GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Bunter.3795" said: > > > > > I'd love to see the lines at the gas stations by all the people claiming this was "unfair" or whatever after the price in gas decreases. Do you go back the next day and ask for a refund because the price decreased over night? I don't think so. > > > > > > > > I'm happy to point out your analogy is very bad. Gas prices are mostly dictated by worldwide oil market. Meanwhile gemstore prices and its content are 100% arbitrary decisions. > > > > > > > > > > If by arbitrary, you mean intentionally set mostly according to various pricing and marketing analysis, then yep, completely arbitrary. > > > > Yes, arbitrary. Because nothing forces them to make prices this way. Meanwhile gas station won't sell you gas for 1,50$ when oil is 3,00$ > > Yep, nothing at all... nothing like salaries, benefits, rent, infrastructure or silly stuff like that. Why would a company sell software (items) for less than the cost to develop them. What is the cost? They create 1 item and sell it multiple times. Once the item is created, they don't spend more resources per sale. Meaning that this comparison is even worse because in real world to create and sell something you use resources for every single sale. In virtual world, once the item is created, every sale after the first one is 100% income, 0% costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourningcry.9428 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Bunter.3795" said: > > > > > > I'd love to see the lines at the gas stations by all the people claiming this was "unfair" or whatever after the price in gas decreases. Do you go back the next day and ask for a refund because the price decreased over night? I don't think so. > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy to point out your analogy is very bad. Gas prices are mostly dictated by worldwide oil market. Meanwhile gemstore prices and its content are 100% arbitrary decisions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If by arbitrary, you mean intentionally set mostly according to various pricing and marketing analysis, then yep, completely arbitrary. > > > > > > Yes, arbitrary. Because nothing forces them to make prices this way. Meanwhile gas station won't sell you gas for 1,50$ when oil is 3,00$ > > > > Yep, nothing at all... nothing like salaries, benefits, rent, infrastructure or silly stuff like that. Why would a company sell software (items) for less than the cost to develop them. > > What is the cost? They create 1 item and sell it multiple times. Once the item is created, they don't spend more resources per sale. Meaning that this comparison is even worse because in real world to create and sell something you use resources for every single sale. In virtual world, once the item is created, every sale after the first one is 100% income, 0% costs. You're right.... software with minimal marginal costs actually do cost nothing to produce. The development team that came up the idea for the item, the designer and artists that worked on it, the developer that coded it, the QA team that tested it, they all work for free. They actually don't collect a salary for developing the game software, that happens for free. Just because an item has little to no marginal cost, does not mean it has no cost. Based on your understanding, the first copy of Microsoft Word would have cost millions for that first copy to allow every sale after that to be 100% revenue. So, no, it takes multiple sales to make up for the initial cost. To be blunt, the understanding you've shown regarding finance and software economics is, well, lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Bunter.3795" said: > > > > > > > I'd love to see the lines at the gas stations by all the people claiming this was "unfair" or whatever after the price in gas decreases. Do you go back the next day and ask for a refund because the price decreased over night? I don't think so. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy to point out your analogy is very bad. Gas prices are mostly dictated by worldwide oil market. Meanwhile gemstore prices and its content are 100% arbitrary decisions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If by arbitrary, you mean intentionally set mostly according to various pricing and marketing analysis, then yep, completely arbitrary. > > > > > > > > Yes, arbitrary. Because nothing forces them to make prices this way. Meanwhile gas station won't sell you gas for 1,50$ when oil is 3,00$ > > > > > > Yep, nothing at all... nothing like salaries, benefits, rent, infrastructure or silly stuff like that. Why would a company sell software (items) for less than the cost to develop them. > > > > What is the cost? They create 1 item and sell it multiple times. Once the item is created, they don't spend more resources per sale. Meaning that this comparison is even worse because in real world to create and sell something you use resources for every single sale. In virtual world, once the item is created, every sale after the first one is 100% income, 0% costs. > > You're right.... software with minimal marginal costs actually do cost nothing to produce. The development team that came up the idea for the item, the designer and artists that worked on it, the developer that coded it, the QA team that tested it, they all work for free. They actually don't collect a salary for developing the game software, that happens for free. > > Just because an item has little to no marginal cost, does not mean it has no cost. > > Based on your understanding, the first copy of Microsoft Word would have cost millions for that first copy to allow every sale after that to be 100% revenue. > > So, no, it takes multiple sales to make up for the initial cost. > > To be blunt, the understanding you've shown regarding finance and software economics is, well, lacking. > And still, the gas station comparison is wrong :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourningcry.9428 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Bunter.3795" said: > > > > > > > > I'd love to see the lines at the gas stations by all the people claiming this was "unfair" or whatever after the price in gas decreases. Do you go back the next day and ask for a refund because the price decreased over night? I don't think so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy to point out your analogy is very bad. Gas prices are mostly dictated by worldwide oil market. Meanwhile gemstore prices and its content are 100% arbitrary decisions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If by arbitrary, you mean intentionally set mostly according to various pricing and marketing analysis, then yep, completely arbitrary. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, arbitrary. Because nothing forces them to make prices this way. Meanwhile gas station won't sell you gas for 1,50$ when oil is 3,00$ > > > > > > > > Yep, nothing at all... nothing like salaries, benefits, rent, infrastructure or silly stuff like that. Why would a company sell software (items) for less than the cost to develop them. > > > > > > What is the cost? They create 1 item and sell it multiple times. Once the item is created, they don't spend more resources per sale. Meaning that this comparison is even worse because in real world to create and sell something you use resources for every single sale. In virtual world, once the item is created, every sale after the first one is 100% income, 0% costs. > > > > You're right.... software with minimal marginal costs actually do cost nothing to produce. The development team that came up the idea for the item, the designer and artists that worked on it, the developer that coded it, the QA team that tested it, they all work for free. They actually don't collect a salary for developing the game software, that happens for free. > > > > Just because an item has little to no marginal cost, does not mean it has no cost. > > > > Based on your understanding, the first copy of Microsoft Word would have cost millions for that first copy to allow every sale after that to be 100% revenue. > > > > So, no, it takes multiple sales to make up for the initial cost. > > > > To be blunt, the understanding you've shown regarding finance and software economics is, well, lacking. > > > > And still, the gas station comparison is wrong :) No doubt, Bunter's analogy is still wrong :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Bunter.3795" said: > > > > > > I'd love to see the lines at the gas stations by all the people claiming this was "unfair" or whatever after the price in gas decreases. Do you go back the next day and ask for a refund because the price decreased over night? I don't think so. > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy to point out your analogy is very bad. Gas prices are mostly dictated by worldwide oil market. Meanwhile gemstore prices and its content are 100% arbitrary decisions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If by arbitrary, you mean intentionally set mostly according to various pricing and marketing analysis, then yep, completely arbitrary. > > > > > > Yes, arbitrary. Because nothing forces them to make prices this way. Meanwhile gas station won't sell you gas for 1,50$ when oil is 3,00$ > > > > Yep, nothing at all... nothing like salaries, benefits, rent, infrastructure or silly stuff like that. Why would a company sell software (items) for less than the cost to develop them. > > What is the cost? They create 1 item and sell it multiple times. Once the item is created, they don't spend more resources per sale. Meaning that this comparison is even worse because in real world to create and sell something you use resources for every single sale. In virtual world, once the item is created, every sale after the first one is 100% income, 0% costs. I'm wondering, then, what pays for all the free content we receive. What paid for the change to Material Storage? What paid for the Caladbolg quest? What pays for Side Stories/Current Events? What pays for the majority of Living World releases? Improvements, of any kind, to the game? Free items? Contests? Could it be those Gem Store items? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Bunter.3795" said: > > > > > > > I'd love to see the lines at the gas stations by all the people claiming this was "unfair" or whatever after the price in gas decreases. Do you go back the next day and ask for a refund because the price decreased over night? I don't think so. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm happy to point out your analogy is very bad. Gas prices are mostly dictated by worldwide oil market. Meanwhile gemstore prices and its content are 100% arbitrary decisions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If by arbitrary, you mean intentionally set mostly according to various pricing and marketing analysis, then yep, completely arbitrary. > > > > > > > > Yes, arbitrary. Because nothing forces them to make prices this way. Meanwhile gas station won't sell you gas for 1,50$ when oil is 3,00$ > > > > > > Yep, nothing at all... nothing like salaries, benefits, rent, infrastructure or silly stuff like that. Why would a company sell software (items) for less than the cost to develop them. > > > > What is the cost? They create 1 item and sell it multiple times. Once the item is created, they don't spend more resources per sale. Meaning that this comparison is even worse because in real world to create and sell something you use resources for every single sale. In virtual world, once the item is created, every sale after the first one is 100% income, 0% costs. > > I'm wondering, then, what pays for all the free content we receive. What paid for the change to Material Storage? What paid for the Caladbolg quest? What pays for Side Stories/Current Events? What pays for the majority of Living World releases? Improvements, of any kind, to the game? Free items? Contests? > > Could it be those Gem Store items? This thread is about BLC and its value not about whole company. Would love to remind you, while I find lootboxes a scam by definition, nothing is going to change. Too many people are already programmed to accept gambling in their games and pay for gambling. No matter how many threads like this are created, no matter what you think about this or what my opinion is. Nothing is going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 And yet, the Gem Store, and its contents, is what supports the 'whole company'. Without it, what would pay for the aforementioned content? The point is that the resources used to create one item may be recovered after a few sales of said item, but the resources used to create other content must be recovered somewhere, and it is through these Gem Store items that that is achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharterforGw.3149 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Wandering Mist.2973" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > All decisions made around gemstore are for anet to take your money. There is no fair or unfair. This is how companies work. Based on greed. They want your money and that's all they care about. > > > > I always find this to be an odd stance to take. Yes they need to make money, and yes this is how business works. HOWEVER, anyone who has done any kind of PR or business with the public knows that the 1 thing that is sure to drive customers away is shady practices and lack of communication. Customers aren't stupid, and greedy practices will be discovered and punished, particularly when it comes to video games. More than once in recent times a gaming company has tried to pull the wool over customer's eyes only to have it thrown back in their face. Just look at what happened to Star Wars Battlefront 2. The devs said that they didn't put in cosmetics like different coloured character skins into their loot boxes and that they weren't planning to put them into the game at all, for "canon" reasons. And guess what? Some players got into the game files and found a load of fully designed and working cosmetic options that were coded into the game, yet locked away from the playerbase. > > > > EA aren't the only ones getting caught with their hands in the cookie jar either. last November Activision-Blizzard got caught out in Destiny 2 when players discovered that there was hidden exp scaling in the game (bearing in mind that in Destiny 2 you get a loot box every time you fill the exp bar) which would give you less actual exp than it told you it was giving, and the longer you played in a given session, the less exp you would get, to the point where if you played for long enough you would get just 4% of the amount of exp you should have gotten. The devs didn't tell the players this and only admitted to it and changed it after the community had discovered it for themselves. > > > > I would like to think that Anet don't try and pull the same kind of stunt in GW2 and that they respect their players enough to be honest with them, but I know that's a pretty forlorn hope. > > Mountgate proved PR is irrelevant. They changed nothing, people are still paying and playing. Conclusion: forum warriors are irrelevant for money flow. But we don't know if the mounts are actually bringing in the amount of money they hoped for. So it's a bit hard to say such a thing. I still play the game. I just don't care about the mounts. Wo nt ever buy a skin. For me it will be something entirely different that would make me quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > > > @"Drecien.4508" said: > > > But you knew the bl chests were changing on tuesday. they always change them after an event/festival is over, and always on a tuesday. This isnt a hidden secret. They have done it for years. Dont complain cause you couldnt wait a few days to open chests. > > > > As said before (many times), the expectation was the change of the seasonal contents. The addition of statuettes was not a seasonal change. > > And as others have said, it wasn't an unprecedented change. I get that you're disappointed. I'm hoping that you get that doesn't mean it was unfair. I hope you agree that it was a positive change for the contents and that it was better that ANet implemented it sooner rather than later. That changes the concern to "what would be the least painful way to roll it out, for the greatest number of people?" > > Or put another way, some group of BL Key purchasers was bound to be frustrated by just having missed out. Why is the group that bought during the the last week of 2017/first week of 2018 any different than the groups that bought earlier? Maybe i formulated it poorly. I agree the change is a very good one. And it's one that's been requested for a long time. And in of the first comments we already agreed unfair wasn't the right term. Something more along the line of 'disappointment in poor communication or timing'. The last comment i replied that to started that the statuette change should've been expected, which i don't believe is a fair standard unless you have insider knowledge. I'll agree my current position is now that "i have to suck up that it was bad luck for me, to be caught inbetween two deals". I think it's best to close to the topic now, we have people agreeing it was poor pr of anet to do things this way, as well as people saying a business has a right to do it this way. (Even though I've accepted the outcome, won't mean i won't be paranoid for the gem store for a little while) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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