Scourge Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[MethaneGas.8357]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @MethaneGas.8357 said:

> > Did anyone notice... there was no change... in.... Dhuumfire? >: )

> > Who knows, maybe they stealth nerfed it... but if Dhuumfire stays the same as how it was in beta, I think Scourge will still be kitten in sPvP.

> >

>

> They only listed Scourge-specific changes. Anything relating to Reaper or core traitlines/skills (including Dhuumfire) we don't learn about until tomorrow.

 

Hmm... true.... damn. I guess we have to hold our breath and see.

 

[Syryn.7591]

For the Trail of Anguish change is this just one stack of stab or 5? Does it pulse? Etc?

[mortrialus.3062]

I don't main necro. It's not even in my top 4 played classes, but I was really hoping for Scourge to be able to at least comfortably fill the open 2 DPS slots in raids. The excuse always given for why necromancers are balanced to have the lowest dps in the game is that so much of their power budget when it comes to class balance is spent defensively in Death Shroud and Reaper Shroud (Ignoring that it doesn't have Aegis, Blocks, Evades, or Invulns which are far more meaningful defensive powers in all game modes anyway).

 

Scourge doesn't have a proper shroud. It's no where near the level of raw damage sponge as core necro and Reaper. By design it should absolutely be a top tier PVE DPS spec.

[maelstrom.6492]

> @Syryn.7591 said:

> For the Trail of Anguish change is this just one stack of stab or 5? Does it pulse? Etc?

 

They didn't say specifically, but my guess is it's like Foot in the Grave, a single stack for 3s.

[FaboBabo.3581]

wth... are peoply complaining that scourge can "only" hit 12 Targets at once? Guys d'you know there are classes which can only hit 5 targets at once?

Asking for 20 is literally insane. Sure it has some sort of ramp up, but cmon, other guys in ur raid need some work too dont they? Nerfing barrier was needed, can remember "several perma barrier i won't die even if u hit me with 10 man" - scourges...

[Ara.4569]

Necro is a running gag. Designers can't stop laughing every time they work on it. I'm sure they don't mean harm, they just want to relax and have fun at work.

[Phroman.1793]

I don't know what to do anymore, all I want is to enjoy all the content provided on my favorite class, but I'm exhausted. It's an abusive relationship at this point and I need out.

[Lily.1935]

I'm having a feeling Anet took my "Necromancer Depth" post and corrupted it a bit. Even though I explicitly said multiple times that the scourge was already a high skill high reward elite spec already. So asking for more skill from the players? Eh... Fine, I guess but you shouldn't punish PvE players. This change seems fine from a WvW perspective, and maybe a PvP one. At least pertaining to the nerfs. I still think Mystic snake is too weak even with that. I'd rather them go in the direction of a heavy barrier skill than more condi damage, but that's just me. As it stands now I still will heavily favor Corrosive poison cloud over Mystic snakes.

 

But core necromancer and Reaper are the ones with skilled play problems, not Scourge.

[Kam.4092]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> wth... are peoply complaining that scourge can "only" hit 12 Targets at once? Guys d'you know there are classes which can only hit 5 targets at once?

> Asking for 20 is literally insane. Sure it has some sort of ramp up, but cmon, other guys in ur raid need some work too dont they? Nerfing barrier was needed, can remember "several perma barrier i won't die even if u hit me with 10 man" - scourges...

 

I'm upset at the Shade Duration nerf.

[Ziooo.8932]

We are shit since release, and the only unwanted class in dungeons, fractals and raids. I can't help but wonder how the hell im still not used to that after 5 long years... at least this game has 8 classes in total amirite? ;)

[Kam.4092]

> @Ziooo.8932 said:

> We are kitten since release, and the only unwanted class in dungeons, fractals and raids. I can't help but wonder how the kitten im still not used to that after 5 long years... at least this game has 8 classes in total amirite? ;)

 

It's just like in high school for me. I get picked on for being different.

[Unknown.3976]

#Make Scourge Great AGain

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @Eburte.9813 said:

> Welp, looks like it's time to get a new main. I've heard Anet likes Elementalist, might try one of those.

 

I wouldn't bother, according to the eles , ANet hates them too. Actually, according to the forums, ANet hates every class.

[Yuyuske.7182]

> @"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:

> > @Eburte.9813 said:

> > Welp, looks like it's time to get a new main. I've heard Anet likes Elementalist, might try one of those.

>

> I wouldn't bother, according to the eles , ANet hates them too. Actually, according to the forums, ANet hates every class.

 

I dunno, the Firebrands seem pretty hyped.

[Corthyll.7635]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> wth... are peoply complaining that scourge can "only" hit 12 Targets at once? Guys d'you know there are classes which can only hit 5 targets at once?

> Asking for 20 is literally insane. Sure it has some sort of ramp up, but cmon, other guys in ur raid need some work too dont they? Nerfing barrier was needed, can remember "several perma barrier i won't die even if u hit me with 10 man" - scourges...

 

this

[Kam.4092]

> @Corthyll.7635 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > wth... are peoply complaining that scourge can "only" hit 12 Targets at once? Guys d'you know there are classes which can only hit 5 targets at once?

> > Asking for 20 is literally insane. Sure it has some sort of ramp up, but cmon, other guys in ur raid need some work too dont they? Nerfing barrier was needed, can remember "several perma barrier i won't die even if u hit me with 10 man" - scourges...

>

> this

 

So I guess you looked past the Life Force cost of Shade skills being increased, and the time a Shade is up being decreased.

 

Did you just click on the last page, and not read replies?

[Vorgryn.9145]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> wth... are peoply complaining that scourge can "only" hit 12 Targets at once? Guys d'you know there are classes which can only hit 5 targets at once?

> Asking for 20 is literally insane. Sure it has some sort of ramp up, but cmon, other guys in ur raid need some work too dont they? Nerfing barrier was needed, can remember "several perma barrier i won't die even if u hit me with 10 man" - scourges...

 

You're putting yourself in the WvW boat, and nobody is saying that the nerf shouldn't have been in WvW. The problem is that for PvE players, where encounters last significantly longer, the lower duration and long charge time means that at steady state you'll have usually one, maybe two, sh@des out at a time. At that point the minors are weak(er) and you can't use the sh@de skills to cover everyone in a raid with barriers, etc. Pretty much everyone who is irritated about that portion of the nerf are suggesting a WvW/PvE split.

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Vorgryn.9145 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > wth... are peoply complaining that scourge can "only" hit 12 Targets at once? Guys d'you know there are classes which can only hit 5 targets at once?

> > Asking for 20 is literally insane. Sure it has some sort of ramp up, but cmon, other guys in ur raid need some work too dont they? Nerfing barrier was needed, can remember "several perma barrier i won't die even if u hit me with 10 man" - scourges...

>

> You're putting yourself in the WvW boat, and nobody is saying that the nerf shouldn't have been in WvW. The problem is that for PvE players, where encounters last significantly longer, the lower duration and long charge time means that at steady state you'll have usually one, maybe two, sh@des out at a time. At that point the minors are weak(er) and you can't use the sh@de skills to cover everyone in a raid with barriers, etc. Pretty much everyone who is irritated about that portion of the nerf are suggesting a WvW/PvE split.

 

I get the point about dealing damage in PvE ; ok. But really ; "and you can't use the sh@de skills to cover everyone in a raid with barriers"

No class should be allowed to "buff" 10 players at the same time. There is a reason we usually got 2 of every buffclass in Raids. Are u sad cause scourge won't break this ? With the old duration of 25 seconds scourge wasn't able to mantain three shards in long turn fights, so in fact not a lot is changing here.

 

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Kam.4092 said:

> > @Corthyll.7635 said:

> > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > wth... are peoply complaining that scourge can "only" hit 12 Targets at once? Guys d'you know there are classes which can only hit 5 targets at once?

> > > Asking for 20 is literally insane. Sure it has some sort of ramp up, but cmon, other guys in ur raid need some work too dont they? Nerfing barrier was needed, can remember "several perma barrier i won't die even if u hit me with 10 man" - scourges...

> >

> > this

>

> So I guess you looked past the Life Force cost of Shade skills being increased, and the time a Shade is up being decreased.

>

> Did you just click on the last page, and not read replies?

 

"Life force costs for Scourge abilities have always been a percentage of your BASE vitality (pre-equipment). Which means that packing on more vitality lets you cast more skills and regain larger absolute values when things die or you use life force generating abilities since you gain life force as a percentage of MAX."

Yeah nothing to add here , I read some replies (:

[Vorgryn.9145]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @Vorgryn.9145 said:

> > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > wth... are peoply complaining that scourge can "only" hit 12 Targets at once? Guys d'you know there are classes which can only hit 5 targets at once?

> > > Asking for 20 is literally insane. Sure it has some sort of ramp up, but cmon, other guys in ur raid need some work too dont they? Nerfing barrier was needed, can remember "several perma barrier i won't die even if u hit me with 10 man" - scourges...

> >

> > You're putting yourself in the WvW boat, and nobody is saying that the nerf shouldn't have been in WvW. The problem is that for PvE players, where encounters last significantly longer, the lower duration and long charge time means that at steady state you'll have usually one, maybe two, sh@des out at a time. At that point the minors are weak(er) and you can't use the sh@de skills to cover everyone in a raid with barriers, etc. Pretty much everyone who is irritated about that portion of the nerf are suggesting a WvW/PvE split.

>

> I get the point about dealing damage in PvE ; ok. But really ; "and you can't use the sh@de skills to cover everyone in a raid with barriers"

> No class should be allowed to "buff" 10 players at the same time. There is a reason we usually got 2 of every buffclass in Raids. Are u sad cause scourge won't break this ? With the old duration of 25 seconds scourge wasn't able to mantain three shards in long turn fights, so in fact not a lot is changing here.

>

 

Warrior Banners, Mesmer Timewarp, and others do effect 10 players with much larger radii than our shroud skills, which is partly why they're attractive to raid groups.

 

The change from 25-20 reduces your two shade up-time by half, so you're shifting from mostly having two shades to mostly having one, so I wouldn't brush it off quite so easily.

[Crinn.7864]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> "Life force costs for Scourge abilities have always been a percentage of your BASE vitality (pre-equipment). Which means that packing on more vitality lets you cast more skills and regain larger absolute values when things die or you use life force generating abilities since you gain life force as a percentage of MAX."

> Yeah nothing to add here , I read some replies (:

Which pigeonholes the entire class into stacking vitality, despite the fact that nothing about scourge actually synergizes with vitality.

 

I mean honestly Rabid would be the best amulet for scourge in sPvP, except oh right we have to stack vitality.

 

And then there is PvE, where stacking vitality will just hurt your DPS more than just not have life force will.

 

[vicious.5683]

> @Lily.1935 said:

> I'm having a feeling Anet took my "Necromancer Depth" post and corrupted it a bit. Even though I explicitly said multiple times that the scourge was already a high skill high reward elite spec already. So asking for more skill from the players? Eh... Fine, I guess but you shouldn't punish PvE players. This change seems fine from a WvW perspective, and maybe a PvP one. At least pertaining to the nerfs. I still think Mystic snake is too weak even with that. I'd rather them go in the direction of a heavy barrier skill than more condi damage, but that's just me. As it stands now I still will heavily favor Corrosive poison cloud over Mystic snakes.

>

> But core necromancer and Reaper are the ones with skilled play problems, not Scourge.

 

So, you are saying those nerfs are your fault. Geez, thx man. You are really helpful.

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Vorgryn.9145 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > @Vorgryn.9145 said:

> > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > > wth... are peoply complaining that scourge can "only" hit 12 Targets at once? Guys d'you know there are classes which can only hit 5 targets at once?

> > > > Asking for 20 is literally insane. Sure it has some sort of ramp up, but cmon, other guys in ur raid need some work too dont they? Nerfing barrier was needed, can remember "several perma barrier i won't die even if u hit me with 10 man" - scourges...

> > >

> > > You're putting yourself in the WvW boat, and nobody is saying that the nerf shouldn't have been in WvW. The problem is that for PvE players, where encounters last significantly longer, the lower duration and long charge time means that at steady state you'll have usually one, maybe two, sh@des out at a time. At that point the minors are weak(er) and you can't use the sh@de skills to cover everyone in a raid with barriers, etc. Pretty much everyone who is irritated about that portion of the nerf are suggesting a WvW/PvE split.

> >

> > I get the point about dealing damage in PvE ; ok. But really ; "and you can't use the sh@de skills to cover everyone in a raid with barriers"

> > No class should be allowed to "buff" 10 players at the same time. There is a reason we usually got 2 of every buffclass in Raids. Are u sad cause scourge won't break this ? With the old duration of 25 seconds scourge wasn't able to mantain three shards in long turn fights, so in fact not a lot is changing here.

> >

>

> Warrior Banners, Mesmer Timewarp, and others do effect 10 players with much larger radii than our shroud skills, which is partly why they're attractive to raid groups.

>

> The change from 25-20 reduces your two shade up-time by half, so you're shifting from mostly having two kitten to mostly having one, so I wouldn't brush it off quite so easily.

 

u have 33% double shard uptime in a long term fight when beeing alone, which is argueable bad. spawn 1 - spawn second after 15 seconds , 5 second double time, 10 second solo time , 5 second double time ...etc

Thanks to chrono and revs, ur sand shards recharge in 10 seconds and u got 100% 2 shards uptime. , spawn 1 , spawn another after 10 seconds , 10 second double time , spawn one as ur first one runs out.

Yeah warrior banners and mesmer Timewarp effect 10 PLayers. Timewarp is on a fairly long cooldown, while banners have static stat boosts, which u cannot stack on each other. You can stack barrier making doding a dps loss, cause u dont need to dodge when u have 50k health.

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > "Life force costs for Scourge abilities have always been a percentage of your BASE vitality (pre-equipment). Which means that packing on more vitality lets you cast more skills and regain larger absolute values when things die or you use life force generating abilities since you gain life force as a percentage of MAX."

> > Yeah nothing to add here , I read some replies (:

> Which pigeonholes the entire class into stacking vitality, despite the fact that nothing about scourge actually synergizes with vitality.

>

> I mean honestly Rabid would be the best amulet for scourge in sPvP, except oh right we have to stack vitality.

>

> And then there is PvE, where stacking vitality will just hurt your DPS more than just not have life force will.

>

 

Well ; full damage = burstbuild, should not be able to throw out barriers and CC like it's christmas

More vitality = sustained build , is allowed to pull out barriers and CC like it's christmas.

 

Out of the PvP / WvW perspective.

In Pve i'd suggest there are enough dying ads to give u the life force u need for spamming off cooldown...

 

[Vorgryn.9145]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > @Vorgryn.9145 said:

> > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > > @Vorgryn.9145 said:

> > > > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > > > wth... are peoply complaining that scourge can "only" hit 12 Targets at once? Guys d'you know there are classes which can only hit 5 targets at once?

> > > > > Asking for 20 is literally insane. Sure it has some sort of ramp up, but cmon, other guys in ur raid need some work too dont they? Nerfing barrier was needed, can remember "several perma barrier i won't die even if u hit me with 10 man" - scourges...

> > > >

> > > > You're putting yourself in the WvW boat, and nobody is saying that the nerf shouldn't have been in WvW. The problem is that for PvE players, where encounters last significantly longer, the lower duration and long charge time means that at steady state you'll have usually one, maybe two, sh@des out at a time. At that point the minors are weak(er) and you can't use the sh@de skills to cover everyone in a raid with barriers, etc. Pretty much everyone who is irritated about that portion of the nerf are suggesting a WvW/PvE split.

> > >

> > > I get the point about dealing damage in PvE ; ok. But really ; "and you can't use the sh@de skills to cover everyone in a raid with barriers"

> > > No class should be allowed to "buff" 10 players at the same time. There is a reason we usually got 2 of every buffclass in Raids. Are u sad cause scourge won't break this ? With the old duration of 25 seconds scourge wasn't able to mantain three shards in long turn fights, so in fact not a lot is changing here.

> > >

> >

> > Warrior Banners, Mesmer Timewarp, and others do effect 10 players with much larger radii than our shroud skills, which is partly why they're attractive to raid groups.

> >

> > The change from 25-20 reduces your two shade up-time by half, so you're shifting from mostly having two kitten to mostly having one, so I wouldn't brush it off quite so easily.

>

> u have 33% double shard uptime in a long term fight when beeing alone, which is argueable bad. spawn 1 - spawn second after 15 seconds , 5 second double time, 10 second solo time , 5 second double time ...etc

> Thanks to chrono and revs, ur sand shards recharge in 10 seconds and u got 100% 2 shards uptime. , spawn 1 , spawn another after 10 seconds , 10 second double time , spawn one as ur first one runs out.

> Yeah warrior banners and mesmer Timewarp effect 10 PLayers. Timewarp is on a fairly long cooldown, while banners have static stat boosts, which u cannot stack on each other. You can stack barrier making doding a dps loss, cause u dont need to dodge when u have 50k health.

 

So my ability to support a raid depends on the presence of two other classes? And even in this ideal scenario you've crafted I still wouldn't be able to have three sh@des out? Yeah... super great, other players will totally want to bring along on raids :|

 

And where the heck are you getting this perma-barrier/50K health idea from? With barriers disintegrating so quickly after applying it seems like you'll have to pop the skill at just the right moment to actually make a difference. Was this some reasonable build that would actually have some amount of DPS or some specialized build to make some youtube video...?