Mesmer, Distortion, good job anet....

[Kenny.5826]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> Balance feedback for mesmers belongs in the mesmer profession forum.

 

I am sorry, I am annoyed.

But this is the response? This is one of the biggest changes to chrono to date and all we get is "not at this place." Where distortion is literally of the the most game defining mechanics in raiding and fractals not just for mesmers but for the whole squad/party.

 

The distortion mechanic rewarded mesmers and team members. It rewarded mesmers the ability to have a much higher skill ceiling. It made mesmers not only a quickness/alacrity bot where you just mash your rotation over and over to keep up perm quickness. No it actually disrupts your rotation and rewarded you if you done correctly to keep up quickness and avoid damage. Where if it was not well done, you lose quickness up time and do not avoid the attack. It This risk and reward is emphasised in 100cm arkk where when you distort balls it increases your party's damage and if you fail people stand in red puddle and die. It separated new/average/good/great mesmers.

From new mesmers where keeping up quickness and alacrity is hard to great mesmers able to keep up quickness/alacrity seamlessly whilst assisting the team. Now I will just use the same rotation over and over and over. Yay... Fun...

 

It rewarded party members trusting each other by allowing team members to trust the chrono with increase in dps. It gave both side a feeling of symbiosis. Chrono feels good because he is able to increase his team's dps and help them survive whilst the team is feels good by increasing their own dps and able to trust a fellow chrono.

 

We not only lost one of the game defining mechanics to our class we just lost one of our class Identity in terms of end game fractal/raids. And not only do you not compensate us fairly you decide to give us aegis? really? aegis? really? on a 5 seconds cool down.

 

Did you even think about the amount of time chronos put in the time to master this one trait where you just made irrelevant. Why would you change it now?

 

Do you have any idea how many chronos feel after not only losing one of the class' identity but the hard work they put in?

[Shirlias.8104]

Finally.

Thanks ANET.

[Daedalus Palamaon.8934]

Oh noooooo - people have to take responsibility for the damage they take in raids and not rely on a crutch skill that broke the game and allowed you to skip phases....

 

/s

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Daedalus Palamaon.8934" said:

> Oh noooooo - people have to take responsibility for the damage they take in raids and not rely on a crutch skill that broke the game and allowed you to skip phases....

>

> /s

 

Your sarcasm is pretty off point. If you want to be responsible for the damage you take, you might as well play solo. The whole idea of the high-end group content is using teamplay and group synergy.

[ReaverKane.7598]

I'm on the fence here... As someone that built a guardian has his main class because i wanted to tank, it's nice to see that Guardian (especially firebrand) is closer to being able to do that.

On the other hand, i spent 400g gearing up a Minstrel's chrono to be more consistent on my relatively newb raid group, and just started being consistent with my distorts to see those fail right when i'm starting to do well with those... Kinda sux.

Now i just need to relearn what attacks can be blocked with aegis.

As for the timing, i think it will be more or less the same thing. You'll have to time it as a distort (so within 1s) because you give yourself distort not aegis. So if you do it well there shouldn't be any "junk damage" taking away the aegis. But i do think that aegis should block more than just the one hit though. As a guardian main, i can't tell you how many times i died just after casting aegis because of some weird damage tick i didn't expect.

[musu.9205]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> I'm on the fence here... As someone that built a guardian has his main class because i wanted to tank, it's nice to see that Guardian (especially firebrand) is closer to being able to do that.

> On the other hand, i spent 400g gearing up a Minstrel's chrono to be more consistent on my relatively newb raid group, and just started being consistent with my distorts to see those fail right when i'm starting to do well with those... Kinda sux.

> Now i just need to relearn what attacks can be blocked with aegis.

> As for the timing, i think it will be more or less the same thing. You'll have to time it as a distort (so within 1s) because you give yourself distort not aegis. So if you do it well there shouldn't be any "junk damage" taking away the aegis. But i do think that aegis should block more than just the one hit though. As a guardian main, i can't tell you how many times i died just after casting aegis because of some weird damage tick i didn't expect.

 

there is no dedicated tank in this game since aggro management is non exist .

chrono tank is simply due to it loses least of dps . but hey keep dream

[Daedalus Palamaon.8934]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Daedalus Palamaon.8934" said:

> > Oh noooooo - people have to take responsibility for the damage they take in raids and not rely on a crutch skill that broke the game and allowed you to skip phases....

> >

> > /s

>

> Your sarcasm is pretty off point. If you want to be responsible for the damage you take, you might as well play solo. The whole idea of the high-end group content is using teamplay and group synergy.

 

It literally broke the game. It promoted a sense of play that encouraged people to skip phases, and take classes that did not meet this elite sense of speed clears. The whole point of a raid is to play the whole damn thing, not to skip phases. Now some of yo may argue that "oh ANET put it in so it ok" - but that argument assumes ANET meant for you to play the raids like that. I for one enjoy the changes because not only will this allow more people to play mesmers (as a mesmer I am open to more people playing) - but, it will also allow raids to pick more classes since speed clears and phase skips are no longer a thing. Want to take a barrier scourge (and you would now with the recent changes... power word shield anyone :D ). The people whoa seem to be complaining seem to be in two camps: the ones who use mesmer distort to cheese the raid bosses and do speed clears, or people who benefited from the mesmer distort and used to avoid damage rather then taking responsibility. Stop complaining and learn the changes, it isn't that hard. Ya'll make it seem like its your day job.

 

BTW - Aegis is fine, it just doesn't make you invul for 3 seconds.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Daedalus Palamaon.8934" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Daedalus Palamaon.8934" said:

> > > Oh noooooo - people have to take responsibility for the damage they take in raids and not rely on a crutch skill that broke the game and allowed you to skip phases....

> > >

> > > /s

> >

> > Your sarcasm is pretty off point. If you want to be responsible for the damage you take, you might as well play solo. The whole idea of the high-end group content is using teamplay and group synergy.

>

> It literally broke the game. It promoted a sense of play that encouraged people to skip phases, and take classes that did not meet this elite sense of speed clears. The whole point of a raid is to play the whole kitten thing, not to skip phases. Now some of yo may argue that "oh ANET put it in so it ok" - but that argument assumes ANET meant for you to play the raids like that. I for one enjoy the changes because not only will this allow more people to play mesmers (as a mesmer I am open to more people playing) - but, it will also allow raids to pick more classes since speed clears and phase skips are no longer a thing. Want to take a barrier scourge (and you would now with the recent changes... power word shield anyone :D ). The people whoa seem to be complaining seem to be in two camps: the ones who use mesmer distort to cheese the raid bosses and do speed clears, or people who benefited from the mesmer distort and used to avoid damage rather then taking responsibility. Stop complaining and learn the changes, it isn't that hard. Ya'll make it seem like its your day job.

>

> BTW - Aegis is fine, it just doesn't make you invul for 3 seconds.

 

First off, I'm not complaining about the change, I'm only criticizing the argument "distort is bad because it made you ignore stuff". Yes, it made you ignore stuff, *by having an actual teamplay*. Distort - or giving Aegis for that matter - is an active interaction, which is the most fun type. Buffs and heals are all well and good, but they feel a lot more passive.

 

Furthermore, the skips will still be a part of the meta. People will still do no-updraft Gorse, people will still dps the heck out of Cairn and never see most of its attacks. I don't see any reason for a major shift in meta based on this change alone. It is still preferable to pick the optimal classes for any given encounter because it still reduces the chances of failure and groups will still be unwilling to risk. Especially true for pug groups.

 

The only thing that probably changes is the required skill for playing a chrono. Although that's not 100% sure. You don't want to be too hasty with your Aegis, as any chip damage can take it off, so you tight timing is still preferable.

 

And no, I don't really want a barrier scourge. The only place where I can see it being useful is Gorseval's retal phase, but you'll probably lose more group dps by having a scourge than by having your dps classes time their rotations accordingly.

[Eldar.5146]

I don't know how people think this was a good change. It changes nothing except making chrono easier to play. You still don't do any mechanics and they have already shown that they can make bosses where distort is useless.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"musu.9205" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > I'm on the fence here... As someone that built a guardian has his main class because i wanted to tank, it's nice to see that Guardian (especially firebrand) is closer to being able to do that.

> > On the other hand, i spent 400g gearing up a Minstrel's chrono to be more consistent on my relatively newb raid group, and just started being consistent with my distorts to see those fail right when i'm starting to do well with those... Kinda sux.

> > Now i just need to relearn what attacks can be blocked with aegis.

> > As for the timing, i think it will be more or less the same thing. You'll have to time it as a distort (so within 1s) because you give yourself distort not aegis. So if you do it well there shouldn't be any "junk damage" taking away the aegis. But i do think that aegis should block more than just the one hit though. As a guardian main, i can't tell you how many times i died just after casting aegis because of some weird damage tick i didn't expect.

>

> there is no dedicated tank in this game since aggro management is non exist .

> chrono tank is simply due to it loses least of dps . but hey keep dream

 

Well, this game actually has the best aggro management out there, just have more toughness than the rest, and except in a few bosses that have randomized targeting built in, you'll be the tank. That's how KC, VG and other bosses are doable. This has been the case since release, toughness has always determined the tank. And on top of that you have taunt (not that most tank worthy classes have taunt, but hey... It exists)

But yes, you're right in saying that chrono is used as the tank (by using toughness to manage aggro) because it's strength lies mostly on its support potential, so it's no loss to the group if that support is also the tank. Same thing could be said for a Firebrand. Mirage is now a very viable DPS option for mesmer (chrono wasn't), hence Firebrand becoming a promising support/tank option, since it can already maintain quickness and other boons on the party, and now that distort is aegis (which guard can output way more reliably) the only loss is alacrity, which would require a support-oriented Renegade to output consistently.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"musu.9205" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > I'm on the fence here... As someone that built a guardian has his main class because i wanted to tank, it's nice to see that Guardian (especially firebrand) is closer to being able to do that.

> > > On the other hand, i spent 400g gearing up a Minstrel's chrono to be more consistent on my relatively newb raid group, and just started being consistent with my distorts to see those fail right when i'm starting to do well with those... Kinda sux.

> > > Now i just need to relearn what attacks can be blocked with aegis.

> > > As for the timing, i think it will be more or less the same thing. You'll have to time it as a distort (so within 1s) because you give yourself distort not aegis. So if you do it well there shouldn't be any "junk damage" taking away the aegis. But i do think that aegis should block more than just the one hit though. As a guardian main, i can't tell you how many times i died just after casting aegis because of some weird damage tick i didn't expect.

> >

> > there is no dedicated tank in this game since aggro management is non exist .

> > chrono tank is simply due to it loses least of dps . but hey keep dream

>

> Well, this game actually has the best aggro management out there, just have more toughness than the rest, and except in a few bosses that have randomized targeting built in, you'll be the tank. That's how KC, VG and other bosses are doable. This has been the case since release, toughness has always determined the tank. And on top of that you have taunt (not that most tank worthy classes have taunt, but hey... It exists)

> But yes, you're right in saying that chrono is used as the tank (by using toughness to manage aggro) because it's strength lies mostly on its support potential, so it's no loss to the group if that support is also the tank. Same thing could be said for a Firebrand. Mirage is now a very viable DPS option for mesmer (chrono wasn't), hence Firebrand becoming a promising support/tank option, since it can already maintain quickness and other boons on the party, and now that distort is aegis (which guard can output way more reliably) the only loss is alacrity, which would require a support-oriented Renegade to output consistently.

 

The problem with this is having an extra support. True, the Firebrand and Renegade will deal way more damage than a chrono, but still not as much as a dedicated damage dealer. And you'll still be looking for two specific classes rather than one. And one that people had and played for more than an year.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"musu.9205" said:

> > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > I'm on the fence here... As someone that built a guardian has his main class because i wanted to tank, it's nice to see that Guardian (especially firebrand) is closer to being able to do that.

> > > > On the other hand, i spent 400g gearing up a Minstrel's chrono to be more consistent on my relatively newb raid group, and just started being consistent with my distorts to see those fail right when i'm starting to do well with those... Kinda sux.

> > > > Now i just need to relearn what attacks can be blocked with aegis.

> > > > As for the timing, i think it will be more or less the same thing. You'll have to time it as a distort (so within 1s) because you give yourself distort not aegis. So if you do it well there shouldn't be any "junk damage" taking away the aegis. But i do think that aegis should block more than just the one hit though. As a guardian main, i can't tell you how many times i died just after casting aegis because of some weird damage tick i didn't expect.

> > >

> > > there is no dedicated tank in this game since aggro management is non exist .

> > > chrono tank is simply due to it loses least of dps . but hey keep dream

> >

> > Well, this game actually has the best aggro management out there, just have more toughness than the rest, and except in a few bosses that have randomized targeting built in, you'll be the tank. That's how KC, VG and other bosses are doable. This has been the case since release, toughness has always determined the tank. And on top of that you have taunt (not that most tank worthy classes have taunt, but hey... It exists)

> > But yes, you're right in saying that chrono is used as the tank (by using toughness to manage aggro) because it's strength lies mostly on its support potential, so it's no loss to the group if that support is also the tank. Same thing could be said for a Firebrand. Mirage is now a very viable DPS option for mesmer (chrono wasn't), hence Firebrand becoming a promising support/tank option, since it can already maintain quickness and other boons on the party, and now that distort is aegis (which guard can output way more reliably) the only loss is alacrity, which would require a support-oriented Renegade to output consistently.

>

> The problem with this is having an extra support. True, the Firebrand and Renegade will deal way more damage than a chrono, but still not as much as a dedicated damage dealer. And you'll still be looking for two specific classes rather than one. And one that people had and played for more than an year.

 

I'm not saying the change will happen immediately, but that now there are options. Of course there will be resistance, and the big meta-guilds will probably be the ones that will spearhead any change if nothing else just to spice things up a bit. But i'm still not very happy that my investment on building my chrono so i could tank is getting kind of ruined.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"musu.9205" said:

> > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > I'm on the fence here... As someone that built a guardian has his main class because i wanted to tank, it's nice to see that Guardian (especially firebrand) is closer to being able to do that.

> > > > On the other hand, i spent 400g gearing up a Minstrel's chrono to be more consistent on my relatively newb raid group, and just started being consistent with my distorts to see those fail right when i'm starting to do well with those... Kinda sux.

> > > > Now i just need to relearn what attacks can be blocked with aegis.

> > > > As for the timing, i think it will be more or less the same thing. You'll have to time it as a distort (so within 1s) because you give yourself distort not aegis. So if you do it well there shouldn't be any "junk damage" taking away the aegis. But i do think that aegis should block more than just the one hit though. As a guardian main, i can't tell you how many times i died just after casting aegis because of some weird damage tick i didn't expect.

> > >

> > > there is no dedicated tank in this game since aggro management is non exist .

> > > chrono tank is simply due to it loses least of dps . but hey keep dream

> >

> > Well, this game actually has the best aggro management out there, just have more toughness than the rest, and except in a few bosses that have randomized targeting built in, you'll be the tank. That's how KC, VG and other bosses are doable. This has been the case since release, toughness has always determined the tank. And on top of that you have taunt (not that most tank worthy classes have taunt, but hey... It exists)

> > But yes, you're right in saying that chrono is used as the tank (by using toughness to manage aggro) because it's strength lies mostly on its support potential, so it's no loss to the group if that support is also the tank. Same thing could be said for a Firebrand. Mirage is now a very viable DPS option for mesmer (chrono wasn't), hence Firebrand becoming a promising support/tank option, since it can already maintain quickness and other boons on the party, and now that distort is aegis (which guard can output way more reliably) the only loss is alacrity, which would require a support-oriented Renegade to output consistently.

>

> The problem with this is having an extra support. True, the Firebrand and Renegade will deal way more damage than a chrono, but still not as much as a dedicated damage dealer. And you'll still be looking for two specific classes rather than one. And one that people had and played for more than an year.

 

The main thing to take away is that those options got more competitive really and it may make for much safer runs at the cost of taking slightly longer. You’ll still ideally want a banner war and ranger spirits so 1 party will likely still run a Chrono even if you try out different comps.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > @"musu.9205" said:

> > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > > I'm on the fence here... As someone that built a guardian has his main class because i wanted to tank, it's nice to see that Guardian (especially firebrand) is closer to being able to do that.

> > > > > On the other hand, i spent 400g gearing up a Minstrel's chrono to be more consistent on my relatively newb raid group, and just started being consistent with my distorts to see those fail right when i'm starting to do well with those... Kinda sux.

> > > > > Now i just need to relearn what attacks can be blocked with aegis.

> > > > > As for the timing, i think it will be more or less the same thing. You'll have to time it as a distort (so within 1s) because you give yourself distort not aegis. So if you do it well there shouldn't be any "junk damage" taking away the aegis. But i do think that aegis should block more than just the one hit though. As a guardian main, i can't tell you how many times i died just after casting aegis because of some weird damage tick i didn't expect.

> > > >

> > > > there is no dedicated tank in this game since aggro management is non exist .

> > > > chrono tank is simply due to it loses least of dps . but hey keep dream

> > >

> > > Well, this game actually has the best aggro management out there, just have more toughness than the rest, and except in a few bosses that have randomized targeting built in, you'll be the tank. That's how KC, VG and other bosses are doable. This has been the case since release, toughness has always determined the tank. And on top of that you have taunt (not that most tank worthy classes have taunt, but hey... It exists)

> > > But yes, you're right in saying that chrono is used as the tank (by using toughness to manage aggro) because it's strength lies mostly on its support potential, so it's no loss to the group if that support is also the tank. Same thing could be said for a Firebrand. Mirage is now a very viable DPS option for mesmer (chrono wasn't), hence Firebrand becoming a promising support/tank option, since it can already maintain quickness and other boons on the party, and now that distort is aegis (which guard can output way more reliably) the only loss is alacrity, which would require a support-oriented Renegade to output consistently.

> >

> > The problem with this is having an extra support. True, the Firebrand and Renegade will deal way more damage than a chrono, but still not as much as a dedicated damage dealer. And you'll still be looking for two specific classes rather than one. And one that people had and played for more than an year.

>

> The main thing to take away is that those options got more competitive really and it may make for much safer runs at the cost of taking slightly longer. You’ll still ideally want a banner war and ranger spirits so 1 party will likely still run a Chrono even if you try out different comps.

 

Indeed, i thing what it did, mostly was remove the "necessity" of mirror comps that was cemented after they nerfed Signet of Inspiration and Naturalistic Resonance.

The move towards having more skills especially unique effects like spirits and banners target 10 people is also being healthy and allowing more open comps by reducing the number of "mandatory" classes in the group. I wonder if having a PvE-wide upgrade to all skills so that they apply to 10 targets wouldn't be an improvement towards this.

 

[Feanor.2358]

Mhm, good luck convincing pugs to run something much safer if not as fast. In principle I agree, but I can only see this work for semi-casual statics.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> Mhm, good luck convincing pugs to run something much safer if not as fast. In principle I agree, but I can only see this work for semi-casual statics.

 

Yeah that’s really the problem, most pugs and statics want to be qT.

[Amineo.8951]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > Mhm, good luck convincing pugs to run something much safer if not as fast. In principle I agree, but I can only see this work for semi-casual statics.

>

> Yeah that’s really the problem, most pugs and statics want to be qT.

 

I expect QT to leave the game because of that change, "good bye" if that happens, it's not against them but they made raiding extremely annoying for new people indirectly because of the pugs wanting to be like them.

[Zaraki.5784]

You> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> I think OP needs to look at this change and the server hosting change together. Amazons servers suck. Ping is higher, lag spikes are frequent and long. All the trace routes show the problem is with Amazon, not our individual ISP's. So, what we now have is a trait that elimintes some of the "perfect timing" required to offset the server hosting choice they made. This is a good way to do that in my opinion.

 

You still need perfect timing and low ping for Dhuum's greens so I think they aren't even thinking about that aspect...

[Feanor.2358]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > Mhm, good luck convincing pugs to run something much safer if not as fast. In principle I agree, but I can only see this work for semi-casual statics.

>

> Yeah that’s really the problem, most pugs and statics want to be qT.

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be qT. But you have to be realistic and know your limits.

[Amineo.8951]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > Mhm, good luck convincing pugs to run something much safer if not as fast. In principle I agree, but I can only see this work for semi-casual statics.

> >

> > Yeah that’s really the problem, most pugs and statics want to be qT.

>

> There's nothing wrong with wanting to be qT. But you have to be realistic and know your limits.

 

That's right, they don't know the limit of their stupidity when it comes to the LFG.

[Eldar.5146]

> @"Amineo.8951" said:

 

> I expect QT to leave the game because of that change, "good bye" if that happens, it's not against them but they made raiding extremely annoying for new people indirectly because of the pugs wanting to be like them.

 

So people wanting to improve is a bad thing now? I guess you'd rather live in a world full of idiots to feel somehow special...

Just imagine the state of pug raiding without any build guides available. I still remember the early raid days where I did 50% of the group damage cause people had no idea how to play their classes.

The Distort change is no reason to leave the game, since it changed nothing. You can still do exactly the same tactics as before.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Amineo.8951" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > Mhm, good luck convincing pugs to run something much safer if not as fast. In principle I agree, but I can only see this work for semi-casual statics.

> > >

> > > Yeah that’s really the problem, most pugs and statics want to be qT.

> >

> > There's nothing wrong with wanting to be qT. But you have to be realistic and know your limits.

>

> That's right, they don't know the limit of their stupidity when it comes to the LFG.

 

That implies that qt is making builds for PUG raids. They are not.

[CptAurellian.9537]

Oh, I must have missed that change when skimming through the patch notes yesterday. Looking at class balance for fracs and raids, killing distortion share is an excellent decision. Good both for general gameplay and class variety.

[Amineo.8951]

> @"Eldar.5146" said:

> > @"Amineo.8951" said:

>

> > I expect QT to leave the game because of that change, "good bye" if that happens, it's not against them but they made raiding extremely annoying for new people indirectly because of the pugs wanting to be like them.

>

> So people wanting to improve is a bad thing now? I guess you'd rather live in a world full of idiots to feel somehow special...

> Just imagine the state of pug raiding without any build guides available. I still remember the early raid days where I did 50% of the group damage cause people had no idea how to play their classes.

> The Distort change is no reason to leave the game, since it changed nothing. You can still do exactly the same tactics as before.

>

 

The world is already full of idiots actually...

[Halan.8951]

..........