A Server Held Hostage by its Population

[Mine.3810]

I play on two different servers - same problem. :(

[Bdews.7236]

BB can never be full because it is the only Spanish server.

[CrimsonNeonite.1048]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"CrimsonNeonite.1048" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > For anyone that doesn’t know he’s talking about Elona reach and to be clear he’s mainly talking about Kodash/Deso that bring the 50 man blob when they have 15 people. I find it kind of funny someone saying this is happening to Deso when last week Deso absolutely destroyed Elona and Ring of Fireside Surmia (the 2 medium and high servers) together.

> > >

> >

> > Do you think Deso wants to be stuck in T4-T5? That happens in T5, but the same thing happens to Deso in T4.

> > Desolation cannot compete in T4, they just have less numbers; due to other servers having links and so we're stuck in T4-T5, while also having a perma locked population.

> >

> > There needs to be competitive balance, where players should be encouraged to move to lower ranked servers, with lower populations.

> > It's not gonna happen, when certain servers are locked by bad population calculations, maybe it needs manual adjustments, just like they did with Glicko.

> >

>

> Regardless Deso is not fairing worse than Elona which is probably as bad as the other triple link in T5. That’s without discussing the elephant in the room which is Deso is full of fair weather players, always has been and now KISS left there’s a big chunk of regular and experienced WvW players who no longer carry the server.

 

Desolation's 'fairweather' population used to carry the server, especially during the Tournaments, aswell as the commanders, also Guilds like DVG, IRON, ROCK, EXG and PT, The Pug Population isn't that large in number anymore, certainly not enough to lock the server from transfer, so that T5 is the only place where it can realistically compete anymore.

 

The one problem is, about those Population thresholds they speak of, they don't seem to take into account both the host + link(s) separately. Which is why we see some hosts, or host and linked servers are open to transfer, even in the higher tiers, which allows players to stack there instead.

 

The system is bad for Deso and Elona, because according to the Q&A, it's calculated by players hours and Populations and thresholds, so I'm not sure something like Kodash will happen again, going by their Q&A.. RoF is linked to two servers, but most players generally moved to Piken, Gandara, Vabbi and FSP, and their links , you also have multi-national players on International EU servers too.

 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

I think a lot of problems could be solved with better/nicer/exclusive shiny rewards for wvw.

 

If people saw someone standing around DR in some really fancy wvw-only gear, they would get interested to play. More people wanting to play would benefit the non-full servers making the mode better for everyone involved.

 

This is another reason why I am angry with anet for making that super shiny lege armor raid-only.

 

That stuff wvw exclusive and we would still be drowning in players...

 

At the moment you run in a zerg all afternoon/evening and at the end of the night you got less than from doing events&farming in pve. In gold and mats. And that sucks. Reward tracks are nice. Too bad most stuff you get from them is... well... useless. How many tomes of knowledge does one need? Lake Doric Leatherfarm is more rewarding. Sure, in it is also boring, but hey, you only have to do it for a short while...

 

Why not drop in some mount skins every 250 or 500 ranks or something? If people hear you can get those in wvw, the mode would be crushed under a tidal force of new players. Doesn't even have to be the ultra-fancy ones.

[Tatori.7938]

**One temporary fix I believe is desperately needed while we wait for the fix that's coming soon™:**

In order to calculate population more accurately, pip farmers/AFKers need to be ignored. Their time played is boosting the whole servers time played up exponentially, while contributing nothing (usually just flipping spawn camps on outnumbered maps for hours a day). They have a multitude of reasons for pip farming, but it needs to be dealt with in order to create better server vs server balance. My suggestion: Add pips into Edge of the Mist. Preferably, give more pips for playing over there so they don't bloat the servers numbers, and have a reason to move. This effectively would resurrect EotM, and allow for a more accurate insight on server population/time played.

 

 

**Extra thought:**

Cut down the number of servers on both NA and EU to have one less tier. For the players that are on those servers that would be cut from WvW, allow them to pick which server to move from out of the current ones that are not Full or Very High. Links really need to go. They were a band-aid over a problem that required a lot more than something that falls off after a day or two of use.

[Eremes Guile.1480]

*reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

 

*reads in forum "BG is outnumbering every server and is destroying the game" *logged in to see if DB and SOS keeps in eb gets permanently paper or not. Nope they held it t3 until the end of the match. Not sure if BG is destroying wvw or just another unecessary crying in the forums.

 

*reads in forum "wvw is dead!" *logged in to see SOS dueling some BG and DB lads. Stayed and join dools until almost an hour. Not sure if wvw is dead or this forum is full of unecessary crying.

 

*dance*

[atheria.2837]

> @"Chris Cleary.8017" said:

> This is something that we are having chats internally about quite often. Essentially server population is a self perpetuating problem and layer on top of that problem region specific time zone population density and you end up in a situation like we have right now. It's not an easy problem to solve, and not a quick one. I can't yet comment on potential outcomes of the internal discussions, however I can comment specifically about this situation in EU.

>

> With BB topping participation and Kodash surging this week, the difference between the Worlds in 3rd and 9nd (for participation) is only between 5% and 15%. That's actually a good spread if those worlds matched up against eachother... however.... BB isn't listed as FULL and Kodash is. The idea of "Full" server status can mean a number of things, but mostly it's in attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. That's clearly not working if BB isn't FULL atm when it should be.

>

> I'll dig into it significantly more over the next few days (on the population/Server Status situation as a whole). Ideally I'd like at least server status updated (and working properly) before the winter break, but it might happen after. Solving the overarching self perpetuation of population unbalance is a larger issue to tackle, that's not a "soon" thing.

 

"attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. "

 

It's not working on any server any longer except the largest, and not even all the time on those.

 

Undo the links. They've failed.

 

Balance? I have an idea - merge NA and EU servers - or have a cycled server day and night schedule that can adjust for the inequities in numbers on 'off '

hours for servers on both EU and NA sides of the house.

 

We're losing more and more people in WvW - and they aren't getting 'replaced' with new players, older ones are just moving to bigger and bigger servers and

the 'difference' is exponential between levels and servers - exponential means no 'equal' fights and a lot of 'gee, we took your whole bl for the week'. I just can't see how that's balance in any way.

 

**People want WvW, but not so many numbers that there is no hope to win or even to fight what is 'out there'.**

 

[Basti.3698]

Dear Forum,

 

Thanks for participating in this discussion and sharing your thoughts with us. ANET just published a questionnaire. I interpret this as a direct reaction to this thread and hope more people will join to show how devastating the condition of our beloved WvW-Mode really is..

> @"Eremes Guile.1480" said:

> *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

 

Im glad you still experience fun moments in WvW, as other people mentioned before these problems do not affect every server.. And as you see, many of us are affected.

Hopefully more people join the discussion to create a complete picture of the current state of things.

 

Link questionnaire:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/19921/wvw-frequently-asked-questions#latest

 

Best,

B.

[Ashamir.9574]

OP is right in the fact that there are too many language servers.

 

When linking was introduced in EU some people were even asking if Arenanet were considering the linking of for example German and EU servers. I didn't happen, though, nobody seemed to consider it even, and now we have 7 German servers, of which 3 (Elona, Kodash, Riverside) are always playing solo and 4 (Abbadon, Drakkar, Dzagonur & Miller) are always playing linked.

 

Tbh it's just too many servers. Combine the 4 smaller ones into 1 or 2 new servers. Give them new names, so no one server is losing their "identity" while another can keep theirs.

 

Same for the French servers. You have 5 atm who are always linked 1-2-3 and 1-2, so **none** of them has the amount of players needed to play on their own. Augury, Jade Sea and Vizunah are marked as "very high" population, which just shows how incredibly incorrect the ratings are. A "full" server has (barely) enough people to play on their own, therefore a "medium" (Fissure of Woe, Fort Ranik, Ruins of Surmia, Whiteside Ridge) server has to be deserted in WvW.

 

At this point I see no other way to fix the imbalance problem in population other than to scrap some servers.

 

The linking was supposed to be the solution, and maybe it was for NA, but in EU it obviouly doesn't work out.

[dasmir.4075]

+1 @"Basti.3698"

[FogLeg.9354]

> @"Ashamir.9574" said:

> A "full" server has (barely) enough people to play on their own, therefore a "medium" (Fissure of Woe, Fort Ranik, Ruins of Surmia, Whiteside Ridge) server has to be deserted in WvW.

 

I am in Fissure of Woe, marked as "medium" population. I would estimate about 40 players are logging into WvW during the week, some play every day many hours, some less. It is kinda difficult to guess since we are linked to SFR, so these are players I remember from times we were linked to other servers or from times when FoW was single server in T9. Just to be clear, not 40 players same time, but 40 players in total.

[Nidome.1365]

> @"Rampage.7145" said:

> Look at that kitten i just fixed WvW for you guys for free.

 

Nope you just suggested how to kill WvW finally and permanently.

 

 

[SnowPumpkin.1809]

> @"atheria.2837" said:

> > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said:

> > This is something that we are having chats internally about quite often. Essentially server population is a self perpetuating problem and layer on top of that problem region specific time zone population density and you end up in a situation like we have right now. It's not an easy problem to solve, and not a quick one. I can't yet comment on potential outcomes of the internal discussions, however I can comment specifically about this situation in EU.

> >

> > With BB topping participation and Kodash surging this week, the difference between the Worlds in 3rd and 9nd (for participation) is only between 5% and 15%. That's actually a good spread if those worlds matched up against eachother... however.... BB isn't listed as FULL and Kodash is. The idea of "Full" server status can mean a number of things, but mostly it's in attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. That's clearly not working if BB isn't FULL atm when it should be.

> >

> > I'll dig into it significantly more over the next few days (on the population/Server Status situation as a whole). Ideally I'd like at least server status updated (and working properly) before the winter break, but it might happen after. Solving the overarching self perpetuation of population unbalance is a larger issue to tackle, that's not a "soon" thing.

>

> "attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. "

>

> It's not working on any server any longer except the largest, and not even all the time on those.

>

> Undo the links. They've failed.

>

> Balance? I have an idea - merge NA and EU servers - or have a cycled server day and night schedule that can adjust for the inequities in numbers on 'off '

> hours for servers on both EU and NA sides of the house.

>

> We're losing more and more people in WvW - and they aren't getting 'replaced' with new players, older ones are just moving to bigger and bigger servers and

> the 'difference' is exponential between levels and servers - exponential means no 'equal' fights and a lot of 'gee, we took your whole bl for the week'. I just can't see how that's balance in any way.

>

> **People want WvW, but not so many numbers that there is no hope to win or even to fight what it 'out there'.**

I love this idea! That's the biggest issue I've seen. I'm NA and my bf is EU and we have to pick one of the other to play together. Either way there are times when no one is on and we can't really play. International servers would be awesome for round the clock population.

 

 

[Napo.1230]

> With BB topping participation and Kodash surging this week, the difference between the Worlds in 3rd and 9nd (for participation) is only between 5% and 15%. That's actually a good spread if those worlds matched up against eachother... however.... BB isn't listed as FULL and Kodash is. The idea of "Full" server status can mean a number of things, but mostly it's in attempt to balance WvW populations so that servers that get matched together have a equal paying field of participation. That's clearly not working if BB isn't FULL atm when it should be.

>

 

Surely the fact that BB only play at night is affecting this? I'm assuming they are robots and don't need sleep or have south American help as from 11pm onwards they have a nice unopposed karma farm.

 

[Sovereign.1093]

what can we do? situation now is some coverage will not be the same as others. thats just it.

 

we have to many servers, few players and no incentive to try harder.

 

wvw is casual, your lucky if your timezone allows you to play with ppl. else, do you plan to wake up 2 am to play? i did.

 

 

[KatLehn.7146]

I love wvw like it is. And I'm playing wvw really really often.

 

**BUT**: Our server is „**full**“ since several month but we dont have enough players.

At daytime we are 30 players over all maps, if that. At prime time we seldom have only one queue.

Some of us are thinking that the server is dying, despite we are „**full**“.

 

I'm not believing it , because I don't want to. :/

 

**Please Anet, help us. Overwork your calkulations. It isn't fair.**

[Ben K.6238]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > @"Pretty Pixie.8603" said:

> > > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > > > @"Pretty Pixie.8603" said:

> > > > Previous RvR games have shown that just two or three factions lead to one faction being stacked and dominating the other ones. No one likes to be on the losing team. Populations aren't a fixed thing, new players join, old one takes break or retire. Unless you manually assign populations, this will remain a likely problem, and manually assigning populations come with a heap of problems of their own.

> > > >

> > > There can be only one winner in the end

> >

> > I'm not sure what you mean with that. Are you're saying you're fine with one Faction being the dominant one? that seems to go against the general argument.

>

> yes, just like now in the current setup. bg outshines all other servers.

 

Thank you for so concisely explaining why 3 factions is not an improvement.

[Sovereign.1093]

double posted. hehe.

[Swamurabi.7890]

Does WvW really need to be a 24/7 match?

 

After five years we all know that population and coverage are what matters most in the 24/7 game, followed by organization and a distant fourth is skill.

 

Can't we change WvW to remove population and coverage and just have organization and skill dominate?

 

[morrolan.9608]

> @"Pretty Pixie.8603" said:

> Previous RvR games have shown that just two or three factions lead to one faction being stacked and dominating the other ones. No one likes to be on the losing team. Populations aren't a fixed thing, new players join, old one takes break or retire. Unless you manually assign populations, this will remain a likely problem, and manually assigning populations come with a heap of problems of their own.

 

This does not happen with ESO.

 

 

[morrolan.9608]

> @"Eremes Guile.1480" said:

> *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

>

> *reads in forum "BG is outnumbering every server and is destroying the game" *logged in to see if DB and SOS keeps in eb gets permanently paper or not. Nope they held it t3 until the end of the match. Not sure if BG is destroying wvw or just another unecessary crying in the forums.

>

> *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" *logged in to see SOS dueling some BG and DB lads. Stayed and join dools until almost an hour. Not sure if wvw is dead or this forum is full of unecessary crying.

>

> *dance*

 

*reads in forum "wvw is dead!" * Logs in on my timezone on reset night my time (ocx) and no server in T1 has a commander.

[Sovereign.1093]

if no commander, pls dont play. if there is a com ppl play or rally to such player, except roamers.

 

A com, here, is one who tags up and not a hidden tag.

 

If no one plays, lead.

 

Coms are a different breed. Really grateful to have someone to follow.

[Eremes Guile.1480]

> @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > @"Eremes Guile.1480" said:

> > *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

> >

> > *reads in forum "BG is outnumbering every server and is destroying the game" *logged in to see if DB and SOS keeps in eb gets permanently paper or not. Nope they held it t3 until the end of the match. Not sure if BG is destroying wvw or just another unecessary crying in the forums.

> >

> > *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" *logged in to see SOS dueling some BG and DB lads. Stayed and join dools until almost an hour. Not sure if wvw is dead or this forum is full of unecessary crying.

> >

> > *dance*

>

> *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" * Logs in on my timezone on reset night my time (ocx) and no server in T1 has a commander.

 

Lmao do you need a commander to flip camp or a tower? Or open field pug skirmishes even?

[Sovereign.1093]

> @"Eremes Guile.1480" said:

> > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > @"Eremes Guile.1480" said:

> > > *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

> > >

> > > *reads in forum "BG is outnumbering every server and is destroying the game" *logged in to see if DB and SOS keeps in eb gets permanently paper or not. Nope they held it t3 until the end of the match. Not sure if BG is destroying wvw or just another unecessary crying in the forums.

> > >

> > > *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" *logged in to see SOS dueling some BG and DB lads. Stayed and join dools until almost an hour. Not sure if wvw is dead or this forum is full of unecessary crying.

> > >

> > > *dance*

> >

> > *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" * Logs in on my timezone on reset night my time (ocx) and no server in T1 has a commander.

>

> Lmao do you need a commander to flip camp or a tower? Or open field pug skirmishes even?

 

you dont need to but it is fun to have one. because ppl play more if there is a focal point.

[morrolan.9608]

> @"Eremes Guile.1480" said:

> > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > @"Eremes Guile.1480" said:

> > > *reads in forum "wvw is dead" *logged in during reset and saw orange sword. SOS zerg fight with BG. Not sure if wvw is dead or just some unecessary crying in the forums.

> > >

> > > *reads in forum "BG is outnumbering every server and is destroying the game" *logged in to see if DB and SOS keeps in eb gets permanently paper or not. Nope they held it t3 until the end of the match. Not sure if BG is destroying wvw or just another unecessary crying in the forums.

> > >

> > > *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" *logged in to see SOS dueling some BG and DB lads. Stayed and join dools until almost an hour. Not sure if wvw is dead or this forum is full of unecessary crying.

> > >

> > > *dance*

> >

> > *reads in forum "wvw is dead!" * Logs in on my timezone on reset night my time (ocx) and no server in T1 has a commander.

>

> Lmao do you need a commander to flip camp or a tower? Or open field pug skirmishes even?

 

You're missing the point or deliberately ignoring it.