Vayne.8563 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 > @"AEFA.9035" said: > > @"Lazze.9870" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Lazze.9870" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > So much salt. Ranger, compared to at least half the professions, is in a pretty good place. I mean, power rev needed a buff. Had to have one. Scrapper needed a buff. Had to have one. I main a soulbeast and I have no problem in any content I run. Bug fixes and some pet changes for Soul Beast are fine. No one I know is kicking Soulbeasts from T4 Fractals or raids to my knowledge. > > > > > > > > Well, here is a newsflash. Asking for undertuned stuff to be worked on doesn't equal having "problem in any content". > > > > > > Logic dictates that the stuff that most needs to be changed should be the priority. Not the stuff that could be improved. No company has unlimited budget in time or money. Therefore they have to prioritize. Anet doesn't always get their priorities right but I think this time, for the most part, they did. > > > > Is condi ranger ever seen in pvp or wvw? Not really. Is power ranger considered useful in pve even after the changes last patch? No. Useable, sure (after the last patch), but pointless to bring. Has it been like this for a LONG time now? Yes. > > > > People have whined about power rev viability for a while, but condi ranger has barely been relevant in pvp since the specialization changes before HoT. > > I did some comparison with regards to renegade shortbow and ranger shortbow, its funny that ANEt increased Renegades SB damage when people were complaining about them we complained for years for SB damage as well but nothing was done look at the comparison for Shortbow damage > > **RENEGADE** > > **SCATTERSHOT** Renegade auto attack > ~~Damage.png Damage: 183 (0.5)?~~ (Shattershot: Increased damage by 30% in PvP and WvW) Damage: 237.90 (0.5 power coefficient) > **Bleeding (3s): 66 Damage** > Number of Targets: 5 > Radius: 120 > Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance) > Range: 900 > > **RANGER** > > **Crossfire** Ranger auto attack > > Damage: 147 (0.4)? > **_ Bleeding (3s): 66 Damage (IF FLANKING)_** > **Bleeding (1½s): 33 Damage** > Range: 900 > Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance) > > I mean raw damage alone we lose already, and bleeding application? Rev doesnt need to flank. Now who can give me a decent explanation from ANet why so? Is it because its a specialization so it has to deal more damage? LOL Because comparing ranger weapons to revenant weapons makes no sense if you don't factor in pets. And comparing two weapons straight up when Anet said from the get go that pets represent a significant percentage of a ranger's damage is actually a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Pin.6728 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Well this is true. Except one of our current PvE condi builds (soulbeast) nullifies pet condition damage once the pet is removed from the field. (Merging brings the pet condition damage to 0 unless this was fixed) This makes the comparison between weapons more relevant as it effectively removes the pet from the equation. You could argue our pet abilities would apply but then you'd have to factor in renegade's mechanics as well to be fair. I think though the best way to look at it would be to compare the bonus a ranger would get when merged with a deadly pet and factor that into the weapon damage. I suspect it may bring the weapons closer together then you would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandzibar.5134 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > Because comparing ranger weapons to revenant weapons makes no sense if you don't factor in pets. And comparing two weapons straight up when Anet said from the get go that pets represent a significant percentage of a ranger's damage is actually a thing. Ahh so what youre really saying is.. that Soulbeast (when merged) needs more flat dmg bonuses to make up for the loss in pet damage? Yes. I completely agree :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krispera.5087 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 > @"AEFA.9035" said: > I did some comparison with regards to renegade shortbow and ranger shortbow, its funny that ANEt increased Renegades SB damage when people were complaining about them we complained for years for SB damage as well but nothing was done look at the comparison for Shortbow damage > I mean raw damage alone we lose already, and bleeding application? Rev doesnt need to flank. Now who can give me a decent explanation from ANet why so? Is it because its a specialization so it has to deal more damage? LOL I tried to do some comparison in the old forum, but answers were mitigated. The only thing that, I guess, I can say, is that Renegade or Revenant in general doesn't have enough sources of bleeding. They have the Shortbow AA, Shortbow 2, Bleed Spirit and that's pretty much it. I do agree that their AA is better and it's also an AoE. It doesn't need much before Renegade is better at applying Bleed tho. I could also say they have better Torment application, which is the same damage in PvE and just a little less in PvP/WvW. I guess it nullifies ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEFA.9035 Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 > @"Krispera.5087" said: > > @"AEFA.9035" said: > > I did some comparison with regards to renegade shortbow and ranger shortbow, its funny that ANEt increased Renegades SB damage when people were complaining about them we complained for years for SB damage as well but nothing was done look at the comparison for Shortbow damage > > I mean raw damage alone we lose already, and bleeding application? Rev doesnt need to flank. Now who can give me a decent explanation from ANet why so? Is it because its a specialization so it has to deal more damage? LOL > > I tried to do some comparison in the old forum, but answers were mitigated. The only thing that, I guess, I can say, is that Renegade or Revenant in general doesn't have enough sources of bleeding. They have the Shortbow AA, Shortbow 2, Bleed Spirit and that's pretty much it. > > I do agree that their AA is better and it's also an AoE. It doesn't need much before Renegade is better at applying Bleed tho. I could also say they have better Torment application, which is the same damage in PvE and just a little less in PvP/WvW. I guess it nullifies ? > I think all profession should have a niche condition that they can apply. I actually like torment on revenants, necro has chill and bleeding, thieves has poison, mesmer confusion, guard burn. But what's Ranger. Right now what's happening with the game is that everyone has a lot of access to everything. I think that has to be fixed. Renegade do me is like Ranger spirit back then when rangers spirit can move and provide utility to groups. That's what Renegade is to me atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Sandzibar.5134" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > Because comparing ranger weapons to revenant weapons makes no sense if you don't factor in pets. And comparing two weapons straight up when Anet said from the get go that pets represent a significant percentage of a ranger's damage is actually a thing. > > Ahh so what youre really saying is.. that Soulbeast (when merged) needs more flat dmg bonuses to make up for the loss in pet damage? > > Yes. I completely agree :D > > Nope not what I'm saying. However just comparing any one thing without comparing ALL the things, is simply a; bad way to try to make it point, The pet is one example. Traits are another. Let's look at bleeding in ranger traits and skills like sharpening stone which adds more bleeds. The problem is, and has always been you can't isolate a single weapon and compare it to another single weapon to make a point, because that's now how devs would do it. You need to look at the big picture. The over all package. The over all package is fine. We'll see where Soul Beast stands when Snow Crows publishes some benchmarks, but I strongly suspect it'll be up there with the other "good DPS" professions once in fact people figure out how to build with the new stuff. Because people complained about the Soul Beast from day one, there was a huge thread about it, and they were simply wrong. It has always been one of the top stats. Even in the beta people complained about it, even after other people linked builds and info showing it as a top spec. So yeah showing two weapons side by side without factoring in anything else is pretty much pointless at best and misleading at worst. Waiting to see how it all shakes out is definitely the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet.1584 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 condi ranger is PvE meta, not just "useable" it's META and that was with the old stance sharing trait. it'll be useful in fights where condi is better to actually stack 2 stance sharing soulbeasts to buff the group plus a druid to provide might. Power is the only area where ranger/soulbeast needs improvements and those improvements can't effect condi weapons or they would be unbalanced. the easiest way to do this would be to tweak coefficients on sword, GS and LB. power ranger is close to meta actually so only small tweaks are needed, it's already "useable" at ~25k dps, once it's over 30k it could be considered another metabuild. All that i want for ranger, and all the classes for that matter, is to have the same type of build choices ele always has had where they can trait for heal, condi dps or power dps and still be competitive with each. That should be anets ultimate goal, not one or the other. They've got Holo and Warrior there, ranger should be next since it was supposed to be the jack of all trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arceno.8214 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Sandzibar.5134" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > Because comparing ranger weapons to revenant weapons makes no sense if you don't factor in pets. And comparing two weapons straight up when Anet said from the get go that pets represent a significant percentage of a ranger's damage is actually a thing. > > > > Ahh so what youre really saying is.. that Soulbeast (when merged) needs more flat dmg bonuses to make up for the loss in pet damage? > > > > Yes. I completely agree :D > > > > > > Nope not what I'm saying. However just comparing any one thing without comparing ALL the things, is simply a; bad way to try to make it point, The pet is one example. Traits are another. Let's look at bleeding in ranger traits and skills like sharpening stone which adds more bleeds. The problem is, and has always been you can't isolate a single weapon and compare it to another single weapon to make a point, because that's now how devs would do it. You need to look at the big picture. The over all package. The over all package is fine. > > We'll see where Soul Beast stands when Snow Crows publishes some benchmarks, but I strongly suspect it'll be up there with the other "good DPS" professions once in fact people figure out how to build with the new stuff. > > Because people complained about the Soul Beast from day one, there was a huge thread about it, and they were simply wrong. It has always been one of the top stats. Even in the beta people complained about it, even after other people linked builds and info showing it as a top spec. > > So yeah showing two weapons side by side without factoring in anything else is pretty much pointless at best and misleading at worst. Waiting to see how it all shakes out is definitely the way to go. There is already a benchmark from Snow Crows. I think he did 33.5k dps with SB + D/T. Not sure if that's the one they will put up on their page later on but video is on y'tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonzhunter.8506 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Guys, you realize that you talk about condition build without specify about the type of game. What I know till now is that in PVE condi build work fine for Ranger , is not top damage dealer but still it works, in sPVP somehow or in some situations it works fine too (maybe I am wrong, I didn't try it in sPVP, I played only power build ) but definitely in WvW condi build didn't work at all. So we must ask for fix condi build for WvW (like other classes have both condi and power build playable) and make it better for PVE and sPVP. It's a little bit frustrating that we have so many condi pets, enough condi weapons, but we can't use it in WvW, where is almost like an open world PVP, and in my opinion the area who made GW2 different . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEFA.9035 Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Arceno.8214" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Sandzibar.5134" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > Because comparing ranger weapons to revenant weapons makes no sense if you don't factor in pets. And comparing two weapons straight up when Anet said from the get go that pets represent a significant percentage of a ranger's damage is actually a thing. > > > > > > Ahh so what youre really saying is.. that Soulbeast (when merged) needs more flat dmg bonuses to make up for the loss in pet damage? > > > > > > Yes. I completely agree :D > > > > > > > > > > Nope not what I'm saying. However just comparing any one thing without comparing ALL the things, is simply a; bad way to try to make it point, The pet is one example. Traits are another. Let's look at bleeding in ranger traits and skills like sharpening stone which adds more bleeds. The problem is, and has always been you can't isolate a single weapon and compare it to another single weapon to make a point, because that's now how devs would do it. You need to look at the big picture. The over all package. The over all package is fine. > > > > We'll see where Soul Beast stands when Snow Crows publishes some benchmarks, but I strongly suspect it'll be up there with the other "good DPS" professions once in fact people figure out how to build with the new stuff. > > > > Because people complained about the Soul Beast from day one, there was a huge thread about it, and they were simply wrong. It has always been one of the top stats. Even in the beta people complained about it, even after other people linked builds and info showing it as a top spec. > > > > So yeah showing two weapons side by side without factoring in anything else is pretty much pointless at best and misleading at worst. Waiting to see how it all shakes out is definitely the way to go. > > There is already a benchmark from Snow Crows. I think he did 33.5k dps with SB + D/T. Not sure if that's the one they will put up on their page later on but video is on y'tube. those benchmarks are nice and all it shows the **peak** damage of ranger in condi, but honestly you're targeting a mindless robot which i guess is good for PVE, so players would be aware on who to bring in raids, but in PVP? show me some vids of actual 1v1 and i'll stop comparing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arceno.8214 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Ah for some reason i thought you were talking about PVE, nvm then sry :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet.1584 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said: > Guys, you realize that you talk about condition build without specify about the type of game. What I know till now is that in PVE condi build work fine for Ranger , is not top damage dealer but still it works, in sPVP somehow or in some situations it works fine too (maybe I am wrong, I didn't try it in sPVP, I played only power build ) but definitely in WvW condi build didn't work at all. > So we must ask for fix condi build for WvW (like other classes have both condi and power build playable) and make it better for PVE and sPVP. It's a little bit frustrating that we have so many condi pets, enough condi weapons, but we can't use it in WvW, where is almost like an open world PVP, and in my opinion the area who made GW2 different . i mentioned PvE in my comment but at present we won't ever be high tier in wvw or pvp as a condi class. If you look at any condi class that works in PvP or Wvw they can apply multiple conditions and they can do so at range. For ranger they would either need to completely redesign weapons or wait until the next expac. personally i think our next elite will be a scepter spellcaster that applies cc and conditions. roaming could be done though as either condi druid or condi core ranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProtoMarcus.7649 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 * **Griffon Stance** no longer grants 50 endurance on cast - it is reverted to 25 * **Juvenile Iboga** will not get in range for its F2 skill, **Fang Grapple** - using that skill off range will show the red text 'Out of range' but the iboga will still cast it in the direction it is facing, it won't rush in range of the enemy before using it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"AEFA.9035" said: > > @"Arceno.8214" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > @"Sandzibar.5134" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > Because comparing ranger weapons to revenant weapons makes no sense if you don't factor in pets. And comparing two weapons straight up when Anet said from the get go that pets represent a significant percentage of a ranger's damage is actually a thing. > > > > > > > > Ahh so what youre really saying is.. that Soulbeast (when merged) needs more flat dmg bonuses to make up for the loss in pet damage? > > > > > > > > Yes. I completely agree :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope not what I'm saying. However just comparing any one thing without comparing ALL the things, is simply a; bad way to try to make it point, The pet is one example. Traits are another. Let's look at bleeding in ranger traits and skills like sharpening stone which adds more bleeds. The problem is, and has always been you can't isolate a single weapon and compare it to another single weapon to make a point, because that's now how devs would do it. You need to look at the big picture. The over all package. The over all package is fine. > > > > > > We'll see where Soul Beast stands when Snow Crows publishes some benchmarks, but I strongly suspect it'll be up there with the other "good DPS" professions once in fact people figure out how to build with the new stuff. > > > > > > Because people complained about the Soul Beast from day one, there was a huge thread about it, and they were simply wrong. It has always been one of the top stats. Even in the beta people complained about it, even after other people linked builds and info showing it as a top spec. > > > > > > So yeah showing two weapons side by side without factoring in anything else is pretty much pointless at best and misleading at worst. Waiting to see how it all shakes out is definitely the way to go. > > > > There is already a benchmark from Snow Crows. I think he did 33.5k dps with SB + D/T. Not sure if that's the one they will put up on their page later on but video is on y'tube. > > those benchmarks are nice and all it shows the **peak** damage of ranger in condi, but honestly you're targeting a mindless robot which i guess is good for PVE, so players would be aware on who to bring in raids, but in PVP? show me some vids of actual 1v1 and i'll stop comparing. lol wtf? You were comparing the sbow of ranger to the Rev for spvp reasons? Dafk is wrong with you!? Do you run condi in spvp? Do you think a few small changes to sbow would make condi in spvp viable? ew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEFA.9035 Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > @"AEFA.9035" said: > > > @"Arceno.8214" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Sandzibar.5134" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Because comparing ranger weapons to revenant weapons makes no sense if you don't factor in pets. And comparing two weapons straight up when Anet said from the get go that pets represent a significant percentage of a ranger's damage is actually a thing. > > > > > > > > > > Ahh so what youre really saying is.. that Soulbeast (when merged) needs more flat dmg bonuses to make up for the loss in pet damage? > > > > > > > > > > Yes. I completely agree :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope not what I'm saying. However just comparing any one thing without comparing ALL the things, is simply a; bad way to try to make it point, The pet is one example. Traits are another. Let's look at bleeding in ranger traits and skills like sharpening stone which adds more bleeds. The problem is, and has always been you can't isolate a single weapon and compare it to another single weapon to make a point, because that's now how devs would do it. You need to look at the big picture. The over all package. The over all package is fine. > > > > > > > > We'll see where Soul Beast stands when Snow Crows publishes some benchmarks, but I strongly suspect it'll be up there with the other "good DPS" professions once in fact people figure out how to build with the new stuff. > > > > > > > > Because people complained about the Soul Beast from day one, there was a huge thread about it, and they were simply wrong. It has always been one of the top stats. Even in the beta people complained about it, even after other people linked builds and info showing it as a top spec. > > > > > > > > So yeah showing two weapons side by side without factoring in anything else is pretty much pointless at best and misleading at worst. Waiting to see how it all shakes out is definitely the way to go. > > > > > > There is already a benchmark from Snow Crows. I think he did 33.5k dps with SB + D/T. Not sure if that's the one they will put up on their page later on but video is on y'tube. > > > > those benchmarks are nice and all it shows the **peak** damage of ranger in condi, but honestly you're targeting a mindless robot which i guess is good for PVE, so players would be aware on who to bring in raids, but in PVP? show me some vids of actual 1v1 and i'll stop comparing. > > lol kitten? You were comparing the sbow of ranger to the Rev for spvp reasons? > > Dafk is wrong with you!? > > Do you run condi in spvp? > > Do you think a few small changes to sbow would make condi in spvp viable? > ew. No I don't run condi. That's why Im asking for a vid civilize tongue gentleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Za Shaloc.3908 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 +1 for the Owl love. Finally, Swoop is fixed (although it's still a little clunky in its animation). Kiting for days in WvW, and its squishiness isn't as much of a liability since merging revives it. I love having the on-demand swiftness too, but it'd be cool if it did just a bit more, like granting 2s of quickness or so as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderzShadow.2506 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"AEFA.9035" said: > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > > @"AEFA.9035" said: > > > > @"Arceno.8214" said: > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > @"Sandzibar.5134" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because comparing ranger weapons to revenant weapons makes no sense if you don't factor in pets. And comparing two weapons straight up when Anet said from the get go that pets represent a significant percentage of a ranger's damage is actually a thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ahh so what youre really saying is.. that Soulbeast (when merged) needs more flat dmg bonuses to make up for the loss in pet damage? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes. I completely agree :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope not what I'm saying. However just comparing any one thing without comparing ALL the things, is simply a; bad way to try to make it point, The pet is one example. Traits are another. Let's look at bleeding in ranger traits and skills like sharpening stone which adds more bleeds. The problem is, and has always been you can't isolate a single weapon and compare it to another single weapon to make a point, because that's now how devs would do it. You need to look at the big picture. The over all package. The over all package is fine. > > > > > > > > > > We'll see where Soul Beast stands when Snow Crows publishes some benchmarks, but I strongly suspect it'll be up there with the other "good DPS" professions once in fact people figure out how to build with the new stuff. > > > > > > > > > > Because people complained about the Soul Beast from day one, there was a huge thread about it, and they were simply wrong. It has always been one of the top stats. Even in the beta people complained about it, even after other people linked builds and info showing it as a top spec. > > > > > > > > > > So yeah showing two weapons side by side without factoring in anything else is pretty much pointless at best and misleading at worst. Waiting to see how it all shakes out is definitely the way to go. > > > > > > > > There is already a benchmark from Snow Crows. I think he did 33.5k dps with SB + D/T. Not sure if that's the one they will put up on their page later on but video is on y'tube. > > > > > > those benchmarks are nice and all it shows the **peak** damage of ranger in condi, but honestly you're targeting a mindless robot which i guess is good for PVE, so players would be aware on who to bring in raids, but in PVP? show me some vids of actual 1v1 and i'll stop comparing. > > > > lol kitten? You were comparing the sbow of ranger to the Rev for spvp reasons? > > > > Dafk is wrong with you!? > > > > Do you run condi in spvp? > > > > Do you think a few small changes to sbow would make condi in spvp viable? > > ew. > > No I don't run condi. That's why Im asking for a vid civilize tongue gentleman. Sorry buddy, was flabbergasted that his was around pvp when condi pvp on a ranger is so far away from reality. Second thing, I truly and honestly don't understand your argument for comparing short bow of Ranger and Revenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenash.1245 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 > @"ProtoMarcus.7649" said: > * **Griffon Stance** no longer grants 50 endurance on cast - it is reverted to 25 > * **Juvenile Iboga** will not get in range for its F2 skill, **Fang Grapple** - using that skill off range will show the red text 'Out of range' but the iboga will still cast it in the direction it is facing, it won't rush in range of the enemy before using it Well, there goes my hope for the Griffon stance change since it seems it was only a bug. Even if I'll never use it for the builds I run, I really am curious where ArenaNet wants this skill to be used. Between PvE, PvP, and WvW I just don't see the point of this new skill compared to what else ranger can bring to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niconori.7235 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 This is my opinion on the PVE side. Power Ranger is extremely low in dps and should definitely get a buff. -Call Lightning (soulbeast) : Cooldown should be reduced from 15s >10s for a smoother rotation, 15s just feels so awkward. Also should receive a slight overall damage buff either per hit or more strikes over same/longer duration. -Barrage : Should receive an overall damage buff via more strikes over same or longer duration. -Whirling Defense : For the love of god PLEASE allow us to move while using this skill. You may slap on a movement speed decrease while channeling i don'f care but repositioning is too important now. I'll post others next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonzhunter.8506 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 > @"niconori.7235" said: > This is my opinion on the PVE side. Power Ranger is extremely low in dps and should definitely get a buff. > -Call Lightning (soulbeast) : Cooldown should be reduced from 15s >10s for a smoother rotation, 15s just feels so awkward. Also should receive a slight overall damage buff either per hit or more strikes over same/longer duration. > -Barrage : Should receive an overall damage buff via more strikes over same or longer duration. > -Whirling Defense : For the love of god PLEASE allow us to move while using this skill. You may slap on a movement speed decrease while channeling i don'f care but repositioning is too important now. > > I'll post others next time. Definitely agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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