Raid sellers

[needbeer.1687]

> @"ugrakarma.9416" said:

> and this also discourages novices from trying do raids.

 

not just them. elitest players does it to. and almost every group i see has this.

[boolah.1325]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > Ppl complain to everything. You shouldn't get annoyed just by little things like this.. you are making your life difficult if your tolerance level is that low... just take things easy..

> >

> > Well, there are people in this world who see something that is a problem for them and try to find a solution. It's just a natural thing for them, and since they do it their whole life without really thinking about it, they become excellent problem solvers. Then there are people who just accept or tolerate things as they come to them, without really bothering too much. They are more chilled than the problem solvers.

> >

> > Best thing is when neither of these character types tell the other that they should change and do what the other type does.

>

> I don't see a drama or problem creator can become a problem solver... :) I'm an engineer and I solve a lot of problems in real life.. but this isn't problem solving. This is someone unhappy about something very minor. it is more personal issue.

>

> Dev has mentioned they have no issue with players selling raids... So do I... We can request dev to make another LFG section for seller but I don't see the need for it. Just waste of dev time. They better spend the time to make new fractal.. raid wing and etc update for us .. or new legendary skins

 

I'm no engineer but adding a tab somewhere for **all sellers** shouldn't be a difficult thing to do.

 

Also, Mr. Engineer, it's not a "looking for raid selling group". It's a "looking for group" in the raid section, ya know? People that actually want to find a group.. people that: pug, don't have statics, want to try out a raid boss, or just help a group out.

 

Also, please stop mentioning that the devs don't see a problem with it (or you don't have a problem with it LOL) That's not what this is about. I don't give two puppies either, but I do hate seeing an lfg cluttered with sellers. There's no need for it and it's straight up annoying to see. If you think that this is a minor issue then you don't pug and therefore don't use the lfg as much as I do :open_mouth:

 

Jumping puzzle sellers sell their services in general lfg, so should the raid sellers/guild recruitment. No need to clutter the raid lfg.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"boolah.1325" said:

> Jumping puzzle sellers sell their services in general lfg, so should the raid sellers/guild recruitment. No need to clutter the raid lfg.

That's because jumping puzzles fit the general lfg category. Raids fit the raid category, so sellers advertise there. Remember, that even if all sellers agreed to use some other lfg category for advertisement, most potential buyers wouldn't know that initially.

You advertise where your target group clientele is most likely to look, you don't expect them to need to look for you in other places.

 

Still, the ads that are about raid selling in general, and are not about joining a raid run right now, are likely not okay.

 

 

[Talindra.4958]

> @"boolah.1325" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > > Ppl complain to everything. You shouldn't get annoyed just by little things like this.. you are making your life difficult if your tolerance level is that low... just take things easy..

> > >

> > > Well, there are people in this world who see something that is a problem for them and try to find a solution. It's just a natural thing for them, and since they do it their whole life without really thinking about it, they become excellent problem solvers. Then there are people who just accept or tolerate things as they come to them, without really bothering too much. They are more chilled than the problem solvers.

> > >

> > > Best thing is when neither of these character types tell the other that they should change and do what the other type does.

> >

> > I don't see a drama or problem creator can become a problem solver... :) I'm an engineer and I solve a lot of problems in real life.. but this isn't problem solving. This is someone unhappy about something very minor. it is more personal issue.

> >

> > Dev has mentioned they have no issue with players selling raids... So do I... We can request dev to make another LFG section for seller but I don't see the need for it. Just waste of dev time. They better spend the time to make new fractal.. raid wing and etc update for us .. or new legendary skins

>

> I'm no engineer but adding a tab somewhere for **all sellers** shouldn't be a difficult thing to do.

>

> Also, Mr. Engineer, it's not a "looking for raid selling group". It's a "looking for group" in the raid section, ya know? People that actually want to find a group.. people that: pug, don't have statics, want to try out a raid boss, or just help a group out.

>

> Also, please stop mentioning that the devs don't see a problem with it (or you don't have a problem with it LOL) That's not what this is about. I don't give two puppies either, but I do hate seeing an lfg cluttered with sellers. There's no need for it and it's straight up annoying to see. If you think that this is a minor issue then you don't pug and therefore don't use the lfg as much as I do :open_mouth:

>

> Jumping puzzle sellers sell their services in general lfg, so should the raid sellers/guild recruitment. No need to clutter the raid lfg.

 

I'm not Mr :)

Also they advertise in Looking For More

Not LFG

Looking for more raid buyers. A perfect place to post thier ad until one of dev can spend few hours on creating a tab specially for seller and few hours testing and fix bugs.

 

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

You guys can cry all you want, Anet wont add a lfg tab for something they DO NOT SUPPORT.

Theres nothing wrong in using lfg to sell but they don't support raid or any other content selling in the game.

Unless they change their policy we will never get any tab for any type of sellers.

Why would anet add ingame features to help something they don't support?

 

 

[Talindra.4958]

Anet rep did mention it somewhere that they hv no objection to raid selling or fractal selling etc. But that doesn't mean they will help to endorse it in game if that's what u mean :p maybe there's a correct term for this ..“Unofficially” supported raid selling activities..But not something they will make it official ? :P

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

For people that don't know what they are talking about this is what Gaile Gray said:

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> In summary, the buying and selling of runs is acceptable, but ArenaNet does not officially support buyers or sellers. **Buying or selling of runs is done at your own risk.** If we investigate a transfer and establish that funds originated from fraud or RMT, we will take action against all parties involved. That action, depending on the situation, could include removal of funds, account suspension, and/or account termination.

 

So anet doesn't support raid selling, they don't have any responsibility if ppl get scammed and they wont do anything to help raid sellers or anything about raid sellers

 

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> Why would anet add ingame features to help something they don't support?

 

When it becomes disruptive to the gameplay as Anet imagines it. They did it with other things like the turret farm in Lake Doric. There was no violation of their terms going on, and they didn't "support" this, yet, it was not what Anet imagined how the area is played, and it became disruptive to other players. They took action. Now, one could argue that the bombardment is more disruptive to the gameplay than the turrets were, but I think it's a similar case. If there had been a turret group once in a while, I think they would have tolerated it. The excessive turret farming was different.

 

Now, I believe we would get an additional LFG tab if we helped making raid selling excessive. If, for some reason, everybody who raids or doesn't raid, sets up an LFG like the raid sellers, with prices in the squad message, even while afk, or maybe on a second computer (or several virtual computers) with a free account, and the ratio of raid selling LFGs and real LFGs becomes 19:1, we might get someone to work on it.

 

Maybe it's not excessive enough for Anet to take action. If only half of the LFGs are raid sellers, they might think it's not disruptive enough. If you have 40 raid selling LFGs and only 2 real LFGs, it certainly becomes disruptive. I'm not asking anyone to do this, but if you just ask for ridiculous prices or set raid times to 3am in your LFG, I'm sure you'll not actually get customers. Again, I'm not telling anyone who's bothered by raid sellers to set up raid selling LFG to get the change they want. It's just an imaginary scenario.

 

A squad message text could look like this:

 

> Selling all raid wings, all bosses, normal and cm. Price range per boss: 300 gold (Mursaat Overseer) to 800 gold (Dhuum cm). Fixed raid times: Tuesdays and Thursdays 3am CET. Please whisper for more info.

[Eramonster.2718]

Players are not encouraged to. I don't think creating a underground market helps towards that direction.

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

Well the raid sellers are in the lfg all the time because ppl buy raids from them all the time.

If no one buy raids from them they would stop posting long time ago..

 

And yes I believe one of the reason anet doesn't want to add a lfg tab for sellers is because they don't want to encourage players to buy runs

 

 

[Talindra.4958]

> @"boolah.1325" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > > Ppl complain to everything. You shouldn't get annoyed just by little things like this.. you are making your life difficult if your tolerance level is that low... just take things easy..

> > >

> > > Well, there are people in this world who see something that is a problem for them and try to find a solution. It's just a natural thing for them, and since they do it their whole life without really thinking about it, they become excellent problem solvers. Then there are people who just accept or tolerate things as they come to them, without really bothering too much. They are more chilled than the problem solvers.

> > >

> > > Best thing is when neither of these character types tell the other that they should change and do what the other type does.

> >

> > I don't see a drama or problem creator can become a problem solver... :) I'm an engineer and I solve a lot of problems in real life.. but this isn't problem solving. This is someone unhappy about something very minor. it is more personal issue.

> >

> > Dev has mentioned they have no issue with players selling raids... So do I... We can request dev to make another LFG section for seller but I don't see the need for it. Just waste of dev time. They better spend the time to make new fractal.. raid wing and etc update for us .. or new legendary skins

>

> I'm no engineer but adding a tab somewhere for **all sellers** shouldn't be a difficult thing to do.

>

> Also, Mr. Engineer, it's not a "looking for raid selling group". It's a "looking for group" in the raid section, ya know? People that actually want to find a group.. people that: pug, don't have statics, want to try out a raid boss, or just help a group out.

>

> Also, please stop mentioning that the devs don't see a problem with it (or you don't have a problem with it LOL) That's not what this is about. I don't give two puppies either, but I do hate seeing an lfg cluttered with sellers. There's no need for it and it's straight up annoying to see. If you think that this is a minor issue then you don't pug and therefore don't use the lfg as much as I do :open_mouth:

>

> Jumping puzzle sellers sell their services in general lfg, so should the raid sellers/guild recruitment. No need to clutter the raid lfg.

 

Oh btw.... I pug all my raids since day one. I been through all the hard way all the nasty treatment of pugs.. ppl that use nasty language.. and all sort of attitudes. It is bcos i hv been pugging for so long these raid sellers in LFM are insignificant to me..

I don't hv a static group due to awkward play time ... I also play with 400 average ping.. there is a lot of things I can definitely cry about but I won't .. u need to know the luxury you have in game and not take for granted.

[Kal Bhairav.6589]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > @"boolah.1325" said:

> > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > > > Ppl complain to everything. You shouldn't get annoyed just by little things like this.. you are making your life difficult if your tolerance level is that low... just take things easy..

> > > >

> > > > Well, there are people in this world who see something that is a problem for them and try to find a solution. It's just a natural thing for them, and since they do it their whole life without really thinking about it, they become excellent problem solvers. Then there are people who just accept or tolerate things as they come to them, without really bothering too much. They are more chilled than the problem solvers.

> > > >

> > > > Best thing is when neither of these character types tell the other that they should change and do what the other type does.

> > >

> > > I don't see a drama or problem creator can become a problem solver... :) I'm an engineer and I solve a lot of problems in real life.. but this isn't problem solving. This is someone unhappy about something very minor. it is more personal issue.

> > >

> > > Dev has mentioned they have no issue with players selling raids... So do I... We can request dev to make another LFG section for seller but I don't see the need for it. Just waste of dev time. They better spend the time to make new fractal.. raid wing and etc update for us .. or new legendary skins

> >

> > I'm no engineer but adding a tab somewhere for **all sellers** shouldn't be a difficult thing to do.

> >

> > Also, Mr. Engineer, it's not a "looking for raid selling group". It's a "looking for group" in the raid section, ya know? People that actually want to find a group.. people that: pug, don't have statics, want to try out a raid boss, or just help a group out.

> >

> > Also, please stop mentioning that the devs don't see a problem with it (or you don't have a problem with it LOL) That's not what this is about. I don't give two puppies either, but I do hate seeing an lfg cluttered with sellers. There's no need for it and it's straight up annoying to see. If you think that this is a minor issue then you don't pug and therefore don't use the lfg as much as I do :open_mouth:

> >

> > Jumping puzzle sellers sell their services in general lfg, so should the raid sellers/guild recruitment. No need to clutter the raid lfg.

>

> Oh btw.... I pug all my raids since day one. I been through all the hard way all the nasty treatment of pugs.. ppl that use nasty language.. and all sort of attitudes. It is bcos i hv been pugging for so long these raid sellers in LFM are insignificant to me..

> I don't hv a static group due to awkward play time ... I also play with 400 average ping.. there is a lot of things I can definitely cry about but I won't .. u need to know the luxury you have in game and not take for granted.

 

What you are saying is, since you can do raids and find no problem with the way lfg is misused(per op)with all the odds are stacking against you, nobody should have problem because you are an enginner whose work involves camping on gw2 forum and telling how to live their life and play their game.

Oh btw, I am prince of nigeria.

[Talindra.4958]

Kal et. al.

All I'm saying is why do you get annoyed by just very little things in life? Someone said the person who gets annoyed are great problem solver and my respond to that was I do not think that was correct and giving example of typical profession and my view on the topic.. and why I do not think ppl who are constantly upset with very minor thing can be a great problem solver.. as simple as just take what is it .. i stand firm with that there's nothing wrong with the LFG or LFM system in raid atm and ANET will not or can not implement raid selling officially.. there is no need to explain more to that. Plain simple English.

And I'm out now . Peace

 

PS my apology if I made anyone upset.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> You guys can cry all you want, Anet wont add a lfg tab for something they DO NOT SUPPORT.

 

It's less about supporting sellers and more about giving some relief to those who aren't interested.

 

There are all sorts of ways to set up LFG. The current implementation is bloated and convoluted. There are multiple line-items for things that aren't ever highly populated and it lacks options for things that people do a lot of, even ignoring those who sell services.

 

Is there really a reason to have one entry for each LS3 story any longer? Do the four HoT zones need an entry each? Or would both be better by changing it to a simple list: "Heart of Maguuma Meta, Heart of Maguuma Exploration Trains, Heart of Maguuma Other, Living World 3 Zones."

 

With this sort of reorganization, they could also add: a "Challenging Content" , that was separated into how people actually use LFG: "Daily Tier 4 Fractals, Daily Recommended Fractals, Other Fractal Parties, Raid LFG, Raid LFM, Raid Training, Raid Recruiting" (and "recruiting" would be a fine place for sellers to advertise, freeing up the rest for PUGs).

 

I'm sure there are a dozen other ways (probably better) to offer room for sellers without being in direct support of "selling."

 

 

[MikeL.8260]

Just out of curiocity, what are the prices? Also I don't see anything wrong with that, no one is forcing you to pay for runs, there are plenty of Guilds doing raids on a regular basis and it can certainly be motivational for veteran raiders that don't have any real reason to do runs anymore, keeps the place alive in a way.

[Eramonster.2718]

From my understanding, when I read the announcement mentioned **not encouraged to**, it literally means not giving any support, service or endorsement to it.

 

There is no need for a form of punishment to be enforced to be told it's not allowed (don't ignore the nuance). And no, last thing I need is another tab to check on incase some player misplaced/ think it's better to place their LFG.

[Talindra.4958]

> @"MikeL.8260" said:

> Just out of curiocity, what are the prices? Also I don't see anything wrong with that, no one is forcing you to pay for runs, there are plenty of Guilds doing raids on a regular basis and it can certainly be motivational for veteran raiders that don't have any real reason to do runs anymore, keeps the place alive in a way.

 

Well Mike.. if someone really couldn't do any raids due to time constraints or etc.. but wish to have a legendary armour.. the raid selling guild is able to help that player to get the collection done. Most of these raid sellers are there to help and ofc for payment too. I recently spoken to a guild that can do 2k for full precursor collection unlock.. at 2k gold price I think it's a good deal.. you get some legendary insight with this collection. To turn the precursor armour into leg armour you will need 150 legendary insight. They do long term carry for very good deal..you just hv to approach them and ask. They are professional raiders and sellers..But again like dev mentioned buy/sell at ur own risk..

Sometimes out of blue they are doing very good deals almost like a free run for some bosses.. (on rare occasion tho)

Hope this helps :)

[boolah.1325]

LFM, whatever.. it's the essentially the same thing. They are misusing the lfg because there isn't really another option (besides using the general tab, which imo, they should)

 

Raid selling is not looking for more, they are looking for someone to buy a raid. I'm pretty sure most people who look in this tab are looking to join a raid group, not buy one.

 

They could just put a tab in the raid section called "Other" this would do good for the raid sellers, people looking for someone to join their static on a day in the future and the guild recruitments.

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> Kal et. al.

> All I'm saying is why do you get annoyed by just very little things in life? Someone said the person who gets annoyed are great problem solver and my respond to that was I do not think that was correct and giving example of typical profession and my view on the topic.. and why I do not think ppl who are constantly upset with very minor thing can be a great problem solver.. as simple as just take what is it .. i stand firm with that there's nothing wrong with the LFG or LFM system in raid atm and ANET will not or can not implement raid selling officially.. there is no need to explain more to that. Plain simple English.

> And I'm out now . Peace

>

> PS my apology if I made anyone upset.

You seem to be fighting pretty hard in their favour, maybe afraid something might happen and you will have to post your raid selling in a place it won't be as noticed?! There clearly **is** a problem with the LFG because it's bloated with groups wanting to _sell raids_. The biggest problem are the AFK ones.

 

People got annoyed about the deposit all button, it was minor too, but got changed. I get annoyed by just very little things in life because they mean the most :) (to answer your question)

[Talindra.4958]

Boolah well I replied to response direct to me. Like I'm to you now.. I'm not fighting :p. If the way I reply seems like I am .. my apology .. I'm not :p ..ppl seem to think or judge one another very quickly. Btw I never sell raids if that is what in your mind :) not hardcore enough.

When I read this post and feedbacks.. I just see that.. there should be more to what ppl can manage.. if you read op again.. he is clearly frustrated and demand change. But step a foot back.. no one is hurt. Ppl are frustrated more due to not able to access raid easily. Raids are painful journey and I believe it's the main reason ppl become not as patient as they can usually.

[Faaris.8013]

I found a workaround that works fine for me. Someone here wrote that you don't see LFGs by players you blocked, so I did exactly that. There is someone trying to sell fractal runs these days, and I think automated the process of removing the LFG and putting it up again, so it shows on top of the list all the time instead of the bottom (because there's only one player in the party). Because I'm lazy, I didn't type his name, I just joined, right-clicked his name and blocked, then left the group. And sure enough, I'm not seeing his ads anymore.

[Daniel.5428]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> Raid selling is allowed by Anet.

 

He is asking for a new category in LFG, not for a permanent ban.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Daniel.5428" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > Raid selling is allowed by Anet.

>

> He is asking for a new category in LFG, not for a permanent ban.

And a LFG category for raid/content selling is more support than Anet is willing to give to this kind of activity. They don't prohibit it, but it doesn't mean they will support it in any way.

 

 

[boolah.1325]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> Boolah well I replied to response direct to me. Like I'm to you now.. I'm not fighting :p. If the way I reply seems like I am .. my apology .. I'm not :p ..ppl seem to think or judge one another very quickly. Btw I never sell raids if that is what in your mind :) not hardcore enough.

> When I read this post and feedbacks.. I just see that.. there should be more to what ppl can manage.. if you read op again.. he is clearly frustrated and demand change. But step a foot back.. no one is hurt. Ppl are frustrated more due to not able to access raid easily. Raids are painful journey and I believe it's the main reason ppl become not as patient as they can usually.

 

Now I know you're just trolling this thread... Maybe you should read it again. Also, it was to ban them from the lfg.

 

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Daniel.5428" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > Raid selling is allowed by Anet.

> >

> > He is asking for a new category in LFG, not for a permanent ban.

> And a LFG category for raid/content selling is more support than Anet is willing to give to this kind of activity. They don't prohibit it, but it doesn't mean they will support it in any way.

>

>

 

They could just add an "Other" tab and be done with it.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"boolah.1325" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > Boolah well I replied to response direct to me. Like I'm to you now.. I'm not fighting :p. If the way I reply seems like I am .. my apology .. I'm not :p ..ppl seem to think or judge one another very quickly. Btw I never sell raids if that is what in your mind :) not hardcore enough.

> > When I read this post and feedbacks.. I just see that.. there should be more to what ppl can manage.. if you read op again.. he is clearly frustrated and demand change. But step a foot back.. no one is hurt. Ppl are frustrated more due to not able to access raid easily. Raids are painful journey and I believe it's the main reason ppl become not as patient as they can usually.

>

> Now I know you're just trolling this thread... Maybe you should read it again. Also, it was to ban them from the lfg.

>

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Daniel.5428" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > Raid selling is allowed by Anet.

> > >

> > > He is asking for a new category in LFG, not for a permanent ban.

> > And a LFG category for raid/content selling is more support than Anet is willing to give to this kind of activity. They don't prohibit it, but it doesn't mean they will support it in any way.

> >

> >

>

> They could just add an "Other" tab and be done with it.

There is "achievements" LFG tab, There's a reason why people selling raid achievements don't post there.

Hint: it's because people wanting to buy raid achieves don't look there. They look in Raid LFGs.

[Talindra.4958]

> @"boolah.1325" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > Boolah well I replied to response direct to me. Like I'm to you now.. I'm not fighting :p. If the way I reply seems like I am .. my apology .. I'm not :p ..ppl seem to think or judge one another very quickly. Btw I never sell raids if that is what in your mind :) not hardcore enough.

> > When I read this post and feedbacks.. I just see that.. there should be more to what ppl can manage.. if you read op again.. he is clearly frustrated and demand change. But step a foot back.. no one is hurt. Ppl are frustrated more due to not able to access raid easily. Raids are painful journey and I believe it's the main reason ppl become not as patient as they can usually.

>

> Now I know you're just trolling this thread... Maybe you should read it again. Also, it was to ban them from the lfg.

>

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Daniel.5428" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > Raid selling is allowed by Anet.

> > >

> > > He is asking for a new category in LFG, not for a permanent ban.

> > And a LFG category for raid/content selling is more support than Anet is willing to give to this kind of activity. They don't prohibit it, but it doesn't mean they will support it in any way.

> >

> >

>

> They could just add an "Other" tab and be done with it.

 

Boolah if you think I'm trolling by all means. ANet will not ban raid seller. Read Ze Dos Cavalos post on what Gaile Gray said.