Wintersday Balance Update: Feedback Thread

[Ivantreil.3092]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Aylaine.1036" said:

> > So your idea is to let others suffer because you suffer? Hopefully no one listens to you, because the salt is pretty real. My sympathy for other players & the classes they choose to main immediately evaporates when they become toxic like this. Also if you weren't clearly blinded by the ocean you would see that most mirage players also _want_ a nerf in PvP, just not a blanket nerf that affects their PvE build as well. Y'a know, splitting the balance between game modes?

>

> Simply put. Mesmer/Chrono and Mirage are flat out broken. That can't and shouldn't be denied. The ONLY ones that will say otherwise when it comes to PvP/WvW are the ones that know they are being carried by it being so hugely overpowered and unbalanced. You say there are some that want it nerfed? I bet you, there are more that DON'T want it nerfed.

>

> This anger shouldn't be targeted at players for pointing out something is so insanely broken but at the Devs who STILL wont' split the balance between WvW/PvP and PvE. 99% of issues would be resolved if they did that. The problem is, i just don't think they have the man power or ability to be able to do that.

>

>

 

Exactly my thoughts when i wrote about how anet tends to balance, but another reason why i won't have mercy on seeing mirage being nerfed is because anet seems to have a bias balance when it comes to mesmer, Condi Mirage should have been nerfed on this patch, just like the rest of condi builds was nerfed, and in top of that, they left confusion untouched? why!?!?

[Aylaine.1036]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > @"Aylaine.1036" said:

> > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > > @"Ivantreil.3092" said:

> > > > > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > > > Gotta love how balance QQ is being dominated by a format a lesser fraction of the playerbase plays.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > PvE mirage better not suffer because of catering to PvP garbage.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean, it sucks to see a spec suffer due to the oppression it does in another gamemode, but knowing how anet tends to balance, people who had enough of it won't have mercy of it even if that means seeing it suffering in another gamemode, and even more when people know the class still has other builds in the meta, *cough*Chrono*cough*.

> > > >

> > > > A build that's a completely different role. It's like telling a ranger they should be happy to play a healer if condition soulbeast drops out of usage in PvE.

> > > >

> > > > Most of the complains about mirage are 1v1 kitten garbage anyways. Mirages are not even used in large zerg combat, and tournaments don't use more than one if any are used.

> > > >

> > > > A game should not be balanced on duels.

> > >

> > > Cry me a river. Mesmer has spec that is WANTED/must have in raids. Takes revs or thieves - nobody wants any of their specs in raids. In any other pve mode you can play literary anything and be ok. Meanwhile mesmers together with scourges literary ruining anything that is left of pvp. Mesmers have luxury problems atm and don't want to lose their iWin button by the looks of it.

> > >

> > > Game is not balanced on duels, game is balanced on raids and conquest and once in ages on wvw if certain builds becomes way too good in zerg environment.

> > >

> > > At this point i really start to wish for mesmers to be nerfed to revenant levels so they learn how to be thankful for having at least one viable spec.

> > So your idea is to let others suffer because you suffer? Hopefully no one listens to you, because the salt is pretty real. My sympathy for other players & the classes they choose to main immediately evaporates when they become toxic like this.

>

> Are you talking about yourself? Because you want wvw/pvp population suffer due to mirage design atm and you are trying to defend it. You actively wish for thousands of players to have frustrating experience because you want your iWin button to remain. Yeah, no sympathy for you.

 

You conveniently left out the part where I mentioned nerfs for Mirage, so yeah. No. I never said they should suffer. Either you didn't read my post or you are just really upset. PvP Mirage needs nerfs. PvE Mirage doesn't. The mesmer forums have been talking about this for quite some time now. Probably time you & other people got up to speed with that instead of blindly insinuating that every person who plays Mirage is trying to defend it in PvP/WvW.

 

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Aylaine.1036" said:

> > So your idea is to let others suffer because you suffer? Hopefully no one listens to you, because the salt is pretty real. My sympathy for other players & the classes they choose to main immediately evaporates when they become toxic like this. Also if you weren't clearly blinded by the ocean you would see that most mirage players also _want_ a nerf in PvP, just not a blanket nerf that affects their PvE build as well. Y'a know, splitting the balance between game modes?

>

> Simply put. Mesmer/Chrono and Mirage are flat out broken. That can't and shouldn't be denied. The ONLY ones that will say otherwise when it comes to PvP/WvW are the ones that know they are being carried by it being so hugely overpowered and unbalanced. You say there are some that want it nerfed? I bet you, there are more that DON'T want it nerfed.

>

> This anger shouldn't be targeted at players for pointing out something is so insanely broken but at the Devs who STILL wont' split the balance between WvW/PvP and PvE. 99% of issues would be resolved if they did that. The problem is, i just don't think they have the man power or ability to be able to do that.

>

>

No. My anger **will** go to people who cant differentiate the game modes and ask for blanket nerfs. Chrono is broken? Tell me how, because they've been balanced for a long time now and I haven't seen one in months in PvP. PvE? They just got one of the most damaging nerfs. Going to need a citation on this one.

 

[DinesenDK.5067]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"DinesenDK.5067" said:

> > From a Warrior perspective, I can only say this for now.

> >

> > Resistance feels close to useless against Scourges. You might have reduced the condi burst output, but that just leaves the warrior to die a bit slower. In a 1vs1 the following pretty much happens everytime.: Tons of condis is put on the warrior, as it tries to take the Scourge down. War can then pop resist or Heal/cleanse to counter it. If I heal and cleanse, the same condis are back on me shortly after. If I resist, the resist is corrupted, and the condis are back on me a few seconds later anyways. This time I must use my heal/cleanse, but the result is the same because 10 sec later the same condis are back on me, and this time I am out of defenses and a sitting duck. On top of that, put the fact, that my stability is corrupted as well, and I am slowed, which means, I can now not even keep up with the Scourge, and then the Torment hits because I move too. I honestly think it is over the top, as you simply don't have the power or survival tools to sustain the scourge to his dead in the same few moments it takes the Scourge to delete the warrior.

> >

> > If it is just me who needs to learn, then I would be happy if someone could teach me how to work around the current issue, as I can't find an answer to it.

> >

> > Ideas:

> >

> > Make Resistance and stability none-corruptable.

> > Reduce timer on heals that cleanses conditions as well - Perhaps even make them instant casts, to bring more than passive healing into play as well?

> > Change how Torment works.

> > Change how corruption works.

> > Increase Warriors Power while affected by a condition by X%

>

> Yeah. No. Warriors dont need to be even more broken thanks. So you have a build that can FINALLY counter you and now suddenly condition builds need to be nerfed and Warrior needs to be buffed.

>

> I said it for a LONG time on here and in the game, the ONLY time when Condition builds would see a nerf - When Warriors are no longer immune to all condition builds in the game. Guess what changed recently happened? Now suddenly, Warriors have to work to counter conditions. I mean you still have more up time on Resistance as well as good condition removal to be able to fight them, apparently spellbreaker completely counters Condi Mesmer as well....

>

> 1) No Resistance and Stability should NOT be immune to corrupts

> 2) So on top of your pasisve healing and your healing traits you want MORE healing!?

> 3) I agree that Torment and Confusion needs to be changed

> 4) Other than removing it from Scepter auto attack, Corruption is fine.

> 5) Yeah. No. You can already go full zerk gear and still have 3k+ Armour and 20k health. You dont need more power.

 

I totally agree that the Warrior should not be more broken. That was not where I was going at all. I was simply writing my experience against Scourges, and handing out a few ideas, and asking for ways to counter Scourge - I was not trying to tell what should be done.

 

Resistance is fine as it is against other professions, and I don't mind working to win my 1vs1s - The close fights, are the most intense and fun to do afterall. However, it never feels like a close fight against Scourges, because I usually gets destroyed if I try to stick around to win.

 

Perhaps you can help me? How do you take down Scourges, when you know you pretty much start from, and have to survive with no resistance and boons from the get go, and until you or the Scourge is dead? - Yes, I play the current SB metabuild.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Aylaine.1036" said:

> No. My anger **will** go to people who cant differentiate the game modes and ask for blanket nerfs. Chrono is broken? Tell me how, because they've been balanced for a long time now and I haven't seen one in months in PvP. PvE? They just got one of the most damaging nerfs. Going to need a citation on this one.

 

Except, that is YOUR view as a Mesmer player. Playing against a mesmer (most of them condi...) in PvP and WvW is nothing short of a tedious nightmare. They are FAR from balanced. I am pretty sure most of those saying that Mesmer/Chrno/Mirage need nerfs are coming form PvP and WvW where balance is the most important. Simple in what i THINK they need: They need direction. Are the burst condi or sustained condi? They are currently BOTH and its VERY, very unbalanced.

 

If they are burst condi. That is fine, HEAVILY reduce their condition duration. I would also reduce the NUMBER of conditions they apply. This is more aimed at Staff for obvious reasons but at the moment they do Burst condi application, with sustained condi covering making the real dangerous conditions WAY too difficult to remove.

 

If they are meant to be sustained condi that is also fine, for this HEAVILY reduce the condition application, getting hit for 5stacks of Confusion or Torment every 5seconds would need to be stopped. Constant low application that if someone isnt good with their removals they get punished, but if they are good with their removals then it makes them easier to fight against

 

I do think, in terms of PvP and WvW confusion and Torment need to be changed. They are too punishing at the moment, for the SHEER constant application Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage have they need to be weakened a little bit. I would say Remove the damage of time, make it so that Auto attacking does NOT proc the Confusion damage but using skills 4-5 and you Heal, Utilities and Elite does. Torment i would make it so that you dont take damage when you're not moving. These changes should be for PvP and WvW only.

 

Something else that NEEDS to change. Their defense. They have simply too much. Stealth, mobility, teleporting, AoE CC, Ranged CC, Melee CC, Evades, Blocks (more towards Chrono - fine on power builds - they cant damage when blocking, broken as Condi builds as their conditions still melt face) They without a doubt need that looked at. They just have too much in terms of NOT getting hit. Its simply too hard to lock down and really get at a Mesmer all the while you are melting to their constant condi application

 

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"DinesenDK.5067" said:

> I totally agree that the Warrior should not be more broken. That was not where I was going at all. I was simply writing my experience against Scourges, and handing out a few ideas, and asking for ways to counter Scourge - I was not trying to tell what should be done.

>

> Resistance is fine as it is against other professions, and I don't mind working to win my 1vs1s - The close fights, are the most intense and fun to do afterall. However, it never feels like a close fight against Scourges, because I usually gets destroyed if I try to stick around to win.

>

> Perhaps you can help me? How do you take down Scourges, when you know you pretty much start from, and have to survive with no resistance and boons from the get go, and until you or the Scourge is dead? - Yes, I play the current SB metabuild.

 

Well, i dont play warrior (i find it boring as hell) but. Their biggest weakness: Lock down and range. You have access to Rifle and Long bow, maybe taking one in your build could help? On top of that you do have abilities and traits that are of potential good use against condition builds. Maybe its time to take a leaf out of us eles book? We are FORCED into speccing for as good condi removal as we can get, from traits and skills.

 

From an Ele perspective. What i do is jump in, get some attacks off, maybe some CC and such and then jump out, they normally just use their F skills on cool down so its about getting in, getting damage done and getting out. They cant run away from pretty much anyone, i will have to kite them every now and then but thats fine as long as i keep a tabs on my condi removal and such its fine. when they have done their typical "press all the f keys" i jump in again and just keep doing that. It does take time. Maybe a little too long as i am having to play VERY well to win

 

Not sure how good Warrior Rifle is but if its reasonably good, thats an option, i never lose to them on my Soulbeast Ranger - mostly as i have ways to countert them with 5k auto attack hits, ranged cc, melee cc, stealth, mobility and solid condi removal. Throw Boloas could be a good skill to take, Throw them, lock them in palce and fire away with either Rifle or Long Bow? You will still need to kite them, stay out of their AoE of death and likely (i mean what necro doesnt...) have staff so avoid the Mark spam that is oh so common.

 

Not sure what the Meta Spellbreaker builds is too be honest. Mind posting it?

[DinesenDK.5067]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"DinesenDK.5067" said:

> > I totally agree that the Warrior should not be more broken. That was not where I was going at all. I was simply writing my experience against Scourges, and handing out a few ideas, and asking for ways to counter Scourge - I was not trying to tell what should be done.

> >

> > Resistance is fine as it is against other professions, and I don't mind working to win my 1vs1s - The close fights, are the most intense and fun to do afterall. However, it never feels like a close fight against Scourges, because I usually gets destroyed if I try to stick around to win.

> >

> > Perhaps you can help me? How do you take down Scourges, when you know you pretty much start from, and have to survive with no resistance and boons from the get go, and until you or the Scourge is dead? - Yes, I play the current SB metabuild.

>

> Well, i dont play warrior (i find it boring as hell) but. Their biggest weakness: Lock down and range. You have access to Rifle and Long bow, maybe taking one in your build could help? On top of that you do have abilities and traits that are of potential good use against condition builds. Maybe its time to take a leaf out of us eles book? We are FORCED into speccing for as good condi removal as we can get, from traits and skills.

>

> From an Ele perspective. What i do is jump in, get some attacks off, maybe some CC and such and then jump out, they normally just use their F skills on cool down so its about getting in, getting damage done and getting out. They cant run away from pretty much anyone, i will have to kite them every now and then but thats fine as long as i keep a tabs on my condi removal and such its fine. when they have done their typical "press all the f keys" i jump in again and just keep doing that. It does take time. Maybe a little too long as i am having to play VERY well to win

>

> Not sure how good Warrior Rifle is but if its reasonably good, thats an option, i never lose to them on my Soulbeast Ranger - mostly as i have ways to countert them with 5k auto attack hits, ranged cc, melee cc, stealth, mobility and solid condi removal. Throw Boloas could be a good skill to take, Throw them, lock them in palce and fire away with either Rifle or Long Bow? You will still need to kite them, stay out of their AoE of death and likely (i mean what necro doesnt...) have staff so avoid the Mark spam that is oh so common.

>

> Not sure what the Meta Spellbreaker builds is too be honest. Mind posting it?

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAR4enMdAdhgt6CG7CciglrADJAkAKA4b4P8JWJH06qBA-jpRHQBC4CAwwjAQ2KDAgHAAAPIAlb/BA - This is my current build.

 

As you can see, I got a nice amount of resistance, but close to none cleanse = it's up hill against Scourges. As you feel forced into speccing Condi Cleanse, so do I feel forced into speccing Resistance with the amount of Condis in the current meta. You're right it is good, but best against other classes than Scourges/Necro.

 

Rifle applies very little pressure to your opponent, and is useless in spvp since you need to fight on Nodes to win.

 

I find it questionable that you find Warrior OP, but ranged 5k basic auto attack on your Ranger is perfectly fine - How is that balanced, when War need to be in melee to do dmg, and basic auto attack is not even near 5k? I've also seen Eles burst Scourges off the battlfield in 2 sec. I find that questionable as well.

 

If you think Warrior is unkillable then tell me how to kill Ele, Rangers, theives and Mesmers who simply disengage, and start the fight again at their choosing.

 

Anyways, thanks for the input, and happy holidays.. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"DinesenDK.5067" said:

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAR4enMdAdhgt6CG7CciglrADJAkAKA4b4P8JWJH06qBA-jpRHQBC4CAwwjAQ2KDAgHAAAPIAlb/BA - This is my current build.

>

> As you can see, I got a nice amount of resistance, but close to none cleanse = it's up hill against Scourges. As you feel forced into speccing Condi Cleanse, so do I feel forced into speccing Resistance with the amount of Condis in the current meta. You're right it is good, but best against other classes than Scourges/Necro.

>

> Rifle applies very little pressure to your opponent, and is useless in spvp since you need to fight on Nodes to win.

>

> I find it questionable that you find Warrior OP, but ranged 5k basic auto attack on your Ranger is perfectly fine - How is that balanced, when War need to be in melee to do dmg, and basic auto attack is not even near 5k? I've also seen Eles burst Scourges off the battlfield in 2 sec. I find that questionable as well.

>

> If you think Warrior is unkillable then tell me how to kill Ele, Rangers, theives and Mesmers who simply disengage, and start the fight again at their choosing.

>

> Anyways, thanks for the input, and happy holidays.. :)

 

Removal > Resistance.

I actually pointed out that WHEN condition builds become a threat to warrior is when they would be nerfed. Now they are a threat. Now they get nerfed. How do you think we ele feel? We are FORCED into speccing Water NO matter the build. No matter the spec. Water is a REQUIREMENT. Maybe its time to bring along some condition removal. Which melee set do you prefer? Greatsword or Dagger/Shield? It might be an option to drop one of them and picking up Long Bow or Rifle. A i have mentioned, they are VERY weak to ranged. Got little to no counter to ranged and lock down.

 

That is quite simple. Doing 5k auto attacks takes actually going zerk, so when you get them in melee (unless you're a necro...) They become VERY vunerable. Unlike Warrior who even if they are full zerk gear can still be 3k+ Armour and 20k health. Have insane broken passive and active defense, passive insanely strong healing that requires very little in terms of healing Power and they hit like a truck, shrug off most damage. I cant think of a single other spec that when FULL zerk gear is STILL as bunker with such high health and armor as "zerk" warrior...

 

ANyway, your build. What do you get from the runeset? Kinda seem a bit weak. Could pick up Lyssa for 5 condis removed when you use your elite as an example. Weapon swap condi removal sigils are also an option. Dropping Last stand for Clensing Ire could also be an option as well.

[Ario.8964]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> The primary design for confusion is 'burst'; it's expected to deliver a lot of stacks at once for low duration, punishing skill usage for a short while and then falling off quickly. Due to this difference in nature, we chose to leave it alone in this patch.

 

I know this was said awhile ago but I do want to bring it up as this has bothered me for a good amount of time: If it's supposed to punish skill usage and be a burst condition why is it 1) so easily applicable 2) have good duration when utilized by mesmer without any condi duration stats 3) still a ticking damage source in pvp instead of only active of skill usage?

 

Side note: I appreciate the fact that you all made a feedback thread for better communication about the patch. Thank you!

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > The primary design for confusion is 'burst'; it's expected to deliver a lot of stacks at once for low duration, punishing skill usage for a short while and then falling off quickly. Due to this difference in nature, we chose to leave it alone in this patch.

>

> I know this was said awhile ago but I do want to bring it up as this has bothered me for a good amount of time: If it's supposed to punish skill usage and be a burst condition why is it 1) so easily applicable 2) have good duration when utilized by mesmer without any condi duration stats 3) still a ticking damage source in pvp instead of only active of skill usage?

>

> Side note: I appreciate the fact that you all made a feedback thread for better communication about the patch. Thank you!

 

Even i can answer that. Its to make it so it isnt a useless condition in PvE and because they refuse to split balancing PvP, WvW and PvE up. We haev to have PvE buffs to already VERY strong conditions that only go to make the ALREADY strong conditions even stronger. As for duration. I have a feeling one set of the balance team want it to be "Burst" and the other want it to be sustained. Thus we get the mishmash Confusion condition we have today.

[reddie.5861]

tbh, i barely play but today i login and i try fight druid.

here how it went.

 

he fights he stealths he pops up somewhere miles away from me full health (appartenly full endurance also i dont know)

he fights

he dodges

he does some crap

he goes stealth

he ends up miles away from me

he fights

he dodges

he does some crap

he stealths

 

everytime he popped up again it was like fight reseted for him but not for me so obviously in long run im losing this fight.

the fuck happend to this druid? running is also a stupid idea because he has mobility over me so he would just wreck me while im trying to run.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> tbh, i barely play but today i login and i try fight druid.

> here how it went.

>

> he fights he stealths he pops up somewhere miles away from me full health (appartenly full endurance also i dont know)

> he fights

> he dodges

> he does some crap

> he goes stealth

> he ends up miles away from me

> he fights

> he dodges

> he does some crap

> he stealths

>

> everytime he popped up again it was like fight reseted for him but not for me so obviously in long run im losing this fight.

> the kitten happend to this druid? running is also a stupid idea because he has mobility over me so he would just wreck me while im trying to run.

 

Whats what happens when Anet thinks having a really low cool down high mobility skill with an evade AND heal combined into it is a good idea, combined with removing all conditions when going into the heal spam Avatar mode. I really think that it needs its self healing HEAVILY reduced because combined with the insane damage they can have, the mobility, the stealth it is just simply too much.

[FtoPScrub.5476]

What I think should happen based off my experience:

 

Mirage, Scourge, Firebrand need nerfs

Druid, Spellbreaker need slight nerfs

Daredevil, Holosmith, Chrono are ok

Herald, DH, Scrapper, Tempest, Reaper need slight buffs

Renegade, Berserker, Deadeye, Soulbeast, Weaver need buffs

 

What will probably happen:

Mirage and FB buffed

Burn guard nerfed

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> What I think should happen based off my experience:

>

> Mirage, Scourge, Firebrand need nerfs

> Druid, Spellbreaker need slight nerfs

> Daredevil, Holosmith, Chrono are ok

> Herald, DH, Scrapper, Tempest, Reaper need slight buffs

> Renegade, Berserker, Deadeye, Soulbeast, Weaver need buffs

>

> What will probably happen:

> Mirage and FB buffed

> Burn guard nerfed

 

Mesmer, Chrono, Mirage: Condi nerfs. Sustain reduced. Make it so they cant avoid 90% of damage via stealth, evades, teleports

Druid: Staff fixed. Longer cool down on Ancestral Grace, Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow increased cool down. So cant be activated every 15seconds. Self healing Via Druid traits and skills to be reduced.

 

Warrior, Berserker, Spellbreaker: Defensive reductions. Too much up time of blocks, invuls and everything else. They should NOT have so much access to defense. When they can be FULL Zerk gear and still have 20k+ health and 3k armour. Their defensive capabilities need to be nerfed

 

Herald in my opinion is in a good spot,t hey did lose that easy legend swap damage but they have good sustain, good damage, mobility, CC. Maybe give them a little more Condi removal but other than that. Good spot. Same goes for DH, they are very solid right now, not too strong. Not too weak. I would also disagree with Tempest needing much change, they do great damage, got good sustain, great boon access and such. They have the mobility skills to be able to escape. Like all Ele they will struggle against some builds but thats because said builds are too strong, rather then reduced than Tempest buffed. reaper is in a good spot when it comes to damage, they need mobility though. Badly.

 

Renegade needs buffs, the Short bow sucks. If that was fixed, i think they would be okay as they have some great options for trait lines to go down. I do think again, need some condi removal. This should be put into one of the starting trait lines, so that you arent forced to go Herald or Renegade for condi removal. Berserker, i think is an okay spot. Its VERY easy to play as when you're running all the defense traits though because you will have all that damage a zerk has but all the defense a bunker has (goes for all warrior specs...)

 

Deadeye i dont think should get any buffs until DJ is sorted out. No class should have a 1 hit kill button, other such skills have been nerfed and rightly so, this should join them. Its FAR too good in team fights and having it as 1,500 range is a bit much. I think Malice should also be changed. Made to ONLY gain a stack when the thief ATTACKS remove this passive generation, give it like a 3-5second cool downs so they cant just spam dagger 1 for a few seconds, get 5 stacks then run into stealth for DJ i am rather happy with my Soulbeast, i wouldnt say it needs "buff" could use some quality of life changes with regards to pet swapping and such in beast mode. Weaver needs better damage on sword. Its kinda sad that our new weapon is actually the weakest of all the weapons we have. Doesnt need huge changes just some buffs here and there on some skills. I would also make Ride the Lightening an Evade that removes impairment conditions. Given that if used to run it has a 30second cool down thats fine, as it can be WAY too easily countered using it as offense

[FaboBabo.3581]

Anyone who Thinks mirages or Mesmers in general are "unhitable" , "perma stealthed" or something like this is bad.

 

Learn ALL classes.

 

Condi burst ? If you get hit by 7 abilitys you will Sure die no matter if power or condi.

 

99% of the Playerbase will facetank "axe 2", second "axe 2" , "jaunt" , "axe 3" , "axe ambush" , "f2"

 

Then they will say ; MIRAGE CONDI BURST WITH ONE SKILK 30 STACK CONFU SO BROKEN"

 

 

GET GUD KIDZ

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"FaboBabo.3581" said:

> Anyone who Thinks mirages or Mesmers in general are "unhitable" , "perma stealthed" or something like this is bad.

>

> Learn ALL classes.

>

> Condi burst ? If you get hit by 7 abilitys you will Sure die no matter if power or condi.

>

> 99% of the Playerbase will facetank "axe 2", second "axe 2" , "jaunt" , "axe 3" , "axe ambush" , "f2"

>

> Then they will say ; MIRAGE CONDI BURST WITH ONE SKILK 30 STACK CONFU SO BROKEN"

>

>

> GET GUD KIDZ

 

Yeah i played Mesmer. I stopped because it got so boring. This is the problem with a few too many players that KNOW they are reliant on build to do anything, scared that WHEN it finally gets nerfed, and it WILL that they will lose the little bit they had that did all the work for them to kill someone. Condi Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage are the EASIEST condi builds to play. Bar none.

 

You might say "oh but Scourge" - that would be the same Scourge that is easily locked down, wrecked by range fire and nothing they can do about it. What exactly is Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage weakness? They have none. Fight going badly (it shouldnt, youre condi after all...) then you can teleport, leap and stealth away. You punish people through poorly designed conditions if they move, if they dont move. If they attack, if they dont attack. Hell they get punished for REMOVING said conditions but again get punished MORE by the fact they will be reapplied in big stacks in a few seconds anyway.

 

You can have as many removals as you like. Its NEVER enough for the sheer constant and never ending application and THAT is why people see the Condi Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage as being utterly broken. Because it is. Sorry if that shatters (lol) your idea that you were winning because you were "GUD" its not that at all.

[Orpheal.8263]

its not really the classes, that need heavy nerfs, its the freaking by Anet ignored Combat System, that needs finalyl significant changes... because All what Anet permanently did for years is doctorign aroudn the class skilsl and traits.

Its enough.. this games combat system is by now so extremely outdated and ruined by Anets ignorance, that the game has become in regard of balsance for everythign, that is not the current meta build of the month totalyl UNPLAYABLE and frustrative to the point you can even say the game has becoem for non meta builds completely rage inducing!!!

 

When I play my thief (Daredevil) now, I completely know, that I don't even need to try to fight anything else, that is not self a thief or a Daredevil, because I absolutely won't stand a chance agaisnt all this powercreeped BS Anet made out of the game, because If I'm not able to kill my enemy as a thief out of surprise within like 1-3 seconds, then I'm going to die most likely, because i fired off my powder and have to flee first to get again another chance to be able to burst, while all other classes can easily outheal or outsustain meanwhile all my damage, or can do, if its a mesmer (spec) the same and just reset the fight, until they are in such a masive advantage over me, that they can turn the battle within seconds to their favor..if I don't flee already

 

if I fight anythign that is based on a warrior, I wil ljust get stomped into the ground in seconds and deal no damage at all ,cause their ridiculous overpowered passive hels, invuls and blocks ect. make it possible for them to braindeadly just outheal everythign instantly i throw at them ...

if i fight anythign that is based on msmer, i just get instant killed through either shatters, or massive hard cc spam or condi spam of confusion, torment, bleeds, burnign asnd poison..so basicalyl alöl dot confions all at once and if its not the massive condi damage, then its like i kill practically myself in seconds ...

If i fight anythign thats based on necro, i ewill either get bombarded with condi spam to death, or ill get power reaped within seconds to death or get just instant kileld now by scourges which need to put just only their facking 3 shades on me and im dead

if its anything ranger related - most likely druids now, they just outheal everythign i throw at them or they cowardly spam you to death with rapidfire salves non stop out of nowhere, whiel they use trapper stealth to reposition either or they simpyl outsustain everythign you do, with invuls and stuns and other hard ccs

if its anything ele related they spam ypou to death with aoe damage, burns, lots of hard ccs from air attunement and can also prettzy much outheal you easily if played well... and yo udidnd had the advantage of getting a burstign first strike to put pressure onto them first so that they can concentrate too much on beign offensive

if its anythign engineer related, you get spammed to death with a mixture of condis and hard cc, while being revealed by them and them having with their turrts and all miuch better dps and support, than you with your lousy stupid thieves guild...

if its anythign guardian related, you get spammed to death either by their dh traps quickly, or you get burned to death with ridiculous amounts of Burn stacks that they can constantly keep on you ,because its basicalyl the only thing they do and are massively specialized on in regard of conditions with burning being the strongest dot condition of them all, unless you get to ramp up torment7confusion to max stacks, then you kill yourself basicalyl quicker, than burnign can do .. same as warriiros, they can easily outheal you, but unlike the warriro, cant at least run away quickly if needed ...

 

cant say somethign to revs, havent fought yet so many, cause the class pretty much died out quickly and is garbage that needs a compelte redesign in my view and should become better a rytlock only story relevant class for him,while it gets replaced for us as a total different new class that has nothing to do anymore with the heroes crap and energy nonsense that turns this class into the black sheep of them all other white ones by its design .

___

 

Anet can fix this game balance by now only, if they finalyl stop ignorign the real issue that the ganme has, that it is outdated and still runs on an outdated combat system, which has been ignored by ANet for the last 5 years 90% of all times to get updated and adapted to all the massive changes they permanently did to skilsl and traits, to the fact that they added new boons and conditions, which didnt exist on release day and never were originalyl part of the game balance of the combat system we use stil lsince 2012 in its original form.

The combat system, that was made under the design thought, that something liek Elite Specs don't exist!! The combat system, that was balanced aroudn the fact, that conditions like Torment, Slow and Taunt do not exist...

 

its no solution to doctor aroudn always only on skilsl and traits and expect from a game like GW2, that the complete rest of the ignored game mechancis just balance themself automatically. This includes especially the outdatzed base health system to which anet never has done Anythign to improve and rebalance it, which still is the 2012er health system, that was balanced aroudn the fact, that all classes excluding the E specs, and excluding everythign that didnt exist at that point, dealt basically fealt 30-50% less DPS, than what everythign snorts out by now in a blink of an eye ... which is the reason why we have the fealign, that everythign is overpowrred, why stuff like mirages can instant kill so easily, because we all have for the state of this game by now way too less health for this high DPS that classes have..

 

Anet woudl have either to adapt finally the heath system, or basically reduce all the damage that all classes do in this game generall by like 30-50%, so that the DPS that we deal becoems again in harmony with the health system. And first when DPS and Health System are in harmony with each other again ,then its again first time to make changes specificly on the classes.

[reddie.5861]

> @"Orpheal.8263" said:

> its not really the classes, that need heavy nerfs, its the freaking by Anet ignored Combat System, that needs finalyl significant changes... because All what Anet permanently did for years is doctorign aroudn the class skilsl and traits.

> Its enough.. this games combat system is by now so extremely outdated and ruined by Anets ignorance, that the game has become in regard of balsance for everythign, that is not the current meta build of the month totalyl UNPLAYABLE and frustrative to the point you can even say the game has becoem for non meta builds completely rage inducing!!!

>

> When I play my thief (Daredevil) now, I completely know, that I don't even need to try to fight anything else, that is not self a thief or a Daredevil, because I absolutely won't stand a chance agaisnt all this powercreeped BS Anet made out of the game, because If I'm not able to kill my enemy as a thief out of surprise within like 1-3 seconds, then I'm going to die most likely, because i fired off my powder and have to flee first to get again another chance to be able to burst, while all other classes can easily outheal or outsustain meanwhile all my damage, or can do, if its a mesmer (spec) the same and just reset the fight, until they are in such a masive advantage over me, that they can turn the battle within seconds to their favor..if I don't flee already

>

> if I fight anythign that is based on a warrior, I wil ljust get stomped into the ground in seconds and deal no damage at all ,cause their ridiculous overpowered passive hels, invuls and blocks ect. make it possible for them to braindeadly just outheal everythign instantly i throw at them ...

> if i fight anythign that is based on msmer, i just get instant killed through either shatters, or massive hard cc spam or condi spam of confusion, torment, bleeds, burnign asnd poison..so basicalyl alöl dot confions all at once and if its not the massive condi damage, then its like i kill practically myself in seconds ...

> If i fight anythign thats based on necro, i ewill either get bombarded with condi spam to death, or ill get power reaped within seconds to death or get just instant kileld now by scourges which need to put just only their kitten 3 shades on me and im dead

> if its anything ranger related - most likely druids now, they just outheal everythign i throw at them or they cowardly spam you to death with rapidfire salves non stop out of nowhere, whiel they use trapper stealth to reposition either or they simpyl outsustain everythign you do, with invuls and stuns and other hard ccs

> if its anything ele related they spam ypou to death with aoe damage, burns, lots of hard ccs from air attunement and can also prettzy much outheal you easily if played well... and yo udidnd had the advantage of getting a burstign first strike to put pressure onto them first so that they can concentrate too much on beign offensive

> if its anythign engineer related, you get spammed to death with a mixture of condis and hard cc, while being revealed by them and them having with their turrts and all miuch better dps and support, than you with your lousy stupid thieves guild...

> if its anythign guardian related, you get spammed to death either by their dh traps quickly, or you get burned to death with ridiculous amounts of Burn stacks that they can constantly keep on you ,because its basicalyl the only thing they do and are massively specialized on in regard of conditions with burning being the strongest dot condition of them all, unless you get to ramp up torment7confusion to max stacks, then you kill yourself basicalyl quicker, than burnign can do .. same as warriiros, they can easily outheal you, but unlike the warriro, cant at least run away quickly if needed ...

>

> cant say somethign to revs, havent fought yet so many, cause the class pretty much died out quickly and is garbage that needs a compelte redesign in my view and should become better a rytlock only story relevant class for him,while it gets replaced for us as a total different new class that has nothing to do anymore with the heroes crap and energy nonsense that turns this class into the black sheep of them all other white ones by its design .

> ___

>

> Anet can fix this game balance by now only, if they finalyl stop ignorign the real issue that the ganme has, that it is outdated and still runs on an outdated combat system, which has been ignored by ANet for the last 5 years 90% of all times to get updated and adapted to all the massive changes they permanently did to skilsl and traits, to the fact that they added new boons and conditions, which didnt exist on release day and never were originalyl part of the game balance of the combat system we use stil lsince 2012 in its original form.

> The combat system, that was made under the design thought, that something liek Elite Specs don't exist!! The combat system, that was balanced aroudn the fact, that conditions like Torment, Slow and Taunt do not exist...

>

> its no solution to doctor aroudn always only on skilsl and traits and expect from a game like GW2, that the complete rest of the ignored game mechancis just balance themself automatically. This includes especially the outdatzed base health system to which anet never has done Anythign to improve and rebalance it, which still is the 2012er health system, that was balanced aroudn the fact, that all classes excluding the E specs, and excluding everythign that didnt exist at that point, dealt basically fealt 30-50% less DPS, than what everythign snorts out by now in a blink of an eye ... which is the reason why we have the fealign, that everythign is overpowrred, why stuff like mirages can instant kill so easily, because we all have for the state of this game by now way too less health for this high DPS that classes have..

>

> Anet woudl have either to adapt finally the heath system, or basically reduce all the damage that all classes do in this game generall by like 30-50%, so that the DPS that we deal becoems again in harmony with the health system. And first when DPS and Health System are in harmony with each other again ,then its again first time to make changes specificly on the classes.

 

well thats some how i feel on thief but i dont really play enough to actually keep up with all crap barely played PoF so dont know what classes can do.

but from my thief as i knew it was i feel like i lost my role.

 

im not the stealth char anymore others can do it better (no the heart seeker nerf doesnt change shit for me i can still do equal amount of stacks as before)

i feel like im not highest spike char anymore either, i got completely wrecked within seconds by ele today where avarage dmg on me was 2,5k ++ on maurauder armor with soldier trinkets, imagine how fast i died. wont even mention other classes (not saying ele is OP btw i enjoy seeing this class back in the fields being usefull.)

mobility maybe in sPvP but in WvW i doubt we are still the top dogs.

 

beside that i dont think thief is all that bad right now, i just think thief lost its status to shine at certain things.

cus everything and every1 got buffed UP in my eyes while HP/thoughness etc stay the same and thief got hit by some shitty nerfs

i dont think balance right now (wvw wise) is any good (not that it ever has been good) balance in WvW went down with HoT pretty fast before that it wasnt perfect either but a hell alot better then its now.

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

I don't PvP, so my feedback will be related to PVE play. My concern is if the conditions get too ramp like, that will make condi cleanse stronger. The main concern I have with the balance patches is the sway of balance when it comes to PVE fights. Had this problem with HoT, as classes were balanced content wasn't, suddenly things just started hitting really hard or professions needed a complete re-gear to even be usable. We could really use a stat swap option to ease the burden of class revamps. It gets expensive when in the last year at one time I had 12 toons needing a complete gear overhaul.

[Ivantreil.3092]

> @"Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921" said:

> I don't PvP, so my feedback will be related to PVE play. My concern is if the conditions get too ramp like, that will make condi cleanse stronger. The main concern I have with the balance patches is the sway of balance when it comes to PVE fights. Had this problem with HoT, as classes were balanced content wasn't, suddenly things just started hitting really hard or professions needed a complete re-gear to even be usable. We could really use a stat swap option to ease the burden of class revamps. It gets expensive when in the last year at one time I had 12 toons needing a complete gear overhaul.

 

That feature exists, its called legendary gear, and i doubt anet would make a cheaper version of it, at all.

[IceTcK.4358]

Im still waiting for the balancing, nothing has changed.

[Ivantreil.3092]

> @"IceTcK.4358" said:

> Im still waiting for the balancing, nothing has changed.

 

Dont get your hopes too high, knowing their balance patch, some classes will remain like this for the rest of the meta, until a new expansion hits, sb, holo, and firebrand are some of those who will remain solid due to the nature of their spec, and who knows, maybe even more longer like druid.

[otto.5684]

> @"FaboBabo.3581" said:

> Anyone who Thinks mirages or Mesmers in general are "unhitable" , "perma stealthed" or something like this is bad.

>

> Learn ALL classes.

>

> Condi burst ? If you get hit by 7 abilitys you will Sure die no matter if power or condi.

>

> 99% of the Playerbase will facetank "axe 2", second "axe 2" , "jaunt" , "axe 3" , "axe ambush" , "f2"

>

> Then they will say ; MIRAGE CONDI BURST WITH ONE SKILK 30 STACK CONFU SO BROKEN"

>

>

> GET GUD KIDZ

 

I really find these comments stupid. You are not instantly going to kill anyone with half an idea what they are doing in under 20 secs anyway. Clearly doing damage, while breaking cc and being invulnerable is broken.

 

Also, Why should not classes without mega cleave have any chance to fight mirage?

[Zsoak.5409]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> What other class could run FULL zerk gear and still have 20k health and 3k armor? This is just poor balance. When they have like 0.000001seconds of time when they can be attacked in a fight, it says something.

 

Sorry I've read this statement from you like 4 times in 4 different posts and now I just couldn't resist to correct it.

 

I don't know where are you taking these numbers from, but no, no class could run full zerk gear and have 20k health and 3k+ armor.

Warrior in full zerk has around 19k health and base 2.3k armor. If you account the passive toughness (only when above 75% health) from Defense line, then it's 2.5k armor.

 

Also, Endure Pain (and it's passive variant) are both 2-2 sec in PvP. Shield Block is 3 sec. Resistance uptime (with Berserker Stance) and Full Counter cooldown is also nerfed both in PvP and WvW. I fail to see how it sums up to 0.000001 seconds when 'warriors can be attacked'. Also as you know Endure Pain and Block works only with direct damage, and Resistance with condi damage (and thus a boon, it's totally corruptable/strippable). If you brainlessly pop everything at once, yes you might be nigh invulnerable for a few secs, then gg. It's crazy I know, but most warriors actually know when to pop these defenses, and I also know it can be frustrating to see 'Block' / 'Invulnerable' / '0 dmg' when you were expecting your burst crit numbers for example.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying warrior is underpowered and in need of buffs in the slightest.

Instead, I do believe it's on the stronger end of PvP/WvW spectrum right now.

I just don't think exaggerating things helps.

I also think there are far more broken things in PvP/WvW right now than warrior.

 

 

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> Yep. That is the problem. Warrior does everything too well. Damage, Sustain, Mobility, defense, CC. Everything. I can't think of another class that can do everything as well as a Warrior can.

>

 

Also, a comment on this one. Yes, warrior _can do_ most of things well. No, warrior _cannot do_ everything too well _at the same time_. Let me explain.

 

Unlike some condi specs which could do their thing happily in dire gear, warriors are _forced_ to be in full marauder / zerk set, otherwise their damage is a joke. Even then, I don't think warrior damage is _that great_. Just take a look at some PvE numbers, power warrior is at rock bottom, just compare it with Holo or DH for example, not to mention Weavers. Which I guess is compensated by the warrior's stronger defense capabilities. (Not saying that Holo or DH don't have invulns / blocks etc, but still.)

 

Let's talk about weapons. The only weapon set which does respectable damage is Axes. (Even then, hitting for example a full dire FB with Axes feels like hitting a brick wall.) Axe 4 and Axe 5 does awesome damage now, but then you loose the defense from offhand Shield. Also, with the Axe weaponset comes no CC and no mobility, only damage. You can take Greatsword for mobility, then the only thing which does great damage on it is 100b, which you can reliably use mostly only on downed people. You can take Dagger mainhand for utility (leap, boonstrip) but the damage is crap. And then you're still purely melee - if you want to sacrifice one of your weapon sets for a ranged option, the best you can take is Rifle which is a one-trick pony with no pressure damage (also won't work well with most Spellbreaker mechanisms), and Longbow is a complete joke.

 

And all this I just wrote up, is _not a rant_. It's _completely fine_. What would be wrong is to have a weapon set which could do everything too well with no downsides. The best meta sets right now are either GS / Dagger+Sh or GS / Axe+Sh but both comes with their own downsides.

Again, I don't think anything should be buffed, there are still some great weapon options you can find which fit your playstyle.

But again, I don't think exaggerating things to absurdity helps.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Zsoak.5409" said:

> Sorry I've read this statement from you like 4 times in 4 different posts and now I just couldn't resist to correct it.

I don't know where are you taking these numbers from, but no, no class could run full zerk gear and have 20k health and 3k+ armor.

Warrior in full zerk has around 19k health and base 2.3k armor. If you account the passive toughness (only when above 75% health) from Defense line, then it's 2.5k armor.

 

I you are like the rest of the Warriors (who doesnt...) that takes Defense traitline. Now add that passive "here have some more unnecessary defense" traits where you get an extra (upto) 320 toughness JUST for picking that line. Neither of them you have to sacrifice anything for, both a little too passive. Just stay above 75% health (isnt too hard....) and give yourself Retal (again is it that hard!?) On top of that you get another unnecessary cool down reduction on your shield blocks (which most Warriors take...) Then you of course all take Last stance for even longer duration of your stances.

 

Okay so its not 3k Armour, but 2,500+ all for FREE isn't too bad either. Easily the best defensive traitline in the game. On top of a class with some of the best (already...) defenses and passive heals in the game. In WvW, you will have like 20k health quite easily due to the health increases that game mode comes with as well. So, 20k health. 2.5k Amour. Plenty of blocks, invuls, mobility, damage. What other class can be FULL zerk gear and still be so defensive?

 

 

[Arlette.9684]

Sooo all the people that were crying about Mirage one shotting them last month, refocused their cries to condi now. Well newsflash, guess what will happen when they nerf it?

Would you be happier getting 1 shotted instead?

Ask yourselves this before you keep pushing this agenda.

 

Furthermore Mirage was designed to be the condi elite spec by ANet. If they decide to nerf the condi on it, they’ll have to make a major overhaul on the entire specialization. Logged on my gunzerker couple nights ago, fought a condi mirage, ended in a stalemate as he couldn’t keep enough condi up to kill me and I couldn’t pin him down to burst him.

 

It seems the problem some of you have with confusion, stems from you mindlessly bashing your auto attacks while having 12+ stacks. That is entirely your fault for rolling your face on the keyboard mindlessly.

 

The only thing that needs to be nerfed on Mirage to bring it in line is Elusive Mind.

 

Let’s try to see other classes out there and what needs to be nerfed on those, shall we?

 

Warrior: Increased icd for passive Endure Pain proc.

Lower duration of Winds of Disenchantment

Lower radius of that new meditation that rips boons (can’t be bothered to look up the name).

Potentially buff Healing Signet SLIGHTLY or Lower cast time on the Spellbreaker heal to balance out the scales after nerfing Passive Endure Pain proc.

 

Thief: Increase cost of sword 2 so as to make it less abusable, and end hit n run warrs.

Increase CnD stealth duration SLIGHTLY to make it a viable substitution for pistol.

 

Ranger: Overhaul on staff and the survivability boost it provides, it’s just too good at what it does.

Major overhaul on the entire profession, to make it not a complete bore to play. (Haven’t played mine for more than several hours since HoT because of how repetitive and uninspired it is)

 

Holosmith: Ok you got me, Holosmith would be in a pretty good spot if it had a little more condi cleansing options that cleanse a few more conditions. That and some QoL improvements like having to physically press “Stow Photon Forge” to get the minor trait proc as opposed to just switching out of it into any other kit and proccing it that way as well (I can’t stress just how frustrating that feels when you’re in the middle of a fight and need an extra click to get that thing off or lose the proc)

 

Revenant: The only other profession (see Holosmith) that requires a pocket Firebrand to be competitive. A LOT more condi cleansing options are needed to make this build even remotely playable.

 

Weaver: Sword needs a major overhaul to make it less of a clunky weapon choice. Also a redesign in the semi-attunement concept of the class is needed so you don’t end up shotting yourself in the foot missing out on those key 4-5 skills that you’re suddenly attuned differently and can’t use to save your life, quite literally.

 

Necro needs SLIGHT buff to survivability, Reaper potentially needs a SLIGHT damage buff still. The distance covered by the portal could be increased a bit.

 

What am I missing here? Hmmm...

 

Edit: A Very Merry Christmas to you all! :smiley: