Mysticjedi.6053 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Agony flavor wise feels justifiable, but is it really necessary? It kind of feels like an unnecessary gate to content. Is there another way to make the content difficult without agony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 AR in my mind, it's like making sure people spend the time to equip fire resistance before facing a fire dragon, sure you don't need, but you are going to be crispy fried adventure if you don't have it. Now, you can do T1 with not AR at all, so you are not gated from fractals if you don't have AR, it just makes it so you need to put in some investment if you want to move up the numbers. But again, there is no need to move up the numbers either if you don't want to. Since it's purely on the individual to pursue it, I like it in that regard. It weens out the people that really don't know what they are doing or trying to do something without thinking about it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Darkmoor.3269 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 I would say it's an unnecessary gate, but agony is a 2 part system. A powerful condition unique to fractals and a item that can be placed in your armor to mitigate it. The reality is that you still get punished for making a mistake and getting afflicted with Agony. Even when your AR is significant enough to reduce the damage from agony to negligible levels you still suffer 70% penalty to healing while under the effect of Agony. (Not an insignificant amount if you time your heal poorly, tl;dr it can significantly wreck your day if you get hit at the wrong time) The main issue is with the acquisition method and utilization of Agony Resistance. Agony as a condition is fine imo, but the AR creates a rather high gate to bringing multiple different characters into fractals since it is inextricably linked to armor. This is why they are experimenting with the new Account based buffs for Fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazut.4296 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Its artificial, I dislike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostDraco.8306 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 > @"mazut.4296" said: > Its artificial, I dislike. This whole game is artificial. That's not an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Ar provides goals and motivation for people climbing the AR ladder while at the same time not blocking new players from enjoying the fractal dungeons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Agony is a good thing, since it blocks total newbies from high level fractals and can hurt even people with full resistance (70% healing debuff ftw). The system of character-bound AR, however, is outdated, but changing it without breaking the fractal economy is no easy task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Saxifrage.7361 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 The linking of agony resistance with ascended gear forces people to put in a high minimum of effort to be allowed to participate at t4. I don't think that's a bad choice, actually, because fractals are meant to be fast 5-man content, easily tackled with a PUG, and part of that is enforcing some minimum standards at the highest levels, like decent gear. T4 LFG would be a no-man's land if everybody was allowed in with the soldier's exotics they got with their level 80 boost, or the level 60 leveling greens they haven't bothered to upgrade. Those sorts of people *are* present in T1, so they're not barred from the content, just the more challenging and rewarding versions of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 They should do the exact same for raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticjedi.6053 Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 I get the gate from newbs argument. I simply dislike the acquisition and what feels like a continously grind to improve AR until 100. I was just curious as to people's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Also without agony i would demand asc equiptment too be removed too since its not having any point anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 I am not against account bound AR, it would make it easier on me to put my other characters into Fractals, but, AR serves a gear purpose, to ensure by T4 you have neat complete Ascended. if it became Account bound, can you imagine the influx of people in exotics or less trying to do T4, because they bought enough AR for their account but never needed to get any gear to equip it. Naah Gear Bound AR ensures that any Character in that content.. is geared and built for that content.. the way it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickbuds.6950 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I like it. This game is far too easy in general. The fact that you need to equip a character with full ascended and 150 AR in order is a longterm goal and very achievable if you enjoy fractals. Fractal rewards are quite good in tier 4 so it shouldn't be easy to achieve. The current system great, nothing needs to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I hate it. I stopped doing Fractals as a result. It is cheap, artificial difficulty and a timegate for progression. Thank Bear for Raids to get me that PvE fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eramonster.2718 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Mysticjedi.6053" said: > Agony flavor wise feels justifiable, but is it really necessary? It kind of feels like an unnecessary gate to content. > > Is there another way to make the content difficult without agony? Think it was mentioned before, fractal is a tool to teach players (to get used to mechanics etc) by gradually adding the difficulties of the encounters. (Eg. Bosses deals more dmg, more abilities, changes when HP reached certain threshold etc) Tho this process feels draggy for experienced players, its just a way Anet implement for players(new or intends) climbing the ladder. View fractal levels as a training program, meant for players to slowly progress and the 'timegate' is a byproduct. Famous "Working as intended" quote here. It won't effect experienced players, but it is necessary. Can imagine the screams, when players are exposed to full brunt of 'Shattered Observatory Fractal' instead of the simplified versions while climbing. Plus there's always the +AR potion if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry.5713 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 The AR limit feels like a closed gate because it was always intended to be just that. They have already done multiple changes such as making items account bound or to rework infusions to no longer force you through the slow AR grind that was present before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Question: Is agony needed or necessary? Answer: No, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > Question: Is agony needed or necessary? > > Answer: No, it's not. No question is should agony stay? Answer: no it should not stay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xDudisx.5914 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Agony should be account bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"xDudisx.5914" said: > Agony should be account bound. Nah wipe it away so all can come too play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silmar Alech.4305 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 It is a necessary gate to prevent total newbies flooding higher fractals they are not able to handle. I see it in my guild: from time to time we get new members and pull them into fractals to avoid filling our guild teams from lfg. We pull them too early in too high levels. We give them infusions so they can play the higher levels. They have enough AR, but they only die and are not able to contribute, because they are not used to the mechanics. It's no pleasant experience for all of us: we veterans carry them and they are only fighting for survival instead of fighting the enemy. I saw it just yesterday: T4 Bloomhunger with 5 guildies. 3 people not really ready for this, 2 experienced persons. I and my friend constantly revived our teammates. Each 3 of them died 3 times or more, I still had the singularity buff at the end - on a full berserk Tempest. Every time Bloomhunger stomped, one of the 3 were downed and eventually died, because they died at places far far away you don't usually go. Same with Cliffside and the Archdiviner. Going with a team from LFG is much more pleasant and much faster. The 3 guildies should do T2 or T3 more before doing T4. Usually, Agony enforces this. Remove Agony and T4 lfg will start to require killproofs or whatever is necessary to prove that you are experienced in T4. Today this is implicit with AR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardid.7203 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"FrostDraco.8306" said: > > @"mazut.4296" said: > > Its artificial, I dislike. > > This whole game is artificial. That's not an argument. Its forced difficulty, external to the gameplay. "Artificial" in the sense that its not integral with what you are playing. IMO its grind of the worst type, in a game that don't usually use that kind of forced stuff. I hope they make it truly integral with the gameplay in some fractals, and remove it completely from the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evellynn Capone.6584 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Silmar Alech.4305" said: > **THIS !!!** **It is a necessary gate to prevent total newbies flooding higher fractals. > Do T2 or T3 more before doing T4. Usually, Agony enforces this. Remove Agony and T4 lfg will start to require killproofs or whatever is necessary to prove that you are experienced in T4. Today this is implicit with AR.** I saw it Today again how unexpiered Players Join T4 Daylies and dont know how LvL 87 Twilight Oase work's. We was trying to explain but no Chance when PPL dont listen. Otherwise if U Join a T4 Group without Knowledge and less or / Full AR u get Kicked. Most Newcomers won't Accept and try to Insult via whisper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said: > > @"xDudisx.5914" said: > > Agony should be account bound. > > Nah wipe it away so all can come too play Agony does not exist in T1 fractals, feel free to come join us! we don't bite... much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > Question: Is agony needed or necessary? > > Answer: No, it's not. It is.. because it functions as a gate to get players to learn the Fractals on easy setting (T1) and then as they play, and learn the dungeons, and thus collect their +1's that they can make into better infusions to move up.. so.. it stops people from jumping into the deep end of the pool before they learned to swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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