Suggestion: Changes to PiP & Participation Distribution

[Kamara.4187]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"Kamara.4187" said:

> > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > > @"Kamara.4187" said:

> > > > Are you kidding me? like defenders already get way too little credit and perks compared to zergers. 9 times out of 10 its your defenders that make the callouts that save objectives along with keeping seige up. Apply what this thread is asking for to hills or the garri and then tell me that's a good idea....

> > >

> > > Do you really think people scout and defend objectives just so they can get participation for repairs? Do you think people would leave walls down and unrepaired if not for participation? A lot of my playtime is spent scouting, doing solo/small team stuff, I am well aware of the importance. What I am frustrated with, is constantly seeing people waste supply to boost their participation, this is borderline abuse of the system and promotes extremely selfish behavior. If you don't believe me go to SMC anytime your server owns it.

> >

> > In that respect I can't disagree with you, but I really don't want to see defenders take any kicks to the jaw. Yes I've seen supply being burned at smc before. Pretty sure we were being trolled when it happened. Yes it ticked us all off but we have no tools in place to deal with that kind of abuse when ppl can just roll a toon on another account, on a different server. So how can we stop them without hurting actual defenders?

>

> I never want to discourage scouting, defending, and small team play. I do it a lot, I know the challenges and the importance. In the past, people would burn supply to troll, the problem now is that people are being rewarded for it. I see this constantly, I think we all have. People will constantly waste supply to earn participation points. On reset night I was watching the same people doing this for hours, they didn't do anything else on the map, just constantly wasting supply.

>

> What I think would be a good idea is too increase the decay timer from repairing to say 7 minutes. And also giving more participation points up front, instead of per repair. This way people can stop decay and earn points when you repair, but not given additional points until the 7 minute cycle is up.

> So say you start repairing a wall, it will delay your participation decay by 7 minutes and add for example half a bar of participations points, but you would not get more points the more you repair until that timer is over. It would be kind of like diminishing returns.

 

That is reasonable:)

[X T D.6458]

> @"Kamara.4187" said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > @"Kamara.4187" said:

> > > > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > > > > @"Kamara.4187" said:

> > > > > Are you kidding me? like defenders already get way too little credit and perks compared to zergers. 9 times out of 10 its your defenders that make the callouts that save objectives along with keeping seige up. Apply what this thread is asking for to hills or the garri and then tell me that's a good idea....

> > > >

> > > > Do you really think people scout and defend objectives just so they can get participation for repairs? Do you think people would leave walls down and unrepaired if not for participation? A lot of my playtime is spent scouting, doing solo/small team stuff, I am well aware of the importance. What I am frustrated with, is constantly seeing people waste supply to boost their participation, this is borderline abuse of the system and promotes extremely selfish behavior. If you don't believe me go to SMC anytime your server owns it.

> > >

> > > In that respect I can't disagree with you, but I really don't want to see defenders take any kicks to the jaw. Yes I've seen supply being burned at smc before. Pretty sure we were being trolled when it happened. Yes it ticked us all off but we have no tools in place to deal with that kind of abuse when ppl can just roll a toon on another account, on a different server. So how can we stop them without hurting actual defenders?

> >

> > I never want to discourage scouting, defending, and small team play. I do it a lot, I know the challenges and the importance. In the past, people would burn supply to troll, the problem now is that people are being rewarded for it. I see this constantly, I think we all have. People will constantly waste supply to earn participation points. On reset night I was watching the same people doing this for hours, they didn't do anything else on the map, just constantly wasting supply.

> >

> > What I think would be a good idea is too increase the decay timer from repairing to say 7 minutes. And also giving more participation points up front, instead of per repair. This way people can stop decay and earn points when you repair, but not given additional points until the 7 minute cycle is up.

> > So say you start repairing a wall, it will delay your participation decay by 7 minutes and add for example half a bar of participations points, but you would not get more points the more you repair until that timer is over. It would be kind of like diminishing returns.

>

> That is reasonable:)

 

Thanks B)

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> I think some ppl do. remember the issue with the rune capping. where you could get pips just from moving on and off the ruin. I think Mighty Teapot did a video about how easy it was to cheese it. So yes, some ppl will do the least amount of work for the easiest gain. This is where the real issue is, and for Anet to fix this is almost near impossible. So for ppl to stand and actually defend an area - you loose pips and get zero reward (loot drops and such) and thus this is what really promotes the pirate ship meta.

Wait what does the pirate ship meta have to do with pips and participation? O.o

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> > I think some ppl do. remember the issue with the rune capping. where you could get pips just from moving on and off the ruin. I think Mighty Teapot did a video about how easy it was to cheese it. So yes, some ppl will do the least amount of work for the easiest gain. This is where the real issue is, and for Anet to fix this is almost near impossible. So for ppl to stand and actually defend an area - you loose pips and get zero reward (loot drops and such) and thus this is what really promotes the pirate ship meta.

> Wait what does the pirate ship meta have to do with pips and participation? O.o

 

Ignore that part. He just dislikes pirate ship.

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> > > I think some ppl do. remember the issue with the rune capping. where you could get pips just from moving on and off the ruin. I think Mighty Teapot did a video about how easy it was to cheese it. So yes, some ppl will do the least amount of work for the easiest gain. This is where the real issue is, and for Anet to fix this is almost near impossible. So for ppl to stand and actually defend an area - you loose pips and get zero reward (loot drops and such) and thus this is what really promotes the pirate ship meta.

> > Wait what does the pirate ship meta have to do with pips and participation? O.o

>

> Ignore that part. He just dislikes pirate ship.

 

It's not that I dislike the pirate ship meta. Sometimes it is just nice to mindlessly follow a commander and bash stuff. I am just not so sure it is the healthiest format for WvW.

Just like the amount of access everyone has to boons and immense condi application these days. Neither of these things should be a permanent uptime - it should all come is skill bursts and last for short durations where you need to time stuff, vs. the auto-25 stacks.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> > > > I think some ppl do. remember the issue with the rune capping. where you could get pips just from moving on and off the ruin. I think Mighty Teapot did a video about how easy it was to cheese it. So yes, some ppl will do the least amount of work for the easiest gain. This is where the real issue is, and for Anet to fix this is almost near impossible. So for ppl to stand and actually defend an area - you loose pips and get zero reward (loot drops and such) and thus this is what really promotes the pirate ship meta.

> > > Wait what does the pirate ship meta have to do with pips and participation? O.o

> >

> > Ignore that part. He just dislikes pirate ship.

>

> It's not that I dislike the pirate ship meta. Sometimes it is just nice to mindlessly follow a commander and bash stuff. I am just not so sure it is the healthiest format for WvW.

> Just like the amount of access everyone has to boons and immense condi application these days. Neither of these things should be a permanent uptime - it should all come is skill bursts and last for short durations where you need to time stuff, vs. the auto-25 stacks.

 

People have followed commanders around mindlessly since day 1. The current meta has no bearing on that whatsoever.

[Rasp Sabreblade.5421]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> > > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > @"Rasp Sabreblade.5421" said:

> > > > > I think some ppl do. remember the issue with the rune capping. where you could get pips just from moving on and off the ruin. I think Mighty Teapot did a video about how easy it was to cheese it. So yes, some ppl will do the least amount of work for the easiest gain. This is where the real issue is, and for Anet to fix this is almost near impossible. So for ppl to stand and actually defend an area - you loose pips and get zero reward (loot drops and such) and thus this is what really promotes the pirate ship meta.

> > > > Wait what does the pirate ship meta have to do with pips and participation? O.o

> > >

> > > Ignore that part. He just dislikes pirate ship.

> >

> > It's not that I dislike the pirate ship meta. Sometimes it is just nice to mindlessly follow a commander and bash stuff. I am just not so sure it is the healthiest format for WvW.

> > Just like the amount of access everyone has to boons and immense condi application these days. Neither of these things should be a permanent uptime - it should all come is skill bursts and last for short durations where you need to time stuff, vs. the auto-25 stacks.

>

> People have followed commanders around mindlessly since day 1. The current meta has no bearing on that whatsoever.

 

It just seems more noticeable since we have had server linking. Maybe it is just because I am on a lower population server.

[Carighan.6758]

My problem with the participation/pip system are numerous. Most of all, I don't get the **why**:

 

* As far as I know, it was supposed to reward active play and not reward just hanging around tagging something every so often. But if anything, now I am even more motivated to camp a guard in front of an enemy camp or tower, since that keeps up my participation easily without all this weird list of what-gives-how-much I need to remember. Example defending a keep: Build siege? Ah what were you thinking, so something for your participation!

* If rewards were too low (and let's face it they were), why not roll rewards **into the existing reward system**. Of which there were **already three different ones** (rank-up chests, dropped bags, reward tracks. We totally needed a fourth on top, yes.

* Even **if** I assume for a second that it was warranted, why not just look at what everyone else uses: Player input amounts vs time? If someone is actively playing, they'll be using their keyboard and mouse a lot. If they're mostly idling, they, well, won't. Or at least not for GW2 inputs. Could I just wiggle around to stay "active"? Sure. But that's a lot of effort for that, especially comparing that with what we got now I can just kill a guard every few minutes and /afk in between.

 

Really. I don't get why this was added. Yes the idea/motivation was good, but the implementation is just screwed up on a lot of levels, including the fact that it **exists**. Instead of being a change or even a rework to an already existing system.