to say that i don't care since i don't raid and i don't even feel sorry for you. Instead of pretending you should be grateful for this patch ( wheather you are upset for the missing fix you were hoping for, though they already claimed the sense of this 12/12 patch ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmageddonAsh.6430 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > I did read really fast the patch notes but it seems really good. Not at all. The conditions will still do about the same damage, they werent nerfed. They just moved some over the damage to be over time. Havent fixed the never ending application nor the VERY heavy reliance on long cool down condition removal to be ablt to last long enough to win the fight seeing as how the constant application still hasnt been fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitali.5039 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > I did read really fast the patch notes but it seems really good. > > Not at all. The conditions will still do about the same damage, they werent nerfed. They just moved some over the damage to be over time. Havent fixed the never ending application nor the VERY heavy reliance on long cool down condition removal to be ablt to last long enough to win the fight seeing as how the constant application still hasnt been fixed. Condition application could not be slowed but the condi pressure is lower than before as targets will have lower stacks for application, even if for more duration. More time to work around the C.damage without making it useless. And more duration with less pressure means that clearing will be easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmageddonAsh.6430 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Vitali.5039" said: > Condition application could not be slowed but the condi pressure is lower than before as targets will have lower stacks for application, even if for more duration. > More time to work around the C.damage without making it useless. And more duration with less pressure means that clearing will be easier. Well, yes they could. There are MANY skills which could easily have longer cool downs for PvP/WvW only. Nothing has been "nerfed" They still have pretty much the same damage as before. Its the sheer constant, never ending application that also needed to be fixed. It hasn't been. This update has done nothing (as expected by many of us...) to actually fix the broken classes and builds. With constant never ending application, now with just longer duration (yay!) the lessening of a few stacks here and there wont have much difference. Of course this isnt the end of all things update. The big update NEEDS to come with PROPER fixes. Because this is a band aide, at best that many will see through soon enough. In several classes, these changes will actually be buffs. Though, not quite sure why they decided to buff quite a few classes in terms of damage but still find a spot to nerf ele some more, as if it wasn't weak enough :/ It must be the ONLY class in the game that in order to deal damage you have to run full berserker. My Weaver has 2k Power, 200% Crit damage and STILL tickles people. My Soul beast has less and melts peoples faces :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapioca.9062 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 While I like the change to conditions in a PvE context and the way it encourages build diversity in a Raid setting, I am concerned about its potential impact in PvP game modes. In PvP modes I am less concerned about the condition ramp up time than I am about condition reapplication times vs cleanse availability and condition duration vs resistance uptime. As it currently stands, condition reapplication times already vastly exceed cleanse availability and there's very little that a player can do about this. No matter how much you cleanse those conditions are going right back on you. Additionally, increasing condition duration without a comparable increase to resistance uptime is going to increase the overall lethality of conditions because resistance is now less effective in mitigating condition damage. Where you could once ride out a condition bomb using resistance, that is a much less viable option now. So while I think this was a good change for PvE, the fact that this wasn't solely a PvE change means that the way these changes affect PvP modes needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaraki.5784 Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"Zaraki.5784" said: > > So what!? Those are urgent matters to fix ASAP. > > So it would have been bad to say that i don't care since i don't raid and i don't even feel sorry for you. > Instead of pretending you should be grateful for this patch ( wheather you are upset for the missing fix you were hoping for, though they already claimed the sense of this 12/12 patch ). I don't care if you, or anyone else, care of that or not, I'm not grate at all of this patch since none of what's new is of particular interest to me and I'll still be upset whatever you might say since I was expecting that fix to come ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klypto.1703 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Great job anet instead of being killed in 0.01 seconds i now die in .02. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synergy.5809 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 either put a cap on conditions like how it was on release. or get rid of them already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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