12- 12 Necromancer Changes

[Anchoku.8142]

Let us remember the good news from this patch.

 

Axe was buffed sideways but unholy fever opened a spot for using Fear.

Epidemic was not nerfed

Plague signet was not nerfed

Condi transfers will send conditions with more duration left

Dhuumfire received a bug fix

Fear and Terror were not nerfed

Scepter was not nerfed

 

Any other shiny things on the bright side?

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > That is a valid point vitali, and you bring up points I haven't considered. Though, I must clarify, I'm not asking for Pinnacle of Strength to work like awaken the pain in that it should reduce the bonus to condi damage we get from might, no. Rather I a masking for the opposite; for awaken the pain to work like pinnacle of strength so as to allow chill bleed hybrid reapers to work better. Currently, the way awaken the pain is right now, reaper's condi output is hampered by the trait and as for the other two trits, the changes to unholy fervor have yet to be tested so I can't speak for it, while chill of death is too situational in my opinion to be of much use. As I see it right now, the only option for hybrid reapers is to opt out of spite in favour of curses or blood magic along with soul reaping.

> > >

> > > p.s. I mainly speak from a pve stand point, more specifically t4 fractals and raids, I have some experience with pvp/wvw but I am not as learned as others when it comes to them as I am not excited by them. Additionally, the recent changes to on interrupt traits and defiance bars, along with this conversation, has given me something I want to try out on my warrior: hybrid sword/torch+hammer. I know it'll probably be horrible, but at best, it'll be like a train wreck: you just have to see it.

> >

> > Considering they dont want reaper to be condition i doubt you will see this change. To be hoenst reaper should not even have the bleed on chill trait anymore.

> > Scourge has no real power trait options within its kit why should a power spec like reaper have a condition trait on its grand master. Every other trait the only conditions that come up are movement impairing conditions.

>

> The said trait is in core necromancer, it can effectively affect all e-spec (or not) of the necromancer. E-specs should not be restricted to a single kind of damage, unlike what you seem to think. Honnestly, what you say about the reaper is somewhat concerning. The reaper, right now, have reduced survivability so it's not tanky and it doesn't have "support", this litterally leave him just one choice which DPS in which he is not even on par with the DPS top dogs. And you would want to restricted this dps to power damage? Even weaver can do more than just power DPS.

 

Yes i know the said trait is in core necromancer how ever

He mentions using hybrid reaper which is clearly not the intention of reaper which is why i bring up reaper condition trait. The hopes for condi reaper are being dashed sense its release and now they have made a full on choice that they want it to be power brawler while letting scourge be condition support. Thus it really does not need the trait. So of course a trait in the power traitline wont work very well for what he is trying to use it for in that particular situation.

 

Scourge is pretty much locked into condition which contradicts what you just said. about a e spec being singled out to a single kind of damage.

At this point reaper is struggling to keep up with the top dps dogs and still using a condition build. Yes reaper has lackluster sustain but hey you can partly blame core for that its sustain is pretty weak. So of course the E specs sustain will be weak. I think reaper could use a power boost even more from where it is now to compensate for that extra drain on shroud but the fact that people are still fighting for its condition side to do more at this point is some what alarming.

 

Yes weaver does more than just power dps but ele has never been a profession to deal a single type of damage. Ele's core function of swapping through elements prevents it from doing that thus its a bad example compare to in this case. A better example would be Berserker vs Spell breaker one is clearly more condition focused while the other is more power focus from purely an e spec side.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > > That is a valid point vitali, and you bring up points I haven't considered. Though, I must clarify, I'm not asking for Pinnacle of Strength to work like awaken the pain in that it should reduce the bonus to condi damage we get from might, no. Rather I a masking for the opposite; for awaken the pain to work like pinnacle of strength so as to allow chill bleed hybrid reapers to work better. Currently, the way awaken the pain is right now, reaper's condi output is hampered by the trait and as for the other two trits, the changes to unholy fervor have yet to be tested so I can't speak for it, while chill of death is too situational in my opinion to be of much use. As I see it right now, the only option for hybrid reapers is to opt out of spite in favour of curses or blood magic along with soul reaping.

> > > >

> > > > p.s. I mainly speak from a pve stand point, more specifically t4 fractals and raids, I have some experience with pvp/wvw but I am not as learned as others when it comes to them as I am not excited by them. Additionally, the recent changes to on interrupt traits and defiance bars, along with this conversation, has given me something I want to try out on my warrior: hybrid sword/torch+hammer. I know it'll probably be horrible, but at best, it'll be like a train wreck: you just have to see it.

> > >

> > > Considering they dont want reaper to be condition i doubt you will see this change. To be hoenst reaper should not even have the bleed on chill trait anymore.

> > > Scourge has no real power trait options within its kit why should a power spec like reaper have a condition trait on its grand master. Every other trait the only conditions that come up are movement impairing conditions.

> >

> > The said trait is in core necromancer, it can effectively affect all e-spec (or not) of the necromancer. E-specs should not be restricted to a single kind of damage, unlike what you seem to think. Honnestly, what you say about the reaper is somewhat concerning. The reaper, right now, have reduced survivability so it's not tanky and it doesn't have "support", this litterally leave him just one choice which DPS in which he is not even on par with the DPS top dogs. And you would want to restricted this dps to power damage? Even weaver can do more than just power DPS.

>

> Yes i know the said trait is in core necromancer how ever

> He mentions using hybrid reaper which is clearly not the intention of reaper which is why i bring up reaper condition trait. The hopes for condi reaper are being dashed sense its release and now they have made a full on choice that they want it to be power brawler while letting scourge be condition support. Thus it really does not need the trait. So of course a trait in the power traitline wont work very well for what he is trying to use it for in that particular situation.

>

> Scourge is pretty much locked into condition which contradicts what you just said. about a e spec being singled out to a single kind of damage.

> At this point reaper is struggling to keep up with the top dps dogs and still using a condition build. Yes reaper has lackluster sustain but hey you can partly blame core for that its sustain is pretty weak. So of course the E specs sustain will be weak. I think reaper could use a power boost even more from where it is now to compensate for that extra drain on shroud but the fact that people are still fighting for its condition side to do more at this point is some what alarming.

>

> Yes weaver does more than just power dps but ele has never been a profession to deal a single type of damage. Ele's core function of swapping through elements prevents it from doing that thus its a bad example compare to in this case. A better example would be Berserker vs Spell breaker one is clearly more condition focused while the other is more power focus from purely an e spec side.

 

Let me disagree with you, just _desert shroud_ is enough to make scourge a good power dps. Simply put, this skill is free instant power dps on top of what you do at the same time. It also allow your non shroud skills to benefit from _death perception_ and it far from being negligible when you happen to use well for example. There is more to scourge than just "condition damage" and reaper need to be more than "power damage" to be an healthy spec.

 

Spellbreaker is probably as viable as a condi spec than core warrior like berserker is as viable as a power spec than core warrior. The difference in those 2 e-spec is not based on their kind of damage focus, Berserker base it's gameplay on a kind of "frenzy" where he build damage momentum while SB is more of a defensive e-spec (even boon ripping can be view as a defensive mechanism here). That's where the difference lie, not in "damage".

 

In case of reaper and scourge, the reaper changed quite a lot since it's release. The reaper was suppose to be the monster that you can't shake off and became the glass canon that burst you down (be it throught condition or power damage). While the scourge is supposed to be the guy that controle the field, a source of support for it's allies and a source of doom for it's foes. The "doom" part can be done throught condition as well as throught power damage. In regard of damage, reaper will have sustained condi damage and burst power damage while scourge will have sustained power damage and burst condi damage. This is where the differences lies.

 

There is more to e-specs than: "Oh gawd! condi trait!". E-specs give new gameplay to a professions and damage types are not "gameplay" they are part of it but they shouldn't in any way become a restriction.

[Sephylon.4938]

I withdraw my objection about the change to stick and move. After Looking at my warrior for a few seconds with this trait on, it actually does reduce the bonus to condi damage might gives you and works exactly like necro's awaken the pain trait. It is literally awaken the pain on a grandmaster minor trait.