What "Raid locked" means.

[Lunateric.3708]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> Doors leading directly to experienced PvP groups or top WvW guilds are just as closed to you if you are not willing to the take the beginner one that makes you go through the route of commitment und practice.

 

Thanks for this.

[Rennie.6750]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> I agree with OP, the commanders in the raiding scene have absurd join requirements but this isn't an issue that Anet can fight unfortunately. All that can be done is for like minded people to form there own PuGs or join a guild or do both.

>

> Eventually the number of sane rational people will outnumber the irrational squad commanders asking for a life time of proof for Samarog like kitten >.>

 

In fact they can and it would be rather easy:

Step 1: make Legendary insights a wallet currency

Step 2: guild decorations and raid minis are now tradeable.

Step 3: ban advertising selling runs on LFG.

 

They can, but do they want to?

[MarkoNS.3261]

join a guild that teaches raids or make your own team its not rocket science but you cant expect others to provide you with a raid spot for no reason.

 

oh and in your analogy 9 pugs smashing in the door works since thats how people learn in the first place,

 

you contradict yourself with the training guild where you expect 9 other people to revolve around your time it should be the oposite especially since you are the trainee,

 

and next time it will be 500li.

[Shard.4791]

> @"Wandering Mist.2973" said:

> That's all well and good except all the groups I see on lfg ask for LI or KP. The only training run I've seen advertised on lfg was for wing 5 bosses that required you to have KP from another raid wing.....

 

TL;DR LFG sadly rarely accommodates starting raiders & in-game group finding methods are lacking.

 

LFG is not the solution for finding training runs or a group of people to raid with. It's mainly used get the missing members for a guild run or for pugging with stangers which means the puggers are not there to have fun happy raid times, they're there to kill the bosses in one try saving hours on the bosses. That's the reason behind 150+ LI groups. People aren't incentivized to help other raiders. First of all they need their own clears (which they advertise in lfg in needed) and after that they lose money by playing with other people because raiding doesn't give anything worth mentioning in rewards after the first clear. Those people that are willing to lose money by raiding won't probably use LFG. They'll do guild raids or training runs outside of LFG. On pure LFG training runs people leave left and right after pulls. It's too inefficient and annoying to deal with not to mention voice chat is rarely used for calls and 2k toughness DPSers ruin tanking regularly.

 

For finding training groups, statics and guild raids there's only limited in-game options. I'll mention some of them if someone is interested. Asking in aerodrome map chat maybe, joining guilds that advertise to be raiding (good luck), or putting up a raid lfg message (2nd raid tab). For raiders with enough LI finding statics and raiding guilds becomes easier in-game.

 

Even 100 LI groups can struggle with bosses. It's almost like people are lying about their experience or something or they're just incredibly bad some of the time. Someone mentioned Matthias. That boss is so hard that LFGing it under 150 LI is just asking for trouble. Casual guilds that have raided for years now don't necessarily have the skill to beat it.

[Auri.1365]

When I first started raiding with a relaxed guild group, we wiped countless times at vg as we had no experience with this kind of content and we also weren't speed runnig dungeons or fractals and therefore quite casual regarding builds and gear. But finally we mananged to kill the boss. So the start was really tough for us and probably for many others as well.

If you start raiding now, it is much easier to get started as there are so many video and guides available. You can also start training with people that have some expierence instead of starting with 10 people that are completely new to this if you join a training guild (like RTI in EU) or a discord groups (like Crossroad Inn).

If you join a training group you usually have an experienced leader explaining machanics, which nobody had who started raiding at the beginning.

 

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Rennie.6750" said:

> In fact they can and it would be rather easy:

> Step 1: make Legendary insights a wallet currency

> Step 2: guild decorations and raid minis are now tradeable.

> Step 3: ban advertising selling runs on LFG.

>

> They can, but do they want to?

 

I'm not surprised you haven't reviewed your thoughts.

Seriously, if you cannot prove anything to others ingame they would not accept you in the group thus leading into the need to hand out your API key to check your account. I mean you don't really dream that you get into groups easier without the mentioned things from above, do you?

Additionally, squad commanders would kick way faster and act more rigid than now because every fail could be due to lack of personal skill and they don't want to waste time with that if all the others are competent but that one bad apple is failing the whole try.

 

[Vulf.3098]

People would go from asking you to ping LI to linking Legendary Armor.

[Gambino.2109]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> I agree with OP, the commanders in the raiding scene have absurd join requirements but this isn't an issue that Anet can fight unfortunately. All that can be done is for like minded people to form there own PuGs or join a guild or do both.

>

> Eventually the number of sane rational people will outnumber the irrational squad commanders asking for a life time of proof for Samarog like kitten >.>

 

What do you mean there's nothing anet can do about it? Anet can most certainly do something about it.. and make other uses for LI.. that would make everyone use them up effectively rather than just sit in your bank and act as a meter for what you can and can't do.

[Rennie.6750]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > In fact they can and it would be rather easy:

> > Step 1: make Legendary insights a wallet currency

> > Step 2: guild decorations and raid minis are now tradeable.

> > Step 3: ban advertising selling runs on LFG.

> >

> > They can, but do they want to?

>

> I'm not surprised you haven't reviewed your thoughts.

> Seriously, if you cannot prove anything to others ingame they would not accept you in the group thus leading into the need to hand out your API key to check your account. I mean you don't really dream that you get into groups easier without the mentioned things from above, do you?

> Additionally, squad commanders would kick way faster and act more rigid than now because every fail could be due to lack of personal skill and they don't want to waste time with that if all the others are competent but that one bad apple is failing the whole try.

>

 

This is way beyond the average person's capacity, it's long, it's tedious and it's not great for security. That would likely not happen.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Rennie.6750" said:

> This is way beyond the average person's capacity, it's long, it's tedious and it's not great for security. That would likely not happen.

 

Not at all. :)

Back in the days we were using third party websites to find people to group for dungeon runs. And those were single path runs! If you are looking for a fullclear or wing clear it is worth the time (it will be faster than 5 minutes) to check someone's metrics instead of having a wipe fiesta/a bad run.

[Torolan.5816]

Talking about a relaxed and welcoming yet adaptive and competitive atmospohere in raids, just take a look at a thread recently made here when distortion was changed. People whined that they had learned to play a chrono 2! years ago and now all of a sudden they have to change their style of play.

Suddenly the supposed elite sounds not so elite anymore. The player pool for raids gets diminished further, still you find enough people there who welcome the change and tell people who barely qualified until lately to get gud. The revolution is out to eat its children once again. Beware you soldiers and officers, the commissar is not far behind you and he is looking for treason. ;)

[Vulf.3098]

The only fight where distortion removal is a semi problem is on Dhuum because it is as if the devs designed the fight around having distortion. Other than that people are just being babies because a broken overpowered ability finally got nerfed.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Torolan.5816" said:

> Talking about a relaxed and welcoming yet adaptive and competitive atmospohere in raids, just take a look at a thread recently made here when distortion was changed. People whined that they had learned to play a chrono 2! years ago and now all of a sudden they have to change their style of play.

> Suddenly the supposed elite sounds not so elite anymore. The player pool for raids gets diminished further, still you find enough people there who welcome the change and tell people who barely qualified until lately to get gud. The revolution is out to eat its children once again. Beware you soldiers and officers, the commissar is not far behind you and he is looking for treason. ;)

 

Glad you are lumping all of the raiders together. You realize there was a ton of people who welcomed the change or agreed it was required? But no, better lump everyone together and proclaim that every raider has view xyz.

 

The change did indeed force a lot of people to reevaluate how good they are since chronos can't carry as hard any longer. Guess who was affected the least by this change? Chronos, it's everyone else who has to adapt to the change. Chrono still get their distortion and any chrono who was good enough to distort in the first place had the mechanics down to memory.

[Torolan.5816]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Torolan.5816" said:

> > Talking about a relaxed and welcoming yet adaptive and competitive atmospohere in raids, just take a look at a thread recently made here when distortion was changed. People whined that they had learned to play a chrono 2! years ago and now all of a sudden they have to change their style of play.

> > Suddenly the supposed elite sounds not so elite anymore. The player pool for raids gets diminished further, still you find enough people there who welcome the change and tell people who barely qualified until lately to get gud. The revolution is out to eat its children once again. Beware you soldiers and officers, the commissar is not far behind you and he is looking for treason. ;)

>

> Glad you are lumping all of the raiders together. You realize there was a ton of people who welcomed the change or agreed it was required? But no, better lump everyone together and proclaim that every raider has view xyz.

>

> The change did indeed force a lot of people to reevaluate how good they are since chronos can't carry as hard any longer. Guess who was affected the least by this change? Chronos, it's everyone else who has to adapt to the change. Chrono still get their distortion and any chrono who was good enough to distort in the first place had the mechanics down to memory.

 

I said you find enough people who welcome the change as a further barrier, not that any raider would think so. I am well aware that many raiders are reasonable people. I suppose that said reasonable people are pretty concerned about these changes.

 

And if you are honest, you will probably also be able to read between the lines of said posters who indirectly accuse many of the damage dealers in raids to get carried by their druids and chronomancers.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> Back in the days we were using third party websites to find people to group for dungeon runs. And those were single path runs!

Or you could stand at entrance and spam/listen to says. Worked as well, especially since those people using 3rd party sites usually were staying at those entrances as well.

 

 

[Shard.4791]

Just want to say I saw two 0 LI/KP W5 training groups today. One for B1 and one for B3. They do exist.

 

LI requirements were pretty high for all other groups 100+ and I can see that having been even worse yesterday. Usually the LI requirements should become lower towards the end of the week when the hastiest clearers have had their fix. 20 or 50 LI requirement isn't going to help a 1 LI player though. KP requirement is pretty good as 1 KP = only 1 LI. Getting that first KP can be tough by pugging but as I said earlier LFG is not the solution to that problem.

[Belorn.2659]

Seems like an advertisement issue if you feel like there is no training guilds.

 

Know one guild on Na that usually run training at 2am, 4am and 9:30 am (server time), spread out during the week.

[Vinceman.4572]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > Back in the days we were using third party websites to find people to group for dungeon runs. And those were single path runs!

> Or you could stand at entrance and spam/listen to says. Worked as well, especially since those people using 3rd party sites usually were staying at those entrances as well.

 

Of course, and that'll still be possible. No doubt. Like at the moment. There are those 0 LI/training runs out there even with the possibility to ping LI/KPs etc.

But seriously, you think that people that have used requirements before will turn away from them if it comes to the situation where you can no longer ping stuff via ingame chat? That's more than highly debatable.

It's a rational attitude: You'd rather spend a couple of minutes to check someone's metrics via API key than trust a random stranger with no background information if you want to spend the next hour(s) with said person in the most challenging content of the game.

 

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Shard.4791" said:

> Just want to say I saw two 0 LI/KP W5 training groups today. One for B1 and one for B3. They do exist.

>

> LI requirements were pretty high for all other groups 100+ and I can see that having been even worse yesterday. Usually the LI requirements should become lower towards the end of the week when the hastiest clearers have had their fix. 20 or 50 LI requirement isn't going to help a 1 LI player though. KP requirement is pretty good as 1 KP = only 1 LI. Getting that first KP can be tough by pugging but as I said earlier LFG is not the solution to that problem.

 

There's training runs everyday, there's training communities, the links were given, and are usually given in game when someone asks. New raiders who want to join and actually SPEND the required amount of time to learn raids find them, and become raiders.

Over here all you get are people who want to skip the learning phase, and groups with LI expectations "insane" because they dare asking for experienced players.

 

I wish all these players were required to play UW or DoA in GW1 and come back to GW2 after they've finished it. It would put things in perspective :D

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Vinceman.4572" said:

> > > Back in the days we were using third party websites to find people to group for dungeon runs. And those were single path runs!

> > Or you could stand at entrance and spam/listen to says. Worked as well, especially since those people using 3rd party sites usually were staying at those entrances as well.

>

> Of course, and that'll still be possible. No doubt. Like at the moment. There are those 0 LI/training runs out there even with the possibility to ping LI/KPs etc.

> But seriously, you think that people that have used requirements before will turn away from them if it comes to the situation where you can no longer ping stuff via ingame chat? That's more than highly debatable.

I wasn't the one suggesting that. I know it wouldn't work. As long as raids remain as difficult as they are, and as long as there are carrots to make less experienced people want to run them, the elitism will persist in some form or another.

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

So you picked the only door that is usless?

The Complain in the forums instead of actually trying?

Because, son, A LOT of guilds do raids and don't ask for Li.

What they usually ask is, learn the encounters, read about it, and have a build that isn't utterly useless. Having 200 Li is a way to verify that when people are in a hurry (ie. LFG).

If you're being recruited by a guild asking for Li (never really saw that happening), there's 10 guilds that don't for every one that does.

FFS, i'm tired of people like this...

It's a MMORPG, if you want to play these things alone, IT'S THE WRONG GENRE! There's a metric ton of better games, with better graphics, better story, a ton of hours of play, that are made for you! Go play the Witcher series or something.

Now if you want to play an MMORPG, get a group of friends, if you don't have one, find one, join a guild, have fun with them, try raids. If you fail it's ok, you had fun.

The first day Raids got out, i grabbed the 6 guys that were on at the time, and we just went into the raid knowing it was hard, that it was hard for 10 guys and that we wouldn't make anything of it. So we did the first 3 elites, got to VG wiped 3 times, and just went back to playing fractals, knowing that next time we at least knew a bit more of the mechanics that we did before.

Now there's a lot less active guys on my guild, but we still try raids, mostly with pugs filling the holes, and we fail a lot, but at least it's fun even when it's not frustrating. And there's always the weekly escort.

 

[Alchofas.8243]

You have bad luck. Just attempt to join all the groups you see, make sure you know the mechanics of the raid you are joining, even a single player not knowing the mechanics will result in a wipe and a kick.

 

It's not that the door to raid is locked for you, you're just plugging your key to the wrong butthole.

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > pug all my raids every week. never really complain a bit since day one.

> > when you play the game, you find all the ways around to get yourself into it. .. just play the game

>

> Or don’t play the game? Whatever floats the old tug boat.

 

You can't tell people to not play the game or leave or uninstall.. :p bcos thats not helpful right.. if they really want to be part of it.. then the best advice from exp players are.. try harder and don't give up. No point complaining. Just play the game if you really want to be part of it.

[Joxer.6024]

 

> Your problem is not that people are wanting 200 LI. Your problem is that you are unwilling to put in the time and effort to actually gain experience but instead want to leech off of other people carrying through the raid getting taken along for a ride on their work.

 

OP, as much as I get the point you are trying to make its pretty much this, but its very very doable if you only but try. I don't pug, hate it, hate what the concept of a pug in GW2 is and just don't play the game to get hassled but there are guilds, ours included, with casual look at raiding and that do training. What server are you....look me up if NA. Cheers! ;)

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > pug all my raids every week. never really complain a bit since day one.

> > > when you play the game, you find all the ways around to get yourself into it. .. just play the game

> >

> > Or don’t play the game? Whatever floats the old tug boat.

>

> You can't tell people to not play the game or leave or uninstall.. :p bcos thats not helpful right.. if they really want to be part of it.. then the best advice from exp players are.. try harder and don't give up. No point complaining. Just play the game if you really want to be part of it.

 

Never said leave or uninstall, hence why I said whatever floats your boat, as it’s an option. Sometimes a break helps for clarity purposes.