Lily.1935

> @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > The GW1 necro design could be interesting for the new elite spec. A spec that sacrifices health for big impacts. It could work, because such a mechanic would weaken the natural tankiness of necro (shroud and high health pool) to end up as a real glass canon as it is always at low health after big hits. Imagine a spec that uses skills that work like signet of undeath: can kill you when used in the wrong moment, but have extremely game changing effects. > > > > > > I can imagine it and I doubt it would have any kind of viability in GW2. A GW1's necromancer sacrificing health mainly worked because of 3 things: > > > - You sacrificed a %age of health > > > - You could reduce your base health to absurdly low level (55hp through gear and up to 22 HP throught -60% death penalty) > > > - Regen skills could bring back low HP base character to full almost instantly. > > > > > > Without taking advantage of the synergy of those 3 points health sacrifice was just barely usable, very far from being "viable". In a game like GW2 with comparatively very large health pool, a core necromancer toolkit totally inadapted and an absolute hate of the community for any skill effect that would be "game changing", it's pretty much impossible to have actual health sacrifice being viable. > > > > Except the health sacrifice builds in GW1 didn't frequently drop their health below the 500 average. 55 didn't take health sacrifice either, at least not any build I've seen. The top build that used it would frequently sacrifice enough to offset the damage with one or 2 heals. The orders necromancer being an old and now unviable one. The current most potent build being the Blood is power Restoration necromancer. > > > > As to your points necromancer has more than enough sustain to maintain their health into overflow even. We have Parasitic contagion, blood magic as well as the dagger along with skills that just give us large chunks of life like locus signet and blood fiend. Something you might not be aware of because its only revealed through a lot of gameplay with scourge as either a healer or condi in raids or strikes, but Signet of Undeath's cost can be entirely payed for with barrier. So any new health sacrifice skill would follow those same rules. Barrier would be taken first before health is dipped into. > > > > Looking at necromancer's sustain we have much better options than we did in GW1, we have much stronger life stealing and life gain. I was doing some experiments a while back with Blood bank and parasitic contagion, and my health seldom dropped below full. A new spec that sacrifices lots of health would likely utility one or both of these traits to create quite the the menace on the Battlefield. Timing when their burst will occur which would offer a lot of unique play and counter play situations when fighting them. > > > > This also does give us a good idea as to how they would look in raids, being well supported by healing and benefiting from over healing as they could bank that extra heal as the cost for their utility or we could see a scourge + new necromancer partnerships as an alternative to some of the current meta methods. Although I personally would be alright with a new elite spec building barrier on allies which could allow for different party utility. > > > > Health sacrifice would be good for the necromancer. In fact it already has been quite good for them now with just one skill. And there is the offset to the sacrifice you're looking for as well as the high risk I'm looking for. It just needs the power behind it to be worth that extreme risk. > > So are you talking about the equivalent of eq nec? which sacrifices its own mana and health and drains it from enemies again and uses skills to recover mana? > > In eq nec were mana healers for other classes in cases of needing to use tons of mana to recover for instance while fighting bosses and they could sacrifice their own health recover. > > was it like that in gw1? Yes, that was one function the necromancer did for their party. They would recover mana, which is the BiP we were talkinga bout. https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Build:N/Rt_Blood_is_Power_Healer_Hero the build is there. This wasn't the only type of build necromancer's used health sacrifice for since Minion masters and Party support necromancers would frequently use other skills which cost a large bit of life. Health sacrifice wasn't uncommon and used as a means to either make the skill used rather cheap to cast or be quite powerful in its effect. Since GW2 doesn't have a real energy system it would mean that self sacrifice skills would have a strong impact. Necromancers didn't just have % sacrifice in GW1 either, but life loss skills which I'd personally count as health sacrifice since the end result was the same.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > Except the health sacrifice builds in GW1 didn't frequently drop their health below the 500 average. 55 didn't take health sacrifice either, at least not any build I've seen. The top build that used it would frequently sacrifice enough to offset the damage with one or 2 heals. The orders necromancer being an old and now unviable one. The current most potent build being the Blood is power Restoration necromancer. > > I'm sorry, but: "What a joke!" > 55HP (22HP) bip necromancer was (and, outside special gimmicky group comp, probably still is) a corner stone of Urgoz's run (along with _edge of extinction_ rangers). If you've never seen one, I can garantie you that it take sacrificing it's health way better than anything with 500 health point. For the healer who have the back of a low health necromancer it's both a breeze (because you don't need much to keep it alive) and a boon (because it does it's job at a crazy rate). > > Too much HP for health sacrifice build just wasn't viable in GW. I don't even know why you'd think otherwise, I mean you're basicaly suggesting that to play sacrifice build that wouldn't use gear/runes to increase it's potency. Along with the increased need for heal due to high health that's just piling handicaps over handicaps. N/Rt builds might be potent for AIs but that's all. It's merely useful to have on a hero when you play alone with a balanced team of heroes. For a player, playing with other players, that can afford to use runes and min-max there is no way you'd play at an average of 500 health point. Would you mind linking me those builds? Because what I'm seeing when I search these builds is a 500 average. Not a 55. But Urgos is unfamiliar to me, so I'd be happy to see it.

> @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > The GW1 necro design could be interesting for the new elite spec. A spec that sacrifices health for big impacts. It could work, because such a mechanic would weaken the natural tankiness of necro (shroud and high health pool) to end up as a real glass canon as it is always at low health after big hits. Imagine a spec that uses skills that work like signet of undeath: can kill you when used in the wrong moment, but have extremely game changing effects. > > > > I can imagine it and I doubt it would have any kind of viability in GW2. A GW1's necromancer sacrificing health mainly worked because of 3 things: > > - You sacrificed a %age of health > > - You could reduce your base health to absurdly low level (55hp through gear and up to 22 HP throught -60% death penalty) > > - Regen skills could bring back low HP base character to full almost instantly. > > > > Without taking advantage of the synergy of those 3 points health sacrifice was just barely usable, very far from being "viable". In a game like GW2 with comparatively very large health pool, a core necromancer toolkit totally inadapted and an absolute hate of the community for any skill effect that would be "game changing", it's pretty much impossible to have actual health sacrifice being viable. > You are just lacking creativity. For example you could modify the health sacrificing. The 3 GM traits for the spec could be: > - "when sacrificing health, then gain an equal amount of barrier" > - "gain evasion for 1s after sacrificing health" > - "sacrificing health grants superspeed for 3 seconds" > > There are tons of possibilities to compensate a sacrifice mechanic. > > Signet of Undeath is a "game changing" skill. I am turning team fight losses into victories every day with that single signet. And it is not overpowered because a smart enemy has the chance to focus and kill me when I use it. You sacrifice the health before you finish the cast - this is what balances it. > > If ANet would introduce the reaper spec with its intended design (slow horror movie monster with melee shroud) today with all the mobility in the game, I bet you would say "what a garbage, such a spec is not viable". And reaper is yet the strongest necro spec besides the support aspect of scourge. > We don't need to gain anything from sacrificing health as a bonus. I feel the skill should be strong enough on it's own that its worth taking that risk like SoU is now. We also have parasitic contagion and blood bank now to offset the cost. And a partnered healer with blood bank or a scourge would make it so we don't have to dip into our own health because barrier does pay for some of, or all, of the cost of health sacrifice skills.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > The GW1 necro design could be interesting for the new elite spec. A spec that sacrifices health for big impacts. It could work, because such a mechanic would weaken the natural tankiness of necro (shroud and high health pool) to end up as a real glass canon as it is always at low health after big hits. Imagine a spec that uses skills that work like signet of undeath: can kill you when used in the wrong moment, but have extremely game changing effects. > > I can imagine it and I doubt it would have any kind of viability in GW2. A GW1's necromancer sacrificing health mainly worked because of 3 things: > - You sacrificed a %age of health > - You could reduce your base health to absurdly low level (55hp through gear and up to 22 HP throught -60% death penalty) > - Regen skills could bring back low HP base character to full almost instantly. > > Without taking advantage of the synergy of those 3 points health sacrifice was just barely usable, very far from being "viable". In a game like GW2 with comparatively very large health pool, a core necromancer toolkit totally inadapted and an absolute hate of the community for any skill effect that would be "game changing", it's pretty much impossible to have actual health sacrifice being viable. Except the health sacrifice builds in GW1 didn't frequently drop their health below the 500 average. 55 didn't take health sacrifice either, at least not any build I've seen. The top build that used it would frequently sacrifice enough to offset the damage with one or 2 heals. The orders necromancer being an old and now unviable one. The current most potent build being the Blood is power Restoration necromancer. As to your points necromancer has more than enough sustain to maintain their health into overflow even. We have Parasitic contagion, blood magic as well as the dagger along with skills that just give us large chunks of life like locus signet and blood fiend. Something you might not be aware of because its only revealed through a lot of gameplay with scourge as either a healer or condi in raids or strikes, but Signet of Undeath's cost can be entirely payed for with barrier. So any new health sacrifice skill would follow those same rules. Barrier would be taken first before health is dipped into. Looking at necromancer's sustain we have much better options than we did in GW1, we have much stronger life stealing and life gain. I was doing some experiments a while back with Blood bank and parasitic contagion, and my health seldom dropped below full. A new spec that sacrifices lots of health would likely utility one or both of these traits to create quite the the menace on the Battlefield. Timing when their burst will occur which would offer a lot of unique play and counter play situations when fighting them. This also does give us a good idea as to how they would look in raids, being well supported by healing and benefiting from over healing as they could bank that extra heal as the cost for their utility or we could see a scourge + new necromancer partnerships as an alternative to some of the current meta methods. Although I personally would be alright with a new elite spec building barrier on allies which could allow for different party utility. Health sacrifice would be good for the necromancer. In fact it already has been quite good for them now with just one skill. And there is the offset to the sacrifice you're looking for as well as the high risk I'm looking for. It just needs the power behind it to be worth that extreme risk.

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > Other than a main hand weapon that's just reaper. > Nothing in Reaper's kit features Life Stealing. > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_stealing > > And Reaper isn't really designed as a Bruiser. > It's supposed to be the DPS spec. > > > What we need is glasscannon support+damage > Reaper already fills the support niche and Scourge is support with condition damage. > That means, both things you think are needed already have their specializations. > Unless Arenanet introduces a terrible -700 Vitality "trade off", a glass cannon builds aren't really possible with Necromancer's design. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Augury_of_Death Reaper is anything but a glasscannon. it is one of the most bulky DPS in the game, which is what a bruiser is. a Bulky DPS. A glasscannon is something that takes hits hard, really hard. The reaper can literally walk through most AOE without issue. They have life steal with Augury of death, lots of healing through Soul Eater and Blighter's Boon. Not just that they have damage reduction through "Rise!" and Infusing Terror. They used to have more through cold shoulder but that was changed to DPS boost instead of damage reduction. BEYOND JUST THAT! we also have Relentless Pursuit which reduces debilitating conditions so the reaper can keep trucking forward. They are EXTREMELY tough! And they have Decimate Defenses allowing them to build further into their bulk without sacrificing much of their DPS unilke most other Classes. To say they are a glasscannon is extremely wrong. If you want to see a glasscannon, look at weaver, tempest, deadeye, and holosmith especially. THOSE are glasscannons. They're vulnerable most the time and in the case of holo and deadeye they create more vulnerabilities for higher DPS. Reaper does not create vulnerabilities in itself for higher DPS. It builds its DPS into its BULK! As for "Glasscannon aren't possible in necromancer design", Well that's where you're wrong, Kiddo. If we look to other examples of Necromancer's in other games and MMOs, a glasscannon Necromancer usually sacrifices health for great power. We already have something like this. Holosmith photon forge, so that's not out of the question. Take a look at the Diablo 3 Blood lance build or the blood nova build. Both of those are glasscannon builds that use life sacrifice to hit extremely hard. But it goes beyond just that since in GW1 we had multiple glasscannon builds, and glasscannon support especially. The Orders necromancer would sacrifice quite a bit of its own health to buff ally DPS quite a bit. We also had the Minion master which would cause health lose every time they used a skill to have extremely buff minions. We also have the Melee scythe/dagger's necromancer build which burns through most of its health for massive aoe damage, similar to blood nova and extremely difficult to use. Even further than that we have the most popular healer in GW1 at the moment the Blood is power necromancer which sacrifices 33% of their own health to hyper boost ally's energy regeneration. Glasscannon isn't just in the necromancer's design. Its core to the very makeup of what a necromancer SHOULD BE!

> @"Fueki.4753" said: > I'd like Necromancer to get a main hand weapon. > And the elite specialization should be a bruiser that prominently features Life Steal. > Other than a main hand weapon that's just reaper. What we need is glasscannon support+damage

> @"Mungo Zen.9364" said: > So you do enjoy experimenting with builds? If you do then why use the same build for 4 years or complain about a stale format? Efficiency, investment and utility is why. There are a lot of builds with nagging issues such as turrets engineer in PvE which doesn't provide the punch needed in various situations, requires a high investment and has minimal utility. And this is a major problem across all non-meta builds, although Turrets are one of the more egregious. When I'm feeling spicy I do run Condi reaper because it is about where I'd like most builds to be in Open world at least. However its not entirely a new build or all that unique when comparing it to power reaper. Its fairly similar in play pattern and with minor differences. You also can't make someone enjoy something they don't enjoy. For example I don't like the core gameplay loop of warrior and variation to a warrior isn't going to do it for me pretty much regardless of what arena net comes out with. But to be real. I'm not expecting changes until after EoD comes out which is kinda why this thread went silent for so long. And I know there are people who will say "Anything is viable in open world" But I'll ask you to take a full turret build into drizzlewood coast or Dragon's stand and try and tell me its even close to condi reaper in power. Condi reaper isn't viable for raids, let that be clear as raids isn't the only concern I have. Its a part of it, yes, but not the only one.

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > Not looking good for use to get another update this month but i guess the day is not over. Today would be the preview. > > if they're even doing previews anymore, sure would be nice to get some kind of communication from the balance department that's said nothing for 6 months I wouldn't expect any sort of balance until we get much closer to the release of End of Dragons.

It would be great to have multiple head pieces able to combine with specific others. Like masks and hats as well as glasses. I'd also like war paint, masks unique eye changing head pieces and horns. For me, having my Horns with glasses are what I'd like. But yeah, great idea. More people need to respond to ideas they like.

> @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > Hopefully some day they fix this necro issue, since its a specific issue to do with mechanics which nerf necromancers suffer efficiency wise compared to other classes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except this isn't an issue in PVE because the game isn't designed around needing the highest efficiency builds to be successful. Hopefully, Anet continue to ignore these constant requests to 'fix' issues that would result in the content dictating what builds are needed, resulting in fewer people being able to play the builds they want. > > > > > > > > > > > > It becomes a issue if that extra damage delays the death of a raid boss and gives it more time to use techs. > > > > > > > > > > Again, that's not an issue. You can be successful if that happens. In fact, the game is DESIGNED to allow that 'delay' so people can choose to play how they want. > > > > > > > > It is though because it gives a reason for folks to pass over necro. > > > > > > That just depends on how you play and who you play with. In otherwords ... it's an issue you encounter because of choices _you_ make. It's not an issue that requires Anet to solve with game changes because the game design already addresses that issue. The game is designed so that people can choose to play how they want and be successful. > > > > Lol, is there any game (especially MMORPG's) out there that doesnt give you that choice? I mean, I'd love to see an MMORPG that tells you on the "create your character screen", please don't pick this class, you wont be able to complete the game with it ... > > > > Really, your arguments are completely moot! They're all just givens and don't contribute to _any_ game discussion, really! > > This is why you need proper balance in pve. > > Even if you can do content with lower DPS, if you give foilks a reason to pass you on being brought to a group then there is a good chance they will becasue something is better. A lot of people are obsessed with numbers and statistics as what gets the best results. If its a small numeral difference and your at the bottom its not so bad, but if its quite noticeable between classes, then it shows there is a problem. Necromancer is particularly problematic, because it has tools that don't fit pve well and are better suited for PVP. Some of its CC have minimal effect and although boon corrupt works in fractals at higher tiers, lower tier fractals enemies have minimal buffs and minimal amount of condis to corrupt, and barrier i heard fits more practice groups for raids or casual runs with bad players. I haven't seen these kind of severe limitations on other classes, and perhaps i'm wrong since i'm not able to play scourge, i do have experience with core and reaper, as i play a lot of those. > > These things i said ring true, because In the past of GW and recently, we had classes who's support was underwhelming and others that were outright required for raid( mesmer and guardians) This proves it was poorly adjusted. I'm not saying mesmers and guardians shouldn't be good at what they do, but there should be possibility of at least some options of others who can fill in said role. I do have quite a bit of experience with scourge and it is a difficult elite spec to use as a Dps. It's not difficult to survive on which I would consider that something else. As it is now I'd sacrifice all access to barrier on condi DPS scourge, having no defense what so ever to be comparable in damage to something like condi firebrand who keeps all their defensive utility and support while out DPSing us. I'd take that trade because at least then I could feel like I'm really pushing the limits of what the elite spec has offered me. At the moment I'm hitting a glass ceiling to what the elite spec can do. And although I'm quite good on necromancer and reaper, it's a far cry from optimal and I feel a bit guilty for not taking something much stronger even though scourge is what I really enjoy. I'm fortunate that my guild allows me to run scourge, and I've attempted to play other classes and specs though none as as enjoyable to me which makes it tough to get into them. Engineer being my off day choice since I find condi holo fun when I don't want to plan out every skill use on an internal mental timer. To your point. Each DPS shouldn't be 40% difference from each other. That's insane. There can be a difference in potency but at that high it does create a very negative experience and prevents new people from entering the raiding format.

Yes but not the first option. Here's my take. More options in adept master and grandmaster would be great with options that offer a real diversity of build choices. Traits were supposed to replace the complexity of gw1's skill system, which it never did. Not saying it has to or should, but offering more variety would spice up a lot of old builds and could even open up more core class options.

Engineer: Probably my number 2 class after necromancer. I love the chaotic nature of their kits and their condi application as well as their healing builds. It was close to replacing necromancer as my main at one point. And the favorite weapon has to be pistol pistol. Power engi doesn't quite do it for me, although sword is kinda fun. Guardian: Guardian is a cleric by another name. They are versatile like a cleric in D&D offering buffs, healing and heavy damage. They're a lot of fun with their virtues and party support along with their almost burning hands type attacks from the firebrand's tombs. Favorite weapon on them has to be Sword and shield, although I use axe and shield a bit more since I prefer burn guard to power dragonhunter. For me, its like playing a light domain cleric with firebrand. Which I just love. Revenant: Revenant has the themes and mechanics where it COULD surpass even necromancer as a main but its also its mechanic that holds it very far back. I love the energy mechanic but the legend swapping is a bit more of a flow breaker than anything. And their utility, which they were advertised as being all about, is the absolute most limited of any class without question leaving them in 4th and sometimes 5th for me. There lack of weapons also holds them back. Other than that, I do love the Revenant and its my martial class of choice most of the time. I love their mace and axe weapons and I would gladly steal the mace from them for necromancer if given the chance. Mallyx is also extremely fun for me and even their swords. Revenant has a lot of cool utility and offers a lot of mobility in combat making them the most agile heavy class. Which I quite enjoy. It takes a lot of elements from assassin from GW1 that I enjoyed and refines them in a way I can get behind. Flaws with necromancer: The necromancer as a class is weird. Its mechanically very similar to the Druid from Dungeons and dragons, which is a great class but its not quite like the necromancer I hoped for when starting GW2. Necromancer in GW1 was the most fragile class as well as one of the primary support classes for groups, even if it didn't seem like it played like it. So I've always seen them as a support class and coming over to GW2 where they have a lot of support but that support is frequently underwhelming along with them being one of the bulkiest classes around I've always had an unsolvable conflict with the class. Although I like druids and I love control since Mesmer was my second favorite class in GW1 it has stuck with me because it still fills a lot of roles I really enjoyed from the first game. Those roles being Dervish, Ritualist and Mesmer. Mesmer was far more controlling than supporting in GW1 and I'll argue that Necromancer is the stronger control class in GW2.

> @"Aplethoraof.2643" said: > Not sure if you know, but shoulder and head armour pieces already exist. This request is already in the game. Its not. There is no cloak which hides the back piece and hangs around your shoulders instead of your back... Also, don't be rude with that sarcasm.

> @"Danikat.8537" said: > > @"Fuchslein.8639" said: > > Can i ask, what is a Pauldron? > > Googlet it and get so many results who look like stuff we already have many times in the game. > > Hence the question, because I can not imagine it right now. > > Pauldrons are shoulder armour. In real life it's a specific type of curved shoulder armour worn as part of 15th century plate mail. In GW2 it's a generic term for all types of heavy shoulder armour. > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > Could we get a cloak+Pauldron merged skins in the future? > > > > Something that takes up both the back slot and the Shoulder slot with a large light or heavy cloak or even a hood folded back with even an option to for it to hide the head slot as well? I Wouldn't mind having more armor pieces that really push these designs as I'm struggling to create specific looks in the game and I'd like these as options. Some more options to really push the fantasy of my character's design. We have some pieces of armor that hide other pieces of armor, so having one that hides the backpiece as well could be nice. Especially as my design tastes in the game change from hyper flashy to simple on occasion. > > There's no need for it to take up both slots. There are already some skins which hide others, like the light Diviner Helm or Dry Bones Hood which hide any shoulder armour you've got equipped or light Flame Legion Vestments (chest) which hide your leg armour. (I'm sure there's heavy and medium skins which do this too, I just can't remember any.) > > So if Anet wanted to make a one-piece hood and cloak which covers your head, shoulders and back they could make it an item for any of those 3 slots and have it hide whatever you've got equipped in the other two slots. That would mean you'd still be able to use the other armour pieces for stats, they just wouldn't be visible. (And since all 3 of those slots can be hidden anyway I assume it would be possible to do that.) I want a Cloak. Cloaks are a bit different to capes since they wrap around the wearer a bit more than what we have. here https://jogwanguk.artstation.com/projects/x5gbR We don't have armor that does that. Nothing that wraps around like that. Or this https://en.wiki.tribalwars2.com/images/a/a6/Paladin_big.png . See how its under the shoulder armor? Or this https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fe/10/96/fe109640e53e8b389cb3a32c2e15641a.jpg This sort of thing can't be replicated. The closest we've got is the Ebon shoulders which don't quite cut it. They're nice and I do like them, but it doesn't allow me to simulate a cloak. Especially not having a large fur cloak. Just doesn't get the results I want.

Don't expect any major changes until after EoD is released. That's what I'm expecting at least.