Fighting Mesmers as Necro

[JustDemons.4358]

Is there anyway to beat mesmers as necro currently? half a year ago i was at least getting some kills against condi chronos when i managed to transfer the condis back. right now mesmers look even more slipperey and the clone amount and up time is insane. even worse is power mirages right now.. im just sitting here and have a total crit dmg of 25k dmg in my Dmg log that insta shotted me on my fairly tanky necro.. there was no telling that he engages me.. also i want to know if it is hard to pull the combo of or are those mesmer (some of them) using macros to get the combo of. im not exegerating or smth. i just died in 1/4 sec! in that fraction of a second i got hit by 10 spells, a couple of spatial surges, Jaunt, 3x Mirror Blades, 2x Mind Wrack.

[Galmac.4680]

Yep, I'm searching for a strategy too. No chance if it's not a really bad mesmer who don't know how to play... and necros aren't allowed to have some burst condi damage anymore what would help.

[JustDemons.4358]

> @"Galmac.4680" said:

> Yep, I'm searching for a strategy too. No chance if it's not a really bad mesmer who don't know how to play... and necros aren't allowed to have some burst condi damage anymore what would help.

 

nor we have power burst like ive seen from mesmers thiefs and holosmith (prolly other classes too). A thief is already bad for necros but thief acutally have to work for it and can die quickly. mesmers dont even have a risk when fighting most builds in wvw. thats acutally sad

[Kovu.7560]

Trust me, necros aren't the only players having trouble with Mesmers. Yesterday me and two other militia were trying to fight a Mesmer but they were either invisible, reflecting projectiles or in evasion frames, whilst dealing damage with endlessly generated clones.

Now I haven't played the new spec so I'm not sure how they pull that off, it would definitely be good to get some perspective. There isn't really any downtime with their attacks, they don't seem to have the same issues with cooldowns the other professions have. To top it off they're at worst the second most mobile classs these days.

 

If I see a mesmer running the new spec I tend to just not engage. That said, mesmer perspective would be a boon.

 

~ Kovu

[EremiteAngel.9765]

I seldom roam these days but here are some points that might help from my experience fighting what I think are average mirages from a Reaper POV.

 

**Vs condi Mirage.**

 

* The important thing is not to spam your condi transfer. It will be good to either enter shroud with infusing terror pulsing to tank some of the burst damage or transfer at the right moment when he has rotated past a few of his evade frames. Most don't chain evades forever. There is bound to be a downtime. Or shroud and dash away to heal with CS or bait him into chasing you which would then be a non evade frame and allows you to land a good transfer. Run things like consume conditions, dagger, staff, plague signet, suffer shout.

* Or, run a build like Rudra. He uses variations of blood magic plus spite/soul reaping plus Reaper. The recently updated unholy matyr trait is **amazing** for solo roamers vs condi foes. It is not dependent on having to transfer condi to your foes. Not to mention you get dagger on a lower cooldown for more transfers too.

* Or, if he is evading all over you, time it well and drop a fear wall on you. He can't evade past that and opens up for you to transfer condi. Messes up his rotations.

 

**Vs power Mirage**

 

* The important thing is to time your shroud burst against his burst moments. It is the easiest way to land most of your shroud burst safely.

 

I got a few fights here against both power and condi Mirage. They are probably average and not those top tier PvP skilled players. Still I hope it helps somewhat. The important thing is to time your transfers or bursts well. Create those openings like dashing away from him to bait a non evade chase or cutting out his evades with spectral wall etc.

 

Or you can check out Rudra's video here where he explained the use of blood magic's unholy martyr trait vs condi foes. Not having to totally depend on transferring condi is very helpful.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7km4peyyU1I

 

[JustDemons.4358]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> Trust me, necros aren't the only players having trouble with Mesmers. Yesterday me and two other militia were trying to fight a Mesmer but they were either invisible, reflecting projectiles or in evasion frames, whilst dealing damage with endlessly generated clones.

> Now I haven't played the new spec so I'm not sure how they pull that off, it would definitely be good to get some perspective. There isn't really any downtime with their attacks, they don't seem to have the same issues with cooldowns the other professions have. To top it off they're at worst the second most mobile classs these days.

>

> If I see a mesmer running the new spec I tend to just not engage. That said, mesmer perspective would be a boon.

>

> ~ Kovu

 

yes i know already, Kovu, that other classes also struggle alot. even warriors seem to be countered by them from what i saw in wvw and videos. i would imagine that thiefs or rangers maybe have a better time against them just because they have invis abd mobilty themselves. idk how guards, revs and eles match agaisnt them. the wierdest thing to me is that i read if power mesmsers dont hit there combo they lose a lot of momentum. in my experience though they still have all the mobility and cd reset to still pressure you constantly. i probably just have to play the power spec myself to understand how they function... not sure if this will help me to fight them. in a better way.

 

The amount of burst dmg and mobility makes it insanly hard to learn anything from the fights because they are so quickly over.. xD

[JustDemons.4358]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> I seldom roam these days but here are some points that might help from my experience fighting what I think are average mirages from a Reaper POV.

>

> **Vs condi Mirage.**

>

> * The important thing is not to spam your condi transfer. It will be good to either enter shroud with infusing terror pulsing to tank some of the burst damage or transfer at the right moment when he has rotated past a few of his evade frames. Most don't chain evades forever. There is bound to be a downtime. Or shroud and dash away to heal with CS or bait him into chasing you which would then be a non evade frame and allows you to land a good transfer. Run things like consume conditions, dagger, staff, plague signet, suffer shout.

> * Or, run a build like Rudra. He uses variations of blood magic plus spite/soul reaping plus Reaper. The recently updated unholy matyr trait is **amazing** for solo roamers vs condi foes. It is not dependent on having to transfer condi to your foes. Not to mention you get dagger on a lower cooldown for more transfers too.

> * Or, if he is evading all over you, time it well and drop a fear wall on you. He can't evade past that and opens up for you to transfer condi. Messes up his rotations.

>

> **Vs power Mirage**

>

> * The important thing is to time your shroud burst against his burst moments. It is the easiest way to land most of your shroud burst safely.

>

> I got a few fights here against both power and condi Mirage. They are probably average and not those top tier PvP skilled players. Still I hope it helps somewhat. The important thing is to time your transfers or bursts well. Create those openings like dashing away from him to bait a non evade chase or cutting out his evades with spectral wall etc.

>

> Or you can check out Rudra's video here where he explained the use of blood magic's unholy martyr trait vs condi foes. Not having to totally depend on transferring condi is very helpful.

>

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7km4peyyU1I

>

>

 

Thank you for your detailed post! I think i already saw you posting the vids from Rudra (or maybe someone else). informative stuff... and some new ideas for me to adjust my builds :). the most important thing i learned from him that he drops might gen on his Blood Magic build to not get weakened. thats cool. you are right though in his vids most ppls he fights are more like average skilled players.

[ToPNoP.2493]

Pof specs are broken, all in their own way. Mesmer is just at the top of the pile, because no one wants to fight a seemingly unbeatable class.

[Nimon.7840]

Its not possible to win against them. Only if they are stupid.

 

Same thought here with the macros. I guess most of the mirages are using macros. Else its not possible to press so many buttons at once.

Good most of them dont play chrono or core. That would do even more dmg.

The problem with mesmers is easy to detect. It has way to many instant casts. Mabe we should mostly all of his abilities casttime or something similar to necro, that will hurt himself, after casting a spell.

 

Necro is just very poorly designed. Nice ideas but pretty badly done

[viquing.8254]

On a side note, you want to kill a duelist class who has nothing for teamfight with a teamfight class (and probably the strongest in teamfight actually.) ?

>Mabe we should mostly all of his abilities casttime or something similar to necro

It's a good idea, with that, mesmer can have an impact on PvP & WvW other than 1v1ing, running and trolling.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> Video 1

>

> Video 2

Not one single skilled opponent in these videos. These builds are a total mess.

 

Fun Fact: the opponents I am used to fight just kite lich and spam /laughs for the pathetic attempt to achieve sth. with this useless elite skill.

 

Unholy Martyr: Why would you want to waste a whole traitline just to be able to remove 3 conditions? You could spec the way more usefull Curses line and transfer 2 conditions on shroud entering. For the additional corruptions that the traitline offers you can change Corrupt Boon in your skillbar to Well of Power. In the end you have more corruptions and more condi cleanse.

 

@topic:

- Power Mirages are faceroll for a Power Reaper. Just time your dodges and don't waste offensive stats for toughness. Counterpressure is the key!

- Condi Mirages: Slot Consume Conditions, Plage Signet, Well of Power and beg he is stupid enough to not just disengage and leave you alone. You can survive that fight, but you can't kill a skilled condi mirage (no one can atm.).

 

In WvW as a necro you should always run +40% endurance food. Dodges are super important for the class as we don't have blocks and stuff.

[Galmac.4680]

And of course, no nerf will ever come to mirages...

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > Video 1

> >

> > Video 2

> Not one single skilled opponent in these videos. These builds are a total mess.

>

 

Can agree.

 

> Fun Fact: the opponents I am used to fight just kite lich and spam /laughs for the pathetic attempt to achieve sth. with this useless elite skill.

>

 

I've met them too. I just count it my win if they disengage XD

 

> Unholy Martyr: Why would you want to waste a whole traitline just to be able to remove 3 conditions? You could spec the way more usefull Curses line and transfer 2 conditions on shroud entering. For the additional corruptions that the traitline offers you can change Corrupt Boon in your skillbar to Well of Power. In the end you have more corruptions and more condi cleanse.

>

 

Curses is a good alternative though that is dependant on transferring condi to your foe which can be negated. Good thing about blood magic's unholy martyr is that it is a self cleanse that refills shroud. The lower CD cleanse on dagger trait in blood magic is pretty helpful too.

 

> @topic:

> - Power Mirages are faceroll for a Power Reaper. Just time your dodges and don't waste offensive stats for toughness. Counterpressure is the key!

 

That is good advice. Thanks.

 

> - Condi Mirages: Slot Consume Conditions, Plage Signet, Well of Power and beg he is stupid enough to not just disengage and leave you alone. You can survive that fight, but you can't kill a skilled condi mirage (no one can atm.).

>

 

That is good advice. And as a necro, if an opponent disengages, I think we should give ourselves the luxury to feel that we won the fight =D

 

> In WvW as a necro you should always run +40% endurance food. Dodges are super important for the class as we don't have blocks and stuff.

 

That is good advice. Thanks. What are your thoughts on sigil of energy? And could you link your WvW roaming build? Thanks!