Cyninja.2954 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > Australia is not a niche time slot, mate. It's a country. We have lots of people. Making us into second class in game citizens is bad business, if you ask me. > > Well, compared to the two big blocks (north america and EU), Australia certainly is a niche time slot. Just for perspective, you have less than 5% of the EU population. > > > > So we're going to marginalize whole countries. Australia is a country in a region referred to as the Oceanic Region and when you add up all the countries in that region, you have a lot more people. How many of them play Guild Wars 2 I have no idea, but let's not say that a percentage of the world should be excluded from content because they're not in the US, or that it's easy because it's easy for people in the US. We bought the game game that everyone else did, except we probably paid more for it. What does a whole country have to do with this? I was referring to player activity on the servers of EU and US. If Australians would have that many people, this would be a non issue. Thus from an activity perspective and player availability, the community from there is niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasmaniajones.4376 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 As long as raid sellers have a consistent stream of customers then there's not really any reason from their point of view to spend time teaching new players, which would take them longer in the first place and compromise their stream of income. If people want raid selling to stop, then everyone has to stop buying raids. To be honest, any attempt to achieve synergy between new raiders and raid sellers would probably be doomed before it started anyway because they have completely conflicting motivations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > Australia is not a niche time slot, mate. It's a country. We have lots of people. Making us into second class in game citizens is bad business, if you ask me. > > > Well, compared to the two big blocks (north america and EU), Australia certainly is a niche time slot. Just for perspective, you have less than 5% of the EU population. > > > > > > > So we're going to marginalize whole countries. Australia is a country in a region referred to as the Oceanic Region and when you add up all the countries in that region, you have a lot more people. How many of them play Guild Wars 2 I have no idea, but let's not say that a percentage of the world should be excluded from content because they're not in the US, or that it's easy because it's easy for people in the US. We bought the game game that everyone else did, except we probably paid more for it. > > What does a whole country have to do with this? > > I was referring to player activity on the servers of EU and US. If Australians would have that many people, this would be a non issue. > > Thus from an activity perspective and player availability, the community from there is niche. It's not just this country. It's the whole area of the world. And it's harder to raid from here. Making blanket statements like it's easy to raid, because you live in the US just isn't true. Even in the US not everyone plays without lag or latency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe.1807 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Ahhh can we drop this subject? This had been talked to death at this point...this will allways be thing, back in the day was Arah exp paths, then Fractals and now we have Raids, diferent name but the same history...personaly, i dont Raid cause time and cant join my guild when they raid...no way I gonna try to get a group on LFG. And I am 100% cool with, have 0 interest on doing raids right now, what really bothers me its the fact that they keep neglecting the other parts of the game...lol compare the last rewards added to raids, with the stuff they gave to WvW and sPvP, how can you compare that badass Dhum set and that scythe with that new clown weapon set that they made to WvW and sPvP?? They even gonna add a new armor for PvP, and guess what, is just a retex! Not even a new a armor set, they just gonna take the old Glorious armor(not glorious at all, looks like shit) and add cheap effects lol...this is the part that pisses me off, Raids are getting all the attetion and the good rewards and the 90% of the game is getting literal shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris McSwag.4683 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > Australia is not a niche time slot, mate. It's a country. We have lots of people. Making us into second class in game citizens is bad business, if you ask me. > > > > Well, compared to the two big blocks (north america and EU), Australia certainly is a niche time slot. Just for perspective, you have less than 5% of the EU population. > > > > > > > > > > So we're going to marginalize whole countries. Australia is a country in a region referred to as the Oceanic Region and when you add up all the countries in that region, you have a lot more people. How many of them play Guild Wars 2 I have no idea, but let's not say that a percentage of the world should be excluded from content because they're not in the US, or that it's easy because it's easy for people in the US. We bought the game game that everyone else did, except we probably paid more for it. > > > > What does a whole country have to do with this? > > > > I was referring to player activity on the servers of EU and US. If Australians would have that many people, this would be a non issue. > > > > Thus from an activity perspective and player availability, the community from there is niche. > > It's not just this country. It's the whole area of the world. And it's harder to raid from here. > > Making blanket statements like it's easy to raid, because you live in the US just isn't true. Even in the US not everyone plays without lag or latency. Lag and latency depending on your conenction and proximity to the servers is a thing in all countries, thats just how it is. Obviously it is more common for oceanic players as you are far from the servers, but **that really doesnt have anything to do with this thread** or wether raids are accessible or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Felipe.1807" said: > And I am 100% cool with _You_ are. Some other people apparently aren't. Not that i think the problem OP brought up has any valid solution. As long as people will want to buy the content, there will be sellers. At the same time, as long as the income from selling the content is significant, there's nothing you can offer the sellers to make them decide to engage in activity that might lower that income. Basically, the only things that can make the issue less visible (and lower the prices) is either: - make the content less interesting for players that might have a difficulty in running it, or - lower the difficulty, so more people will run it on their own without feeling a need to buy it Not sure if that's what OP intends however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > Australia is not a niche time slot, mate. It's a country. We have lots of people. Making us into second class in game citizens is bad business, if you ask me. > > > > > Well, compared to the two big blocks (north america and EU), Australia certainly is a niche time slot. Just for perspective, you have less than 5% of the EU population. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we're going to marginalize whole countries. Australia is a country in a region referred to as the Oceanic Region and when you add up all the countries in that region, you have a lot more people. How many of them play Guild Wars 2 I have no idea, but let's not say that a percentage of the world should be excluded from content because they're not in the US, or that it's easy because it's easy for people in the US. We bought the game game that everyone else did, except we probably paid more for it. > > > > > > What does a whole country have to do with this? > > > > > > I was referring to player activity on the servers of EU and US. If Australians would have that many people, this would be a non issue. > > > > > > Thus from an activity perspective and player availability, the community from there is niche. > > > > It's not just this country. It's the whole area of the world. And it's harder to raid from here. > > > > Making blanket statements like it's easy to raid, because you live in the US just isn't true. Even in the US not everyone plays without lag or latency. > > Lag and latency depending on your conenction and proximity to the servers is a thing in all countries, thats just how it is. Obviously it is more common for oceanic players as you are far from the servers, but **that really doesnt have anything to do with this thread** or wether raids are accessible or not. I was replying to a post that said raids are easy. That absolutely has something to do with this thread to me. If someone wants to say raids are easy, that's an opinion based on their current situation. Raids are easy for them, they're not easy for everyone...or at least not as easy for some people. I guess you could say it's off topic from the original poster, but then so is your post. By the same token I could say that the easiness or difficulty of raids is part of the topic, because without that, the need to sell/teach or otherwise find methods to make raids accessible to people who don't have as easy a time with them is actually on topic. That is to say, if raids are easy, as the person I was originally replying to was stating, then there's no need to change or do anything suggested in the OP, which seemed to be the response of the person who said they were easy. I was saying their response to the thread only really applies if raids are easy for everyone, which is obviously not going to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Felipe.1807" said: > > And I am 100% cool with > _You_ are. Some other people apparently aren't. > > Not that i think the problem OP brought up has any valid solution. As long as people will want to buy the content, there will be sellers. At the same time, as long as the income from selling the content is significant, there's nothing you can offer the sellers to make them decide to engage in activity that might lower that income. > > Basically, the only things that can make the issue less visible (and lower the prices) is either: > - make the content less interesting for players that might have a difficulty in running it, or > - lower the difficulty, so more people will run it on their own without feeling a need to buy it > > Not sure if that's what OP intends however. > > There have always been people selling content, even in Guild Wars 1. People selling Althea's Ashes. People opening gates for you, so you can solo the charr area in pre. People selling the last mission in factions. People selling specific dungeons. I even remember people selling runs for rangers to tame a black widow in the Underworld. Not sure why it's such a problem now when it's always been with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris McSwag.4683 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > Australia is not a niche time slot, mate. It's a country. We have lots of people. Making us into second class in game citizens is bad business, if you ask me. > > > > > > Well, compared to the two big blocks (north america and EU), Australia certainly is a niche time slot. Just for perspective, you have less than 5% of the EU population. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we're going to marginalize whole countries. Australia is a country in a region referred to as the Oceanic Region and when you add up all the countries in that region, you have a lot more people. How many of them play Guild Wars 2 I have no idea, but let's not say that a percentage of the world should be excluded from content because they're not in the US, or that it's easy because it's easy for people in the US. We bought the game game that everyone else did, except we probably paid more for it. > > > > > > > > What does a whole country have to do with this? > > > > > > > > I was referring to player activity on the servers of EU and US. If Australians would have that many people, this would be a non issue. > > > > > > > > Thus from an activity perspective and player availability, the community from there is niche. > > > > > > It's not just this country. It's the whole area of the world. And it's harder to raid from here. > > > > > > Making blanket statements like it's easy to raid, because you live in the US just isn't true. Even in the US not everyone plays without lag or latency. > > > > Lag and latency depending on your conenction and proximity to the servers is a thing in all countries, thats just how it is. Obviously it is more common for oceanic players as you are far from the servers, but **that really doesnt have anything to do with this thread** or wether raids are accessible or not. > > I was replying to a post that said raids are easy. That absolutely has something to do with this thread to me. If someone wants to say raids are easy, that's an opinion based on their current situation. Raids are easy for them, they're not easy for everyone...or at least not as easy for some people. I guess you could say it's off topic from the original poster, but then so is your post. > > By the same token I could say that the easiness or difficulty of raids is part of the topic, because without that, the need to sell/teach or otherwise find methods to make raids accessible to people who don't have as easy a time with them is actually on topic. That is to say, if raids are easy, as the person I was originally replying to was stating, then there's no need to change or do anything suggested in the OP, which seemed to be the response of the person who said they were easy. I was saying their response to the thread only really applies if raids are easy for everyone, which is obviously not going to be the case. No, the post you replied to didnt mention difficulty of raids(unless it was edited). It mentioned that Australia is a niche time slot, which it is if you consider player population. While I dont know the actual amount of players in comparison, it would be fair to assume that you'd have local servers if the population was of great significance. It would also be fair to assume that you'd have an easier time finding groups if more played in that timezone. It sucks that you have lag and/or can't find people to raid with, but it doesnt really have anything to do with the thread unless you mean that the suggestions by OP would mean that more oceanic players would be raiding. Personally, I'd be very sceptical to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > It's an economic decision by the companies. Do they expect specific attention to Oceanic players to improve profits? Apparently ANet/NCsoft don't. Out of curiosity, how many MMOs actually do pay special attention to the Oceanic region? Sitting comfortably in middle Europe, I have no idea. The Oceanic and Asian Market in MMO is fucking huge! Do you not know of the other games NCsoft owns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxwelgm.4315 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I think we should be skeptical that there _is any kind of meaningful amount of "new raiders" at all_ to begin with. Mode is niche since it's inception, and only by extreme hindsight and perhaps some accidental malice it became notorious, since it has pretty kitten unique rewards (such as the animated armor skins). Raids would probably not cause much flak if Anet didn't spotlight it so much (and literally so, when we could use more WvW interviews and development highlights), and didn't hype them so hard. Case in point, look at https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-your-dhuum/ ; Anet couldn't make a Youtube commercial of PoF to save their life, and yet that's some quality praise (Joko) of raid development right there! It also goes into large extent to explain (just like it happened to legendary armor) how a developer went the extra mile to design new tech/new code exclusively for raids to be more awesome. Said code (ideally) will of course be rehashed back into the rest of the game, but damage is already done: raids are **the** go-to content if you want to see Anet's best, according to Anet themselves. And yet population doesn't seem to be increasing according to their hype over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 From the complaints, it's rather obvious that the East Asian market is no (general) solution to the problems of Oceanic players. By the way, I was talking about Oceania specifically, not East Asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > From the complaints, it's rather obvious that the East Asian market is no (general) solution to the problems of Oceanic players. By the way, I was talking about Oceania specifically, not East Asia. Australia is part of the East Asia Time zone. So what you really want to say is "I am looking to be right" but that time zone and area.. is MASSIVE for MMO's That is why, games like GW2 which are western developed and marketed MMO's are a rare breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > Australia is not a niche time slot, mate. It's a country. We have lots of people. Making us into second class in game citizens is bad business, if you ask me. > > > > > > Well, compared to the two big blocks (north america and EU), Australia certainly is a niche time slot. Just for perspective, you have less than 5% of the EU population. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we're going to marginalize whole countries. Australia is a country in a region referred to as the Oceanic Region and when you add up all the countries in that region, you have a lot more people. How many of them play Guild Wars 2 I have no idea, but let's not say that a percentage of the world should be excluded from content because they're not in the US, or that it's easy because it's easy for people in the US. We bought the game game that everyone else did, except we probably paid more for it. > > > > > > > > What does a whole country have to do with this? > > > > > > > > I was referring to player activity on the servers of EU and US. If Australians would have that many people, this would be a non issue. > > > > > > > > Thus from an activity perspective and player availability, the community from there is niche. > > > > > > It's not just this country. It's the whole area of the world. And it's harder to raid from here. > > > > > > Making blanket statements like it's easy to raid, because you live in the US just isn't true. Even in the US not everyone plays without lag or latency. > > > > Lag and latency depending on your conenction and proximity to the servers is a thing in all countries, thats just how it is. Obviously it is more common for oceanic players as you are far from the servers, but **that really doesnt have anything to do with this thread** or wether raids are accessible or not. > > I was replying to a post that said raids are easy. That absolutely has something to do with this thread to me. If someone wants to say raids are easy, that's an opinion based on their current situation. Raids are easy for them, they're not easy for everyone...or at least not as easy for some people. I guess you could say it's off topic from the original poster, but then so is your post. > > By the same token I could say that the easiness or difficulty of raids is part of the topic, because without that, the need to sell/teach or otherwise find methods to make raids accessible to people who don't have as easy a time with them is actually on topic. That is to say, if raids are easy, as the person I was originally replying to was stating, then there's no need to change or do anything suggested in the OP, which seemed to be the response of the person who said they were easy. I was saying their response to the thread only really applies if raids are easy for everyone, which is obviously not going to be the case. Actually you replied to a statement about oceanic players being a niche player segment. Not that raids are easy. No one said raids are easy, but rather that there is many ways to get into raiding which work and have worked. You then lump together multiple aspects like latency, player numbers (which obviously are low for oceanic players, otherwise there would be no issues to find off time raid groups as was claimed), raid difficulty, etc. trying to make something stick. **Latency** - is an issue on to its self. Would I love for oceanic players to have their own servers? Sure. That's beside the point at the moment though **Player Numbers** - as mentioned if this were not an issue because enough people were available, I would not refer to the player base from oceanic time zone as niche. Compared to the total number of players and activity, it is though as proven by people from this time zone complaining about not finding sufficient groups. **Difficulty and Accessibility** - this has been discussed to death. There is many ways to get into raiding. Offering additional rewards would barely improve the situation for oceanic players but would drastically alter the environment for every one else and as such has to be implemented carefully. > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > From the complaints, it's rather obvious that the East Asian market is no (general) solution to the problems of Oceanic players. By the way, I was talking about Oceania specifically, not East Asia. > > Australia is part of the East Asia Time zone. So what you really want to say is "I am looking to be right" but that time zone and area.. is MASSIVE for MMO's That is why, games like GW2 which are western developed and marketed MMO's are a rare breed. The Asian market is huge player wise, and tiny for most western MMOs. Even behemoth WoW is tiny compared to many asian MMO grinders. Thus from a market share perspective, it's mostly insignificant unless a western MMO actively tries to push into the market (which none are currently trying to). The same is true for asian MMO grinders in the western MMO market. While they boast huge numbers at home, they are at best small here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Solution remove mechanics then no need too learn just dps it too death and lower hp and dmg from boss for most people dont like mechanics i do but most of community want it this way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchRiders.2871 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 The problem is that some inexperienced players want to get carrier. In return for doing this experienced players expect financial compensation or commitment to these group (join the guild) The solution is that inexperienced players group up and by playing raids gain experience. Example given I put 20 hours in dhuum before getting a kill, starting from scratch. With current knowledge new players prolly can get it in 10 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tora.7214 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 people selling raids technically arent doing anything wrong cause there is no rlmt involved, however if Anet really dont have any real issues with them then atleast they should be given their own raid tab for "raid services" or something so they stop filling the lfm raid tab with spam... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"DutchRiders.2871" said: > The problem is that some inexperienced players want to get carrier. In return for doing this experienced players expect financial compensation or commitment to these group (join the guild) > > The solution is that inexperienced players group up and by playing raids gain experience. Example given I put 20 hours in dhuum before getting a kill, starting from scratch. With current knowledge new players prolly can get it in 10 hours. No, what you have are inexperienced players who want to experience the raid content and players who think they are so important that they can charge people with grouping up with them. There was a time when people simply grouped up with others for the pleasure of it, tightly tuned raids polluted this mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: >There was a time when people simply grouped up with others for the pleasure of it, tightly tuned raids polluted this mindset. I must have missed the patch in which Anet has taken away that kind of feature. You still have the possibility to simply group up with people for the pleasure of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > Australia is not a niche time slot, mate. It's a country. We have lots of people. Making us into second class in game citizens is bad business, if you ask me. > > > > > > > Well, compared to the two big blocks (north america and EU), Australia certainly is a niche time slot. Just for perspective, you have less than 5% of the EU population. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we're going to marginalize whole countries. Australia is a country in a region referred to as the Oceanic Region and when you add up all the countries in that region, you have a lot more people. How many of them play Guild Wars 2 I have no idea, but let's not say that a percentage of the world should be excluded from content because they're not in the US, or that it's easy because it's easy for people in the US. We bought the game game that everyone else did, except we probably paid more for it. > > > > > > > > > > What does a whole country have to do with this? > > > > > > > > > > I was referring to player activity on the servers of EU and US. If Australians would have that many people, this would be a non issue. > > > > > > > > > > Thus from an activity perspective and player availability, the community from there is niche. > > > > > > > > It's not just this country. It's the whole area of the world. And it's harder to raid from here. > > > > > > > > Making blanket statements like it's easy to raid, because you live in the US just isn't true. Even in the US not everyone plays without lag or latency. > > > > > > Lag and latency depending on your conenction and proximity to the servers is a thing in all countries, thats just how it is. Obviously it is more common for oceanic players as you are far from the servers, but **that really doesnt have anything to do with this thread** or wether raids are accessible or not. > > > > I was replying to a post that said raids are easy. That absolutely has something to do with this thread to me. If someone wants to say raids are easy, that's an opinion based on their current situation. Raids are easy for them, they're not easy for everyone...or at least not as easy for some people. I guess you could say it's off topic from the original poster, but then so is your post. > > > > By the same token I could say that the easiness or difficulty of raids is part of the topic, because without that, the need to sell/teach or otherwise find methods to make raids accessible to people who don't have as easy a time with them is actually on topic. That is to say, if raids are easy, as the person I was originally replying to was stating, then there's no need to change or do anything suggested in the OP, which seemed to be the response of the person who said they were easy. I was saying their response to the thread only really applies if raids are easy for everyone, which is obviously not going to be the case. > > No, the post you replied to didnt mention difficulty of raids(unless it was edited). It mentioned that Australia is a niche time slot, which it is if you consider player population. While I dont know the actual amount of players in comparison, it would be fair to assume that you'd have local servers if the population was of great significance. It would also be fair to assume that you'd have an easier time finding groups if more played in that timezone. > > It sucks that you have lag and/or can't find people to raid with, but it doesnt really have anything to do with the thread unless you mean that the suggestions by OP would mean that more oceanic players would be raiding. Personally, I'd be very sceptical to that. It was part of a longer conversation. The first post of that is much higher in the piece. The fact that the whole conversation wasn't carried over doesn't mean I don't remember the posts before it. A forum it's like a whole conversation, and this is how the conversation went. The OP said what's said in the OP, someone said that raiding is easy though implying that the whole thread was pointless, which I feel was on topic, even though I didn't agree. I pointed out raiding may not be easy, depending on who you are or where you live, thus trying to point out that you can't just dismiss the entire topic based on raids being easy. They're clearly not easy for everyone, even if one person does find them easy. Out of that someone singled out Australia as being niche, but it's not just Australians that have the problem and so my intital statement is still relevant even if Australia is niche, but again, I can't just comment on one part of a post and ignore everything that's come before and after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > Australia is not a niche time slot, mate. It's a country. We have lots of people. Making us into second class in game citizens is bad business, if you ask me. > > > > > > > Well, compared to the two big blocks (north america and EU), Australia certainly is a niche time slot. Just for perspective, you have less than 5% of the EU population. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we're going to marginalize whole countries. Australia is a country in a region referred to as the Oceanic Region and when you add up all the countries in that region, you have a lot more people. How many of them play Guild Wars 2 I have no idea, but let's not say that a percentage of the world should be excluded from content because they're not in the US, or that it's easy because it's easy for people in the US. We bought the game game that everyone else did, except we probably paid more for it. > > > > > > > > > > What does a whole country have to do with this? > > > > > > > > > > I was referring to player activity on the servers of EU and US. If Australians would have that many people, this would be a non issue. > > > > > > > > > > Thus from an activity perspective and player availability, the community from there is niche. > > > > > > > > It's not just this country. It's the whole area of the world. And it's harder to raid from here. > > > > > > > > Making blanket statements like it's easy to raid, because you live in the US just isn't true. Even in the US not everyone plays without lag or latency. > > > > > > Lag and latency depending on your conenction and proximity to the servers is a thing in all countries, thats just how it is. Obviously it is more common for oceanic players as you are far from the servers, but **that really doesnt have anything to do with this thread** or wether raids are accessible or not. > > > > I was replying to a post that said raids are easy. That absolutely has something to do with this thread to me. If someone wants to say raids are easy, that's an opinion based on their current situation. Raids are easy for them, they're not easy for everyone...or at least not as easy for some people. I guess you could say it's off topic from the original poster, but then so is your post. > > > > By the same token I could say that the easiness or difficulty of raids is part of the topic, because without that, the need to sell/teach or otherwise find methods to make raids accessible to people who don't have as easy a time with them is actually on topic. That is to say, if raids are easy, as the person I was originally replying to was stating, then there's no need to change or do anything suggested in the OP, which seemed to be the response of the person who said they were easy. I was saying their response to the thread only really applies if raids are easy for everyone, which is obviously not going to be the case. > > Actually you replied to a statement about oceanic players being a niche player segment. Not that raids are easy. No one said raids are easy, but rather that there is many ways to get into raiding which work and have worked. > > You then lump together multiple aspects like latency, player numbers (which obviously are low for oceanic players, otherwise there would be no issues to find off time raid groups as was claimed), raid difficulty, etc. trying to make something stick. > > **Latency** - is an issue on to its self. Would I love for oceanic players to have their own servers? Sure. That's beside the point at the moment though > > **Player Numbers** - as mentioned if this were not an issue because enough people were available, I would not refer to the player base from oceanic time zone as niche. Compared to the total number of players and activity, it is though as proven by people from this time zone complaining about not finding sufficient groups. > > **Difficulty and Accessibility** - this has been discussed to death. There is many ways to get into raiding. Offering additional rewards would barely improve the situation for oceanic players but would drastically alter the environment for every one else and as such has to be implemented carefully. > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > From the complaints, it's rather obvious that the East Asian market is no (general) solution to the problems of Oceanic players. By the way, I was talking about Oceania specifically, not East Asia. > > > > Australia is part of the East Asia Time zone. So what you really want to say is "I am looking to be right" but that time zone and area.. is MASSIVE for MMO's That is why, games like GW2 which are western developed and marketed MMO's are a rare breed. > > The Asian market is huge player wise, and tiny for most western MMOs. Even behemoth WoW is tiny compared to many asian MMO grinders. Thus from a market share perspective, it's mostly insignificant unless a western MMO actively tries to push into the market (which none are currently trying to). The same is true for asian MMO grinders in the western MMO market. While they boast huge numbers at home, they are at best small here. You have to go back further in the thread to see where that conversation started. It's true the person who said Australia is niche is right, but it's not relevant to my original comment they commented on which was longer and more poignant to the topic at hand. My main point was that someone earlier on said raiding was easy, trying to essesntially dismiss the whole premise of the OP. The implication, I would imagine is, if raiding is easy, then we don't need this topic, or any kind of strategy. I'm not saying I agree with the OP or I think the OP will work. I am saying that you can't dismiss it though on the basis of raids were easy. In that conversation the Australian conversation was one simple example. I was making a point that raiding isn't easy for everyone. Therefore the conversation started in the OP is at least a conversation that might be had. You can't just say raiding is easy. That was said in this thread, and it was what I was replying to when Australia was first mentioned. That part of the conversation was lost in bad cuts to the rest of what was being said and it looks like I've gone off topic. Key point here, to me, is that raiding isn't easy to everyone and it's certainly not easy to many who live in the Oceanic Region, not just Australia and there are plenty of us. And raiding isn't even easy for people with worse connections who live in the US and there are plenty of those to. Thus the ideas at least being discussed in the OP affect more than just the playerbase of Australia. If that idea got lost in the various cuts to posts, or if I wasn't clear enough, sorry about that. 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Magnus Godrik.5841 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > I think a couple things would be nice. A new Raid daily for bosses with the reward of an additional LI would be good and possibly some more gold. That would probably get more people to do certain bosses much like fractal dailies. > I like this idea. This will make me want to raid more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Nothing anyone has said is Anet's problem. Anet can't control how players act. As such, since its' a player issue, there is nothing Anet needs to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Chris McSwag.4683" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > Australia is not a niche time slot, mate. It's a country. We have lots of people. Making us into second class in game citizens is bad business, if you ask me. > > > > > > > > Well, compared to the two big blocks (north america and EU), Australia certainly is a niche time slot. Just for perspective, you have less than 5% of the EU population. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So we're going to marginalize whole countries. Australia is a country in a region referred to as the Oceanic Region and when you add up all the countries in that region, you have a lot more people. How many of them play Guild Wars 2 I have no idea, but let's not say that a percentage of the world should be excluded from content because they're not in the US, or that it's easy because it's easy for people in the US. We bought the game game that everyone else did, except we probably paid more for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > What does a whole country have to do with this? > > > > > > > > > > > > I was referring to player activity on the servers of EU and US. If Australians would have that many people, this would be a non issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus from an activity perspective and player availability, the community from there is niche. > > > > > > > > > > It's not just this country. It's the whole area of the world. And it's harder to raid from here. > > > > > > > > > > Making blanket statements like it's easy to raid, because you live in the US just isn't true. Even in the US not everyone plays without lag or latency. > > > > > > > > Lag and latency depending on your conenction and proximity to the servers is a thing in all countries, thats just how it is. Obviously it is more common for oceanic players as you are far from the servers, but **that really doesnt have anything to do with this thread** or wether raids are accessible or not. > > > > > > I was replying to a post that said raids are easy. That absolutely has something to do with this thread to me. If someone wants to say raids are easy, that's an opinion based on their current situation. Raids are easy for them, they're not easy for everyone...or at least not as easy for some people. I guess you could say it's off topic from the original poster, but then so is your post. > > > > > > By the same token I could say that the easiness or difficulty of raids is part of the topic, because without that, the need to sell/teach or otherwise find methods to make raids accessible to people who don't have as easy a time with them is actually on topic. That is to say, if raids are easy, as the person I was originally replying to was stating, then there's no need to change or do anything suggested in the OP, which seemed to be the response of the person who said they were easy. I was saying their response to the thread only really applies if raids are easy for everyone, which is obviously not going to be the case. > > > > Actually you replied to a statement about oceanic players being a niche player segment. Not that raids are easy. No one said raids are easy, but rather that there is many ways to get into raiding which work and have worked. > > > > You then lump together multiple aspects like latency, player numbers (which obviously are low for oceanic players, otherwise there would be no issues to find off time raid groups as was claimed), raid difficulty, etc. trying to make something stick. > > > > **Latency** - is an issue on to its self. Would I love for oceanic players to have their own servers? Sure. That's beside the point at the moment though > > > > **Player Numbers** - as mentioned if this were not an issue because enough people were available, I would not refer to the player base from oceanic time zone as niche. Compared to the total number of players and activity, it is though as proven by people from this time zone complaining about not finding sufficient groups. > > > > **Difficulty and Accessibility** - this has been discussed to death. There is many ways to get into raiding. Offering additional rewards would barely improve the situation for oceanic players but would drastically alter the environment for every one else and as such has to be implemented carefully. > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > > From the complaints, it's rather obvious that the East Asian market is no (general) solution to the problems of Oceanic players. By the way, I was talking about Oceania specifically, not East Asia. > > > > > > Australia is part of the East Asia Time zone. So what you really want to say is "I am looking to be right" but that time zone and area.. is MASSIVE for MMO's That is why, games like GW2 which are western developed and marketed MMO's are a rare breed. > > > > The Asian market is huge player wise, and tiny for most western MMOs. Even behemoth WoW is tiny compared to many asian MMO grinders. Thus from a market share perspective, it's mostly insignificant unless a western MMO actively tries to push into the market (which none are currently trying to). The same is true for asian MMO grinders in the western MMO market. While they boast huge numbers at home, they are at best small here. > > You have to go back further in the thread to see where that conversation started. It's true the person who said Australia is niche is right, but it's not relevant to my original comment they commented on which was longer and more poignant to the topic at hand. My main point was that someone earlier on said raiding was easy, trying to essesntially dismiss the whole premise of the OP. The implication, I would imagine is, if raiding is easy, then we don't need this topic, or any kind of strategy. I'm not saying I agree with the OP or I think the OP will work. I am saying that you can't dismiss it though on the basis of raids were easy. > > In that conversation the Australian conversation was one simple example. I was making a point that raiding isn't easy for everyone. Therefore the conversation started in the OP is at least a conversation that might be had. You can't just say raiding is easy. That was said in this thread, and it was what I was replying to when Australia was first mentioned. That part of the conversation was lost in bad cuts to the rest of what was being said and it looks like I've gone off topic. > > Key point here, to me, is that raiding isn't easy to everyone and it's certainly not easy to many who live in the Oceanic Region, not just Australia and there are plenty of us. And raiding isn't even easy for people with worse connections who live in the US and there are plenty of those to. Thus the ideas at least being discussed in the OP affect more than just the playerbase of Australia. > > If that idea got lost in the various cuts to posts, or if I wasn't clear enough, sorry about that. Ah that makes a lot more sense. Okay it seemed as though suddenly oceanic latency issues were more important than the basic design behind raids. While I feel for people with worse connectivity (there is quite a big African gaming community affected by this as well), the 2 issues are separate and need separate addressing. As far as raid difficulty, I would definitely not call them easy especially since the game overall does a mediocre job at preparing people for them. I personally was more focused on the fact of how accessibility for raids works. Obviously if they were over simplified the entry barrier would be lower (sort of like dungeons or low tier fractals) at the expense of design and longevity. Let's wait and see if arenanet decides to address this issue. If they do decide this needs adjusting I hope they come up with a good and healthy solution. If they decide to not change anything I'll personally assume they are happy or content with how well the player base is able to access raids (backed by concrete numbers which they have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Felipe.1807" said: > > > And I am 100% cool with > > _You_ are. Some other people apparently aren't. > > > > Not that i think the problem OP brought up has any valid solution. As long as people will want to buy the content, there will be sellers. At the same time, as long as the income from selling the content is significant, there's nothing you can offer the sellers to make them decide to engage in activity that might lower that income. > > > > Basically, the only things that can make the issue less visible (and lower the prices) is either: > > - make the content less interesting for players that might have a difficulty in running it, or > > - lower the difficulty, so more people will run it on their own without feeling a need to buy it > > > > Not sure if that's what OP intends however. > > > > > > There have always been people selling content, even in Guild Wars 1. People selling Althea's Ashes. People opening gates for you, so you can solo the charr area in pre. People selling the last mission in factions. People selling specific dungeons. I even remember people selling runs for rangers to tame a black widow in the Underworld. Not sure why it's such a problem now when it's always been with us. Yes. Why i said "make the issue _less visible_", not "make the issue disappear". You can't make it disappear. You can only make the potential buyers less willing to shell out bigger amounts of money. (also, selling Althea's Ashes was a pure scam) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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