Weaver Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[Azel.4786]

> @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:

> > @"ShadowRain X.8159" said:

> > > @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:

> > > Why do people keep assuming there are going to be Core changes when PoF drops? Source plz.

> >

> > As posted by the anet OP:

> >

> > There will be a couple more release notes on launch day for the core profession, but we want to deliver the Weaver information a little early so you can know what changed.

> Oh wow, I feel incredibly stupid now. Think I'm going to go crawl back in my hole and sulk....

>

> Guess I skipped straight to the fixes and missed it. Now I'm really worried about the hidden changes.

>

 

Well, don't be. There were actually nothing relevant for the elementalist.

 

Feels bad - I seriously hope they take a close look at Weaver traits soon - they are just not fun and not build defining.

 

Edit: I wonder what happened to the Barrier application being included in Earth Traitline that WP commented in one of his videos.... guess it didn't make the cut.

 

[Ashamir.9574]

So basically 90% of the beta feedback for Weaver as been ignored.

 

Still 4 seconds global CD on attunement swap, because why give a fuck? Still the same slow auto attack.

 

Why can other professions get changed after feedback but Ele stays the same?

 

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother writing feeback at all.

[MrAidenVoid.7416]

So, why does weaver still hit like a wet noodle, no matter what we run, either condi power or hybrid our dmg is less than core.

[BlackBeard.2873]

> @MrAidenVoid.7416 said:

> So, why does weaver still hit like a wet noodle, no matter what we run, either condi power or hybrid our dmg is less than core.

 

Because having short range should also mean you do less damage and have no ways to actually stick to a target or properly maintain adequate anti-power defense.

 

I mean, doesn't it make sense that dagger has more gap-closers AND damage than sword, plus more range, and more damage? Sword has all that defense in those two evade skills (vs. one on a shorter CD on dagger).

 

Weaver is so clunky to play...Ele is all about using attunements for on-demand access to skills, while weaver is all about...never having the skill you need and instead having even more lack-luster skills ontop of it!

[MrAidenVoid.7416]

> @BlackBeard.2873 said:

> > @MrAidenVoid.7416 said:

> > So, why does weaver still hit like a wet noodle, no matter what we run, either condi power or hybrid our dmg is less than core.

>

> Because having short range should also mean you do less damage and have no ways to actually stick to a target or properly maintain adequate anti-power defense.

>

> I mean, doesn't it make sense that dagger has more gap-closers AND damage than sword, plus more range, and more damage? Sword has all that defense in those two evade skills (vs. one on a shorter CD on dagger).

>

> Weaver is so clunky to play...Ele is all about using attunements for on-demand access to skills, while weaver is all about...never having the skill you need and instead having even more lack-luster skills ontop of it!

 

I disagree, Weaver plays fine it just doesnt do enough dmg, i mean the only 2 skills that do dmg is cauterizing strike and rusty frenzy, which both arent even going above 4k when u got 20 stacks of might.

I mean weaver was an dangerous close combat dmg dealer, yet all we get is mediocre dmg with a few evades, they need to buff the dmg of sword badly or it'l be a dead on release class.

[Azel.4786]

> @BlackBeard.2873 said:

> > @MrAidenVoid.7416 said:

> > So, why does weaver still hit like a wet noodle, no matter what we run, either condi power or hybrid our dmg is less than core.

>

> Because having short range should also mean you do less damage and have no ways to actually stick to a target or properly maintain adequate anti-power defense.

>

> I mean, doesn't it make sense that dagger has more gap-closers AND damage than sword, plus more range, and more damage? Sword has all that defense in those two evade skills (vs. one on a shorter CD on dagger).

>

> Weaver is so clunky to play...Ele is all about using attunements for on-demand access to skills, while weaver is all about...never having the skill you need and instead having even more lack-luster skills ontop of it!

 

I admit I am getting very disappointed by the minute with the Weaver. It feels terribly clunky and does awful damage.

 

Sword skills are terribly weak (I swap to fire from Air and I kick myself for not having Fire 3, but instead the dual skill that does pitful damage in Sword and in Dagger). Plus a lot of times I wish to have the off hand skills or have the weapon 3 skill not be the worthless dual skill, but alas no luck.

 

And again, I can't stress this enough - the traits are god awful.

 

Sad to see how the spec is turning out to be and I guess I might as well just transfer my legendaries to my mesmer or my necro for better use.

[QQing.3089]

I was liking weaver, until I played next to my friends on holosmith, spellbreaker and firebrand. Weaver needs work -.-. Sword might as well be a wet noodle.

[Wulf.5431]

Damage is super low but survivability is insane. I'm enjoying that part while it lasts!

[katniss.6735]

I'm enjoying d/c's and infinite loading screens in pve land while I try to figure out Sw/F. I think I died like 10 times at least as marauder w/fresh air/weaver.

[plushiesoda.8150]

Deleted in protest of anet leaving support ticket #7495730 without answer since October 10th 2019. It's sad how if this were a money-related issue you'd have answered within a couple of hours. At this point I'm not even mad, but disappointed by the mediocrity displayed by your community managers.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

Having played Weaver a bit now (staff power build, because I like the staff dual skills) there where two major issues for me.

 

1. I have Autocast on Air #4. When I'm attuned to Earth/Air I won't Autocast #4 Air Skill because I do not have Autocast on #4 Earth. But when I'm in Fire/Fire and switch to Air/Fire I will suddenly Auto Cast my Fire #4 (since I have Autocast on Air #4) which almost killed me a few times in WvW. Please fix auto cast keybinds to stick to their Elements no matter if they're on left or right hand! ** EDIT:** Forgot to mention, when I'm in Earth/Fire and switch to Air/Earth (remember I have Autocast on Air #4) I will suddenly cast Fire #4 even though I just switched to Air/Earth!

2. Like many others mentioned already, having so much cooldown on switching attunements is defying the purpose of the weaver. I think 4s to get to a different Attunement is okay (not perfect but I can live with that) But it should be shorter for any Attunements you're currently in. For example if I was in Fire/Fire and switch to Air/Fire the Cooldown on Earth & Water can be 4s but Fire & Air should have somewhere around 0.5s-1.5s CD but no more.

 

Some Minor issues would be:

* The fact that beeing in x/Air doesn't grant any Air traits (No movement speed, no precision, why design a spec around the ability to wield two attunements if you only gain the benefit of one?)

* The Cooldown of the Dual Skills should be slightly lower

* The Traits could be more interesting (Not really much of a choice there, for Power builds you take 1|2|1 or 2 and for hybrid it's 1/1/1 or 2 (maybe 3 on the first choice if you're wielding sword but I haven't tried sword at all so yeah)

* Piledriver (Air+Earth Dualskill) should have higher range, somewhere around 1600. I love the skill but it's really disappointing to watch your cannonball fly and just vanish right in front of your enemies face.

* Not sure about this last point, maybe I just had some weird laggs but sometimes after the improved swiftness (40% movement speed instead of 33%) expired I would be a lot slower then normal speed until I buff swiftness again. As in, I'm not in combat, buff swiftness, am super fast, swiftness expires and I'm moving at in-combat-speed although I'm not in combat. I buff swiftness again, everything normal, after swiftness expires as well. Couldn't reproduce this though but it happened once or twice. As I said I'm not sure if this is a bug or just a well timed weird lagg on my side.

 

 

(Sidenote: I'm super happy with how PoF has turned out, so far I absolutely love the maps and the story, that more then makes up for my disappointment in weaver :) )

[morrolan.9608]

Just playing the start of PoF story now and sword is so underpowered its ridiculous. This has been feedback since the testing so why so few changes.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

 

> * Unravel Hexes: Trait has been renamed to Woven Stride. Trait now grants swiftness when inhibiting conditions are inflicted, regeneration when swiftness or superspeed is gained, and increases swiftness effectiveness from 33% to 40%.

 

This change is SO annoying, this shows 100% that Anet WANT to force ele to be reliant on the Water trait line for condi removal. This trait COULD have been a great way to not shoehorn players into Water, but no. That wouldn't be what Anet wants. Elementalists have been crying for GOOD condi removal outside of Water since beta! We had that in Diamond Skin, it was a GREAT trait that was strong but easily countered by not being full bunker Condi. That was then gutted and made useless.

 

This trait IS the same. Without Water traitline, this trait is pretty dreadful. The worst part is, we have traits that slightly counter Movement condis. Our biggest problem with Conditions are the damaging ones, the ones that can melt you in seconds and this trait does NOTHING to help fix that. Even with taking Water, you are still reliant on using certain other traitlines and/or skills to get an affect from it. This isnt what Ele needed. They need a viable condi removal/counter that wasnt reliant on other traits lines. Wasnt reliant on needed specific skills and abilities

 

 

 

 

[PainbowBrite.3785]

So, maybe I'm Wierd, but I think the gcd is fine. Granted im using arc/water/weav, but i rarely feel locked out when i need it. Using sw/d, I don't feel sword is weak outside of the AA. Honestly, I rarely get to the 3rd hit. Too busy weaving and using skills. Cast times need to drop or just get rid of the chain and boost the dmg.

 

Arc/wat survivability is fantastic.

[Jski.6180]

Why not just make it a condi clear when you get swiftness or super speed?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Jski.6180 said:

> Why not just make it a condi clear when you get swiftness or super speed?

 

One simple reason. We wouldn't need Water. The biggest problem i have with it is that while other classes do have trait lines but those that dont have such great condi removal in traitlines, Mesmer for example. Have some great skills for condi removal, Phantasmal Disencharter for example is a HUGELY important skill, removes condis AND boons, has a MUCH lower cool down and if played right can stay up to continue removing boons and condis. Then look at Cleansing Fire - 3 Condis removed 3stacks of Burning for 4 seconds on a 40second cool down!? If you're not playing Condi or hybrid the burning is USELESS why does it have a 40second cool down!? Guardian get a stun break and a condi to boon skill on the same cool down!

 

The other reason this would be a bad idea - it still requires another traitline, it would move from Water to being needed to make Air being needed and wouldnt do anything to change the need for specific skills, traits and weapons to make use of it. We need a condi removal that is based around Weaver. Not needing other Traitlines.

 

How about this:

 

Hexed Strikes: Using a Dual skill grants Resistance. Remove 1 Condition every second when you have Resistance active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

 

Make it so that its only SELF applied Barrier that grants the condi removal and i think this would be decent. I mean even with the 1 condi removed every 1/2second with Barrier still wouldnt make our barrier much good anyway. The 50second cool down barrier is like 3.5k. Easily countered by an auto attack lol

[The Great Al.2546]

Karl, is sword designed to be a damage dealing weapon or not? Why are the AAs so slow and why does it get out DPS'd by every other weapon, including ranged ones?

[Jski.6180]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Jski.6180 said:

> > Why not just make it a condi clear when you get swiftness or super speed?

>

> One simple reason. We wouldn't need Water. The biggest problem i have with it is that while other classes do have trait lines but those that dont have such great condi removal in traitlines, Mesmer for example. Have some great skills for condi removal, Phantasmal Disencharter for example is a HUGELY important skill, removes condis AND boons, has a MUCH lower cool down and if played right can stay up to continue removing boons and condis. Then look at Cleansing Fire - 3 Condis removed 3stacks of Burning for 4 seconds on a 40second cool down!? If you're not playing Condi or hybrid the burning is USELESS why does it have a 40second cool down!? Guardian get a stun break and a condi to boon skill on the same cool down!

>

> The other reason this would be a bad idea - it still requires another traitline, it would move from Water to being needed to make Air being needed and wouldnt do anything to change the need for specific skills, traits and weapons to make use of it. We need a condi removal that is based around Weaver. Not needing other Traitlines.

>

> How about this:

>

> Hexed Strikes: Using a Dual skill grants Resistance. Remove 1 Condition every second when you have Resistance active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

>

> Make it so that its only SELF applied Barrier that grants the condi removal and i think this would be decent. I mean even with the 1 condi removed every 1/2second with Barrier still wouldnt make our barrier much good anyway. The 50second cool down barrier is like 3.5k. Easily countered by an auto attack lol

 

What are you talking about there not nearly enofe swiftness that ele can genrat to where you could only have the one trait to deal with all the condis in spvp and wvw. Must like you cant just have the water / reg version alone to deal with all the condis and offten you need to run both the clear and reg on other effects and clears from thoughts effects too. Tempest had to run reg on auras to make it worth it weaver would have to run swiftness on auras to make a blunt swiftness cleaing condis and we are talking about self only clears not group.

 

Any way beyond that how can any one even call weaver a dmg line when there not even one unblockae burst skill. If there no anty dmg mitigation on a line it is NOT a dmg line.

 

Who ever made this class knowing they been working on it for 4 years ish and this is what we have to show for it needs to realty answer for this. Look at other class elite spec and how many full condi clears they get the cd and the added effects weaver got the worst of it all from dmg condi clear heals unitlys stab boons the list goes on. This is a compel failure of a class and a lot of ppl should not be in a good places about this.

 

I love the video too every one say it has its own rhythm nothing about how good it is or what effects it has they knew this was going to be a trainwreck of a class.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @Jski.6180 said:

> What are you talking about there not nearly enofe swiftness that ele can genrat to where you could only have the one trait to deal with all the condis in spvp and wvw. Must like you cant just have the water / reg version alone to deal with all the condis and offten you need to run both the clear and reg on other effects and clears from thoughts effects too. Tempest had to run reg on auras to make it worth it weaver would have to run swiftness on auras to make a blunt swiftness cleaing condis and we are talking about self only clears not group.

>

> Any way beyond that how can any one even call weaver a dmg line when there not even one unblockae burst skill. If there no anty dmg mitigation on a line it is NOT a dmg line.

>

> Who ever made this class knowing they been working on it for 4 years ish and this is what we have to show for it needs to realty answer for this. Look at other class elite spec and how many full condi clears they get the cd and the added effects weaver got the worst of it all from dmg condi clear heals unitlys stab boons the list goes on. This is a compel failure of a class and a lot of ppl should not be in a good places about this.

>

> I love the video too every one say it has its own rhythm nothing about how good it is or what effects it has they knew this was going to be a trainwreck of a class.

 

That is what i was saying, needing a trait line (or 2) plus specific skills, other traits and utilities isnt how it should be. It would just move from Water being key to Air being key, but it would still need you to rely on specific skills, weapons and utilities to make it an effective condi removal trait. My point is, we need a way to remove condis reasonably well without needing to run OTHER specific traitlines, skills and utilities with it.

 

So you consider a traitline as "damage" only if it has unblockable burst skills? Wouldnt that mean that ele has NONE because dele doesnt have a single unblockable burst skill trait. The closest would be the Arcane skills but even though they deal crit damage, they arent unblockable - does Ele even have any damage abilities that are unblockable? I know we have some CC abilities that are unblockable but that is about it.

 

 

[MyPuppy.8970]

As far as i'm concerned, i do ok in unranked; had better success with Water/Arcana than Water/Air (better protection uptime) and hybrid damage setup. Still, I heal more than I do damage... Maybe I'll go progressively towards a more agressive build/gameplay when I get accustomed. I don't mind attunement ICD, but overall the mechanic feels unrewarding. I hope my keyboard will survive.

[Jski.6180]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> > @Jski.6180 said:

> > What are you talking about there not nearly enofe swiftness that ele can genrat to where you could only have the one trait to deal with all the condis in spvp and wvw. Must like you cant just have the water / reg version alone to deal with all the condis and offten you need to run both the clear and reg on other effects and clears from thoughts effects too. Tempest had to run reg on auras to make it worth it weaver would have to run swiftness on auras to make a blunt swiftness cleaing condis and we are talking about self only clears not group.

> >

> > Any way beyond that how can any one even call weaver a dmg line when there not even one unblockae burst skill. If there no anty dmg mitigation on a line it is NOT a dmg line.

> >

> > Who ever made this class knowing they been working on it for 4 years ish and this is what we have to show for it needs to realty answer for this. Look at other class elite spec and how many full condi clears they get the cd and the added effects weaver got the worst of it all from dmg condi clear heals unitlys stab boons the list goes on. This is a compel failure of a class and a lot of ppl should not be in a good places about this.

> >

> > I love the video too every one say it has its own rhythm nothing about how good it is or what effects it has they knew this was going to be a trainwreck of a class.

>

> That is what i was saying, needing a trait line (or 2) plus specific skills, other traits and utilities isnt how it should be. It would just move from Water being key to Air being key, but it would still need you to rely on specific skills, weapons and utilities to make it an effective condi removal trait. My point is, we need a way to remove condis reasonably well without needing to run OTHER specific traitlines, skills and utilities with it.

>

> So you consider a traitline as "damage" only if it has unblockable burst skills? Wouldnt that mean that ele has NONE because dele doesnt have a single unblockable burst skill trait. The closest would be the Arcane skills but even though they deal crit damage, they arent unblockable - does Ele even have any damage abilities that are unblockable? I know we have some CC abilities that are unblockable but that is about it.

>

>

 

Not even close becuse weaver it self has good swiftness out put its just self only as well as one condi clear by it self even on a low cd is not that effective in dealing with real condi builds. So getting a reg ever 1 is not that powerfull with the cleaing water. You need to get a reg and a clear at least such as water 5 from staff. This is why dimon skin will never work as a 1 sec cd for 1 condi per getting hit. Its all to easy to spam cover condis. So even with air line it would not be enofe becuse its still one condi per switfness. The water line has other condis clears that will stack up and burst clear from the burst condi.

 

YES if a traitline has no anty dmg migration like unblockable anty boons anty healing its not a real dmg line. Gw2 is a game of self support every class has it at some level some more then others but every class needs a line to deal with these self support ele is the one class in GW2 who has no counters to this self support. It was ok because these lines at its core and tempest where never seen as dmg lines. Weaver IS a dmg line but it lacks ever bit of tools that a dmg line needs to be viable in gw2. Raw dmg is meaningless and only works in pve (and often adding in unblockable effects boon strip even anty heals do not changes the balancing one bit in pve so these effects are pure pvp only). In pvp (the real gw2 i would suggest GW over all) raw dmg dose nothing.

 

As things stand weaver is a tank line pure and simple. We got a tempest .9 or a tank spec that can only support it self or a down grind of the tempest class.

 

Add on:

 

Look ele is the only class in the game who dose not have a good set of unblockables good condi dmg any anty boons as a class. It the only thing that is unique to the class sadly. For this ele gets nothing not one effect over other classes weaver was the line that should at some level have these effects and it did not get them. There is something profoundly wrong with Anet and there views on the ele class. Why would anyone be so "angry" at there own creation to do such bad things is beyond me but the dev NEED to be called into question about there hate of ele class.

 

@"Karl McLain.5604"

Why is the only significant thing about the ele class is what it lacks and not what it has? You need to self reflect on this question and try to respond to it.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Eles are cursed since launch for having twice as much skills than other profs. So halved damage/effect and double cd/cast time.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@"Jski.6180"

Weaver has decent Swiftness, again if you use the right accompanying traits and abilities. But is it madness to want Condition removal that isnt reliant so heavily on other traits or skills? The sword does have it on the Air auto attack, however this again means reliant on having the right build. If you are hybrid or full condi then you'll be removing condis which is nice but you would be doing no damage as your threat comes from fire and Earth.

 

Dagger has no access to Swiftness on the MH and only 1 skill on the OH on a 40second cool down. Scepter has NO access. Staff does have a 25second cool down Swiftness as well as a Lightening field so with the right finishers you could get some. Focus also has NO swiftness. You do get the Swiftness on Dual attack trait but again, this is more of a direct damage build trait but this then means if you're wanting to use them for the condi removal having to be reliant on the attunement cool downs and hoping the fight is going the right way to allow such constant attunement swapping.

 

Does that mean that all the other new trait lines cant be called damage lines if they dont come with unblockable damage?

[Jski.6180]

> @ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

> @"Jski.6180"

> Weaver has decent Swiftness, again if you use the right accompanying traits and abilities. But is it madness to want Condition removal that isnt reliant so heavily on other traits or skills? The sword does have it on the Air auto attack, however this again means reliant on having the right build. If you are hybrid or full condi then you'll be removing condis which is nice but you would be doing no damage as your threat comes from fire and Earth.

>

> Dagger has no access to Swiftness on the MH and only 1 skill on the OH on a 40second cool down. Scepter has NO access. Staff does have a 25second cool down Swiftness as well as a Lightening field so with the right finishers you could get some. Focus also has NO swiftness. You do get the Swiftness on Dual attack trait but again, this is more of a direct damage build trait but this then means if you're wanting to use them for the condi removal having to be reliant on the attunement cool downs and hoping the fight is going the right way to allow such constant attunement swapping.

>

> Does that mean that all the other new trait lines cant be called damage lines if they dont come with unblockable damage?

 

It gets most of its swiftness from burst skills if you build for it (all though it bets barrier on its burst skills build in but no benefit from having barrier or applying it and scorges gets condi clears from that!) your getting back to the problem of only 1 condi clear per effect its not enofe with out blut dmg -% condi dmg taken that ele as a class lacks. So even if it was swiftness clears and not the swiftness gives you reg something far weaker your not going to have the end all be on clear but it would be better then the worthlessness they added in.

 

If the weapons that the line is made for has no unblockable anty boons or anty healing or effects in one way or another it is not a dmg class less then a non dmg line. It dose not have to have all 3 but it needs 1 of the 3 at least to be called a dmg line.

 

> @MyPuppy.8970 said:

> Eles are cursed since launch for having twice as much skills than other profs. So halved damage/effect and double cd/cast time.

 

Eles are cursed by being defined as an balancing ideal by the lack of what they have not what they have.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@"Jski.6180" - What burst skills are you referring to out of curiosity?

I think my idea of making it so that when you have Barrier up that you take no damage from conditions would be good, kind of like an active version of the old Diamond Skin trait. It would still need our Barrier traits and skills to be buffed as they are still very much trash.

 

heres the part i was talking about Change Woven Strikes to Hexed Strikes:

Hexed Strikes: You take reduced damage from Conditions when you have barrier active. Remove 1 condition every 1/2second when you have Barrier active.

 

I would say making it an active version of the old Diamond Skin would be good. So you become immune to conditions while you have Barrier up and you remove condis with it being active. I think the reason this would be balanced is because we have really low access to Barrier unlike say Scourge. Along with this, i would buff Elemental Refreshment to make it at least 1k base and maybe improve the scaling for it because Ele has VERY low access to it and its meant to be pretty much our defense when in melee.