Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? Are you telling me that _most_ people in existing 300-person guilds know all 300 people? > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? Are you telling me that happens with people in just a single guild? > what so different between that and now then? You've misunderstood the value of belonging to multiple organizations. My _relationship_ is primarily with the group, not the individuals in it. In fact, people come & go, while the institution remains. If you re-read what people have stated, allowing yourself the _possibility_ that you might change your mind, you'll see that not everyone sees guilds as you do. **** I _already_ have relationships with multiple GW2 "guilds." I just can't belong to more than 5 in the game. I use a variation of the "friends list" in game + nicknames and discord to maintain those institutional relationships. To reiterate (just in case you don't have time to scroll up): * People with whom I raid * People with whom I fractal * People with whom I WvW * People with whom I just chat and rarely play with any more. * A guild where my primary relationship is answer questions in /guild and posting in their Discord * People with whom I would dungeon regularly, if it weren't so difficult to keep track of them. * People with whom I would Living World, again if it weren't so difficult to keep track. * And more... It's fine that a lot of people prefer to join one guild and give it all their attention. My interests are varied and I know that there is no single guild that can share them. That's why I want to be in more than 5 GW2 guilds. And finally, aside from the opportunity costs of ANet adding this feature (rather than some other), why does it bother anyone else if some people belong to six guilds instead of one? How does it affect anyone else's experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > And finally, aside from the opportunity costs of ANet adding this feature (rather than some other), why does it bother anyone else if some people belong to six guilds instead of one? How does it affect anyone else's experience? This. With adding features like this it just means people have more options if they would like them. Being opposed just for the fact that you can't see doing things outside of your primary guild isn't a justification to block others from doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > Are you telling me that _most_ people in existing 300-person guilds know all 300 people? > > > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > Are you telling me that happens with people in just a single guild? > > > what so different between that and now then? > You've misunderstood the value of belonging to multiple organizations. > > My _relationship_ is primarily with the group, not the individuals in it. In fact, people come & go, while the institution remains. > > If you re-read what people have stated, allowing yourself the _possibility_ that you might change your mind, you'll see that not everyone sees guilds as you do. > > **** > I _already_ have relationships with multiple GW2 "guilds." I just can't belong to more than 5 in the game. I use a variation of the "friends list" in game + nicknames and discord to maintain those institutional relationships. > > To reiterate (just in case you don't have time to scroll up): > * People with whom I raid > * People with whom I fractal > * People with whom I WvW > * People with whom I just chat and rarely play with any more. > * A guild where my primary relationship is answer questions in /guild and posting in their Discord > * People with whom I would dungeon regularly, if it weren't so difficult to keep track of them. > * People with whom I would Living World, again if it weren't so difficult to keep track. > * And more... > > It's fine that a lot of people prefer to join one guild and give it all their attention. My interests are varied and I know that there is no single guild that can share them. That's why I want to be in more than 5 GW2 guilds. > > And finally, aside from the opportunity costs of ANet adding this feature (rather than some other), why does it bother anyone else if some people belong to six guilds instead of one? How does it affect anyone else's experience? > 1. everything i posted are build on a logical link with one another. you quoting them out of context is good as breaking that logical link. so, unless you can see them as entire context and not as a breakdown, then i would reason with your first part 2. what you said here is the similar as that of the other person and thus my post before this should sufficiently reason that as well. your's fall under guild for convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XYLO.7031 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 I know there are traditionalists out there who say we should only have one guild, and yes, I hear where they're coming from. However, our game here has given us the ability to have 5 guilds. The old system of 100% rep for influence is long gone. So these days, more is better for a few reasons. Since we never really had a working friend list where we can just talk to friends all at once, you need to be part of one guild just to talk to the people you like. Our current friend list, follower list, and block list all act in a similar fashion: they are just categorized silent lists with the exception of the block list preventing communication. I honestly wish I could track down buddies like in other games and be on their exact instance to surprise them without going through the whole "get me in a party or squad so we can be together" deal we've had. And so, my first and longest relationship is with [Pure] Silver Knights. I like chatting with my old buddies who helped me in learning the game freely. So one guild for friends is a must. Next, we have different game modes: PvP, WvW, and PvE. Rest assured, not all of us engage in all three types equally. I honestly don't know or care about what happens in PvP or WvW. They're entirely different games in my opinion. At any rate, you would need at least one other guild for the game modes you play. Next up is specialized content. Again I can't go into WvW or PvP but PvE has loads of different things to do and guilds that are better than one thing over another. I never touch raids but there are many raiding guilds out there so that's just one more guild of people you would need to organize people and experience the game. I am in two dungeon guilds, one that speed runs with pros like Kojaa in Friends vs Dungeons [FvD] who can solo Arah (shout out to May, Trying, Niier, and Bird) like nobody's business and another guild who gives full explanations in Deep Space Nebula [sTAR] to help people understand wth is going on (shout out to Farah and Fate). I honestly like both guilds but for different reasons. I started repping more on STAR because I like the name, it matches my stardust mount skins, and I wanted to promote them because we could use the people and are not maxed out in level. Next there's meta event guilds as well as boss train and bounty train guilds. If it weren't for the guild limit, I would probably be part of Nem's Bounty Train Company [NBTC] because I've been going to their runs sporadically since they started running those consistently. If Post Reset TT people formed one guild (shout out to Jayne, Mustard, Daremai, Tami, Invi, Enki, Wild, Annisha and the whole lot of you from years back with AA, Dino, and BE guilds omg take a break like Trix and Harle did LOL) I may join them too if they ever organized under one guild banner and if I had the space. I only contributed because of Sienna. Sienna always asked me nicely so I led wurms or pulled adds away from blockers and zerg or condi killed husks when new blockers were training. Next are chill out my shenanigans type guilds. Shout out to [TINY] guild of smols with Pew, Taimi, Jilly, Slooty, Spekki, Pip, Plorrt, Quisa, Rick, etc. (so many smols), Asura only. By far, the most fun guild to hang with in DR and run a parade with. I also like to do some casual RP as Gorrík. Yes, I have the name and toon all matched up. People complain about mount collections on map chat when they see me. Lol. The most unique thing about [TINY] is that they never advertise in map chat for recruitment. People just see the culture and ask to join (or we see an unguilded Asura and pitch to them individually). I have a small gymkhana guild for beetle stunts as well. I know there are racing guilds out there like Tyria [DRFT] and Guild Wars Grand Prix [GWGP] too. I almost forgot to mention Storage and Bank guilds. I honestly don't know a single guild that can provide ALL experiences in game equally enough to deserve 100% rep when we have 5 slots and need more to accommodate all the various interests in the game. TL; DR. 5 guilds are not enough. I wouldn't have dropped a single guild if it weren't for the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > 1. everything i posted are build on a logical link with one another. you quoting them out of context is good as breaking that logical link. so, unless you can see them as entire context and not as a breakdown, then i would reason with your first part Sorry, no, it's not logical for you to make claims about what is or isn't in my interest or in the interest of the organizations to which I belong, (and of which you are not a member). Your supposed logical link doesn't extend from "that is assuming the people using guild in a way you think they would but we don't live in your ideal world what he said is based on acceptance of the reality where guilds in gw2 are more a convenience than a community" -- it's a circular argument. > 2. what you said here is the similar as that of the other person and thus my post before this should sufficiently reason that as well. your's fall under guild for convenience. My stated reasons for establishing and maintaining relationships with groups of like-minded people. Regardless: why do you care how many groups someone else joins? Or why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etria.3642 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > > Are you telling me that _most_ people in existing 300-person guilds know all 300 people? > > > > > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > > Are you telling me that happens with people in just a single guild? > > > > > what so different between that and now then? > > You've misunderstood the value of belonging to multiple organizations. > > > > My _relationship_ is primarily with the group, not the individuals in it. In fact, people come & go, while the institution remains. > > > > If you re-read what people have stated, allowing yourself the _possibility_ that you might change your mind, you'll see that not everyone sees guilds as you do. > > > > **** > > I _already_ have relationships with multiple GW2 "guilds." I just can't belong to more than 5 in the game. I use a variation of the "friends list" in game + nicknames and discord to maintain those institutional relationships. > > > > To reiterate (just in case you don't have time to scroll up): > > * People with whom I raid > > * People with whom I fractal > > * People with whom I WvW > > * People with whom I just chat and rarely play with any more. > > * A guild where my primary relationship is answer questions in /guild and posting in their Discord > > * People with whom I would dungeon regularly, if it weren't so difficult to keep track of them. > > * People with whom I would Living World, again if it weren't so difficult to keep track. > > * And more... > > > > It's fine that a lot of people prefer to join one guild and give it all their attention. My interests are varied and I know that there is no single guild that can share them. That's why I want to be in more than 5 GW2 guilds. > > > > And finally, aside from the opportunity costs of ANet adding this feature (rather than some other), why does it bother anyone else if some people belong to six guilds instead of one? How does it affect anyone else's experience? > > > > 1. everything i posted are build on a logical link with one another. you quoting them out of context is good as breaking that logical link. so, unless you can see them as entire context and not as a breakdown, then i would reason with your first part > 2. what you said here is the similar as that of the other person and thus my post before this should sufficiently reason that as well. your's fall under guild for convenience. Well, yes. Of course I want more guilds for convenience. Why on earth ELSE would I want more? INconvenience? Sorry if that sounds snippy, it's just. Uhm. I read that and was like. ... ... ... yes? EDIT: I got the survey in my email!! Woot! SO GIVING MY FEEDBACK ON THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invisible Pete.7290 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 To re-iterate a response in a similar thread: There are always options.... 1. Perhaps Anet could treat guild slots like character slots, so players that desire more slots can purchase them with gems or in-game gold? 2. Currently there are three in-game non-guild organizations The Durmand Priory, The Order of Whispers, and The Vigil. Notice that while each of these has its own primary location, they also have "branch" offices in major cities (various POI). Why not extend this ability to Guilds? Allow guilds to capture more than one Guild Hall, have them identify one as the main guild hall, leaving the rest as the guild's branch office(s). Sure, a guild only needs one guild hall, but the ability to branch out would help give them reasons to continue with Guild Missions once the primary guild hall is finished. A method could be worked out to transfer resources at some rate of exchange from one guild location to the next. For example, once a Guild Hall is fully upgraded there really is no need to have Aetherium, but if you could transfer a quantity from one location to another at a less than one-to-one ratio (to pay for the transport cost), that would be a way to further utilize that resource. Of course, if more is needed, one could just develop the mine at the desired location and make direct use of all that is mined there. As an aside to this, I think that a guild hall location should be created for Central Tyria (possibly several, it's kind of a big area). After all, the game is called "Guild Wars 2".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > 1. everything i posted are build on a logical link with one another. you quoting them out of context is good as breaking that logical link. so, unless you can see them as entire context and not as a breakdown, then i would reason with your first part > > Sorry, no, it's not logical for you to make claims about what is or isn't in my interest or in the interest of the organizations to which I belong, (and of which you are not a member). Your supposed logical link doesn't extend from "that is assuming the people using guild in a way you think they would but we don't live in your ideal world > what he said is based on acceptance of the reality where guilds in gw2 are more a convenience than a community" -- it's a circular argument. > > > 2. what you said here is the similar as that of the other person and thus my post before this should sufficiently reason that as well. your's fall under guild for convenience. > My stated reasons for establishing and maintaining relationships with groups of like-minded people. > > Regardless: why do you care how many groups someone else joins? Or why? 1. you are still ignoring the point. 2. it already answered in the other post, if you can't comprehend, i suggest you ponder on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 > @"Etria.3642" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > > > Are you telling me that _most_ people in existing 300-person guilds know all 300 people? > > > > > > > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > > > Are you telling me that happens with people in just a single guild? > > > > > > > what so different between that and now then? > > > You've misunderstood the value of belonging to multiple organizations. > > > > > > My _relationship_ is primarily with the group, not the individuals in it. In fact, people come & go, while the institution remains. > > > > > > If you re-read what people have stated, allowing yourself the _possibility_ that you might change your mind, you'll see that not everyone sees guilds as you do. > > > > > > **** > > > I _already_ have relationships with multiple GW2 "guilds." I just can't belong to more than 5 in the game. I use a variation of the "friends list" in game + nicknames and discord to maintain those institutional relationships. > > > > > > To reiterate (just in case you don't have time to scroll up): > > > * People with whom I raid > > > * People with whom I fractal > > > * People with whom I WvW > > > * People with whom I just chat and rarely play with any more. > > > * A guild where my primary relationship is answer questions in /guild and posting in their Discord > > > * People with whom I would dungeon regularly, if it weren't so difficult to keep track of them. > > > * People with whom I would Living World, again if it weren't so difficult to keep track. > > > * And more... > > > > > > It's fine that a lot of people prefer to join one guild and give it all their attention. My interests are varied and I know that there is no single guild that can share them. That's why I want to be in more than 5 GW2 guilds. > > > > > > And finally, aside from the opportunity costs of ANet adding this feature (rather than some other), why does it bother anyone else if some people belong to six guilds instead of one? How does it affect anyone else's experience? > > > > > > > 1. everything i posted are build on a logical link with one another. you quoting them out of context is good as breaking that logical link. so, unless you can see them as entire context and not as a breakdown, then i would reason with your first part > > 2. what you said here is the similar as that of the other person and thus my post before this should sufficiently reason that as well. your's fall under guild for convenience. > > Well, yes. Of course I want more guilds for convenience. Why on earth ELSE would I want more? INconvenience? > > Sorry if that sounds snippy, it's just. Uhm. I read that and was like. ... ... ... yes? > > EDIT: I got the survey in my email!! Woot! SO GIVING MY FEEDBACK ON THIS. apparently you don't understand what it means, i suggest you ponder upon it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > 1. you are still ignoring the point. Am I? I've offered a number of substantive reasons for wanting the cap raised on the number of guild memberships, which you've glossed over. > 2. it already answered in the other post, if you can't comprehend, i suggest you ponder on it. So you don't intend to explain why it matters to you if people belong to 6 guilds instead of 5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etria.3642 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > @"Nury.3062" said: > > > It's sad to see what has become of the notion of belonging to a guild...the pride,the friendships,now guilds are things to exploit in one way or another. > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > that is assuming the people using guild in a way you think they would but we don't live in your ideal world > what he said is based on acceptance of the reality where guilds in gw2 are more a convenience than a community > > for example > if u ask for 10 slots > each guild has 30 people > wouldn't that be 300 people > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > what so different between that and now then? > > the word "friendships" shouldn't be abused, please don't make that word sound cheap This was your first post in here. I think, what you are saying, is the only reason you should be in a guild is for friendship? Since you told me to go back to your post and ponder it. What if MY reasons are convenience? Have you pondered that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 > @"Etria.3642" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > @"Nury.3062" said: > > > > It's sad to see what has become of the notion of belonging to a guild...the pride,the friendships,now guilds are things to exploit in one way or another. > > > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > > > that is assuming the people using guild in a way you think they would but we don't live in your ideal world > > what he said is based on acceptance of the reality where guilds in gw2 are more a convenience than a community > > > > for example > > if u ask for 10 slots > > each guild has 30 people > > wouldn't that be 300 people > > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > > what so different between that and now then? > > > > the word "friendships" shouldn't be abused, please don't make that word sound cheap > > This was your first post in here. I think, what you are saying, is the only reason you should be in a guild is for friendship? Since you told me to go back to your post and ponder it. > > What if MY reasons are convenience? Have you pondered that? I am not against people who are using guilds for convenience but one should be honest about it and not gain sympathy by using words they don't mean it. In other words, your initial claim on friendships, I assume, is false? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > > @"Nury.3062" said: > > > > > It's sad to see what has become of the notion of belonging to a guild...the pride,the friendships,now guilds are things to exploit in one way or another. > > > > > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > > > > > that is assuming the people using guild in a way you think they would but we don't live in your ideal world > > > what he said is based on acceptance of the reality where guilds in gw2 are more a convenience than a community > > > > > > for example > > > if u ask for 10 slots > > > each guild has 30 people > > > wouldn't that be 300 people > > > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > > > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > > > what so different between that and now then? > > > > > > the word "friendships" shouldn't be abused, please don't make that word sound cheap > > > > This was your first post in here. I think, what you are saying, is the only reason you should be in a guild is for friendship? Since you told me to go back to your post and ponder it. > > > > What if MY reasons are convenience? Have you pondered that? > > I am not against people who are using guilds for convenience but one should be honest about it and not gain sympathy by using words they don't mean it. > In other words, your initial claim on friendships, I assume, is false? Different people like to do different things. There are many different activities in game that are greatly helped with guild membership because it allows players to more easily communicate, and group up to engage in activities. -WvW- Different timezones, different playstyles (roamer, havok/small team, zerg), also with alliances coming up you will need a dedicated WvW guild to stay together when they reshuffle everyone. -PvP guild -PvE-open world (metas, farming, etc) dungeons/fractals/raids -Personal guilds/storage/family and friends etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etria.3642 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > > @"Nury.3062" said: > > > > > It's sad to see what has become of the notion of belonging to a guild...the pride,the friendships,now guilds are things to exploit in one way or another. > > > > > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > > > > > that is assuming the people using guild in a way you think they would but we don't live in your ideal world > > > what he said is based on acceptance of the reality where guilds in gw2 are more a convenience than a community > > > > > > for example > > > if u ask for 10 slots > > > each guild has 30 people > > > wouldn't that be 300 people > > > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > > > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > > > what so different between that and now then? > > > > > > the word "friendships" shouldn't be abused, please don't make that word sound cheap > > > > This was your first post in here. I think, what you are saying, is the only reason you should be in a guild is for friendship? Since you told me to go back to your post and ponder it. > > > > What if MY reasons are convenience? Have you pondered that? > > I am not against people who are using guilds for convenience but one should be honest about it and not gain sympathy by using words they don't mean it. > In other words, your initial claim on friendships, I assume, is false? I am getting, I admit, rather confused here. Why can't it be both? What initial claim? I am not the OP, I just agree with them on the topic of more guilds. Also, rereading the thread, I /think/ someone else said the statement you're objecting too, mine always had a mixture of friends, family, and other activities. Let me see, yes, the post you quoted was posted by The Grimm. And in HIS post he wasn't asking for sympathy, he was saying: You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. Your response to his query was to ask if he was friends with everyone in every guild. I am definitely NOT friends with everyone in every guild but I AM friends with at least one person in each guild I am a member of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Etria.3642" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > > > @"Nury.3062" said: > > > > > > It's sad to see what has become of the notion of belonging to a guild...the pride,the friendships,now guilds are things to exploit in one way or another. > > > > > > > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > > > > > > > that is assuming the people using guild in a way you think they would but we don't live in your ideal world > > > > what he said is based on acceptance of the reality where guilds in gw2 are more a convenience than a community > > > > > > > > for example > > > > if u ask for 10 slots > > > > each guild has 30 people > > > > wouldn't that be 300 people > > > > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > > > > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > > > > what so different between that and now then? > > > > > > > > the word "friendships" shouldn't be abused, please don't make that word sound cheap > > > > > > This was your first post in here. I think, what you are saying, is the only reason you should be in a guild is for friendship? Since you told me to go back to your post and ponder it. > > > > > > What if MY reasons are convenience? Have you pondered that? > > > > I am not against people who are using guilds for convenience but one should be honest about it and not gain sympathy by using words they don't mean it. > > In other words, your initial claim on friendships, I assume, is false? > > I am getting, I admit, rather confused here. Why can't it be both? What initial claim? I am not the OP, I just agree with them on the topic of more guilds. Also, rereading the thread, I /think/ someone else said the statement you're objecting too, mine always had a mixture of friends, family, and other activities. Let me see, yes, the post you quoted was posted by The Grimm. And in HIS post he wasn't asking for sympathy, he was saying: > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > Your response to his query was to ask if he was friends with everyone in every guild. > > I am definitely NOT friends with everyone in every guild but I AM friends with at least one person in each guild I am a member of. > Oh, you are right, you are not of the same person, no wonder you are not even on that frequency. I have just wasted my time. It would be great if you can stand in the shoes of the person in debate before hijacking the conversation. Also, the conversation was about claiming it promote friendships but a average person can only maintain meaningful relationships with, according to dunbar's number, an high estimate of 230 people. This including real life relationships plus games plus everywhere else, I am sorry but the science doesn't support your argument unless you are telling me you are alone in everywhere else. Therefore, having more guilds don't promote relationships if one already have trouble making meaningful relationships in existing 5 guilds limitation of a potential of 2500 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etria.3642 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > > > > @"Nury.3062" said: > > > > > > > It's sad to see what has become of the notion of belonging to a guild...the pride,the friendships,now guilds are things to exploit in one way or another. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > > > > > > > > > that is assuming the people using guild in a way you think they would but we don't live in your ideal world > > > > > what he said is based on acceptance of the reality where guilds in gw2 are more a convenience than a community > > > > > > > > > > for example > > > > > if u ask for 10 slots > > > > > each guild has 30 people > > > > > wouldn't that be 300 people > > > > > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > > > > > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > > > > > what so different between that and now then? > > > > > > > > > > the word "friendships" shouldn't be abused, please don't make that word sound cheap > > > > > > > > This was your first post in here. I think, what you are saying, is the only reason you should be in a guild is for friendship? Since you told me to go back to your post and ponder it. > > > > > > > > What if MY reasons are convenience? Have you pondered that? > > > > > > I am not against people who are using guilds for convenience but one should be honest about it and not gain sympathy by using words they don't mean it. > > > In other words, your initial claim on friendships, I assume, is false? > > > > I am getting, I admit, rather confused here. Why can't it be both? What initial claim? I am not the OP, I just agree with them on the topic of more guilds. Also, rereading the thread, I /think/ someone else said the statement you're objecting too, mine always had a mixture of friends, family, and other activities. Let me see, yes, the post you quoted was posted by The Grimm. And in HIS post he wasn't asking for sympathy, he was saying: > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > > > Your response to his query was to ask if he was friends with everyone in every guild. > > > > I am definitely NOT friends with everyone in every guild but I AM friends with at least one person in each guild I am a member of. > > > > Oh, you are right, you are not of the same person, no wonder you are not even on that frequency. I have just wasted my time. > It would be great if you can stand in the shoes of the person in debate before hijacking the conversation. > > Also, the conversation was about claiming it promote friendships but a average person can only maintain meaningful relationships with, according to dunbar's number, an high estimate of 230 people. This including real life relationships plus games plus everywhere else, I am sorry but the science doesn't support your argument unless you are telling me you are alone in everywhere else. Therefore, having more guilds don't promote relationships if one already have trouble making meaningful relationships in existing 5 guilds limitation of a potential of 2500 people. Yeah I don't think I am friends with 235 people. However, that said, being in a guild with a friend DOES promote adding another friendship. For example! My daughter joined a raid training guild. (Yes, I consider myself friends with my daughter. We get along, we play video games together), at that point in time I was not even an acquaintance with a single other person in that guild. Fast forward a year, and the static I'm on now is batting around the idea of an IRL BBQ meetup. The friends in SWTOR who came to GW2 and formed their own guild, that I do not have the space to join, I rarely talk to now--one of them, I do still text back and forth with, as we have grandchildren the same age(4!) but without an easy way to communicate, they just kind of fall by the wayside, and I truly miss talking to some of them. My fault more than Anets, to be sure, but it would facilitate the communication. And, as someone else asked you, what difference does it make, to you, if I am in six guilds? I promise to drop posting on this if you answer. I really want to know! because it doesn't matter to me if you are in 1, 2, or 26! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"X T D.6458" said: > > Can we get an increase in the amount of guilds that a player can be a part of? Guilds are a useful tool for organizing players, and there are many different types of content that this could be used for across game modes, also personal guilds. It would be very helpful to have an increase. > > I've been requesting this since day 1. > (Among other types: WvW guild, instanced content guild, friends, hang-out guild, teaching|training guild, and a slot to have for special situations.) > > Others have questioned as to why anyone would need more than one guild. > > My guess is it comes down to resources: guilds require ANet to maintain a different type of data architecture than they use for most of the game. It probably isn't as robust in design and it probably isn't as easily scaled up or down as we think. Or in short: it's probably a lot costlier to add guild slots than it sounds. Generally I agree with this response to the gimmegimme's on this forum. But there's a small number of small QoL changes that I think would really benefit this game, increasing the guild cap is one of them. This isn't "tengu playable race should be big money for easy content" or "bring back season 1 all they have to do is cut and paste the assets". I can't see this being even as difficult to implement as Build Templates. This has always seemed like a reasonable ask from the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > It would be great if you can stand in the shoes of the person in debate before hijacking the conversation. The conversation is about increasing the number of guilds one can belong to, specifically, "suggestion: increase the guild limit" is the title. > Also, the conversation was about claiming it promote friendships No, it wasn't. It was about why people might want to belong to more than 5 guilds. > but a average person can only maintain meaningful relationships with, according to dunbar's number, an high estimate of 230 people. Whether that's true or not, it's 100% irrelevant to the number of guilds, because there's no reason that those people need to belong to the same guild. > This including real life relationships plus games plus everywhere else, I am sorry but the science doesn't support your argument unless you are telling me you are alone in everywhere else. "Dunbar's number is a suggested cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships," i.e. it's an estimate, based on research; it's not a hard & fast number. Other people have come up with other estimates. > Therefore, having more guilds don't promote relationships if one already have trouble making meaningful relationships in existing 5 guilds limitation of a potential of 2500 people. Again, that's not even what Dunbar's number is saying. Even in his theory, no one is required to have a stable social relationship with everyone in the same organization, especially one in which members are chosen for a variety of reasons. I have different relationships with different people in different guilds. In any given guild of 230 people, there's no reason why anyone has to be closely connected with any of the other 229, let alone all. **** So I again ask: why do you care if someone else belongs to six guilds instead of five? Aside from the opportunity cost of ANet choosing to work on that feature (instead of one you want more), how are you remotely impacted by what other people choose to do? I'm happy for you if you can find everything you need from a single guild. I hope you can accept that a lot of people (perhaps even most) are going to belong to multiple organizations, not just one, and they will form meaningful relationships with more people than if they restricted themselves to a single group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Is... Is _this_ the guild war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"Etria.3642" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nury.3062" said: > > > > > > > > It's sad to see what has become of the notion of belonging to a guild...the pride,the friendships,now guilds are things to exploit in one way or another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > > > > > > > > > > > that is assuming the people using guild in a way you think they would but we don't live in your ideal world > > > > > > what he said is based on acceptance of the reality where guilds in gw2 are more a convenience than a community > > > > > > > > > > > > for example > > > > > > if u ask for 10 slots > > > > > > each guild has 30 people > > > > > > wouldn't that be 300 people > > > > > > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > > > > > > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > > > > > > what so different between that and now then? > > > > > > > > > > > > the word "friendships" shouldn't be abused, please don't make that word sound cheap > > > > > > > > > > This was your first post in here. I think, what you are saying, is the only reason you should be in a guild is for friendship? Since you told me to go back to your post and ponder it. > > > > > > > > > > What if MY reasons are convenience? Have you pondered that? > > > > > > > > I am not against people who are using guilds for convenience but one should be honest about it and not gain sympathy by using words they don't mean it. > > > > In other words, your initial claim on friendships, I assume, is false? > > > > > > I am getting, I admit, rather confused here. Why can't it be both? What initial claim? I am not the OP, I just agree with them on the topic of more guilds. Also, rereading the thread, I /think/ someone else said the statement you're objecting too, mine always had a mixture of friends, family, and other activities. Let me see, yes, the post you quoted was posted by The Grimm. And in HIS post he wasn't asking for sympathy, he was saying: > > > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > > > > > Your response to his query was to ask if he was friends with everyone in every guild. > > > > > > I am definitely NOT friends with everyone in every guild but I AM friends with at least one person in each guild I am a member of. > > > > > > > Oh, you are right, you are not of the same person, no wonder you are not even on that frequency. I have just wasted my time. > > It would be great if you can stand in the shoes of the person in debate before hijacking the conversation. > > > > Also, the conversation was about claiming it promote friendships but a average person can only maintain meaningful relationships with, according to dunbar's number, an high estimate of 230 people. This including real life relationships plus games plus everywhere else, I am sorry but the science doesn't support your argument unless you are telling me you are alone in everywhere else. Therefore, having more guilds don't promote relationships if one already have trouble making meaningful relationships in existing 5 guilds limitation of a potential of 2500 people. > > Yeah I don't think I am friends with 235 people. However, that said, being in a guild with a friend DOES promote adding another friendship. For example! My daughter joined a raid training guild. (Yes, I consider myself friends with my daughter. We get along, we play video games together), at that point in time I was not even an acquaintance with a single other person in that guild. Fast forward a year, and the static I'm on now is batting around the idea of an IRL BBQ meetup. > > The friends in SWTOR who came to GW2 and formed their own guild, that I do not have the space to join, I rarely talk to now--one of them, I do still text back and forth with, as we have grandchildren the same age(4!) but without an easy way to communicate, they just kind of fall by the wayside, and I truly miss talking to some of them. My fault more than Anets, to be sure, but it would facilitate the communication. > > And, as someone else asked you, what difference does it make, to you, if I am in six guilds? I promise to drop posting on this if you answer. I really want to know! because it doesn't matter to me if you are in 1, 2, or 26! This is a debate about if having more guilds actually promote friendship as people claim. Let say you want 20 guild slots, does it really promote that. One need to ponder hard on that. Popular opinion on friendship usually lead to small guilds are better for it. Now you put one person accessing 20 small guilds, does that promote the same level of relationship as accessing 1 small guild? Of course not. If one divert their attentions on 20 small guilds, it just means all the guilds only got a fraction of the attention as compared to one small guild. With that fraction of attention, just want kind of relationship are you creating? I would say at best acquaintanceship (not friendship). While it is true that having multiple guilds do lead to a person having access to more social circles but it eventually become counterproductive as the number of circles grew. Since you claim yourself as a dad then you should be aware that one day your daughter gonna have her own family and then be spending less time and attention on you. Now imagine your daughter have 20 other social circles to partake with, just how much time and attention do you think she has left for you? Again, I am not against people who are honest on their requests for having more slots. However, I am against people who use words they don't mean it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrimm.5624 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > Again, I am not against people who are honest on their requests for having more slots. However, I am against people who use words they don't mean it. Ironically you quoted me, but I was responding to another poster who implied that if you belonged to multiple guilds you weren't forming friendships which is what I challenged. Most people will start off by joining a guild to group up with others, some for friendship, some will grow to be friends, some will just only do it for causal relationships. Each person's experiences will vary. I still challenge the fact that you can't have friends in different guilds, you can, and still challenge that not all of your friends will be friends, they won't be. So for that I am for increasing the guild limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etria.3642 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > > > @"Etria.3642" said: > > > > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > > > > > > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Nury.3062" said: > > > > > > > > > It's sad to see what has become of the notion of belonging to a guild...the pride,the friendships,now guilds are things to exploit in one way or another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that is assuming the people using guild in a way you think they would but we don't live in your ideal world > > > > > > > what he said is based on acceptance of the reality where guilds in gw2 are more a convenience than a community > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for example > > > > > > > if u ask for 10 slots > > > > > > > each guild has 30 people > > > > > > > wouldn't that be 300 people > > > > > > > are you telling me you gonna know all 300 people? > > > > > > > are you telling me you live in gw2 for such long hours that you can maintain relationships with 300 people? and likewise these 300 people can do to you? > > > > > > > what so different between that and now then? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the word "friendships" shouldn't be abused, please don't make that word sound cheap > > > > > > > > > > > > This was your first post in here. I think, what you are saying, is the only reason you should be in a guild is for friendship? Since you told me to go back to your post and ponder it. > > > > > > > > > > > > What if MY reasons are convenience? Have you pondered that? > > > > > > > > > > I am not against people who are using guilds for convenience but one should be honest about it and not gain sympathy by using words they don't mean it. > > > > > In other words, your initial claim on friendships, I assume, is false? > > > > > > > > I am getting, I admit, rather confused here. Why can't it be both? What initial claim? I am not the OP, I just agree with them on the topic of more guilds. Also, rereading the thread, I /think/ someone else said the statement you're objecting too, mine always had a mixture of friends, family, and other activities. Let me see, yes, the post you quoted was posted by The Grimm. And in HIS post he wasn't asking for sympathy, he was saying: > > > > > > > > You can't have pride and friendship with multiple people? What do you do if your friends have different objectives or might not agree with each other? Do you just cut those friends out? The purpose with multiple guilds is to stay connected with disparate groups, forcing everyone into mega guilds is not an answer either since it just means your are member 431, 237 or 78 versus you being you. > > > > > > > > Your response to his query was to ask if he was friends with everyone in every guild. > > > > > > > > I am definitely NOT friends with everyone in every guild but I AM friends with at least one person in each guild I am a member of. > > > > > > > > > > Oh, you are right, you are not of the same person, no wonder you are not even on that frequency. I have just wasted my time. > > > It would be great if you can stand in the shoes of the person in debate before hijacking the conversation. > > > > > > Also, the conversation was about claiming it promote friendships but a average person can only maintain meaningful relationships with, according to dunbar's number, an high estimate of 230 people. This including real life relationships plus games plus everywhere else, I am sorry but the science doesn't support your argument unless you are telling me you are alone in everywhere else. Therefore, having more guilds don't promote relationships if one already have trouble making meaningful relationships in existing 5 guilds limitation of a potential of 2500 people. > > > > Yeah I don't think I am friends with 235 people. However, that said, being in a guild with a friend DOES promote adding another friendship. For example! My daughter joined a raid training guild. (Yes, I consider myself friends with my daughter. We get along, we play video games together), at that point in time I was not even an acquaintance with a single other person in that guild. Fast forward a year, and the static I'm on now is batting around the idea of an IRL BBQ meetup. > > > > The friends in SWTOR who came to GW2 and formed their own guild, that I do not have the space to join, I rarely talk to now--one of them, I do still text back and forth with, as we have grandchildren the same age(4!) but without an easy way to communicate, they just kind of fall by the wayside, and I truly miss talking to some of them. My fault more than Anets, to be sure, but it would facilitate the communication. > > > > And, as someone else asked you, what difference does it make, to you, if I am in six guilds? I promise to drop posting on this if you answer. I really want to know! because it doesn't matter to me if you are in 1, 2, or 26! > > This is a debate about if having more guilds actually promote friendship as people claim. Let say you want 20 guild slots, does it really promote that. One need to ponder hard on that. > *snip* No, actually. This THREAD is about a REQUEST for more guild slots than five, and why. One of the posters included a 'to promote friendships' and I cannot say I disagree with them, but it is not my only, or even most pressing, reason. I do not need to ponder hard on whether I want GW2 to allow 20 guild slots. I already know I'd love it. Probably wouldn't use more than half, but it would serve. And you still have not answered why you are against ME, or any other player, having six guilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > This is a debate about if having more guilds actually promote friendship as people claim. Since when? Everyone else is discussing the idea of having more than 5 guild slots. Only you have decided that the conversation should be changed to something else. > Let say you want 20 guild slots, does it really promote that. One need to ponder hard on that. Not really. There's no reason why all one's friends are automatically going to start off or end up in the same guild. If anything, belonging to more social organizations make it more likely to meet people, who might turn out to be friends. I can't promise that it will. I can promise that narrowing one's focus to a single guild won't. > Popular opinion What difference does that make? "Popular" doesn't make it correct; it's still just an opinion. Moreover, I urge you to provide sources that it's in fact "popular." Certainly many people might hold that opinion; I don't think there's any way to determine if it's more than 50% or not. It might even be difficult to establish whether it's more than 50% of those posting in /r/guildwars2 or these forums. If anything, the opinion of those promoting "5 guilds is enough/too many" is largely that it's better to narrow the focus, because they think one should be loyal to just one group, not because they are friends with everyone in the guild. There are also some people who belong to tiny guilds (<10), but those are of course tiny because they started off as family/friends. > Now you put one person accessing 20 small guilds, does that promote the same level of relationship as accessing 1 small guild? Of course not. You make it sound as if it's either/or, which it is not. In effect, I'm already a member of ~15+ guilds. The difference is that it's mechanically easy for me to maintain relationships with members of five, and not the other 10, because I have to use resources that aren't readily available in the game. > If one divert their attentions on 20 small guilds, it just means all the guilds only got a fraction of the attention as compared to one small guild. You keep making it sound as if one needs to be _friends_ with everyone in a guild. In a guild larger than 30 or 40, no one is friends with everyone in it. In large guilds, even the GL usually has to rely on lieutenants to help keep track of everyone. > With that fraction of attention, just want kind of relationship are you creating? I would say at best acquaintanceship (not friendship). You don't get to say what sort of relationships I'm creating; you can only speak for the relationships you want and how you want to maintain them. > Again, I am not against people who are honest on their requests for having more slots. However, I am against people who use words they don't mean it. It's not up to you to decide which posts are legit opinions and which are not. Regardless, you're still the only one who wants to create false dichotomies: one can be friends with people from multiple guilds or not, one can be friends with a lot of people in the same guild or not, and one can do both, or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > @"TheGrimm.5624" said: > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > Again, I am not against people who are honest on their requests for having more slots. However, I am against people who use words they don't mean it. > > Ironically you quoted me, but I was responding to another poster who implied that if you belonged to multiple guilds you weren't forming friendships which is what I challenged. Most people will start off by joining a guild to group up with others, some for friendship, some will grow to be friends, some will just only do it for causal relationships. Each person's experiences will vary. I still challenge the fact that you can't have friends in different guilds, you can, and still challenge that not all of your friends will be friends, they won't be. So for that I am for increasing the guild limit. The initial quote was about claim being a number in a mega guild. My argument against that was what so different from joining 10 small guilds, you also end up with a mega guild number of people to interact with. The truth is, there no difference. You still gonna end up interacting huge amount of people. Breaking them down to smaller bits don't make them any different from consolidating them in one big bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > The initial quote was about claim being a number in a mega guild. My argument against that was what so different from joining 10 small guilds, you also end up with a mega guild number of people to interact with. The truth is, there no difference. You still gonna end up interacting huge amount of people. Breaking them down to smaller bits don't make them any different from consolidating them in one big bit. That's not even close to true. Unless the 10 small guilds are made up of the same people as the mega guild, of course it's different. It's like saying that joining the Ohio State University Alumni club (550k people) is the same as joining your city's clubs for tennis, poker, trivia, and GW2. There's no reason that people are going to consolidate into one guild just because you are a member of those 10 guilds. There is, however, good reason to belong to specialty guilds, when there aren't really generalist guilds that really cover all interests in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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