Do You Raid?

[Hypatia.3160]

Loved raiding in _Wildstar_ and _SW:TOR_ and hoping to get into it here once I get around to looking for a guild to hang out with. Not quite ready for that yet but not too much longer.

[Avigrus.2871]

No, I play WvW only (used to PvP some as well).

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > > > > > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > > > > > > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The problem is,if they set it up so that Raids are "End game" then everyone will want to do them. Now in games that have raids from the start, it's not such a big matter, as everyone walking in knows they need to either get gud, or they wont be end -game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Some games have varying raids, like easy Raids, Hard Raids, and often the solution to most of these games is power creep. Power Creep allows more casual players to level beyond a raid, and then do it, maybe for the story, or maybe because of a look or even in some cases the raid gear is still better then the higher level loot-gen gear, so it's worth it to hem to still do the Raid over level. So there is still a motive.. and all the "hard core" players have moved on to the next harder raid.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > MMO's built that way.. work.. because that kind of system works with that kind of game content.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In a game like GW2, it does not work as well, because there is no leveling power creep, thus the raids become stagnant, those that do them will memorize them to the point that they are trivial and boring, and this demand harder and harder content.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Where in games like WoW that was easily provided by a level up, a new raid that was harder then the last one, and the gear that will make it easy is locked behind the raid itself., by the time people master that content, they put out a new expansion, and keep the process going. Perfect for people that enjoy raids and the challenge associated with them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > GW2 has trapped themselves by saying they would have no Level-Up power creep. So the raids we have today will remain max level.. and for raiders they will spiral down to bland and boring. and for those that can't do them they will remain forever out of their reach.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > GW2 was in every way, the wrong game set up to add raids.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Games like WoW were perfect in their game set up and system for Raids.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can see it in this topic alone, people get their armor, their gear, and.. then.. much like Dungeons after you got the gear,, Raids lose their shine. If the rewards in raids remain Good, people will farm them like they did CoF, and much like CoF farm, if you were not experienced and and didn't have the right build.. you would pretty much never going to get into a group.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's not "Raids" that are the problem. Raids are amazing in some games, they are the games life blood,.. but GW2 is just the wrong game system for them.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is no true end game in Gw2 which makes the rest of your post completely irrelevant.

> > > >

> > > > if that was true.. no one would have asked for raids

> > >

> > > You are really confused on what end game is and means.

> > >

> > > End game is content that you do for character power progression which doesn't really exist in this game at least in the form of Raiding, PvP'ing, WvW fractals etc.. which is considering end game in other games because the best gear and character stat increasing is tied to it. You choose to Raid and PvP because that is your preferred content.

> >

> > LOL.. sure.. keep telling yourself that.

> > I've had this exchange more times then I care to admit. sorry.. not worth the effort to do it again.

>

> Being wrong is not the end of the world.

 

I'll take your word on that.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > >

> > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> >

> > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

>

> Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

>

if only those 5 % paid for them , it would be acceptable

since they arent...no

[Henry.5713]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > > >

> > > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> > >

> > > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

> >

> > Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

> >

> if only those 5 % paid for them , it would be acceptable

> since they arent...no

 

What a silly remark. I payed for all of the Open World content which makes up a huge chunk of the game and takes the majority of dev time and I never acutally play it. Non-raiders paying for the raids is quite acceptable in comparison. Entitlement at it's best.

[Rinn.2375]

I want dungeons back :(

[Chris McSwag.4683]

> @"Auri.1365" said:

> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

>

> > GW2 raids are not, of course, tuned for the most optimal party setup. However, they are tuned to at least offer a challenge to players who are going to bring the optimal. Given the difference in effectiveness, that means that a lot of builds which are adequate anywhere else in GW2 (other than, perhaps, ranked PvP or premade WvW groups) are more likely to fail.

>

> You can for example do Gorse (no updraft, so with high dps check) with a non-meta setup. Our main chrono tank wasn't there and another exp chrono didn't have time either. So we had a semi exp chrono with no tank gear and me with hardly any experience on chrono and no tank gear as well.

> So in the end we had a scourge as tank, two not very exp chronos, a newbie who hasn't done Gorse before and in general people not playing their usual class/role.

> And it still worked.

> (BTW my guild raids casually and we don't even do full clears and most of us just do average dps)

>

> There are many builds and setups that work without being meta.

>

>

 

Just to point out, no-updraft Gorseval is not a high dps check unless you literally have no clue what you are doing.

Its easily doable with chrono, war, druid and 5x PP Thieves doing nothing but aa, unload and thieves guild.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > > > >

> > > > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> > > >

> > > > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

> > >

> > > Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

> > >

> > if only those 5 % paid for them , it would be acceptable

> > since they arent...no

>

> What a silly remark. I payed for all of the Open World content which makes up a huge chunk of the game and takes the majority of dev time and I never acutally play it. Non-raiders paying for the raids is quite acceptable in comparison. Entitlement at it's best.

 

There is a massive difference between you choosing not to play content that is well within your skills and abilities, and being forced to fund content that designed to be above your skill bracket.

 

Personally, I think selling raid content as it's own DLC package would solve this problem. They could sell additional Open World maps as well, since they sell Living Story (for anyone that was not playing when it was put out, like I missed LW3, and had to pay for it) this would not be some new thing for them. I made a [Poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/14165/poll-would-you-buy/p1 "Poll") a while back about what people would buy, and truth be told, people will buy content they enjoy, and there is nothing wrong with selling them that content directly. If the content can support itself then more of it should be made.. if not.. then it wasn't really the right content for this games community.

 

People always talk about voting with their wallet.. selling DLC like raids, dungeons, and other content, is a perfect way to allow the community to vote with their wallet.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Henry.5713" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > @"Vulf.3098" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Henry.5713" said:

> > > > > Sometimes wonder if half of the people talking about toxic raiders even bothered to try raids properly in the first place or if they are simply repeating that stereotype because of something they heard second hand? Also makes me wonder why most people in the raiding guilds I know aren't even close to being that way.

> > > > > Guess I am just lucky.

> > > > >

> > > > > On the actual numbers: Why would anyone consider these low numbers in any way representable for the overall population? Not to mention that raids should indeed be considered a huge success if 15% of the overall population actually raided regularly.

> > > >

> > > > I would be amazed if it was 15% to be honest. Anet said that 20% "tried" raids. I would imagine far less continued on with them.

> > >

> > > Even if it was as low as 5% of the population that is still a very acceptable number for content that is supposed to be niche. It would be problem if raiding was the main focal point in the game which is not and should never be.

> > >

> > if only those 5 % paid for them , it would be acceptable

> > since they arent...no

>

> What a silly remark. I payed for all of the Open World content which makes up a huge chunk of the game and takes the majority of dev time and I never acutally play it. Non-raiders paying for the raids is quite acceptable in comparison. Entitlement at it's best.

 

you want me to fund your content , but youre still calling ME entitled? elitism at its finest

since they implemented raids, this community has taken a dive

[Shirlias.8104]

Almost 50 % not interested + tried and didn't work out for them.

 

And also 25% players do raid.

 

Definitely good.

 

A dedicated subforum for those who are having hard time setting up a pug could be useful in order to semplify it all and Bring in more players.

 

But really the results are definitely good.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> Almost 50 % not interested + tried and didn't work out for them.

>

> And also 25% players do raid.

>

> Definitely good.

>

> A dedicated subforum for those who are having hard time setting up a pug could be useful in order to semplify it all and Bring in more players.

>

> But really the results are definitely good.

 

lol..25 % of total players would be around 2.5 mio

25% of ACTIVE players would be around 500k

if this was true, they would had broken all records and statistics

[Shirlias.8104]

I doubt.

Unless you say they managed to sell 2.5 mil copies.

 

I am not sure they managed to sell 700k pof copies yet, but I could be wrong.

 

Ps: btw it's just a forum survey, so it couldn't be pretty accurate.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > Almost 50 % not interested + tried and didn't work out for them.

> >

> > And also 25% players do raid.

> >

> > Definitely good.

> >

> > A dedicated subforum for those who are having hard time setting up a pug could be useful in order to semplify it all and Bring in more players.

> >

> > But really the results are definitely good.

>

> lol..25 % of total players would be around 2.5 mio

> 25% of ACTIVE players would be around 500k

> if this was true, they would had broken all records and statistics

 

GW2 doesn't have (or ever had) 10 mil players

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > Almost 50 % not interested + tried and didn't work out for them.

> > >

> > > And also 25% players do raid.

> > >

> > > Definitely good.

> > >

> > > A dedicated subforum for those who are having hard time setting up a pug could be useful in order to semplify it all and Bring in more players.

> > >

> > > But really the results are definitely good.

> >

> > lol..25 % of total players would be around 2.5 mio

> > 25% of ACTIVE players would be around 500k

> > if this was true, they would had broken all records and statistics

>

> GW2 doesn't have (or ever had) 10 mil players

 

http://massivelyop.com/2017/09/22/guild-wars-2-counts-11-million-players/

 

Although, no doubt many of these are multiple accounts from the same user.

And I'm sure it's a far cry from the active player base.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > Almost 50 % not interested + tried and didn't work out for them.

> > > >

> > > > And also 25% players do raid.

> > > >

> > > > Definitely good.

> > > >

> > > > A dedicated subforum for those who are having hard time setting up a pug could be useful in order to semplify it all and Bring in more players.

> > > >

> > > > But really the results are definitely good.

> > >

> > > lol..25 % of total players would be around 2.5 mio

> > > 25% of ACTIVE players would be around 500k

> > > if this was true, they would had broken all records and statistics

> >

> > GW2 doesn't have (or ever had) 10 mil players

>

> http://massivelyop.com/2017/09/22/guild-wars-2-counts-11-million-players/

>

> Although, no doubt many of these are multiple accounts from the same user.

> And I'm sure it's a far cry from the active player base.

 

This article provides false information. The infographic from PoF release talked about 11 mil accounts. This means F2P aswell. You have no way to count exact number of players using this data. There are people having multiple paid accounts and god knows how many F2P accounts. These factors inflated the number. It looks nice on paper but when you think about it it's not that impressive. Not to mention it most likely covers banned accounts aswell.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > > Almost 50 % not interested + tried and didn't work out for them.

> > > > >

> > > > > And also 25% players do raid.

> > > > >

> > > > > Definitely good.

> > > > >

> > > > > A dedicated subforum for those who are having hard time setting up a pug could be useful in order to semplify it all and Bring in more players.

> > > > >

> > > > > But really the results are definitely good.

> > > >

> > > > lol..25 % of total players would be around 2.5 mio

> > > > 25% of ACTIVE players would be around 500k

> > > > if this was true, they would had broken all records and statistics

> > >

> > > GW2 doesn't have (or ever had) 10 mil players

> >

> > http://massivelyop.com/2017/09/22/guild-wars-2-counts-11-million-players/

> >

> > Although, no doubt many of these are multiple accounts from the same user.

> > And I'm sure it's a far cry from the active player base.

>

> This article provides false information. The infographic from PoF release talked about 11 mil accounts. This means F2P aswell. You have no way to count exact number of players using this data. There are people having multiple paid accounts and god knows how many F2P accounts. These factors inflated the number. It looks nice on paper but when you think about it it's not that impressive. Not to mention it most likely covers banned accounts aswell.

 

I mentioned that below the link.

 

Point is, you have no idea either.

This is all we have to go by.

[Sykper.6583]

While the poll can in no way tell us the real numbers in game, it's worth noting that given the state of the opinion on these forums about raiding, there's still within my expectations the majority that simply isn't interested in them, and a greater than expected % of players who are actively raiding often.

 

Even if the real numbers were literally half the participation of the forums which are notoriously critical of literally anything in game, Raids would still be well-played content given their niche intended audience. Naturally that's all speculation again, but if the content is played to an acceptable level that Arenanet wants to have, Raids will continue to be made in their current image. And speaking broadly the informal poll did not counter their claim at all rather one could say it reinforced their numbers.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > > > Almost 50 % not interested + tried and didn't work out for them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And also 25% players do raid.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Definitely good.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A dedicated subforum for those who are having hard time setting up a pug could be useful in order to semplify it all and Bring in more players.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But really the results are definitely good.

> > > > >

> > > > > lol..25 % of total players would be around 2.5 mio

> > > > > 25% of ACTIVE players would be around 500k

> > > > > if this was true, they would had broken all records and statistics

> > > >

> > > > GW2 doesn't have (or ever had) 10 mil players

> > >

> > > http://massivelyop.com/2017/09/22/guild-wars-2-counts-11-million-players/

> > >

> > > Although, no doubt many of these are multiple accounts from the same user.

> > > And I'm sure it's a far cry from the active player base.

> >

> > This article provides false information. The infographic from PoF release talked about 11 mil accounts. This means F2P aswell. You have no way to count exact number of players using this data. There are people having multiple paid accounts and god knows how many F2P accounts. These factors inflated the number. It looks nice on paper but when you think about it it's not that impressive. Not to mention it most likely covers banned accounts aswell.

>

> I mentioned that below the link.

>

> Point is, you have no idea either.

> This is all we have to go by.

 

But what I said is true. GW2 doesn't have and never had 10 mil players. Period.

[Taltevus.3289]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > Hope ArenaNet is seeing these numbers.

>

> Anet has better numbers. The numbers of this poll show the number of people who visit the forum who raid. I suspect this poll is skewed, since I"m fairly sure most of the game's population doesn't frequently the forums. The more vested people are in the game over all, the more likely they are to be here, and the more likely they are to raid. I'd be surprised if 85% of the game's active population has ever set foot in a raid.

 

Hun...I honestly think there are more people on the forums than in the game most nights. I know it seems a smartass thing to say but...I really do wonder sometimes.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Taltevus.3289" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > Hope ArenaNet is seeing these numbers.

> >

> > Anet has better numbers. The numbers of this poll show the number of people who visit the forum who raid. I suspect this poll is skewed, since I"m fairly sure most of the game's population doesn't frequently the forums. The more vested people are in the game over all, the more likely they are to be here, and the more likely they are to raid. I'd be surprised if 85% of the game's active population has ever set foot in a raid.

>

> Hun...I honestly think there are more people on the forums than in the game most nights. I know it seems a kitten thing to say but...I really do wonder sometimes.

 

Way off topic mate. But even if your point was true, and I seriously doubt it, you'd be proving my point. If more people are on the forums than the game, than any forum poll would give numbers that wouldn't reflect the reality of the game either. Anet's numbers on who's actually raiding would be better.

 

Actually Anet's numbers would count me and my wife as raiding and we both dislike what raiding has done to the game.

[qbalrog.8017]

Agree with the time commit and toxicity comments.

 

Would be much more interested in most multiplayer instanced content if devs provided more variability and less scripted material.

 

I don't mind some simon-says but the training necessary to learn to follow some arbitray script (rub your head in the green circle now scratch your nose in the blue circle) does not appeal to me.

[Rhiannon.1726]

> @"qbalrog.8017" said:

> Agree with the time commit and toxicity comments.

>

> Would be much more interested in most multiplayer instanced content if devs provided more variability and less scripted material.

>

> I don't mind some simon-says but the training necessary to learn to follow some arbitray script (rub your head in the green circle now scratch your nose in the blue circle) does not appeal to me.

 

What do you mean with „viriability“? Something like a 25% chance, that either w, x, y or z happens?

 

I don’t think that would be good, because it would make raiding more difficult to learn, especially for groups that don’t play often.

It also would mean „luck“ or RNG, wether you get the easier mechanic or the mechanic your group (or group composition) is better prepared for, or if you get the mechanic you hardly can handle.

 

[Sister Saxifrage.7361]

I'm on the absolute periphery of raiding; I bring my fractal-tuned heal druid (/condi soulbeast but no one's ever asked for that) to our weekly training run. It's about supporting my guildies in a group activity, more than it is about success. I enjoy it because they're my guildies, and because they're my guildies the education does not dissolve into the ocean of anonymous mediocrity. We will succeed eventually. But I could not tolerate the same process with a PUG (see: ocean), and I don't have a stable enough schedule to join a static, so that's all the raiding I do. Fractals are much more my speed.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

Other, I play a Power Reaper so no one wants me.

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"Oldirtbeard.9834" said:

> Other, I play a Power Reaper so no one wants me.

 

I take my power reaper to KC some weeks for the lols.