SB vs Condi Mirage SPvP~How?

[EnderzShadow.2506]

 

One of the hardest matchups for me is fighting a condi mirage in spvp.

 

the sheer amount of clones, mesmer stealth... one good stun(pistol) from mes and I am in a world of hurt.

 

I currently play a SB lb/GS

 

How do you beat them?

[EnderzShadow.2506]

Guess it's impossible.

lol...82 views and no one makes a suggestion?

[Nuka Cola.8520]

Good luck with that.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

It's an extremely hard matchup for me as well. I don't beat most condi mirages, but for the times I have, this is what I have learned. Please take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

-Kite, kite, kite. Yes, they have the mobility advantage on you, but distance is still what I feel is my only chance in surviving. This makes it even harder in a Conquest setting, unfortunately. Be careful with GS4 because that can screw you over; they can easily avoid its knockback and then you are an easy target for that animation time. I find Beastmastery helps a lot with this because of Zephyr's Speed. This can also be a good time to sic your pet on them because they usually are not expecting to get hit while you are running away from them. This has often forced them to disengage off of me which gives me distance for a good LB4-2 combo. I sometimes find it easier to fight condi mirages on core ranger (with a build similar to what Bik posted), because Bristleback can do fantastic burst and Jacaranda isn't as reliable since it's slower. His build is nice because off-hand dagger is a huge help; that extra evade does a lot when they are about to land their burst on you, especially when paired with sword. If you are immobilized, this means you just have 3 evades at your disposal. Since many mirages run w/ sword, chances are they will immobilize you before a burst, so use those evade frames to your advantage. In all honesty I find GS to be pretty bad against mirages because it's more vulnerable to blinds and the animations are longer, but I am also not as practiced on it so I am not the best judge. If you do run GS, practice Shadelang's tip of double-proccing the evade on the GS AA chain.

 

-Try to read them as best as possible. Be sure to dodge their stealth burst; Torch 4 stealth is more lethal because of the burns, and this you can tell by the purple flames and sound. This is an obvious, but still, it needs to be mentioned because of how brutal it can be. Chances are, if the mesmer does not have to reposition or disengage and they Torch 4, it is relatively easily to time your defenses. They could be baiting your defenses, so really just try your best to have good timing and intuition and hope that you succeed.

 

-Use your stealth to reposition as best as possible. This is an obvious as well, but since their clones can't track you while you're in stealth, this can really set you up for a win. I am assuming you play with Smokescale, so you should have decent access to it. Remember you can use LB3 on a clone, and most mirages run Elusive Mind over Infinite Horizon, which means it has a more solid chance of landing. You may end up baiting a dodge out of them too.

 

-If you are using Smokescale, be careful with merged Smoke Assault. It really doesn't do that much damage and it means you are going into melee range, which is where it is easiest for them to land their burst. Also, Smoke Assault -> knockdown -> Worldly Impact is an extremely obvious combo that most soulbeasts tend to do. This can mean death for them, but just as easily death for you. Seriously, I know it's tempting, but it's like smoke assaulting a Scourge: you are taking a huge risk and have to be very tactical about how you use it because it can very easily screw you over. Against a mirage especially, your chances of landing it are pretty slim unless you know you've baited their cooldowns, dodges, and blinds, so be very careful. I have found smoke assaulting a clone can actually be helpful sometimes too because it can reposition you in a way they won't expect. Also, if you weapon-swap while smoke-assaulting, it will cancel the smoke assault, so if you want a quick repositioning/juking tool, use this. If you are in WvW, you can do this on an ambient critter, a random mob, or another enemy player. This can be effective for setting up a solid LB4-2 burst or even gaining distance when combined with sword 2.

 

-Remember they have lots of blinds if they are running the meta build. When you're on longbow, this can be a death sentence. Watch your conditions and try your best to avoid wasting your skills when you have blind.

 

-Make your LB4 count. Try to keep track of how many dodges they have used. Chances are they will have vigor, so timing is even trickier. If you land a good LB4 on them, there's a fair chance they will distort, so be careful to use LB2. With LB4 and LB2 on cooldown while you're stuck on longbow, you are very vulnerable.

 

-Using LB5 on your location may not guarantee that it hits the mirage, but if it is also serving as a deterrent, that means you are creating distance and one more chance for you to gain the upper-hand. Just be careful when you use it because even though the AoE damage is nice, you are stationary for a long period of time. It can just as easily give them time to close in on you.

 

-Assuming you are taking the Muddy Terrain heal trait (which you really should be), remember that your heal is not only a heal, but also a great offensive tool. That skill is amazing, I can't stress this enough. Landing the immobilize can really set you up for a win.

 

-Remember that chances are you will have torment and/or confusion up during almost the entire fight. So, sometimes life or death can mean standing still while waiting that one long, gruelling second for your heal to come off cooldown.

 

-Don't beat yourself up if you lose. Really. Mirage is overtuned and--in my eyes--a huge counter to ranger. They're ridiculously unfun to fight but so satisfying to kill. You can't make many mistakes when fighting them. If you actually do kill them, it means they were either being reckless, stupid, greedy, cocky, or a combination of the four. They have disengage potential like a thief, so even if you think you are about to win the fight, they can easily run away in a blink.

 

Hopefully this helps.

 

[EnderzShadow.2506]

That was a great write up.

 

Did it help?

Well, the honesty was great

the information was great

but now I see the stone cold truth why the fight is so difficult.

[Shadelang.3012]

When fighting condi mirage I find I have two options as a soul beast. Traited bear stance and heavily pressure them during and after there burst before disengaging and ranging htem down to finish. (use resistance from jac to cover the gaps) or go marauder with damage traits and attempt to land a sic em boosted wordly impact. A boosted worldy impact will hit htem for about 12k. Giving you a good chance of finishing them off. But odds are it will be a mutual down and hten a downstate war after.

 

A soulbeast with bear stance and merged with jacaranda has enough cleanse to outsustain there primary burst and counter dps through it instead of dodging. Bating more attacks in.

 

Both methods are unreliable. The bear stance and jacaranda method gives you a better chance. But ultimately for a power soulbeast atleast condi mirage is probably the second hardest matchup. The first being a well played spellbreaker. In my experience atleast.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

Also, good info.

 

I can get away from a spellbreaker much easier than I can a mirage.

Getting near a mirage fighting is dangerous even if I am not the main target.

 

And lastly, the time it takes for a spellbreaker to kill me vs the time it takes a well played mirage to finish me.

I can stall a spellbreaker easy. Dodge, weapon evade, dodge, weapon evade, tank a few hits heal, hey look I can dodge and weapon evade all over again.

 

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"Shadelang.3012" said:

> When fighting condi mirage I find I have two options as a soul beast. Traited bear stance and heavily pressure them during and after there burst before disengaging and ranging htem down to finish. (use resistance from jac to cover the gaps) or go marauder with damage traits and attempt to land a sic em boosted wordly impact. A boosted worldy impact will hit htem for about 12k. Giving you a good chance of finishing them off. But odds are it will be a mutual down and hten a downstate war after.

>

> A soulbeast with bear stance and merged with jacaranda has enough cleanse to outsustain there primary burst and counter dps through it instead of dodging. Bating more attacks in.

>

> Both methods are unreliable. The bear stance and jacaranda method gives you a better chance. But ultimately for a power soulbeast atleast condi mirage is probably the second hardest matchup. The first being a well played spellbreaker. In my experience atleast.

 

Shade, out of curiosity, do you tend to run Bear Stance in conquest? I imagine it may be a good choice if there's 2 scourges and a mirage in the enemy comp, but it' s hard for me to commit to it since it's weaker against power.

[Shadelang.3012]

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" I will run bear stance entirely depending on the enemy comp. If its a comp where raw healing and damage is gonna keep me alive longer ill run WHAO. If there gonna have nasty aoe condi bombs and I want to be able to help keep myself and my team alive while staying in melee. Bear stance with stance sharing it is.

 

Yes it is weaker against power. Significantly so. So you really need to be able to know what your opponents are running. Or find ways of maximizing the healing against power builds.

[witcher.3197]

1) Soulbeast is a terrible spec.

 

2) A good mirage should win any 1v1 anyways.

[Kerivek.5740]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> 1) Soulbeast is a terrible spec.

>

> 2) A good mirage should win any 1v1 anyways.

 

1. False

2. True

[witcher.3197]

> @"Kerivek.5740" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > 1) Soulbeast is a terrible spec.

> >

> > 2) A good mirage should win any 1v1 anyways.

>

> 1. False

> 2. True

 

Ok, I guess Soulbeast is good in PvE. But why would anyone play it elsewhere?

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"Kerivek.5740" said:

> > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > 1) Soulbeast is a terrible spec.

> > >

> > > 2) A good mirage should win any 1v1 anyways.

> >

> > 1. False

> > 2. True

>

> Ok, I guess Soulbeast is good in PvE. But why would anyone play it elsewhere?

 

You are so wrong on no.1

Soulbeast can beat any class in sPVP or W3.

But yes you have right for no.2, mesmer are our cancer.

[Oneira.7691]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

>

>

> 2) A good mirage should win any 1v1 anyways.

 

unless it is a scourge. one that halfway knows how to play.

[witcher.3197]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > @"Kerivek.5740" said:

> > > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > > 1) Soulbeast is a terrible spec.

> > > >

> > > > 2) A good mirage should win any 1v1 anyways.

> > >

> > > 1. False

> > > 2. True

> >

> > Ok, I guess Soulbeast is good in PvE. But why would anyone play it elsewhere?

>

> You are so wrong on no.1

> Soulbeast can beat any class in sPVP or W3.

> But yes you have right for no.2, mesmer are our cancer.

 

What's this miracle build that can do it? Link? I play in high plat on EU but only saw like 2 soubleast this entire season and both times their teams got absolutely demolished.

[Fluffball.8307]

Mesmers have been a crap matchup since core. I just plink away with longbow autoattack at their phantasms and clones while your pet works on the real mesmer. But you're going to lose the point. (Edit: well first thing I do is try to burst them and then run off point if they survive.) I'm sure you already know to dodge into shatters but that's probably the most critical thing to do. Insta die if you don't.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

 

 

 

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > > @"Kerivek.5740" said:

> > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > > > 1) Soulbeast is a terrible spec.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) A good mirage should win any 1v1 anyways.

> > > >

> > > > 1. False

> > > > 2. True

> > >

> > > Ok, I guess Soulbeast is good in PvE. But why would anyone play it elsewhere?

> >

> > You are so wrong on no.1

> > Soulbeast can beat any class in sPVP or W3.

> > But yes you have right for no.2, mesmer are our cancer.

>

> What's this miracle build that can do it? Link? I play in high plat on EU but only saw like 2 soubleast this entire season and both times their teams got absolutely demolished.

 

Condescending and rude af.

 

Did you cherry pick this thread?

 

It's already been explained in finite detail how a mesmer is overtuned and is a very hard, nigh impossible fight for a Ranger.

 

 

I cant speak for your ultra conservative EU gameplay, but over here we like to have fun.

There are more than a few Soulbeast in high plat.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> What's this miracle build that can do it? Link? I play in high plat on EU but only saw like 2 soubleast this entire season and both times their teams got absolutely demolished.

>

 

On what server do you play on EU? Because I am roaming all weekends between 5 pm - 1 am (London time) and in middle of the week between 2 am - 4 am, and all the time I meet another Soulbeast. I am on Seafarer's Rest and I am roaming now a glass cannon build, because I am roamign with another 3-4 friends. When I am going alone I use Marauder+Surv/Nature/Soulbeast. In both situation (even with glass cannon build) I can face 1 vs 1 any class. Only mesmer is my real problem and when I am with glasscannon - berserker I have sometimes problems with Scourge or DH because I don't have many condi cleanse. But even vs Scourve and DH, with berserker I can kill them if I manage to kite well.

I play Soulbeast in WvW since release, I tried every build and I can say Soulbeast is very powerfull/fun in the same time ;) , but ofc you must learn how to play with it.

[Roeibi.8514]

mirages are a pain in the ass to anyone, you just need to find a way to evade most of he's clones lunches and target him, use your beast to assist you with attack him.

find a beast that can maybe knock him down/ stun him, once you deliver it he's an easy target since mesmers are squishy.

 

dont try to get close to it, and try to avoid smokeskale's soulbeast since F2 get you on close range.

keep it far, try to use beast help.

[Erzian.5218]

Soulbeast is very weak in pvp as there is hardly any synergy between its traitline and the core traitlines. Core ranger is a better build than sb in pvp if you want play offensive and druid is a better build if you want a defensive build.

That being said, core ranger also loses vs mirage, so your only option is to roll druid or run away and hope for your teammates to support you.

[jcbroe.4329]

> @"Erzian.5218" said:

> Soulbeast is very weak in pvp as there is hardly any synergy between its traitline and the core traitlines. Core ranger is a better build than sb in pvp if you want play offensive and druid is a better build if you want a defensive build.

> That being said, core ranger also loses vs mirage, so your only option is to roll druid or run away and hope for your teammates to support you.

 

This.

 

Going to piggyback in the conversation from here, so not at you specifically but:

 

Allthough, you can outskill most mirage players in my experience with incredibly passive play. With Core/SB I'd assume Leadership runes and Entangle in this meta, so 2x 4 condi clears, another survival skill for another 2 clear, SoR for a full clear, pet swap on core for another 2 clears, and cleanse sigil on one or both weapon swaps for another 1 cleanse.

 

The tactic? Assuming a 1v1, on engage, F1 the pet onto the mirage player, then stow weapons and do nothing but wait for them to try to build pressure and start trying to shatter you, then dodge/cleanse the shatters/condis.

 

Basically you're just waiting them out to see if they'll waste too many cooldowns trying to kill you while you're preserving your own, and smart skill use with the passive gameplay will keep them from being able to land a deadly interrupt combo, which is where a lot of the metabuilds pressure/killing power comes from.

 

Ultimately, this relies entirely on the mirage you're up against to play the engagement wrong and basically try to "go through the motions" with you. Against a good player, it might not even work once, but if it does, you'll have to change up how you engage them and react to how they differentiate their gameplay with your own passive/active gameplay.

 

The people that are saying this in this thread are right though; Druid > Core > Soulbeast right now, and the state of the metagame only increases the gap of effectiveness between each.

 

I'm going to play core ranger in ranked this season until the balance patch myself. Partially for fun, partially to prove a point of how Core was buffed to the point that it doesn't need Druid to be viable, it just doubles down on the strong points of what allows core to compete. Also, if I decide to stream and/or make videos, core Ranger at this point in the games life cycle would probably be more enjoyable to watch than Druid or Soulbeast even (Soulbeast being a highly linear, hyper offensive setup that tries to do the same gimmick over and over until it works out, which I find boring to play, on top of my gripes with the design and how ineffective it performs).

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"Erzian.5218" said:

> Soulbeast is very weak in pvp as there is hardly any synergy between its traitline and the core traitlines. Core ranger is a better build than sb in pvp if you want play offensive and druid is a better build if you want a defensive build.

> That being said, core ranger also loses vs mirage, so your only option is to roll druid or run away and hope for your teammates to support you.

 

I honestly believe it's a winnable fight (half of the time) IF you are really good and play this game Rabidly.

 

Part of this has to be a learn to play and build issue.

I say that recognizing that I personally can't kill condi Mirage.

 

But, I watched BIK/Balouga on his stream duel a good condi mirage and he won 50-60 percent of the fights. (it was at least 15 duels)

He did it with lb/sw/wh vanilla ranger--- and surprisingly he performed MUCH better on a GS/sw/wh.

I don't know how well gs/sw/wh would actually play out in matches, but in a duel, he did well and won 60 percent of the duels.

 

 

And what he did was use the stealth from smokescale perfectly, use the evades on sword perfectly (repeatedly I might add) and then mercilessly beat the shit out of that mesmer with a great sword and a bit of easy dmg from the warhorn. He's said he would put up the footage but he's building another pc and messing with his stream.

 

But then there's the thing, I'm not a Streaming Caliber Ranger that made it into top 250.

And I honestly don't want to play enough to get there.

 

 

[Shadelang.3012]

Mirage is a winnable fight. but you have to build your soulbeast specifically to counter it. You cant run a standard build in that matchup. Bear stance/evasive purity/second skin/soldier runes etc. It doesnt take alot of damage to kill them. It takes time to start LANDING that damage however. So being able to outlast tehre defensives is huge. Only takes a couple mauls really once you break through the shell.

 

But it is absolutely soulbeasts hardest fight in my opinion. (I previously in this thread said that a good spellbreaker was the hardest fight. I disagree with my past self at this point)